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#26 25/5/10 21:34

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

It's just those two moves, crecent moon kick more than willow kick, is it possible to make this easier to do?

Also, it would be awesome if new animations were made for these key combos... (i might consider it myself)


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#27 26/5/10 1:46

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Gumby wrote:

Neutral kick seems strictly worse than forward kick.

Neutral kick isn't meant to be used standalone. It has the advantage of leading to both the spinning sidekick and the crescent moon kick. If you add up the damages (if you hit with all three kicks) you will be doing more than most things you can combo out of a forward kick. However, comboing with forward kick (typically into another forward kick or forward punch) has the advantage of knocking the enemy down (useful if you want to get away) and a guaranteed second hit if you connect with the first, due to the slight stunning effect it has.

I need to test more against high-level enemies with Upgraded ONCCs, but it seems like forward kick combos into running lariat, running kickthrow, and drawing-your-gun-and-firing-at-point-blank. I don't know the damages on fkick+lariat or fkick+runkickthrow, or how they compare to nkick+nkick+nkick, but they certainly look more powerful, heh.

Is there a listing of move damages somewhere? If not, how can I look it up in Oni's data?

Also, as of tonight, I believe I've found an infinite combo for Konoko, that seems to work against ninjas. Punch->fkick, scoot forward ever-so-slightly, repeat until dead. I need to try it more, though, and try it against non-ninjas. If it does indeed work, it's more reason why her fkick is better than her nkick.

Gumby wrote:

Crouching already gives you a defensive advantage in blocking low moves and ducking under many higher moves. Plus, many of the crouch attacks can only be blocked if you are crouching yourself.

Yeah, I do need to try crouching more.

Gumby wrote:

Back attacks would be useful if you noticed someone trying to sneak up on you.

It seems like, if you do it, the AI can block it a fair amount of the time, and if they block it, they have a guaranteed counterattack. Whereas if you roll/run away, the AI can't catch you most of the time.

Gumby wrote:

I do recommend you try punch, left+punch, punch though.

I messed around with that a little tonight, didn't seem to do much. Is there some particular situation I should try it in?

Gumby wrote:

The from-behind punch throw is basically equivalent to the backbreaker, but does less damage. The backwards aerial attacks seem to be useless, but I haven't tried them enough yet. Etc.

I agree that throw is kind of weak, the only advantage it seems to have is that it can damage others and doesn't leave you as vulnerable during/after.

I hadn't thought of hitting others with it. And I suppose in some rare circumstances where you're behind someone and you have your back to a cliff, you might be able to throw them off the cliff with it. So it probably is useful, but only rarely.

Iritscen wrote:

I think practically all the moves discussed are useful, and they're even more useful when you use them all because it keeps the AI guessing.

Does the AI actually get confused when you mix things up? I've actually never tried it, heh.

Iritscen wrote:

I use lots of crouch attacks, and I find the side and backward attacks to be more likely to land than the forward attacks.

See above responses to Gumby.

Iritscen wrote:

The running backwards attacks are useful for backing out of being cornered while also attacking in the direction you're escaping.

I haven't had much luck with that, personally, compared to either using rolls or throws. This is the only use I've found for them so far, and I don't want to make a habit of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsAU1ufJo0 tongue

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#28 26/5/10 11:51

gorilla325
Member
Registered: 29/11/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

i don't care about the graphic.  i thought the graphics is good enough.  turning on TV and radio sounds boring to me, i never cared about those things in max payne... 

i am disappointed in the platforming the most right now.  a good level design with platforming in mind might solve the problem a bit. 

throwing is a bit annoyed to me too.  i mean, i wish to have a separate button to throw.  i felt i was close enough to throw, but i could not sometimes...  and i wish i am able to choose where i can throw people to in some throwing moves. 

a reaction button or some reaction mechanics would be nice. 

the other thing is the multiplayer.  two modes, one is pure fighting.  the other one involved platforming, maybe something like a mario cart, but instead of car, it's just running, jumping, hasseling each other with throwing stuff at each other, or kick punch shoot each other, not to dying, but slow opponents down...  lol 

a training room would be nice.  i am able to perform every moves now.  but i was like many people here, it took me a long time to really get those moves right.  i remember i didn't even know if i performed the moves correctly or not...

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#29 26/5/10 14:04

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

You it's good to mix things up for the AI, but I believe that is not really good logic. The AI can't think for themselves, and they won't be "suprised" when you pull one move instead of the other, they have programmed responses. Although, a good line of reasoning for the same point would be to mix things up for youself. Whta fun is it to keep on spamming the same moves right? Makes the game interesting and the fight look cooler.

In multiplayer, mixing up moves will certainly be useful, may as well start practicing wink Force youself to break some habits or combos that you do constently, and try something else. Adapt to the moment, and like Irit said, mix things up smile

What would be awesome is "learning" AI, but that, I believe, is out of our reach, moreso than Oni 2 or Multiplayer


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#30 26/5/10 16:56

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

It's not hard to program at all.  And in fact I've always thought that the AI does learn your moves.  Each time I use a certain move against a certain enemy, they seem more likely to block or dodge it.  Only in this discussion am I realizing that not everyone thinks this is true of the AI.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#31 26/5/10 17:06

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Maybe individual AI, but they don't last long enough to matter.

I kinda wish the game saved it's knowledge of your style


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#32 26/5/10 19:20

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

I've had a fair number of instances happen where I try something against the AI, and it seems to work a couplea times, but then seems to stop working. I'd always assumed it was just coincidence, but it's happened enough times that, combined with your certainty, I think there's a reasonable chance the AI does learn a little.

But there are some things they don't learn how to deal with, and some things that can't be dealt with, and I've mostly been looking for those things and using them when I play.

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#33 16/6/10 19:09

RuthgerMiles
Member
From: Netherlands - Enschede
Registered: 11/10/08

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

I just would put more enemy's in the game the higher level you go.. so not 2 green strikers on easy
and 1 green and 1 red on hard..

Just put 3/4 strikers instead of units, much more challeging to me cuz their easy to kill


You play to much oni if: You paint your hair purple, call your little brother Muro and beats him up 3 times a day like this...

crazydolfightom4lk0.gif

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#34 16/6/10 20:45

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Paff wrote:

I've had a fair number of instances happen where I try something against the AI, and it seems to work a couplea times, but then seems to stop working. I'd always assumed it was just coincidence, but it's happened enough times that, combined with your certainty, I think there's a reasonable chance the AI does learn a little.

But there are some things they don't learn how to deal with, and some things that can't be dealt with, and I've mostly been looking for those things and using them when I play.

Does that necessarily mean they learn? It just means that they're changing tactics because their attack is not working, maybe theyre just programmed to vary their attacks, style maybe angle of approach, etc... Just cause they did something different doesn't mean they learned anything


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#35 17/6/10 0:32

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Heh, Mukade, that's actually the technical definition of "learning". tongue I don't think Irit or I meant it in any way other than that.

And yeah, having more enemies on hard might be good, or maybe replacing Strikers with Elites or something.

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#36 17/6/10 20:51

CocaPuff
Member
Registered: 17/6/10

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

I was kind of disappointed that the levels were pretty linear and about how the plot was kind of vague.

Last edited by CocaPuff (17/6/10 20:52)


Dain bramaged

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#37 17/6/10 23:49

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Paff wrote:

Heh, Mukade, that's actually the technical definition of "learning". tongue I don't think Irit or I meant it in any way other than that.

And yeah, having more enemies on hard might be good, or maybe replacing Strikers with Elites or something.

Then I guess we were talking about two different things, I was talking about learning about specific styles of the player, not just random changes in tactic, I guess I was thinking of more complex thinking, but that's way out of our league wink

CocaPuff wrote:

I was kind of disappointed that the levels were pretty linear and about how the plot was kind of vague.

I do know what you mean about linear levels.. there's the occasional time where you can "fork" like in airport assault, you can choos to go through that gas tunnel with laser trips, or follow muro... Or the choice at end of TCTF (redux)

My dream is that in Oni 2, will have some elements similar to Assassin's Creed type game, where can actually wander around and interact with the environement a bit smile

@Plot... I dunno, I found it needed some extrapolation here and there, but I think that's enjoyable personally, also, reading info consoles helps fill in those holes

Last edited by Mukade (17/6/10 23:50)


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#38 18/6/10 5:49

s10k
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Empty levels, said a friend to me.

I also think that them didn't have much interactivity and were also a bit repetitive.

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#39 18/6/10 6:39

love_Oni
Member
From: Da Nang, Vietnam
Registered: 10/5/08

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Paff wrote:

I need to test more against high-level enemies with Upgraded ONCCs, but it seems like forward kick combos into running lariat, running kickthrow, and drawing-your-gun-and-firing-at-point-blank. I don't know the damages on fkick+lariat or fkick+runkickthrow, or how they compare to nkick+nkick+nkick, but they certainly look more powerful, heh.

Is there a listing of move damages somewhere? If not, how can I look it up in Oni's data?

Here is the list of moves in Oni:http://wiki.oni2.net/Combat_moves
And here is the table of damage dealt by them:http://zdlo.oni2.net/Items/Table_of_damage_dealt.htm

I don't think Oni lacks combos, Paff tongue. Try using many moves and you'll find your own combo soon. Try dodging, crouching and directional moves too. My most favorite combo is punch, crouched-punch, forward-crouched-punch and crouched-kick. It's very effective against Strikers. big_smile Muro also has some good combos, too. Try this: leg-break throw, quick crouch punch, the enemy will get up => quickly do a jump-kick before they do, they fall => do a run-kick. It does a lot of damage.


The Boy Who Knew Too Much tongue

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#40 18/6/10 8:43

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

I always just shadow-step through my enemy and executre a back throw... but thats cause I play Akane... effective enough, although it bugs me when, as soon as I come out of it they manage to punch me or pull me out with a throw... computers just aren't capable of being surprise... but against human players, I imagine I'll be more effective  cool

Man, I can't wait to test my skills against other people... you really don't know how good you are at a game until you test your mettle against other people.. I imagine some people who thought they were pro at the game will find that other people are in fact better then them ;/

Actually, I'm planning on making a "stealth" combo vid, of me sneaking up on enemies and quickly dispatiching them big_smile


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#41 18/6/10 9:15

love_Oni
Member
From: Da Nang, Vietnam
Registered: 10/5/08

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Mukade wrote:

Actually, I'm planning on making a "stealth" combo vid, of me sneaking up on enemies and quickly dispatiching them big_smile

Really? Oh, I can't wait to see your movie. big_smile

Mukade wrote:

I always just shadow-step through my enemy and executre a back throw... but thats cause I play Akane... effective enough, although it bugs me when, as soon as I come out of it they manage to punch me or pull me out with a throw... computers just aren't capable of being surprise... but against human players, I imagine I'll be more effective  cool

Man, I can't wait to test my skills against other people... you really don't know how good you are at a game until you test your mettle against other people.. I imagine some people who thought they were pro at the game will find that other people are in fact better then them ;/

Right, I agree. When I was still playing the original Oni, I thought I was the best player ever sad, but, until I installed AE I realized that I used to attack recklessly without thinking anything at all, so I decided to learn dodging, blocking, diversifying my attacking moves, etc... I really want the MP will come up soon, so I can test my fighting skill and have chance to compete with other people big_smile

The shadow dash is an effective and useful move in game, but I don't appreciate it in MP. Has the ninja have many advantages already? Still, the shadow dash can't deny the fact someone cannot go through the body of any people and object


The Boy Who Knew Too Much tongue

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#42 18/6/10 11:54

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

I'm sure theres ways to balance it in MP, maybe make a slower lead up to it, like Mukade's teleport, give the player a chance to realize what's happening an react... or maybe slower recovery time after it's done


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#43 18/6/10 12:30

love_Oni
Member
From: Da Nang, Vietnam
Registered: 10/5/08

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Right, I agree. Both of your ideas are reasonable. But I think we don't have to it a disadvantage(s) to match with its advantages. We can just only remove its "no collision" advantage, right? smile


The Boy Who Knew Too Much tongue

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#44 18/6/10 14:37

Sharoduinn
Member
From: UK
Registered: 8/6/10

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

love_Oni wrote:

Right, I agree. When I was still playing the original Oni, I thought I was the best player ever sad, but, until I installed AE I realized that I used to attack recklessly without thinking anything at all, so I decided to learn dodging, blocking, diversifying my attacking moves, etc... I really want the MP will come up soon, so I can test my fighting skill and have chance to compete with other people big_smile

Aw, that's exactly how I felt before I tried AE out... hmm  It would indeed be interesting to compare players' skills and maybe even arrange some kind of 'Oni Championship' tournament in the future when/if MP is enabled tongue

Mukade wrote:

I'm sure theres ways to balance it in MP, maybe make a slower lead up to it, like Mukade's teleport, give the player a chance to realize what's happening an react... or maybe slower recovery time after it's done

Ay, that sounds pretty good to me big_smile


"Sorry about the mess"

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#45 18/6/10 18:33

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Thanks for those move lists! Huh, so most of Konoko's moves do 10 damage it looks like.

Nice, Mukade. Looking forward to the video.

On the ninja shadow dash: to me, it seems like it's actually pretty slow, and we'll probably be able to react to it pretty easily after a little while. And the moving-through-people aspect is really cool, so it seems like we should keep it if we can. I don't think we'll really know how powerful it is until we have multiplayer, though.

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#46 19/6/10 4:45

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 28/5/09
Website

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Lol, me and my friend used to do "Oni Tournaments" out on my trampoline, we'd just pretend to be Oni characters beating each other up and also including other random plot because we're crazy.  Good times.  smile


If we don't change the direction we're going, we'll likely end up where we're headed.

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#47 19/6/10 21:15

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Paff wrote:

Thanks for those move lists! Huh, so most of Konoko's moves do 10 damage it looks like.

Nice, Mukade. Looking forward to the video.

On the ninja shadow dash: to me, it seems like it's actually pretty slow, and we'll probably be able to react to it pretty easily after a little while. And the moving-through-people aspect is really cool, so it seems like we should keep it if we can. I don't think we'll really know how powerful it is until we have multiplayer, though.

I dearly hope it stays, I don't think I can get used to fighting without it  yikes  I use it as a very big part of my fighting style, like you say though, we won't know how balanced it is until we try it, but even then, I vote to balance it and not take it out big_smile

@Leus, the only other person I know that plays Oni is my brother... I wish I had people i could talk to face to face about Oni sad

Last edited by Mukade (19/6/10 21:16)


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#48 19/6/10 21:26

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Well, you certainly talk a lot about it online... you just joined the Thousand Post Club smile


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#49 19/6/10 23:31

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Did I now? Well that's awesome
*sheds a tear*
I want to thank all the people...
jk tongue
But it's a bit harder having discussions, such as the ones Paff seems to like starting. They're very text heavy, and what could be said in 10 minutes takes days to go through.


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#50 20/6/10 2:35

Paff
Member
From: Karatu, Arusha, Tanzania
Registered: 18/4/10
Website

Re: What disappointed people about Oni?

Whoah, congrats on 1000 posts.

Yeah, I need to do a better job of being on Skype. Text has its advantages, though; you have time to think things through carefully before saying them, and it leaves records behind that future people will be able to refer to.

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