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#1 4/1/11 16:09

Lukas Kreator
Member
Registered: 7/5/10

About Game Engines

In my opinion, we should stop saying things like "hey, we cannot create a fan game in the engine of Tomb Raider, because the physics are bad". The physics of that engine may suck, but c'mon, you don't want a perfect engine, do you? Tomb Raider might have bad phyiscs, but hey, it is one of the most sold games in the world. Not that I like Tomb Raider, and it was just a metaphoric example, but if we intend to make some ONI 2 fan game, we should stop complaining about the problems of engines, and talk about the good parts of them. You people say "it would take a lot of time for us to make an ONI fan game, so we won't", but Konoko Payne is proof of the possibility, and we have a lot of legendary people here.

Just a suggestion.

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#2 4/1/11 16:53

Delano762
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 29/12/10
Website

Re: About Game Engines

I've been reading an article from my gaming magazine about fan-made video games. From what I remember the moral was like: You can do something amazing, but not professional.


Circus Afro, Circus Afro, Polka Dot, Polka Dot!

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#3 4/1/11 19:00

Lukas Kreator
Member
Registered: 7/5/10

Re: About Game Engines

Whatever... You want or not ONI 2? It's a start.

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#4 4/1/11 20:43

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: About Game Engines

Most of us don't want to pull off the mountains of work needed. Take animations, for example. Either we have to duplicate the animation system in another game and make a converter, or have someone reauthor all the animations from scratch. Seriously though, try searching for old threads, this has been discussed to death.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#5 4/1/11 22:30

Lukas Kreator
Member
Registered: 7/5/10

Re: About Game Engines

Well, ok... But I must remember you again about the Konoko Payne... If they did it, why can't us? Better yet, why don't we work with Pierre?

Anyway, I will no more reply to this thread, to prevent old fights... hmm

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#6 4/1/11 22:53

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: About Game Engines

Argh i wanted so fight >_<
Also i remember somewhere i read that some people were working on they're own Oni 2


Oni IRC | Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!

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#7 4/1/11 23:53

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: About Game Engines

We certainly have dedicated people, but even those people would shrink at the workload required at the workload. I'm not faulting anyone here, I'm sure it *could* be done, we have an abundance of ideas. But the thing is, it would take a LONG time to do with only a few people who actually know what they're doing. I know we would all pitch in, but not all of us have the expertise to help.

And not only that the workload is immense, but working on this would require putting aside other projects. I for one want to see Flatline sometime before I die, if we were to work on Oni 2, that project would have to be abandonned, or at least I would NOT see it before I died...

At the very least, wait until Flatline, and maybe the next AE are done. (From what I've seen of the plans for the next AE, it should also be a pretty big endeavour) After these projects are completed, even though that's almost certinly years in the future, and you may not even frequent these forums again at that time, but that's when we might be able to consider it once more. That said, with all the authority I do *not* have, I would strongly recommend that this thread be forgotten for a few years... As Gumby said, this topic has been argued to death.


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#8 5/1/11 14:13

Lukas Kreator
Member
Registered: 7/5/10

Re: About Game Engines

Well, we got people creating models everywhere in the forums, we got people making BSL everywhere too. With some teams focused on certain aspects, and with the abundance of ideas, maybe...

Also, are you that old? XD

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#9 5/1/11 14:55

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: About Game Engines

As I said, it is *possible*, but no one is willing to tackle that option just yet, if ever.

Well no, I'm not very old at all... but that's what I mean... a LONG time -_-


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#10 5/1/11 15:17

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: About Game Engines

I can't say that I see an Oni 2 being worked on any time soon, but we do have some other interesting, and more feasible, projects being worked on.  I feel reluctant posting about it at this point because (a) I haven't been able to do much for the community recently and I hate the idea of being "all talk", and (b) some things are currently out of our hands and it's too soon to talk about them.  Once we get MP off the ground and a couple other things fall into place, we'll need plenty of help from modders to create exciting new content.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#11 5/1/11 19:25

Dirk Gently
Member
From: Boston, MA
Registered: 12/6/09
Website

Re: About Game Engines

There are a number of projects in the pipeline that will enable the creation of new content that we have not been able to experiment fully with before.

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#12 6/1/11 21:03

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: About Game Engines

Iritscen wrote:

I can't say that I see an Oni 2 being worked on any time soon, but we do have some other interesting, and more feasible, projects being worked on.  I feel reluctant posting about it at this point because (a) I haven't been able to do much for the community recently and I hate the idea of being "all talk", and (b) some things are currently out of our hands and it's too soon to talk about them.  Once we get MP off the ground and a couple other things fall into place, we'll need plenty of help from modders to create exciting new content.

So pretty much what I said smile


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#13 6/1/11 21:51

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: About Game Engines

Yes, well I just thought I should say something and not ignore the thread tongue  I feel guilty if someone accuses us of being negative or defeatist about any idea or project, particularly because we've had very little news for the community lately.  I don't want anyone to think that things are dying down when there is a lot that might happen in the coming year, even if it won't be an Oni 2 or a new engine.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#14 6/1/11 23:27

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: About Game Engines

I'm starting to think we should sticky one of the many Oni 2 threads and put a --Read This Before Posting About Oni 2-- note on it.... I can't blame people for posting, it's just that everything has been said, but people just don't look at old post. If we had our arguements stickied up it would act as a deterrent (unless someone managed to find something new to say) in which case it would all be in one place -_-

Last edited by Mukade (6/1/11 23:29)


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#15 7/1/11 5:50

Pierre
Member
Registered: 24/1/07

Re: About Game Engines

It's not impossible, it just takes some skills, a lot of time, and a strong mind to never give up smile My personal trick is to NOT think in terms of "how much time will it take?". It's my hobby. It can take my whole lifetime for all I care.

That being said, I think what you guys need most are experienced C++ programmers. If you focus on a single task at a time, say, recreating the animation engine, and if you know a bit what you're doing, it's not so long. The hardest part was probably to create all the animation data! But once you have that, playing animations, blending animations, it's not really the most difficult part of an engine. A good programmer can write a decent animation engine in a couple of months I'd say.

Note that the "animation engine" itself doesn't do much. It doesn't do collisions, for example. *That* is a lot more challenging already.

What would require more time though, once the code is there, is to recreate the "look and feel" from Oni. That's not technically difficult, but it's a mountain of tweaks and gameplay adjustments really. I think for this you need experienced Oni players who know how it's supposed to behave/feel, more than experienced programmers, really.

Anyway I can give away parts of my code if it helps. (I already replaced PathEngine with Recast as a first step towards a source release, but I still need to do something about the physics engine.)

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#16 7/1/11 9:55

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: About Game Engines

I think for now we have our hands full with just the current engine.  There's a lot more we can do with it, so I don't think any of us have plans to start something new, from scratch.  After all, you've already done so much work on your own original engine (esp. with recreating the animation system) that if we ever wanted to move to a new engine, yours would probably be the best fit.  Maybe at some point when we're ready, we can talk more with you about applying some of your engine's improvements to Oni's engine (like maybe better graphics).


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#17 10/1/11 20:54

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: About Game Engines

Next year, I'm taking some programmming classes in high school, I'm not sure if it's C, C# or C++ but I hope it's the latter. I know, you're thinking "High school course isn't going to give you much experience"... true, but I found that I'm pretty quick study at programming, I took courses in grade 10 on a very basic language and I was one of the best at it. Hopefully when I start learning, I'll be able to help out in that way, and thus expand my programming experience smile


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#18 10/1/11 21:44

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: About Game Engines

Yeah, a little programming education goes a long way.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#19 10/1/11 22:16

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: About Game Engines

Indeed, once you learn and master one language, I'd think it'd be pretty easy to simple to just learn the syntax and various nuances of the other languages you want to learn. Well, okay, it might be a little more involved than that, but in essence, I believe I'm right?


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#20 10/1/11 22:39

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: About Game Engines

Yeah, definitely.  Especially once you've learned at least one procedural language and one object-oriented language, you've pretty much seen it all, and picking up another language is easy.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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