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#1 20/8/09 3:03

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Wanting to make my own models

Hi,

kind of new around here and was just wondering a few things about making my own models.

I've tried importing into Maya with animation but I'm still getting the overlapping models. I couldn't figure out what was wrong so I'm wondering this.

Say I want to make my own model from scratch can I just model normally and then place them in the overlapping state and just export that out?

Also just wondering on poly count and texture sizes etc.
What I've gathered but not entirely sure about is

Polycount: is about 2,000 verts
Texture: can be up to 512x512 tga,png,dds

Say if i just overwrite the generic Konoko with my model will that be enough? or will I have to change the models for the animation files as well?

Sorry if it's been asked and explained before, I did some searching but didn't quite find everything

Mat

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#2 20/8/09 8:37

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Just a concept character I came up with, maybe some kind of communications person or a elite TCTF person but with no helmet, and female

oni_concept.jpg

May look good as a 2D drawing but in 3D in a old game engine probably won't turn out anything like it.

Oh yeah does oni support alpha channels? like transparency maps?

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#3 20/8/09 8:41

demos_kratos
Member
From: Russia, Volzhskiy
Registered: 13/8/08

Re: Wanting to make my own models

AFAIR, it does. But I didn't try it out. Just choose bgra32 format(or ARGB8888 in xml)

BTW. That looks cool smile

Last edited by demos_kratos (20/8/09 16:03)


Jente, du er deilig, du er lekker, ihvertfall nå når jeg drikker.
Baby, du har det som trengs, hva er sannsynligheten for at vi to hopper til sengs?
Kan du si meg det? Jeg er ikke så stø i sannsynlighetsregning.

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#4 20/8/09 9:02

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Lapis: Take a look at this page: http://wiki.oni2.net/AE:Importing_character_models

To import a new model, all you need is the 3D model itself. 19 parts, total polygon count of about 2,000 or less. The center of rotation and the parent/child relationship needs to be set for each part.   Finally, all the parts need to be aligned in the default pose (overlapping state), with all the rotations x,y,z set to zero.

What I have done, is to replace parts of an existing model with parts from a new model and import it to the game, see how it works (if I got the rotation, alignment, etc correct), and then continue.

That may sound complicated (well it is), but if you can focus on the model itself, we can help with getting into the game.

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#5 20/8/09 9:22

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

EdT wrote:

total polygon count of about 2,000 or less

*buzzer sounds* Wrong.  smile  Each of the 19 parts can have up to 2048 vertices, but we ask that you pretend the limit is 1024 vertices to allow room for a cel shading option.

Also, most parts don't need to have even a tenth that many vertices; if you get even remotely close to the limit of (19*1024) it will probably lag even a modern computer.  In my modeling attempts, I've found that a very good level of detail in the head can be gotten with about 600 vertices, and the face is the most complex part of the body, so things like upper arms and calves can probably make do with 100 verts, tops.

Also, remember that all polys need to be triangles.  No four(or more)-sided polys allowed.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#6 20/8/09 15:08

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

demos_kratos: Thanks, thank goodness for transparency or the hair is going to look poos

EdT: Thanks that all sounds good, I'm going to use the generic Konoko as the reference, she has some translate values but I'm guessing that's okay if the pivot point is at the right place and the rotations are frozen. Thanks!

Iritscen: oh sweeeeet I thought it was 2000verts for the whole thing. I think I will probably aim for about 3,000 tris since I think the generic Konoko i haveis about 3,300 tris. I agree I think the head is probably the most complex part and the most important to make it look good.

Cool Thanks everyone this really helps, my first time making game models, but I have a fair idea how. I'll probably start this tonight after I get back from Class. I'll probably do some drawings for idea first then get started

Probably will have more questions but, I gotta head to school now

Thanks again

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#7 20/8/09 15:13

myplea1
Member
From: Ottawa,Canada
Registered: 25/5/09

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Can't wait for you to finish. Good luck with it.


Awol

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#8 20/8/09 17:38

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

myplea1: Thanks, you and me both hoping to knock it out pretty fast but I'll probably have to do quite a lot of testing since I'm pretty sure I'll run into a few road blocks

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#9 20/8/09 17:51

Pierre
Member
Registered: 24/1/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

"if you get even remotely close to the limit of (19*1024) it will probably lag even a modern computer"

20.000 triangles is peanuts for a "modern computer" (modern graphics cards, really).

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#10 20/8/09 18:03

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Pierre: yeah 20,000 tris are peanuts now, but I think because this is an old engine even with a modern computer that can handle it the engine might not be able to handle it. But I'm not too sure about that, probably someone like Iritscen will be better suited to answer this.

The thing I want most but am 95% sure won't happen anytime soon or even if ever is if someone can some how write it to use normal maps. But again, I think it's just too far out of the engines reach.

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#11 20/8/09 18:12

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Lapis: Maybe you can build your new model piece by piece.  Start with a basic body that's close to what you want, then create a new head for it, swap the old head with the new.  Swap the old texture with the new one.  Just a thought.

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#12 20/8/09 18:46

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

EdT: That's what I was thinking of doing. I was going to use generic Konoko as a base to follow, so I would make my own models and just make sure the pivots are in the same place as where Konoko's ones were at. As for textures I'll just unwrap the UV's myself and just draw the textures myself and place them in.

Hopefully nothing wrong with that workflow

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#13 20/8/09 18:51

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Pierre: I have always been told by others in the community who are not on this forum to speak for themselves that it would be a bad idea to make a model that detailed.  I admit that I have never seen anyone directly test the limits of the engine, but I hope you're not forgetting Oni's poor use of graphics cards.  I might as well quote everyone's favorite engine hacker directly, I don't think he'd mind:

all 3D transforms (world/view/projection)...  all frustum clipping... texture coordinate animation for shields... texture coordinate generation for envmap... this is stuff that's done in software... and it's not even making use of advanced cpu instructions like SSE... vertex lights are done in software too... in the end the graphics card only fills triangles

Lapis: Unwrapping your own UVs sounds like a lot of work.  I was grateful to be able to use the existing UVs for the models I worked on -- until I borked them because I added a ton of polys and altered vertex connections without keeping an eye on the maps until it was too late.  Also, consistent UV mapping of the heads would be a good thing for the purposes of texture painters.  But I don't see how it's actually possible to preserve the UV map for an old head model while making a new head, so do you even have a choice?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#14 20/8/09 19:35

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Iritscen: no worries I'm pretty fast at unwrapping UV's. 3000 tris model isn't as my wasp which is currently 167,000 tris...........not looking forward to that. But you're right I don't think I have a choice since I will be making a new model anyway.

Hopefully sometime some one can manage to optimize the engine to do more. Would've been nice if some people who worked on Oni development team would give you guys some stuff to work with or something. But we don't have the stuff so talking about it and hoping ain't gonna make it happen.

i think I will probably need to ask some questions about getting transparency in later when I actually start.

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#15 21/8/09 7:50

Pierre
Member
Registered: 24/1/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

That's an interesting quote, Iritscen. Where does it come from? I admit I didn't hack the engine that much, I don't know what they do under the hood.

Not even using "TnL" is certainly not great. At the same time, don't forget that CPUs also got better smile I guess there's only one way to know for sure.

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#16 21/8/09 7:59

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

That was from Neo himself, hacker extraordinaire.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#17 21/8/09 8:10

dream996
Member
Registered: 15/3/09

Re: Wanting to make my own models

NEO ???i never seen hin ac in Oni Central Forum???


PunBB bbcode test

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#18 21/8/09 8:18

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

He doesn't have one.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#19 21/8/09 8:40

dream996
Member
Registered: 15/3/09

Re: Wanting to make my own models

why not ???i think he know quite a lot about oni _ and he could help out and have a talks about it =]


PunBB bbcode test

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#20 21/8/09 9:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

I think he prefers to focus on his projects, like OniSplit, rather than chat about the game.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#21 21/8/09 9:19

dream996
Member
Registered: 15/3/09

Re: Wanting to make my own models

i think it would be good if he is in here =]
_and i think he would have a little time to chat with the member who have used his project _ cool


PunBB bbcode test

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#22 21/8/09 10:46

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Well, we give him bug reports; that's basically all the feedback he's looking for.  It's a system that's worked well so far.  After all, OniSplit has a simple purpose with a clearly-defined scope, which is: allow the importing/exporting of Oni data.  So it's most efficient for him to just work on his own without the distraction of people asking him 1,001 questions about his program.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#23 21/8/09 21:43

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

hmmm modelling for games is harder than I thought I'm about 75% done with modelling the head already but it looks crap to me, so going to work on it some more. Currently at school on a saturday since I got some work to do, But I'll maybe post a work in progress when I get home since it's good practice to do.

I'm around the 500 vert area still need to do the hair. Hopefully I can keep it around 600 or so

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#24 22/8/09 0:06

dream996
Member
Registered: 15/3/09

Re: Wanting to make my own models

big_smile a u going to make a new model ???sounded cool =]
looking forward to see it  big_smile


PunBB bbcode test

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#25 22/8/09 21:07

Lapis
Member
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 12/8/09
Website

Re: Wanting to make my own models

Hello,

Well I've pretty much finished modelling the head, and so much for me trying to stick to around 600 verts hahaha I went way over and hit 950 verts but I'm still under 1024 for cell shading so phew.

I've unwrapped the whole head already and I've moved onto texturing now.

Oni_model_01.jpg

Oni_model_02.jpg

Here's one where I put a proxy smooth on the face to see how it would look

Oni_model_03.jpg

Verts: 953
Tris: 1469

Hopefully I can sort out transparency or their wouldn't be much point in me making the the hair the way I did.
I've decided to just do the head first and see If everything in the game works out the way I'm hoping before doing the rest. Just in case it doesn't work and I end up just wasting my time.

Wish me luck

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