Oni Central Forum

A forum for the Oni community

You are not logged in.

#1 18/6/10 22:43

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

I'll just kick this off with the main point up here; the rest is all a bunch of supporting information:

Bugs are not inherently evil; some bugs are even good. Each bug must be examined individually, and the community must decide whether or not it is bad-enough to be worth removing.

If anyone has any disagreements/comments/etc, I'd like to discuss them. It'd be good if you read the rest of this post first, though. I'm sorry that it's so long, but it's all important I think.

Introduction To "Competitive" Gaming:
In recent years, I've gotten into "competitive gaming" - gaming that is based around tournaments, in which a large percentage of the players regularly go to tournaments and actively try to improve their skills.

There are a number of different games, communities, and organizations involved in competitive gaming. The most successful of these is undoubtedly South Korean professional StarCraft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHkJe1K75F4 .

Some people enjoy competitive gaming as a vehicle for self-improvement, and enjoy developing their skills over time. Or they enjoy the never-ending challenge (unless you manage to become the best player in the world, there's always someone out there you will struggle against).

A major benefit of competitive gaming is that it's a good way to find games with incredible depth. The first version of Street Fighter II came out in 1991, and the current version is still played competitively, because it still hasn't gotten boring/old for its players - even the players who have spent years trying hard to master everything in it. If a game is well-built for competitive play, it will last.

I've personally been involved with the competitive Super Smash Bros. community since the summer of 2008. I'm not super-competitive, but I enjoy learning/experimenting with new techniques, and meeting people at tournaments who have playstyles I've never encountered before.

There is a "traditional 2D fighting game" community based around the likes of Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, and Guilty Gear. It is older than the Smash community. Because Smash has a ton of influence from the traditional fighting games, the Smash community paid a lot of attention to the traditional fighting game community's ideas/decisions when forming the Smash tournament rulesets.

If we want to make sure Oni will last, I think it's definitely worth looking at the competitive fighting game community and the games they play.

Bug Philosophy:
The traditional fighting game community has been based around arcade games and console games. The Smash community has been based entirely around console games. Downloadable bug fixes have not been available for most arcade games or console games. This means that, if a game shipped with a given bug, that bug was never fixed. In the case of each bug, the community itself has had to decide whether or not to remove it (by banning its use in the tournament rules).

Over the years, a consensus has formed in both communities that some bugs make the gameplay worse, and others merely make the gameplay different. The former are considered banworthy, and the latter are not.

David Sirlin is a veteran competitive Street Fighter player who's written a bunch of articles on the competitive fighting game community's perspectives. Here's one article he's written that's very relevant to this discussion (it's kind of long though): http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-sho … anned.html

Example Of A "Bad" Bug:
Super Smash Bros. Melee has bugs. One of them is the Ice Climbers' freeze glitch. Once it is performed, the other character is immobile and cannot be controlled by its player. If the player who performed the glitch is ahead in lives/damage, then when the time runs out at the end of the match, they will win by default.

Here's a video example of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L-5cFaSCCc .

That is a game-breaking exploit. Its use transforms matches from intense, complicated back-and-forth struggles into waiting for the time to run out. For that reason, using it is banned.

Example Of A "Neutral" Bug:
Another of Melee's bugs is that, on certain stages, Mewtwo can pull other characters through the floor, and they fall out the bottom of the stage. At that point, they're forced to use just their midair jumps to try to get back around the side of the stage and on top again. If they fail, they will lose a life via ring-out.

Getting back on top can be difficult, especially for characters with poor midair jumps, and the Mewtwo player can try to intercept them as they come around the side of the stage.

You can see this exploit being used twice at 1:04 in this Mewtwo combo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfU98MrY_M0 .

However, Mewtwo only has one move that does this, and it only works if the opponent is near the edge of the stage. It's not too difficult to avoid standing in that area when a Mewtwo player tries to use the exploit. Furthermore, even with this exploit, Mewtwo is one of the worst characters in the game.

Because of its limitations, and because it doesn't interfere with playing the game (it merely sometimes allows for a quick kill), it is considered an "okay" bug that merely makes the game different. It is allowed in tournaments, and the game is not any worse off for it.

Example Of A "Good" Bug:
Melee's most famous bug is that, if you perform an airdodge diagonally downwards into the ground, your speed is never reset to 0 (which normally happens at the end of the dodge), and you slide along the ground until friction stops you.

This enables a well-known exploit/technique called "wavedashing", which consists of jumping and, at the very beginning of the jump, airdodging to slide yourself along the ground.

A video explanation of wavedashing can be found at 7:15 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE .

Some characters can wavedash faster than they can run. And because a wavedash starts with a jump, it can be performed in some situations where a normal run cannot. Furthermore, wavedashing is one of the few ways to move backwards on the ground. For these reasons, it is useful in a variety of situations.

So far, wavedashing has not come close to hurting the gameplay, and actually has increased Melee's complexity and depth significantly. As such, it has not been banned, is widely used, and is considered to be one of the good features of Melee.

[Edit: A visit by the spelling fairy ;-) --I]

Last edited by Iritscen (19/6/10 5:31)

Offline

#2 19/6/10 5:45

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Well, I don't have a philosophy about bugs in games.  All I know is that it embarrasses me as a fan of Oni when I see its bugs abused by players, and it makes me want to fix them.  So I would hate to leave in a bug like the Backbreaker teleport or cooldown exploit just because it makes the game look bad.

Because the premise and presentation of Oni is much more realistic than your standard 2D fighting game, I think that players naturally expect a "solid" gameplay experience.  So glitches that let characters subvert the normal laws of the game's universe are more glaring than in an inherently unrealistic game like Smash Bros., where the premise is that random characters from totally different video games are fighting each other for no reason.

That's not a knock against those games; I just think that it's comparing apples to oranges to approach Oni's gameplay the way people approach Smash Bros.  Smash Bros. starts from a position of having no obvious rules for its universe because it's so fantastical, whereas when someone looks at Oni, they expect the characters to behave like flesh-and-blood humans who are trained in realistic fighting styles.  Even the occasional super move doesn't take away from that general context of realism.

So I can only see good in fixing bugs, regardless of whether they "add depth".  Oni is deep enough that it doesn't need glitches to make things more interesting; besides, we have ideas for adding to that depth with things like throw escapes.  Isn't that enough?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#3 19/6/10 21:08

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

That was very well put Irit, I don't think i can add on to that smile

Just as an example, the "back-breaker when the character is behind you glitch" While it may not break the game, as a "realistic" game, it should not happen... However, imo, we should find a way to implement that into the game without having to remove it, as i said somewhere else, simply find a way to make it a seperate animation by itself, when you throw them from behind you, hence fixing the bug and keeping the effect

As for competitive gameplay, I believe this concept will take off very quickly in Oni, I don't see tournaments like that Starcraft vid (damn those asians are good, I play Starcraft) when peoples careers are staked on it, at least not at first (the game may pick up popularity in the future because of it, and may someday result in tourney's like that, who knows) But at least friendly competition, between the fans on OCF to improve and pick up stuff from othre players. This game is the perfect thing for that type of thing


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

Offline

#4 19/6/10 21:30

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Mukade wrote:

However, imo, we should find a way to implement that into the game without having to remove it, as i said somewhere else, simply find a way to make it a seperate animation by itself, when you throw them from behind you, hence fixing the bug and keeping the effect

Yes, something like a judo throw would be a cool way to handle that.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#5 19/6/10 22:45

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Huh, I don't feel embarrassed about the bugs at all. I guess overall, Oni feels so flawed to me that its bugs seem trivial or something.

As far as realism: Oni is certainly more realistic than Smash and the traditional fighters, but it still has a bajillion unrealistic mechanics that are not bugs. It seems to me that if bugs are fixed for the purpose of realism, there are many other changes we have to make to the non-bug mechanics, and it sounds like we'd probably need the source code to do so.

Iritscen wrote:

Oni is deep enough that it doesn't need glitches to make things more interesting; besides, we have ideas for adding to that depth with things like throw escapes.  Isn't that enough?

We can certainly make do without the depth the bugs bring (for that matter, we can make do without a lot of things), but more depth is always good, and having as much of it as possible will make Oni a better game with more lasting power.

Mukade (on the teleport backbreakers) wrote:

However, imo, we should find a way to implement that into the game without having to remove it, as i said somewhere else, simply find a way to make it a seperate animation by itself, when you throw them from behind you, hence fixing the bug and keeping the effect

Yeah, if we can alter the bugs to be more realistic while keeping their mechanics, it's probably the best solution. It looks like our disagreements on them really just stem from some of us valuing the realism more highly than the mechanics, and others of us valuing the mechanics more highly than the realism, so if we can have both, we should all be happy.

Heh, I suppose with this sort of approach, cooldown cancelling could be handled by putting a description in somewhere saying "guns have an automatic safety feature where they rearm themselves more slowly/safely when they're held, but if you drop a gun it will rearm itself instantly" or something. Makes about as much sense as the ballistic ammo. tongue

Last edited by Paff (19/6/10 22:46)

Offline

#6 19/6/10 23:27

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

It all depends on how each person views the bugs, I guess we all see them differently...
It just seems to me that we should be playing the game the way the people that made the game intended us to play it. Am I the only one who feels that?

Also, against computer players, bugs give us the advantage, one that we shouldnt have. Now on the other hand, if they used them against us also, I might be a bit more open to keeping them around, since it doesn't tip the gameplay, but that isn't the case

@Cooldown cancel... That's sort of the idea, but that specific line of reasoning is reaching a bit tongue

@Judo throw, that's exactly what I had in mind


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

Offline

#7 20/6/10 1:52

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

I'm not going  to get into this cooldown canceling argument again...


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

Offline

#8 20/6/10 2:34

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Gumby:
Heh. I was hoping you'd at least read the OP and give it some thought, but of course if you don't want to get into this, you don't have to.

Mukade:
- I definitely don't put much weight on creators' intent. They're only human, they can make mistakes with their designs, they can't forsee everything that's going to develop, etc. Melee is the perfect example: it was never intended to be played seriously, but it's amazing when played seriously.
- The AI doesn't use lots and lots of potential techniques. I don't really see how them not using something doesn't mean we shouldn't use it against them.

Offline

#9 20/6/10 3:39

love_Oni
Member
From: Da Nang, Vietnam
Registered: 10/5/08

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

I agree with the idea of removing cooldown canceling. It gives us too big advantage and makes many guns become too dangerous, such as the Mercury Bow, Screaming Cannon, SBG, etc...

If I can choose, I will remove the back "teleporting" breaker bug if possible, because it will annoy us if we play in MP. Judo throw is not a bad idea, but it is not easy to do that because the engine cannot discriminate between the normal back-breaker and the "godlike" back-breaker, I think smile.

Bettering the moves/animations is needed, too. It will help balancing the power among characters. Look at male characters, most of them are slow, right? Giving them more power in their attacks will make them more competitive.

AI improvement is a good thing, too, since most of them are dump (except Mukade, ninjas, furies, and maybe Griffin). I notice brown striker has fought better since EdT's "butal AI" mod, as well as Konoko, Muro, and so on. They have made many trouble to me when I'm fighting.


The Boy Who Knew Too Much tongue

Offline

#10 20/6/10 7:06

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

love_Oni wrote:

If I can choose, I will remove the back "teleporting" breaker bug if possible, because it will annoy us if we play in MP. Judo throw is not a bad idea, but it is not easy to do that because the engine cannot discriminate between the normal back-breaker and the "godlike" back-breaker, I think smile.

Yes, probably we'd need to use something like the Daodan to detect where the enemy is when Oni tries to do a Backbreaker, then force the game to play a different animation instead when they're behind Konoko.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#11 20/6/10 9:38

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Paff wrote:

Gumby:
Heh. I was hoping you'd at least read the OP and give it some thought, but of course if you don't want to get into this, you don't have to.

Mukade:
- I definitely don't put much weight on creators' intent. They're only human, they can make mistakes with their designs, they can't forsee everything that's going to develop, etc. Melee is the perfect example: it was never intended to be played seriously, but it's amazing when played seriously.
- The AI doesn't use lots and lots of potential techniques. I don't really see how them not using something doesn't mean we shouldn't use it against them.

I did read it, and I do agree with some of it, but I just don't agree that the bug is one that falls under its scope.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

Offline

#12 20/6/10 13:20

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Iritscen wrote:
love_Oni wrote:

If I can choose, I will remove the back "teleporting" breaker bug if possible, because it will annoy us if we play in MP. Judo throw is not a bad idea, but it is not easy to do that because the engine cannot discriminate between the normal back-breaker and the "godlike" back-breaker, I think smile.

Yes, probably we'd need to use something like the Daodan to detect where the enemy is when Oni tries to do a Backbreaker, then force the game to play a different animation instead when they're behind Konoko.

yeah, that's the real problem, since it is in fact a "bug" theres no real condition that we can change that will make that into a seperate move. Same problem lies with teleporting back breaker, since we don't know what causes it, we can't fix it tongue


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

Offline

#13 20/6/10 19:27

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

love_Oni: My thoughts are that we're going to want to rebalance those guns anyway, and when we do it we can make them balanced even with cooldown cancelling.

Gumby: K.

Huh, so does anyone actually know what it is that's broken and makes the teleport backbreakers work?

Offline

#14 20/6/10 23:43

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Something in the mess that is the melee code. smile I have a few theories, but they will all be hard to test.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

Offline

#15 21/6/10 3:15

Jon God
Member
Registered: 17/1/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

If the bugs were not there, we'd not be having this discussion.

I am willing to bet, if we fixed all the 'bugs' the majority of the people would be happy about it, or at least not be angry about it.

Yes, games in the past left glitches, but you don't think some of the developers back in the SNES time period would have loved to go back and fix bugs. I mean, the NES version of Battletoads had one level where, when playing COOP, player 2 would not be able to move, making the game, without warps, impossible to beat. It just wasn't the right time. Now look at things like Halo, for example, where they patched out glitches.

I believe, that the Oni gameplay would be a better thing without glitches, not only would it be in tune with the developer's original intentions, but look at it this way:

There are a lot of people that will start playing a game, but end up dropping it because people online use glitches and exploits that are not covered in single player, forcing them to ask others, or try and figure it out themselves, which is a big turn off.

One of the reasons that Halo was so successful was it's 'pick-up-and-play' value, anyone could play it and have a chance, not just those that knew all the in and outs, and/or practiced lots, however, it's still professionally played despite this. The more glitches there are in a game, the more a player has to learn before having the playing field equal. This is NOT something that makes people want to get into a game.

Sure you could say "Well, it will scare of some people, but whatever" and that's the problem. This community will start at 0, this is not a commercial release, we are limited to whatever this community can do in terms of promotion. This is a situation where we *need* to have pick-up-and-play value, or we will stuck with the community we have now. Nothing wrong with this community, but it's not very big. Something I've learned from the Myth community, you really don't want to start with a small community, because it will only shrink.

I feel like, if we have a chance to fix these issues now, it would be a shame to let them go for 1.0 of Flatline. I mean, why, when we only have a chance to launch this once, and I am willing to bet at least 60% people would not try Oni again, if they did not like it the first time around.


Jon-God.jpg
PSN: Jon_God
XBL: Ernie The Bear

Offline

#16 21/6/10 11:56

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Jon God makes a very good point smile

I HATE trying a game out multiplayer, only to find that most people have mastered certain bugs and exploits, and me, trying to play the game as i learned in SP, cannot begin to compete... usually makes me drop it pretty fast tongue


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

Offline

#17 21/6/10 21:35

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Hmm. That is a good point.

Similar to the bugs, Oni's singleplayer doesn't do a very good job of getting players to master some of the techniques like the special moves, the side/back attacks, and using guns in melee combat. Maybe part of Flatline should involve updating the singleplayer do a better job of teaching those techniques to new players?

Also, Jon God: Would you be opposed to leaving the bugs in and updating the singleplayer to teach the bugs to new players? If so, why?

Offline

#18 21/6/10 21:56

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

I never used to be very good with escape moves, I always just went for the kill... I do it a bit more, but still ^_^

I do however make good use of side/back attacks and I try to use more obscure mores such as side+fw+kick which is surprisingly effective and looks awesome when you hit someone (especailly when they're lunging for you big_smile )


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

Offline

#19 21/6/10 23:11

Jon God
Member
Registered: 17/1/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Paff wrote:

Hmm. That is a good point.

Similar to the bugs, Oni's singleplayer doesn't do a very good job of getting players to master some of the techniques like the special moves, the side/back attacks, and using guns in melee combat. Maybe part of Flatline should involve updating the singleplayer do a better job of teaching those techniques to new players?

Also, Jon God: Would you be opposed to leaving the bugs in and updating the singleplayer to teach the bugs to new players? If so, why?

First off, that's a lot of work. You would have to redesign level sections to accommodate that, which, like I said, is 'a lot of work.'

Second what is the incentive? Say we take video of people playing multiplayer, to make a trailer, it would not be fun to have to edit out parts because they show glitches, that's hardly professional. Or, what if you are showing someone new the game, glitches are really not the best way to show the quality of the game.

The alternative, 'Just getting rid of them', is a lot less work, and would avoid these, and other issues.


Jon-God.jpg
PSN: Jon_God
XBL: Ernie The Bear

Offline

#20 22/6/10 21:12

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

K, I'll take your word on the "lot of work" point. And the "glitches aren't good to start new players with" argument makes some sense I think, if you mean it in terms of "lots of new players will assume that the game is bad because it has glitches".

I think not putting the glitches in the trailer would probably be pretty trivial, though. tongue

Overall, if a large percentage of potential players will be turned away by the bugs no matter what we do to incorporate them into the game, and if we're going to need those players to get Oni to take off, then I would probably be in favor of fixing the bugs and attempting to compensate by adding complexity via new features. Although it still leaves the problem of "what should we do about the bugs that we can't fix?".

You say "what is the incentive?", and based on your statements immediately afterwards, I'm not sure how literally you mean it. In case you do mean it literally: in a nutshell, I think cooldown cancelling has massive potential to make the gunplay more complex and deep. Midair jumps/rising aerial dodges also have a lot of potential I think, though finding good applications for them is going to be difficult. I'm mostly neutral on the other bugs I'm aware of, though.

Also, I just remembered today: when I first played Oni, the most similar thing I'd seen was The Matrix, and I got to playing Oni with a mindset of "using the glitches and whatnot is equivalent to bending/breaking the rules of the matrix in The Matrix, and it'll allow me to do all sorts of cool and interesting things that you can't normally do". So for me, the bugs never seemed tacky or unprofessional, but more like exciting opportunities to develop in-game superpowers. But I guess most other people never felt that way?

Last edited by Paff (22/6/10 21:22)

Offline

#21 22/6/10 22:36

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Maybe... in singleplayer, how you play the game is your business, but in MP we need to make sure the playing level is even


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

Offline

#22 22/6/10 22:45

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Mukade wrote:

Maybe... in singleplayer, how you play the game is your business, but in MP we need to make sure the playing level is even

Even in what sense?

Offline

#23 23/6/10 0:21

Jon God
Member
Registered: 17/1/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Paff wrote:

K, I'll take your word on the "lot of work" point. And the "glitches aren't good to start new players with" argument makes some sense I think, if you mean it in terms of "lots of new players will assume that the game is bad because it has glitches".

I think not putting the glitches in the trailer would probably be pretty trivial, though. tongue

Overall, if a large percentage of potential players will be turned away by the bugs no matter what we do to incorporate them into the game, and if we're going to need those players to get Oni to take off, then I would probably be in favor of fixing the bugs and attempting to compensate by adding complexity via new features. Although it still leaves the problem of "what should we do about the bugs that we can't fix?".

You say "what is the incentive?", and based on your statements immediately afterwards, I'm not sure how literally you mean it. In case you do mean it literally: in a nutshell, I think cooldown cancelling has massive potential to make the gunplay more complex and deep. Midair jumps/rising aerial dodges also have a lot of potential I think, though finding good applications for them is going to be difficult. I'm mostly neutral on the other bugs I'm aware of, though.

Also, I just remembered today: when I first played Oni, the most similar thing I'd seen was The Matrix, and I got to playing Oni with a mindset of "using the glitches and whatnot is equivalent to bending/breaking the rules of the matrix in The Matrix, and it'll allow me to do all sorts of cool and interesting things that you can't normally do". So for me, the bugs never seemed tacky or unprofessional, but more like exciting opportunities to develop in-game superpowers. But I guess most other people never felt that way?

Out of complete curiosity, and honesty, how often/how many games have you played online?


Jon-God.jpg
PSN: Jon_God
XBL: Ernie The Bear

Offline

#24 23/6/10 7:00

love_Oni
Member
From: Da Nang, Vietnam
Registered: 10/5/08

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Sorry if I interrupt you, I just think that: How about listing the bugs/issues that you thought of, making a poll, then asking people which bugs they want to be fixed, which bugs they don't want to? Maybe that will make the discussion more clear, and we can know what everybody is thinking?


The Boy Who Knew Too Much tongue

Offline

#25 23/6/10 10:05

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Bug Philosophy (And Competitive Gaming)

Paff wrote:
Mukade wrote:

Maybe... in singleplayer, how you play the game is your business, but in MP we need to make sure the playing level is even

Even in what sense?

Even as in all players have an equal fighting chance, no one can get the upper hand by exploiting bugs that others aren't aware of or can't execute themselves

@Love_Oni... maybe a good idea, stuff like the ever popular back breaker glitch can be voted on, and other stuff, such as what I refer to as a slip-jump, where you can abuse the physics of the game by running off an edge and jumping right after to achieve a slightly farther jump.

Prolly should make a list before making a poll tho


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB