Oni Central Forum

A forum for the Oni community

You are not logged in.

#26 2/2/07 18:20

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

Just because I started to encourage pluralism doesn't mean I've become vulnerable to "nagging". So don't bother nagging for the sake of it smile

If Mukade sweared allegiance to the Syndicate (or Network) before Muro came around, then technically he didn't swear allegiance to Muro and the Strikers.
(BTW, do you think Muro and his men still referred to themselves as the Syndicate?) (If not, then Mukade is not tied by anything)

That aside, Mukade's clan is actually quite popular with fan fiction writers. More or less conventional ("human-sized") variations on real-life Ninja (erm, more precisely on the rather idealized cultural image thereof: poetry, again smile ).
Why would Muro upgrade the leader of some old clan that's too weak to face the WCG of its own?
Wouldn't it become "strong enough" again, so that it no longer needs Muro? A delicate balance...
(writing these is a chore for me as well: especially if you only show the pro and leave the contra to me...)
(just take a few extra minutes to imagine what the most obvious reply would be, and write it yourself...)

As we know from Oni, Muro is sadistic. So, not old school, unless the old school is a lot older than is usually believed smile

Then again, the Yagu Ninja doctrine (the one in Kill Bill, at least) didn't strike me as a miracle of virtue, either:

Revenge is never a straight line. It's a forest. And like [in] a forest it's easy to lose your way... to get lost... to forget where you came in.
To serve as a compass, a combat philosophy must be adopted that can be found in the secret doctrine of the Yagu Ninja.
And now my yellow-haired warrior, repeat after me :
When engaged in combat, the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern...
...This is the first and cardinal rule of combat...
...Suppress all human emotion and compassion...
...Kill whoever stands in thy way, even if that be Lord God, or Buddha himself...
This truth lies at the heart of the art of combat. Once it is mastered... Thou shall fear no one... Though the devil himself may bar thy way...

The bit about the "forest" looks promising, but as for the "compass"... Where's the nobility? Oh well, that's oriental wisdom for me. And poetry smile

Mukade = Muro's teacher is OK, except that, as you know from Kill Bill and elsewhere: mischievous, gratuitously sadistic apprentices usually turn against their wise and honorable masters. Thus we're down to the "rival or peer" alternative again.
As for Muro's teacher becoming Muro's subordinate... Er.

Harnessing the Chrysalis is almost certainly what Muro did in Barabas's case (Barabas does look like a "human-sized" Imago). More HERE.
Same is possible for the Ninja, and Mukade (we already mentioned that earlier here). But increased control means lessened efficiency.
Mukade would have ended up inferior to Muro. Now if you ask me, Mukade rocks more than Muro by a mile (in very many ways).

"This is the future"... Muro's plans (as far as we can tell) was to only give the Chrysalis to those who'd "join him".
I'm pretty sure Muro would have been quite happy with anarchy, which is not the same as rivalry.
If everyone who's "with him" is as super as him, the notion of leadership fades away, but what other choice is there?
If he goes around implanting "dud" Chrysalises in the hope to maintain his authority, they'll resent him and set him up.
Half-gods who are unhappy with a god would team up on him, in large numbers. Olympus gets along slightly better.
(the differences between Zeus and the other gods are anectodical, except for the fact that "he was there first"; same as Muro)
(BTW, I always meant to put some Greek mythology in parallel with Oni; titans, gods, heroes, all that...)

Poetry: In a Daodan society (a fortiori in a society of Imagoes), the sweet taste of power over people fades away.

Pluralism: I think I'll have to put such disclaimers systematically (sigh).
If you don't identify with the above, think of it as an (elaborate) misconception. Or poetry smile

Re:Pluralism: If I were you, I'd fall back onto your initial idea of subdermal transponders.
Every Daodan "made" by Muro would get a chip (officially to help monitor the integration etc)...
Actually, it would take away some of their free will, or generate "infinite gratitude to Muro". Or something.
You could make other designs that would enable Muro to keep the Daodan in his grasp and beyond rebellion.
Telepathic control, for instance (which is like a transponder, except there isn't any smile ).

You don't believe in telepathy, and put the Mai-Mukade connection on the account of hallucinations.
(Thus you're suggesting Hardy's canon doesn't have to be taken literally, which is good wink )
(although is there really such a long way from pheromones to telepathy?)

Anyway, what about telekinesis? Could Mutant Muro's transformation have been a massive hallucination of Mai's?
(that comment actually came up when posting on the other thread, but here it fits in better)
(which is why I can't see much of a point for multiple "musing" threads: it's all connected...)
So, Muro's whole transformation (and most of the fight itself) would happen only in Mai's head. Because she killed Griffin.
Funny how killing Mukade would have made you "sober", and killing Griffin would get you "high" again, eh?

Hm, that's a nice idea for Oni ni Kanabô: to make the Mutant Muro fight more "unreal" or "drunk", à la Beyond Good and Evil (blurred vision, inverted controls...)
Seen Batman Begins? Fear Flowers. Here it wouldn't be exactly fear, but the dramatic alteration of reality would be the same.

Last edited by geyser (5/2/07 10:59)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#27 3/2/07 9:52

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

"nagging": yes I was just joking.


1)    background synthesis
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Yagu doctrine might be correct but I've a bad feeling with "holly-wood" and I found no other sources to compare with. Well, so are we talking about different ninja with different rules? This discussion makes me slowly crazy. Here it goes (solved).^^

p02: "Hey brother you can't be sure that Mukade didn't belong to those freaks."
p01: "Point was when events took place. Today it's clear he is corrupted and evil. So it's nevertheless a consensus with geyser."
p02: "Ehm .. great. And what's about the point Mukade swore to Pre-Muro-Syndicate?"
p01: "Again: Before Muro came Makade looked like a trustful servant. But he just wanted to free his land."
p02: "Damn - how have Muro could trust him?!"
p01: "First, they fight for their values. But if other masters satisfy better they've no problem changing the side. (Who could be stronger than Muro?)
     Second, like geyser said: they were too weak alone, no danger. And why not picking up some willing puppets which Syndicate can experiment with?
     In the end (not less bloodlust caused by) DC let Mukade became something to Muro's taste .. and even a sardistic teacher."
p02: "Be honest: that's a thin line!"
p01: "Yes^^"

One more "Pro":    Is it good explaining (gameplay caused) ninja by poetry?
        .. Ehm, forgot what I said. (Question could also be: "(gameplay caused ninja by human-sized stuff?")
        (We are actual deeper than original plot.^^)

One more Con:    Mukade could kill Muro in lack of satisfaction, vice versa in lack of "trust".
        If there was real trust then in "poetries theories" only. Geez, sounds like a p03...



2)    Imago "society"
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Muro's plans (as far as we can tell) was to only give the Chrysalis to those who'd "join him".

It would be chaos giving half earth a DC.
Are we going to made billions of "boss battles" for Mai? How she could resist against next level war?
In this case I'm worried about a story-deep sequel. Will be story's moral "fight although all are against you"?

Just to remind where "join him" comes from.

I get it: he plans to spill enough poison into the air to kill anyone who won't sell their soul to him for a Chrysalis.

Con: Wasn't it Konoko's words/thought? .. Could be also an illusion like rooftops monologues and seeing Muro's Imago transformation.
Con of con (-> Pro): This aspect doesn’t fit when she had not killed Griffin and got back her new old nature.

How we can rescue this situation? If you're right she lost her mind in bloodlust already as she met Mukade.
I think that's your "finish" pro.

Edit:
something I forgot - proof of my mind crash^^
Muro is dead. Who else will distribute DCs now? (If they don't do probable 90% of mankind will die.) They must.
What did Konoko say? "The Chrysalis will change us all."

Last edited by paradox-01 (3/2/07 15:05)

Offline

#28 3/2/07 11:41

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

Geyser said:
Hm, that's a nice idea for Oni ni Kanabô: to make the Mutant Muro fight more "unreal" or "drunk", à la Beyond Good and Evil (blurred vision, inverted controls...)
Seen Batman Begins? Fear Flowers. Here it wouldn't be exactly fear, but the dramatic alteration of reality would be the same.

Do you mean something like THIS ( play last savepoint of compound and be sure you have did_kill_griffen=1 ; serious warning: don't play it too long, you will feel dizzy and sick and you will have a headache)???


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

Offline

#29 3/2/07 14:01

stripeytiger
Member
Registered: 25/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

I looked at the ASFO2 thread, particularly the part about what is likely to happen after the events in Oni and Mai's decision to blow up several processors.  I noticed how some people in essence said that Mai was so stupid.  Personally I think what she did was totally in character.  I mean this in terms of her flaws. 

1.  She tends to be brainy to the point of arrogance.  She thought her idea was so clever that she didn't even think over the flaws in her plan.

2.  She is a woman of action, which means that she'll do something and won't consider the consequences.

3.  She is very single-minded, since she was determined to wreck Muro's plans and didn't think about other people.

4.  As Hasegawa said, "We were young, and thought we were indestructable."  You could easily apply this to Mai, and she probably thought that everyone worldwide was indestructable.

Now, if I was in her shoes, what I would probably have done was take out the Com-Guy at the console, use it to abort the process, and then go up there to face Muro and take him down.  I mean, there would still be the problem of the processors being in danger, but hey, if Muro was taken down, then there would be plenty of time to disarm the sub-stations.

Although I'm wondering...what was Mai talking about when she said sub-stations?  I mean, I never saw anything that looked like a sub-station.  Then again, the information at that point was extremely vague.

Personally, I thought it was interesting that Muro's plans were called Project Sturmandderung (I'm not sure if that's how it's spelled, though).  It was interesting, because the name refers to Sturm and Drang.  What's Sturm and Drang?  I think the project name had a spelling error in it, on a side note.

Offline

#30 3/2/07 14:24

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

@stripeytiger:
You're completely right about Mai's biggest decision and biggest mistake. What she did was very much like the expression of her own true nature.
"Hey, Muro wants to revert the ACCs so they pollute air. Ha! I'll just blow the ACCs up instead: no (reversed) ACCs, no pollution!"
"Ok, so Muro has an evil plan... What can I do? Can I blow everything up? I can. Blam!"
"Everyone will get a Chrysalis and everything will be fine. Oops, why is my nose growing?"
No matter what you call it ("stupid", "arrogant", "delusional", "cocky", whatever), it is a bit annoying for me to identify with that.
One of the advantages of considering the Daodan as a "mind messer-upper" is that you can blame all that big-time stupidity on the Daodan.
More precisely, on the fact that the Daodan is invading/upgrading Mai's very brain towards the end of Oni.
So, once that is over (whatever that means), I can hope for Mai to be, if not wise and sensible, at least a little less of a mindless bitch.
That was one of the basic idea behind my "Hybrid Theory"... to redeem some of the more superficial aspects of Oni.

The "too many stations" (we had them covered on ASFO2, too) are probably THOSE HERE.
"15 group control stations on-line" around the world, coordinating the effect between "417 regional atmospheric processors on-line".

For the record, what you said about STURMANDERUNG is related to the super-secure password for protected folders on oni2.net cool
"Sturm und Drang" is nice (first suggested by Loser there). "Sturmanderung" (the actual word) is a case of All Your Base,
because even if you throw in the Umlaut (Sturmänderung), it doesn't sound like sensible German to a German.

@Loser: You can force did_kill_griffen to whatever you like. Or rather, you can bypass checking on its value altogether.
Trying your script some time soon. EDIT: Tried it. Pulsating fog would be an idea, yeah. More (and more random) stuff, too. Nice job.

@paradox-01: I'm very happy with the way we seem to be getting along. "Thin line", "consensus", "pro/con", all that.
As for the depth we're adding to Oni's story, how can that be a bad thing? As long as we don't kill each other, "added value" is good... smile
I especially liked the piece of dialogue: if you remove the references to "geyser" (small G, please smile ),
it will be very close to characters trying to find out the "truth" about Muro, Mukade and all that...
Whatever they will settle on eventually (a consensus or a disagreement or something else), that's the kind of pluralism/complexity I favor.

Poetry... nothing wrong with poetry. Abstract art. True "anime" is art, and in the case of Oni, like in true anime,
technical (precise/dogmatic) dialogues could be interwoven with chatter and musing, drunken night kitchen talk...
And music, with or without lyrics. See GITS:SAC. "My" ASFO2 is punctuated with song quotes, and it's OK.
What's wrong to have a song such as Paralyzed playing while Mai wanders on her own on an empty Rooftop?

Konoko's "Mankind as we knew it is doomed. The Chrysalis will change us all. Let's hope is for the better." is naive.
How can one hope to avoid Armaggeddon if one starts handing out Imago kits to every kid on the street? What then? Eugenism?
Actually, this is bound for the other thread (logical schemes for Oni's aftermath). Basically, the popular idea seems to be that no one gets a Chrysalis.
No man in his own mind would want one. Even not a Syndicate freak (Muro had one, sure. Look all the good it has done him).
I'm not sure it will be regulated (because the world is a bit messy with those 90% who are busy dying...) but it might.
As soon as there's some form of organized response (i.e., assuming there's an entity strong enough to keep things under control).

As for Muro's plan (we still haven't come to why he thought it was "everything our father dreamed of doing"), it was he who said:

Join me or die like all the others, choking on dead air and foul water.

As weird as it may seem, I sense altruism in that tirade of his.
STURMANDERUNG is a gift to the world. A madman's gift, but a gift nonetheless (funny how "Gift" means "poison" in German, eh?)
More HERE.

Last edited by geyser (5/2/07 16:09)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#31 3/2/07 15:16

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

comment to Loser's script:
I needed two runs and same number of hypos staying alive. In point of scene it was a great show of your reaction, creativity and scripting skills. smile

notes for geyser:
- please check your first two links..
- "Sturmanderung" -> "Sturm and Drang": I read something of interest in german wikipedia (back translated): "emotio instead of ratio marks its lifestyle", quite funny (like the gift thing), it's fitting!^^
- "everything our father dreamed of doing". Come on, he turned his father's words in meaning.. Hasegawa wanted mankind's apadtion to environment (a very opimistic picture for itself) and Muro wanted a adaption to environment (as a madman's imagination .. slaves by their emotion - bloodlust.. he the new god .. blood sport every day - a dream of every monster..) .. oh man I'm tired, I should get some sleep

Last edited by paradox-01 (3/2/07 15:38)

Offline

#32 6/2/07 7:32

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

Translation mistakes or more?

    1)    When Mai reach the big transmitter dish (or is it a little atmospheric processor?) Muro say "our father".
    In English version it's not important whether you killed Griffin or not.
    In German vision: if don't kill griffin Muro talk about "your father".
    Okay could be a mistake in subtitle. BUT even in his voice you can hear "your father".

    2)    There is also a difference in outro.
    "When I blew the processors I bought us some time, but at a horrible cost."

    In German version Mai doesn't say that it is her fault.
    "Die Sprengung der Prozessoren hat uns ein bisschen Zeit gebracht, aber zu einem schrecklichen Preis."

My question is whether you guys had similar experiences or not. (I mean in Russian, French, Portuguese and other version.)
Please help me out.

Last edited by paradox-01 (6/2/07 7:33)

Offline

#33 6/2/07 10:22

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

Oni Galore is well fit for documenting such stuff, incrementally and permanently.
I've invited people with non-English versions to point out discrepancies HERE and in sub/talk/pages.

Not that they make plotwise sense: just so that we know who's got used to seeing/hearing what, and what we might need to stress/disambiguate when quoting the "canonical" English material smile

The only "overdone" translation I know was brought up by Guido on ASFO2: it had to do with the terminal about Griffin at the Regional State Building.
I never got around to putting the Italian version in parallel with the English quotes (actually, Guido never showed us the "original" Italian text).
But in the light of those two new "inaccuracies" you mention, it looks like something we could/should do. Just help yourself to the wiki pages.

P.S. I don't regard (2) as "overdone". That it's Mai who made the ACCs go "Blam!" is stated elsewhere, so technically it's just usual free translation.
(specifically, there's Mai's "clever thought" as she enters the STURMANDERUNG silo, and her input at the main STURMANDERUNG console)
("hat uns ein bisschen Zeit gebracht" actually hints at the fact that the initiative was hers, and that she still thinks it was good thinking)

Last edited by geyser (6/2/07 10:29)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#34 6/2/07 15:22

stripeytiger
Member
Registered: 25/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

I was wondering...how consistent do you think the storyline information in the manual was to the storyline in the game?  For instance, it effectively says that the WCG is a dictatorship and that it knows where you are.  However, judging from what's been said so far, the storyline in the game doesn't seem to follow what was said in the manual.  As a matter of fact, the manual says a lot of details that seems to be an attempt to explain what's going on, but a lot of the details never appear or get discussed in the game.  Interesting, isn't it?  smile

Offline

#35 7/2/07 4:48

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

I'd say the MANUAL has to be taken with a few grains of salt.
It's been slapped up at the last moment, and it's very close to sucking.
Whenever there's an unresolvable conflict with ingame, ingame rules.
That's the way it's been working for me, at least.

Last edited by geyser (14/7/07 5:52)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#36 12/2/07 18:38

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

On a short note, about Mutant Muro being an "unreal fight", taking place essentially in Mai's head.
It's somewhat related to the "original" concept of MURO-SENSEI from ASFO2. "Muro's poetry", too smile

Last edited by geyser (12/2/07 18:54)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#37 30/6/07 4:00

Hideoclone_890
Member
From: Metro Manila, Philippines
Registered: 22/6/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

what does this line mean? ''you really dont know''
a line from muro, does this mean he knows tha Konoko
is her sister from the very start?:o;)


Wakokoko! (-_-)

Offline

#38 30/6/07 4:06

Hideoclone_890
Member
From: Metro Manila, Philippines
Registered: 22/6/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

sorry for the lost " T " roll


Wakokoko! (-_-)

Offline

#39 30/6/07 6:41

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

Hi Hideoclone, if what to change your post you can edit it smile

Ok, what's the strange thing here?

Chapter 11 : DREAM DIVER
Konoko: Jamie Hasegawa. Maiden Name Jamie Kerr. Kerr's sister. Shinatama was right. Kerr worked with my father, but on what?
Muro: You really don't know?
---
Chapter 8 : AN INNOCENT LIFE:
Shinatama: I am an SLD, an android programmed with your brain engrams. I have seen everything you have seen, felt everything you have felt. They used me to monitor the growth of the Chrysalis inside you...

Well, Shinatama told her about the Chrysalis but not what it is.
How can Muro know this?

But you refer to an other thing: "does this mean he knows that Konoko is his sister from the very start?"
A new context? smile

Muro command Barabas to kidnap Shinatama because he want to know more about this 'special agent'.

But he also said: "No more time for question little girl." (No word about "little sister", hm..)

On the other hand: why did Muro know about her when Mukade didn't get away with the DVD.

One interpretation is that Mukade aren't under Muro's command. geyser: "It's her wish again."

At least Muro could know that he isn't alone ... (newspaper article (in high quality)) "GRAD STUDENT DIES : MURDER OR MERCY : "Jamie Kerr Hasegawa, environmental activist, top grad student, mother of two".

However.. There isn't 'the' answer. Believe what you like to believe, like Konoko. wink

Last edited by paradox-01 (30/6/07 15:47)

Offline

#40 30/6/07 18:07

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

@ Hideoclone: Nice to see someone else who cares about perfect spelling smile

"You really don't know?" refers to what Mai was thinking to herself the moment before, which has nothing to do with Muro being Mai's brother, at least not directly.
"You" is a one-size-fits-all address in English, so Muro is not being overly familiar with Mai; then again if he is, it might be contempt for a rival, not "real" familiarity.

Like paradox says, the creepy thing about Muro is this: Mai tries to recollect what Shinatama told her, and to link that to what she just read in her father's diary.
Shinatama mentioned Hasegawa out of connection with the Chrysalis (or at least Mai wasn't able to make the connection, because of how she kept interrupting). smile
So in the dream sequence, Mai wonders about what her father's big project was, and has no idea. Muro's sarcasm somehow makes it sound like he knows better.
This suggests that Muro knows a lot about Mai and her father. Looking back after playing through Oni, it seems likely Muro indeed knew "everything" all along.

Another question is this: if the dream happens entirely inside Mai's head, then it can only be based on her own memories and impressions.
So if Mai's inner Muro sounds like he's Mai's brother, or at least someone familiar with Mai's past, it's an idea of Mai's own subconscious.
This could be a consequence of her hate for Muro, and of what he said to her when they met at the Airport. He sounded creepy already.

I'm impressed. Your potential is almost as great as mine. Unfortunately that means you could pose a threat to me. I can't allow that.

The "potential" in the first sentences could be anything (e.g., physical strength or martial arts skills): just a usual big bad boss taunting a rival...
But as Mai realizes she's not normal, these sentences show in a different light: she's not normal, so the rivalry mentioned by Muro is special, too.
And it also means that Muro may have known "everything" about Mai all along. Muro's appearance in Mai's dream explores that possibility.
(that's what dreams do: they "explore possibilities", sometimes very radical ones, sometimes "random", but often with some sort of "seed"...)

paradox's thoughts raise interesting issues about Oni's storyline. I won't comment on them too much right now. But in any case I'd make a difference between the real-life Muro and the Muro in Mai's dream. That they're not one and the same is important: one is Mai's impression of the other.
Muro doesn't call Mai "sister" because she's not totally ready to believe that, but the idea is making its way: "little girl" is more or less exactly how Muro would tease Mai if he was her brother. Again, it's the more or less radical exploration or possibilities typically encountered in dreams.

Since the Muro in Mai's dream isn't real, that he somehow "knew where to find her" is not an issue. Same for his connection to Mukade: it's irrelevant here. This scene is just about Mai being haunted by Muro.

As for how Muro refers to Mai when talking to his men, it has two purposes: 1) it avoids giving away key elements to the player; 2) it helps Muro maintain his authority.
It's not clear if all of Muro's men know about "the other Prime Symbiote", but it helps Muro's ego and credibility if he doesn't emphasize the fact that she's a possible rival.

And another little followup:

Ok, what's the strange thing here?

The strange thing is that in the original Oni, Shinatama never tells Mai anything about Kerr smile  "Shinatama was right. Kerr worked with my father, but on what?" actually refers to the following tirade, removed from the Chapter 8 cutscene:

Konoko, I can't delay the self destruct command for long. Get out of here while you can. Doctor Kerr was your father's partner. He has been helping Griffin. He knows everything. Find him. Ask him.

Last edited by geyser (7/7/07 10:28)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#41 6/7/07 23:04

Hideoclone_890
Member
From: Metro Manila, Philippines
Registered: 22/6/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

Thank you very much..! big_smile
at least i know what is the meaning of the lines, thanks for the help!
Now ican understand oni's story deeper. wink


Wakokoko! (-_-)

Offline

#42 14/7/07 4:52

Hideoclone_890
Member
From: Metro Manila, Philippines
Registered: 22/6/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

One Question again PLs. smile.. Mukade is using some kind of gun,
w/c is hard to find at the weapons locker, the name of that gun is not mentioned in the game,
what's the name of it?? smilebig_smile


Wakokoko! (-_-)

Offline

#43 14/7/07 5:44

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

It has no official name wink

In script 'code' it is named as "w10_sni" - it might stand for "super ninja" because it's a 'boss weapon' like Barabas' Wave Motion Cannon  (w11_ba1). Other names are 'fireworks' and 'Devilstar'* (in binary files I think), and 'Homing Red Balls', named by some member here. <oni wiki link>
* 'Devil-' might came from the kanji ('word symbole') Oni that was used often by ninja in past, it should frighten the enemy.

Last edited by paradox-01 (14/7/07 5:46)

Offline

#44 14/7/07 6:23

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

The projectile used by Mukade ingame is not fired from the weapon known as w10_sni.ONWC
The "emitter" (called w10_sni_e01) is triggered by a special animation called NINCOMfireball.
The emitter is listed in the ONCP of all Ninjas (not only Mukade) under the label "fireball".
The animation also triggers a "super3" sound event which in Mukade's case is "Devilstar...".
The animation is in turn triggered by Mukade's hardcoded combat behaviour.
You can trigger the animation manually by shapeshifting to a Ninja and entering

chr_animate 0 NINCOMfireball

at the console.
The animation will play for non-Ninjas as long as there are Ninjas in the level.
The fireball will apprear if you're a Ninja, and if you're Mukade you'll say "Devilstar".

So, one difference between that thing and Murzilla's specials is that w10_sni.ONWC exists.
We "weaponized" Murzilla's specials in DemOni, but there wasn't a weapon originally.
Another difference is that Murzilla's specials only have a name in the binary resources.
In Mukade's case, the "Devilstar" quote can be heard ingame, and thus provides a name.

P.S. I wrote "Homing Red Balls" before I became aware of the "Devilstar" sound.
Other, older members used to refer to it as "Fireworks" or "Mukade's Red Ball".
Right now, I like to call it Mukade's Great Balls of Fire (multiple pun intended).
In case you're interested, the Devilstar was featured on the RED THREAD
http://oni.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=312

@ paradox:

the kanji ('word symbole') Oni that was used often by ninja in past, it should frighten the enemy

Sounds interesting. Do you have a reference?


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#45 14/7/07 6:49

Hideoclone_890
Member
From: Metro Manila, Philippines
Registered: 22/6/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

The symbol used in that gun and in the ''mercury Bow''.
Its same, so it means they both kill in one shot ( in other AIs i think).
tongue??

Last edited by Hideoclone_890 (14/7/07 6:50)


Wakokoko! (-_-)

Offline

#46 14/7/07 7:05

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

The identical symbol is there for no good reason.
Both do a lot of damage, but AFAIK not too much.
The SBG, WMC and Screamer are more deadly.
Let's keep this thread focused on the storyline.

Last edited by geyser (14/7/07 7:06)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

#47 14/7/07 7:16

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

re: oni symbole

Psychological effects can be found in two way.
1) try frightening the enemy for real by oni masks
2) use the symbol in a hand seal so they increase their metal power (It is some kind of self-conditioning)

Edit: The first two links don't bring you to a Japanese site, it's in German language..
If this 'help' you azewrath when I say: there isn't that much interesting stuff, just that what I wrote down. It is more a information form where it comes because geyser asked.

Last edited by paradox-01 (14/7/07 9:01)

Offline

#48 14/7/07 8:28

azewrath
Member
From: Malaysia
Registered: 21/6/07

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

help!! i don't read japanese!! 2 bad for me i guess... sad
but there's another thing, Konoko never saw Mukade with Muro or Barabas. Then how did she knew that Mukade is "one of Muro's thugs?" Or rather,was she only guessing?


RESERVOIRDOGS - Trust no one... for real

Offline

#49 14/7/07 10:06

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Strange things about Oni's plotline.

After the Rooftops chase, she has reasons to assume he's part of the Syndicate.
She had to fight familiar units like Strikers, Comguys and Furies on her way up.

Back at the Regional State Building we can "hear her think" the following:

Somebody knew I was going to be poking around in there and sent that hacker after me. I wonder what they're protecting?

which then turns into the following mission objective:

Muro's master ninja, Mukade, has removed the Hasegawa records from the data archives! You must find him, and retrieve the Data Disk that holds the clues to your past.

At that point she has yet to face a Ninja (she might have caught a glimpse of Mukade in the intro).
So this objective holds more information than Mai can possibly possess storywise at that point.
However, she doesn't know anyone who it could be, apart from Muro's Syndicate: a fair guess.

As for us: as opposed to Barabas, we have no way to know that Mukade is acting on Muro's orders.
We can see Muro issuing instructions to/for Barabas in Chapters 2 and 5. None of that for Mukade.
And we should also note that Mukade is presented as the head of his "own" mini-army: the Ninja.
There's no such thing for Barabas: he's free to choose generic troops for an operation, that's all.
More details on the Ninja can be found throughout ASFO2 (be sure to use the search engine)

Last edited by geyser (14/7/07 10:14)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB