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#26 1/2/16 21:30

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

After our chat, Iron Demon,Guard Dogs and Motoko are ingame and fighting with their melee profile. 

To correct the problem, the Iron Demon and Guard Dogs packages had to be updated. In the Mod_Info.cfg file AEInstallVersion was updated to 2.0. In the oni folder, the level folders had to be placed inside the common folder as all 2.0 packages are required to do.

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#27 1/2/16 22:09

Scarlett
Member
From: Jamaica
Registered: 25/11/15

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

EdT wrote:

Made a patch for Motoko and it works.  Though I have some inconsistent errors with AEInstaller when patching other characters. Sometimes, AEInstaller works other times not.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e173/ … e_test.jpg

(If you don't see the screenshot, that means Photobucket is having some maintenance issues)

Pop quiz, can you name the location of this mod???  I wanted a new place to test the the melee profiles of my characters.

Hey that's my Naomi.... Being thrown by Motoko. Naomi may be fast but vulnerable to throw spamming that motoko and Konoko does.. Don't worry motoko, your day will come

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#28 1/2/16 22:13

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

@Scarlett, Once Naomi is updated with her new moves and melee profile, there will be a rematch smile

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#29 1/2/16 22:15

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

EdT wrote:

After our chat, Iron Demon,Guard Dogs and Motoko are ingame and fighting with their melee profile.

Great.  Ideally, all mods will be updated this way, to avoid conflicts.  While it's true that patches are applied on top of the last (highest-numbered) .oni file by the same name, a patch to the level 0 Melee Profile will only stack properly with the mods like Brutal AI that also install to level 0.  Since many mods are supplying whole BINACJBOMelee Profile.oni files in local level folders, those un-patched Profiles will still take precedence over the global one when Oni loads that specific level.  So eventually all levels should have their Profile.oni files converted to .oni-patch format and moved to level 0 in the package of the actual character whose profile it is.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#30 2/2/16 17:08

Scarlett
Member
From: Jamaica
Registered: 25/11/15

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

EdT wrote:

@Scarlett, Once Naomi is updated with her new moves and melee profile, there will be a rematch smile

New melee profile and new punch combo coming soon. Also thag kick spamming mistake I made gave me an idea I want to try out for Naomi's AI

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#31 5/2/16 20:35

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

22006 Sam Mega Pack-Conversion
level11:
- Alters konoko_generic in same ways as 21500, but with some slight differences.  Adds Rayman, Casey, Hayate, Jester, Kojiro, Sarai, and Hammer.
level12, level13, level18, level19:
- Same file as in level11.

23901 Custom Chars Melee Profile
level0:
- Same file as in 22006.


The 23901 custom melee profile is made so that this one profile can supply all melee profiles for custom characters and enables using them in whichever level without the need to add it to individual level folders.
say i updated hayate's melee profile I don't have to go and reupdate Smp conversion lab and smp conversion and fightclub and what not each several MBs just to update the melee profiles in them in the individual folders. instead it just uses the melee profile from 23901 and whenever i update it or add a character all other mods which used it will be updated as well.
it already contains Brutal konoko modifications.

I believe using a central melee profile is best.
I am not going to update each character pack I ever made to include a patch of a melee profile for that character, nor am I willing to then reupdate the several mbs pack again and expect users to redownload it if I choose to update the melee profile for that character again.

The custom melee profile pack I made has been working, if it ain't broke don't fix it, so please don’t mess with my mods ^_^ It took a whole lot of time and planning to figure out a way that works.

You want to add motoko and naomi just add them to the custom melee profile file.
If you want to make them patches that's fine too.
You can change my melee profile pack into patches but keep it as a separate pack with same number. don't remove it and include the patches in the individual character packs.


and btw:
Wilderness Preserve has a dependency on the Hasegawas package, but it also seems to include another copy of an ONCC for James and Jamie.  There might be some reason for that which I don't understand.  Boss Battle, on the other hand, contains all sorts of ONCCs that are also found in standalone character mod packages.  So maybe those could be removed and the package could depend on the character mods, which would contain the melee patches.  This is contrary to my earlier suggestion that we use 23901 for all melee additions. 

Oncc of James and Jamie in their pack have chenille for fun when people play them. Wilderness preserve doesn't and also disables go for gun chance for Jamie in wilderness preserve.

Last edited by Samer (5/2/16 20:36)


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#32 5/2/16 20:53

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

7. How and why has Konoko been modified differently in 21300, 21500, and 22006?

there have bee  several versions of "Brutal konoko" one of them just cycles around opponent and never uses supers.
I included the one that I feel fights the best in 22006 and 23901


a Brutal/Smart mod is installed, it will be overridden by Samer's character mods within his new levels where they appear since the Brutal mods install Melee Profile to level 0 and Samer's go to local levels.  Maybe this is the desired behavior?  I'll just note that Samer's mods are not marked as incompatible with the Brutal/Smart mods in their Mod_Info.cfgs (22006 does say in its description that it is not compatible with other mods that modify Melee Profile, but how is the user to know which those are?).

yes that's the intended behaviour. Brutal AI won't affect SMP, brutal AI on top of SMP makes it too hard for normal players but I didn't want to make them incompatible in case users wanted to experience brutal ai in other levels or custom levels.
incompatible with other mods that modify Melee profiles: like now of say a new mod makes a new melee profile without including the profiles for my characters and releases it affecting same levels mine does and they don't include an incompatible with.


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#33 5/2/16 21:08

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

and btw the melee id in the oncc doesn't matter. the one in the Binacjbolevel or uhm the one that specifies opponents and their ammo and their melee and combat id does.


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#34 5/2/16 21:31

Scarlett
Member
From: Jamaica
Registered: 25/11/15

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Samer wrote:

You want to add motoko and naomi just add them to the custom melee profile file.
If you want to make them patches that's fine too.
You can change my melee profile pack into patches but keep it as a separate pack with same number. don't remove it and include the patches in the individual character packs.

That's what I did. It is also the reason I added her melee in a text document so it can be added to the custom melee profile package that is already download on the PC or Mac of the user so it wouldn't affect changes the user made to the package

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#35 6/2/16 0:35

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Samer wrote:

The 23901 custom melee profile is made so that this one profile can supply all melee profiles for custom characters and enables using them in whichever level without the need to add it to individual level folders.
say i updated hayate's melee profile I don't have to go and reupdate Smp conversion lab and smp conversion and fightclub and what not each several MBs just to update the melee profiles in them in the individual folders. instead it just uses the melee profile from 23901 and whenever i update it or add a character all other mods which used it will be updated as well.

Hi Samer, glad you joined the thread.  I know my first post was a lot of information to absorb at once -- I just wanted to reiterate that I don't see 23901 being required by any other mod.  It seems to be totally unused.  Am I missing something?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#36 6/2/16 19:28

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Maybe I was wrong, I think I was planning on doing something with it but didn't get to it. sorry if I jumped the gun.
the description of the mod says:

Contains the latest Melee profile for custom characters including:
Rayman(ID.120) Casey(ID.121) Hayate\Hanako(ID.122) Jester(ID.123) Kojiro(ID.124) Sarai(ID.125) BGI_Hammer(ID.126)
Meant to be used as a source for other mods that use the mentioned custom characters. It's preferable to localize it in levelx_Final instead of globalized level0 when used in other mods.

It was just meant as a resource for modders who planned to use the custom characters, it's a tester so to speak. I honestly don't remember much anymore sad But I thought I made it a dependency for mods like zen garden, fight club and such, don't know if i intended to later or if i stopped once xml patches became a subject.


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#37 6/2/16 20:36

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Samer wrote:

Maybe I was wrong, I think I was planning on doing something with it but didn't get to it.

Yeah, I searched all Mod_Info.cfgs and didn't see 23901 on any DependsOn lines. 

I honestly don't remember much anymore sad But I thought I made it a dependency for mods like zen garden, fight club and such, don't know if i intended to later or if i stopped once xml patches became a subject.

Like you said, you were probably intending to finish doing something there, but were discouraged by the fact that XML patching was halfway complete at the time.

It was just meant as a resource for modders who planned to use the custom characters, it's a tester so to speak.

Which would have made sense at the time.  But now it seems that there's 3 or 4 slightly different versions of Melee Profile amongst the mods I documented in the first post, and I don't know if 23901 represents the latest version or if later tweaks were made for the new levels.

So this comes back to the main thrust of the thread, which is that it would be nice to "patch-ify" all the profiles while also paring down the profiles to just one authoritative version for each character.  I know it's discouraging to have something like this brought up over two years after your last character creation (I think we've all gotten a bit rusty since then).  It's not necessary to change anything, but if you do agree that there is an issue with the way things are now, then we can work together on patchifying those mods.

I'm not inclined to do the work all by myself, because I am trying to get back on track with my multiplayer work yet other Oni tasks (currently three, besides this one) keep getting in the way.  I simply wanted to document this issue that I found, so that others can act on it if they wish to.  But as a maintainer of the AE, I'd be glad to offer support in implementing XML patching for the melee mods.

Btw, your point is well taken about not wanting to allow Brutal AI to be effective in your levels.  A player might get frustrated without knowing that the reason for the difficulty is that he installed Brutal AI.  If all melee profiles are moved to level 0 in patch form, then Brutal AI will go back to being stackable with your mod.  I would simply say in response to this that it's fine if a modder doesn't want his mod to interact with another one and makes his mod officially incompatible with it.  If a player wants to experience Brutal AI in the vanilla levels, he can just toggle your levels off and that mod on (we even offer the "Save current mod selection" feature for quick-switching mod loadouts).


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#38 7/2/16 12:36

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

if they are in level_X we don't need them to be in level0 too.  for example I see no reason to change the melee profiles in SMP pack to patches. but if a melee profile is to be added to level0_ then a patch would be best. but if they are localized and not overwriting each other, I see no need to make them patches.

Last edited by Samer (7/2/16 12:39)


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#39 7/2/16 19:32

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Well, they're your mods, so I'm not going to keep pushing on this issue, but just to reiterate one last time, the reasons to make your melee data into patch files in the characters' mod packages would be:
- Resolving the invisible incompatibility with the Brutal mods, where they will install but not take effect in your levels (point #1).
- Resolving the differing versions of the melee data given for some characters (points #3 and #4 in my OP).
- Allowing other people to use your characters in their own scripts without having to once again duplicate the Melee Profile from an existing mod of yours (as I just discovered is the case with 77771 Obsolete-Zen Garden and 80211 Junkyard-Zen Garden, which I missed in my OP).

That being said, I'm more concerned with the mystery changes I mentioned in points #6 and #7, the issue with Smart Barabas in #9 (which I will fix soon), and the issues I pointed out with EdT's mods in point #2, #5, #8, and #11.  I'll mark issue #10 as a non-issue since the duplicate IDs don't matter after all.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#40 8/2/16 20:01

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

ok Iritscen can you please teach me how to do a melee profile xml patch? and I will see what I can do, I still would like to have the melee profiles in a separate pack,  (As xml patches) possibly added to my character additives 23900 pack and add a dependency for the mods that will use the melee profiles in it, for these reasons:

1)I don't have to update all the individual character packs now and expect people to redownlaod several MBs for a few bytes file.
2) If I want to modify the melee profiles later on I don't have to update the character packs.
3) some characters may share same profile example Hayate and Hanako may use same profile, I don't have to include it twice in each pack.
4) if they are in a central pack it will be easier for modders to look at that one mod, and see which ids have been used instead of going through X number of character mods and use that mod as basis to make new melee profiles for characters.

does that sound ok?

Last edited by Samer (8/2/16 20:29)


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#41 8/2/16 22:15

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Yes, it does make more sense in the ways you mentioned if you put all the patches in one pack.  (Though you will still have to update the packages 22006 SMP-Conversion, 23906 Sam Dream Lab-Conversion, and 82000 SMP-FightClub in order to remove the Melee Profiles from there.)

As far as creating them, start with my post back here -- http://oni.bungie.org/forum/viewtopic.p … 455#p50455 -- and let me know if any parts don't make sense.  It's really just a matter of cutting out the MELE tag's XML for the new character from the whole Profile, then pasting it in after that @ADD_INSIDE_NODES command, between <xml>...</xml> tags.

The one problem that EdT ran into is that at least one of his packages was not following the 2.0 protocol that the AEI 2.0 uses, and my instructions were for creating a patches/ folder within that 2.0-style hierarchy.  When you mix the old and new style of package, the AEI refuses to work with it.  So just make sure that the whole package is using the hierarchy that goes [type of file, like "oni" or "patches"]/common/level0_Final/.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#42 10/2/16 18:30

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Here is how I will resolve the following issues:

2) Boss Battle package will be updated to use dependencies of GD, ID and SD, unnecessary ONCC’s will be removed.

5) Melee profile for 21300 Guard Dog had my experimental profiles for striker_easy and Motoko, they should not have been included.  Will update package with patch for GD melee only. 81000 was the only package to include Motoko, that is why her melee was included.  I will update the Motoko package wth her melee patch.

6) Same as 5

7)Samer says the version of Brutal Konoko in 22006 SMP conversion is the best, so either the Brutal Konoko package will be updated or it can be removed, since we have Brutal AI.  In that case, Konoko’s melee in Brutal AI, should be updated to the one in 22006.

8) I suppose I could remove the melee profile in level28 for 81000 City, since 81000 is only the model, no scripts. However, I will have to add that melee profile to 81001 City Parkour, since it is needed for that package.

11) Same as 2

Also, Iron Demon will be updated to include a melee patch. I should also come up with a melee patch for Sentry Droid since it currently uses melee id 22

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#43 10/2/16 19:41

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

EdT wrote:

5) Melee profile for 21300 Guard Dog had my experimental profiles for striker_easy and Motoko, they should not have been included.  Will update package with patch for GD melee only. 81000 was the only package to include Motoko, that is why her melee was included.  I will update the Motoko package wth her melee patch.

Actually, I don't think we want any Melee Profiles in level packages.  Samer has agreed to place all of his melee patches in 23901 and then use that as a dependency for his various mods where his characters appear.  I suppose it makes the most sense to collect your characters' melee patches there as well, so that modders can clearly see all the patches at once.


7)Samer says the version of Brutal Konoko in 22006 SMP conversion is the best, so either the Brutal Konoko package will be updated or it can be removed, since we have Brutal AI.  In that case, Konoko’s melee in Brutal AI, should be updated to the one in 22006.

I think there was some kind of reason why we had a separate package just for Brutal Konoko; someone must have wanted to have the option of only upgrading Konoko's AI.  Anyway, I guess I will take responsibility for updating BK with the 22006 version of her profile since I was the submitter of the mod.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#44 11/2/16 0:36

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

So then, 23901 will be a patch file with the melee profiles for all the characters we have made. That sounds good, now, if I want to use Brutal AI in my mod, along with the new characters, it can be done without creating a melee profile for the mod.  The only problem I see is that the player will have Brutal AI in level0, so all the other levels will be using Brutal AI, not the original one.

One question, Boss Battle uses the files from Smart Barabas.  Will I be able to use Brutal AI, Smart Barabas and 23901 all together in Boss Battle?

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#45 11/2/16 10:05

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

EdT wrote:

The only problem I see is that the player will have Brutal AI in level0, so all the other levels will be using Brutal AI, not the original one.

Hmm, I didn't think about that.  At the moment, I'm inclined to say that players will just have to accept that, if they don't want Brutal AI in other levels, they must turn off your mod so that they can turn off Brutal AI too.  The only alternative I can think of is to put your melee data and the Brutal data in the local level folder, and that takes us back to where we started, where your characters' profiles are only available in your specific level and where we are duplicating melee data all over the place.  Since installing mods should be quick for most players, I don't think it's too much to ask them to re-install once in a while in order to toggle Brutal AI on and off.


One question, Boss Battle uses the files from Smart Barabas.  Will I be able to use Brutal AI, Smart Barabas and 23901 all together in Boss Battle?

Yes.  Even now, if 23901 was converted to patches, it would stack on top of Brutal AI and Smart Barabas.

However, Brutal AI and Smart Barabas really need to be cleaned up.  When I find the time, I am going to straighten out Brutal AI's changes.

And Smart Barabas not only needs to have Barabas' smart melee data copied to his other profile that I missed the first time, but the current mod actually used the Brutal AI profile as a base, so right now installing Smart Barabas also gives you Brutal AI.  This is why the three mods you listed can stack properly if 23901 is patchified: Smart Barabas does currently overwrite Brutal AI, but since it contains Brutal AI, it's as if it's stacking on top of it.  However, I don't think it's desirable to sneak Brutal AI in there; the player should be making that choice independently by deciding whether to install the Brutal AI mod.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#46 28/2/16 14:49

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Straightening out the Melee Profile mods

Okay, Smart Barabas is now a patch mod, so it can stack on top of Brutal AI, but no longer contains that mod's data itself.

I have updated my OP by crossing out issues that have been fixed (technically, #10 was not fixed but rather demonstrated to be unimportant).  If EdT or Samer has corrected any other issues (EdT, I think you've fixed at least one?), let me know here so that I can cross those out too.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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