BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Samer · 09/28/12 20:09

ltemplar I'm going to start working on Hammer moves now.
You said the first part of the heavy\super moves is a charging damaging particle ... I'm hoping it would be different from Barabas's .. maybe a green energy charging particle (with no health regeneration) can u make that ? maybe using konoko's powerup particle ? I'm bad at particles and will need your help if we're gonna keep the energy charging part of animation... I need to know before i modify the animation.

Last edited by Samer (09/28/12 23:09)

geyser · 09/29/12 08:09

Hi Samer, sorry for not coming back to you via email (about the characters), but I will probably do so now.
And hi ltemplar, nice to meet you at last. Your skills are the missing link that makes everything possible again. You rock

A couple of days ago EdT contacted me and told me about these threads (this one and the one about the Dark Future project), so I spent a night reading through them (without actually testing anything ingame, though). If I understood correctly, you guys might need some insight about what can and can't be done with Oni's engine, and about the ways in which the holes in Oni's plotline can be resolved.

And while I'm at it, maybe I can give you some constructive criticism and advice on specific projects. For example, just what BGi is or isn't, what its purpose is, how it should look, and in what ways it should interact with Konoko during Oni.

It would be nice if we could actually sit down and upgrade Oni, content- and story-wise, after all those years. Let's see if I can regain my skills/spirits and organize myself in a helpful project-oriented way.

Last edited by geyser (09/29/12 09:09)

ltemplar · 09/29/12 09:09

Nice to meet you too gayser. That's kind of you...but first we should talk what can and can't be done in oni engine.And what you guys really need.
As i wrote I can model objects..texture them , do animations, do particle work, even do weapons to some degree(no new sound yet).
What i can't do (for now) is to export them properly(I succeeded only in exporting weapons , and simple basic level).

Then this is what I propose regarding of course to BGI levels(or story flaws).
I can make entire level(models textures etc) and try to export it (No know yet if the entire building(huge one) with surrounding will be exported correctly -that must be confirmed first..if not i will send it to someone who can probably EdT).

Where I will need support is the scripting part. While i can create the simple scripts..like spawning enemies to some locations or trigger some events.. i can't do a really complicated scripts like thous presented in DAODAN (warehouse mod done by you and loser).

I red all possible articles on ONIgalore pages(thous with oni 2 too) so I Possibly know what BGI should supposed to be.

But what I want is not only upgrade Original oni story line witch thous levels, but also create more believable fighting environment. If you red about the proposed by me framework then you realize that this is only beginning. I want to create entire new weapons , characters(like heavy assault troopers, Mobile armor(GITS like or Appleseed), tanks, etc..I have even a huge gallery of models that can be used for this presuppose(unfinished models , or not used models from NEP or other projects- some are high some are low poly).Creating VTOL's .., creating new combat system(with personal weapons thing-because AI's inability to holster or upholster weapons -from known reasons)
Now i have some ideas that can be used..even created animations for them..but still that huge problems with exporting is this thing that Slow me down.
I also proposed in response to loser question new combat system in http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … hp?id=2430.
I also plan for konoko(later Mai)ability to become stronger(adding HP) or in possible future..adding new powers..This will look like this. At the beginning woman known as Konoko will be more relying on weapons (personal weapons.like pistols ,knives, etc) and armors (with gave her hp and protection but also slow her down a bit).When she end Rescue the Shinatama scenario she become more powerful in daodan abilities(she will lost her weapons..so the only thing she can use is her power but also she become faster do to armor removal(some of her daodan powers player will see in BGI first encounter- apartment level- abandoned warehouse-too)). The regional state building will be the hardest to change . Because you red abut what I debate with Samer ..then i only can tell that entering by front door is something that only complete Idiot/imbecile can do(her IQ is 220 if I remember correctly). Also i plan to add them some surprises when player decide to explore surroundings(really unpleasant surprises believe me-snipers will be the last of your concern).what i originally plan for this level is to go there by dark (when only security is there),avoid detection... go to this files(thats easy part) ...And when She is almost ready to copy them..not only "mysterious" hacker strip the files from her..but entire place become a well prepared trap by TCTF(we have TCTF Black ops in phase clocks storming in.. cutting off all possible escape routes.(This will be fun)..ESCAPE! , fighting will be rather hard or almost impossible. The TCTF black ops will start filing entire place with gases..heavy armored troops will start coming from VTOL's above the building...You must not only escape..but also capture the hacker..but how?This will be the best part..How SHE can escape.....One more thing .. The enemies will be coming constantly.So to long waiting/fighting/thinking could become fatal.

So what do you think about this?

Last edited by ltemplar (09/29/12 10:09)

s10k · 09/29/12 10:09

I may help you with the scripting, I'll be kinda busy however.

Samer · 09/29/12 11:09

Hi geyser, been waiting for your reply to the characters email. Since i sent it last, i have also updated casey, and released casual tankers, and hanako and blackops female cops .. If you want to give me your opinion about them you can do so either by email or on their corresponding threads here, hope you like them.
about the BGI, for the characters as you can see we already have character concepts that we are already working on, ltemplar and I, but of course your feedback is most welcome, However you'll see that we have changed some concepts since the black textured- halo inspired syndicate that come with the AE.. To more unique cyborgs, slds, robots, agents .. Sarai as a boss, executives will be in suits instead of coats .. The former coat wearing characters are now the agents .. And the color scheme is green, white and black.
Some characters are already done just need some animations ..
Sarai, hydra, hammer, agents .. Some are work in progress typhoon, robots, troopers, the twin assasins (jubei and akane) etc ..
So for me these are the characters concepts and look that I'd like to make / am making. As far as how the BGI relate to the story or how to insert them in the plot, i don't have much to say,I like ltemplar's ideas about the apartment level and BGI HQ as I've said earlier .. As long as these characters are utilized I'm happy.
I can't help with scripts or levels .. Only characters and character textures and some animation modifications, bul ltemplar obviously surpasses me in that.
As far as modifying\updating the original game, as ltemplar suggests, i'm not personally interested in modifying the original game that much, i'm up for adding rather than modifying the original. But of course i admire the project and hope ltemplar can make it
@ltemplar i still need ur reply for the particle for the hammer ? Can u make it or shall i remove that part from the animation, cz i can't / don't know how to make the particle.

Last edited by Samer (09/29/12 12:09)

ltemplar · 09/29/12 12:09

I'm now pretty busy with apartment furnitures..and inside parts. I can however spent some free time to work on prt..but:
-First tell me how you want thous particles presented.
-In my concept.. the particles will be daodan like(green or other color). Something that kill if you get near them(see Barabbas regenerating particles..or loser concept of Barabbas exploding earth quaker concept). You only need emitter that will be lunched for x seconds wanted particle.
-So first define me what prt you want. Then i can send you part.. but adding it to character will be up to you.And if you don't like this concept then make this attack shorter.
It's your call.

PS.Any help with scripting will be appreciated.

Last edited by ltemplar (09/29/12 12:09)

Samer · 09/29/12 13:09

mm well i don't know if it's possible ..
a particle that appears as if he's recharging like barabas, but instead of the circular shape and color changing particle it will be smaller .. only green colored and has some of the ninjas contrail shape (electric like) + some of the orbs that appear around mutant muro or grey fury chenille by paradox .. just as a quick warning sign-and visual effect not highly damaging only slight damage, the actual move will be the damaging one .. but u'll need to test it on any character cz if it doesn't work i don't know how to fix it .. even if i look at those mods i don't think i'd understand how it's done.
but if u're busy right now and that would take a lot of time .. I guess we can keep the energy based attacks for the typhoon for example .. cz there are more important stuff than this like texturing the robot and ur bgi trooper.

ltemplar · 09/29/12 14:09

Well..do as you wish..I really don't have head for this right now.

Update on apartment..

The outside .. but still don't know it will be fitting in oni engine(but it don't heave 400 meters so this should be ok only 200 100 high..etc)
As you can see I added more than one apartment in one wing (red is the area where Konoko will be placed) . You can also see the build in garage- i putted Truck there(blue box)-some of it's underground-this part is not ready yet.
Also I have some question.. We can do moving elevators, but we can use elevators , in different way(they are disabled- but we can use elevator shaft to go to lover floors for example- jumping from one elevator to another)... Now is this concept is ok for you or should I change it?

renders.

Building.

The furnitures.

The chessboard tlike texture is for UVW check. The uncolored is base texture(Without UVW). Textured you know what.
Thous furnitures will be presented in more than her apartment. I only change for them texture color(this will give this Unification fill- WGC is watching you- remember?)

tell me what you think..

Last edited by ltemplar (09/29/12 15:09)

Samer · 09/29/12 14:09

the furniture looks great ..
the building in my opinion is unrealistically and unnecessarily huge, but looks nice.

Well..do as you wish..I really don't have head for this.

that's nice. You asked me to describe the particle I wanted, I did and I added if it will take you much time and effort than we can do without it. Kinda of a rude reply don't you think ?

Last edited by Samer (09/29/12 14:09)

ltemplar · 09/29/12 15:09

Sorry...But rude no...Simply I mean that I don't have time right now to test it.
When I will find enough free time then I can make thous prt.

Well you all guys voted for more Futuristic look...so don't tell me now that this is unrealistic..it's all in one(future concept not today's).There are 3 apartment in one section.On the back are Elevators..and shops..On the roof we have landing zone for VTOL's ...On the lover parts you have garages (some are underground)The roof area isn't finished yet(there will be more)..And this is matching Original oni Building layout's (see surrounding's in regional state building level)

Last edited by ltemplar (09/29/12 15:09)

Samer · 09/29/12 15:09

i didn't say anything about the futuristic look in the beginning what i said exactly was that it would be enough to have 1 side of the building .. i don't mean about the look that is unrealistic i mean the size, the size is enormous for a building to live in .. if u are going to have a final battle on the roof for example it's too huge .. it should be same size as tctf regional hq or regional state building in my opinion. that's only my opinion .. if u remove the extra ones to the side and just keep the column of apartments above and below konoko's that would be more suitable ..

ltemplar · 09/29/12 15:09

"if u remove the extra ones to the side and just keep the column of apartments above and below konoko's"

I don't get it. Could you be more precise in what to change?

Samer · 09/29/12 16:09

The building now is 3 columns of apartments next to each other right ? There are 3 stacks (columns) if u remove the 2 columns of apartments and just keep one, it would be more convenient and in sync with the size of buildings in the game. (I'll post a screenshot of what i mean tomorrow)

Last edited by Samer (09/29/12 16:09)

ltemplar · 09/29/12 16:09

Sync with the ..what.. no no no.. I will post you the screen shot of the in game apartments building.

See? I don't think so that my building is so huge in comparison to thous..

Last edited by ltemplar (09/29/12 16:09)

geyser · 09/29/12 20:09

Hello everybody. It seems it will be hard for me to keep up with the discussion. It's only been a dozen posts since mine, and I already feel dizzy just reading through them. Anyway, here are my two cents.

As much as I admire Samer's characters and other more or less foreign content that we've managed to bring into Oni, my ambition has always been to enhance and redefine Oni itself - not in the sense of optional items, but as a consistent upgrade. I am happy that Ltemplar has a similar ambition, and my constructive criticism will go mainly in his direction (I don't agree with him on everything, however).

I appreciate the work that's been done on BGi in my absence, but the character lineup needs to be trimmed down. The whole concept needs to be simple and self-consistent, and it needs to be at home in Oni. Freaks like the Hammer, in my opinion, don't belong with a serious paramilitary such as BGi. He's a Syndicate enforcer if anything (Bertram Navarre, perhaps? a mad scientist enhanced biologically and/or cybernetically). Female bosses in skirts or catsuits - I'm really not sure. Combat SLDs? cool enough, but very unlikely at the time of Oni's events (and, correct me if I'm wrong, Hydra is essentially Hikari, and that's definitely Oni 2 territory, way after Oni). Old-school BGi assassins? I'm not sure either (Jubei and Akane both use the chest of a Halo Spartan, for a start; and I'd rather develop the idea that BGi's assassins ended up under Mukade's command, along with Kojiro).
So, in my view, Jubei, Akane and the Hammer should be envisioned as Syndicate assets if at all. BGi should be less like a zoo and more like an army - raw firepower, phase cloaks, deadly melee, mines, etc.

On the other hand, I wouldn't beef up the TCTF at all. Maybe just a few more guns whenever they are expecting the visit of rogue Konoko, but otherwise the TCTF is good as it is. The heavy gear belongs with the army-like BGi: "guard dogs" and hovering sentries, Iron Demons and mini-tanks, VTOLs and heavy troopers - that's all BGi stuff. We can't make TCTF into Section 9, ESWAT or AD Police, or it wouldn't be Oni anymore. Even in BGi, new assets should probably be used sparingly and selectively: we can't just drop spider tanks and power suits into Oni, and expect them to look at home there. If we're not careful, then nstead of rationalizing Oni and making it more believable, we'll just contaminate it with randomly cool-looking influences from other anime and/or cyberpunk titles. And it'll be an awful mess.

I may change my mind after I look at Ltemplar's full range of models-so-far, but right now I think that the following units are both necessary and sufficient to make BGi into a viable Oni component:
*"guard dogs", hovering sentries, mini-tanks and trip mines - for area denial. Self-destruction and suicide attack possible. Guard dogs and hovering sentries are essentially game-ready, but need tuning.
*Iron Demon - walking gunship, specifically built for dealing with Mutant Muro. Virtually invincible, except with some kind of trick. Essentially game-ready, but needs tuning, and an appropriate setting.
*heavy weapons (handheld) - my placeholders for those were "portable turrets" (turret heads mounted on the base of a Wave Motion Cannon, with higher ammo capacity and firing rate). HERE
*more heavy weapons - "Q-31 railgun" and/or microwave beam (similar to Sturmanderung pulse) and/or electricity (weaponized lighting bolt or power line from ACC). Models and/or texturing needed.
*military robots (based on the model known as "heavy trooper") - Elite-sized or Murzilla-sized, fight with either heavy weapons or melee. Self-destruction and suicide attack possible. HERE
*actual armored troopers (not robots) - cyborgs in armor, more or less agile or powerful. My placeholders were combinations of Barabas armor and Mukade armor (HERE). Something original is welcome, but it makes sense for BGi armor to look like Barabas's or Mukade's, since both can be seen as BGi legacy, especially Mukade.
*executives or agents without armor (both male and female) - not supposed to engage the Daodan threat directly unless backed up by lots of heavy stuff. Featured mostly in cutscenes.
*dropships and gunships (VTOL) - my placeholder for that was an upside-down spider tank (the one with a flamethrower, a Turbosquid freebie), but it wasn't too convincing, so I'd welcome another design. There was THIS, too, but that's just stolen from NGE (it has a nice cartoony look, though). I'll show you the spider tank when and if I find it.
*some appropriate settings in which Konoko can encounter BGi and have a good fight with them. Either new levels, or redesigned sections of old ones. Either a story that fits into Oni's or one that stands alone as some kind of mod or non-canon tot-conv. But ideally it would become canon. More on the settings (levels) in my next message.

So, character-wise, I guess I'm asking for a textured "heavy trooper" (military droid, as available HERE and HERE), and then maybe human troopers (either inspired by Barabas/Mukade or not). The Hammer I'd regard as a Syndicate enforcer (or mad scientist). The mini-tank, along with the guard dogs and hovering sentries, are nice BGi assets (BGi, not TCTF), but someone (me?) needs to have a good look at how to make them work as 100% bug-free characters. Power suits are welcome (again, for BGi, not TCTF), as well as the dropship, and pretty much everything from Ltemplar's gallery. Actually, Ltemplar, it would be great to see your whole portfolio, so see if you can set up an oni2.net account and upload everything there: screenshots, models, Oni plugins and AE files, anything. Or maybe just a showcase on the wiki. Or, if you don't want to spoil the surprise for those who will play the tot-conv eventually, you can send that stuff to just a few of us in private (although I have no idea how you'd choose whom to show the stuff to).

My email address is on my wiki page, or you can email me via the forum - that works too.

Last edited by geyser (09/29/12 20:09)

geyser · 09/29/12 21:09

Now, the setting of Konoko's encounters with BGi. Konoko's apartment will allow for some nice cutscenes, that's for sure, but to set up a fight in such tight environments is crazy. Remember that Oni's view is in third person, from quite far away. Realistically small rooms and corridors mean that you'll have walls blocking the vision most of the time - depending on where you look and what you're doing (backpedaling, jumping, etc) the camera will easily go through walls and ceilings. If you're lucky, Jell'O(TM) will kick in and you'll be able to see through the walls (note that this will allow the player to spot enemies in adjacent rooms, even if the player doesn't actually want to cheat at all). If you're not lucky, then some quads or triangles will fail to become transparent, and this will partly obscure the action.

That said, Ltemplar's take on the apartment building reminds me of a guy from the Russian forums named elex. When he joined the (Russian) community, his first proposal was to build a whole block of apartment buildings (you can see one such building in my DAE2AKEV tutorial, screenshot HERE). We didn't have apartments to put in there, so it was more like a construction site but now it's coming together with Ltemplar's idea, sort of.

I think there are three levels in Oni that are well suited for setting up a wide variety of BGi encounters (as a proof of concept, first) : the dream level, the Regional State Building, and the TCTF HQ.
*The dream level is good because it's non-linear and abstract, so any assets will look equally "not-at-home" there, even spider tanks and mecha (it's a dream, after all; and in Konoko's dreams BGi can be anything).
*The Regional State Building also has a highly non-linear layout, and pre-beta information suggests that it used to be the placeholder for BGI HQ at some point. Of course we can make a new building eventually, but as a warm-up it's best to work with an existing level, and see what kind of challenging situations we can set up, using the BGi troops, and how Oni-fitting the whole concept is, in general.
*The TCTF building makes sense not only as a proof-of-concept (it's a large building with many different spaces, and the parking lot is highly non-linear - almost perfect for an Iron Demon fight). It also makes sense plotwise. My idea was that Konoko would emerge from Griffin's bunker, only to find that the building is infested by BGi troops. She'd fight them in every way imaginable, and then she'd steal a VTOL and fly it to Muro's compound. Again, the advantage of using an existing level to test BGi troops is that stuff like doors and stairs is already all set up, and there's an elevator to experiment with, too.

If you feel like making a new level, I suggest you look at stuff like the "Hexagon factory" or "Red City (martian colony)". Both need pathfinding and geometry tweaks, but they're good assets, both of them.
*The first is more like a military compound, with lots of halls, staircases and corridors. A bit of a maze on the whole, but some areas are very nice and Oni-fitting. Either BGi HQ or a Sturmanderung variant.
*The second is an appealingly realistic design, and works well not only as a domed "colony" on a terraforming planet (or on a heavily polluted Earth), but also as a city district in Oni's context (it has quite a lot of housing, by the way, so whatever work you do on realistic apartments and other furniture - that work is definitely not lost). If you modify the rooms of the "colony" a bit, it can easily be turned into a secret compound (again, either BGi HQ or an alternate version of Muro's Sturmanderung - it really depends on the inspiration). In any case, it's hugely non-linear and an ideal level for testing new content.

I don't have much free time myself, but I would volunteer for trimming the geometry of both these levels and setting up the pathfinding properly. Texturing and furniture will be up to Ltemplar, if he agrees.

Last edited by geyser (09/29/12 21:09)

geyser · 09/29/12 21:09

Oh, and about the workings of the Oni engine - if you have specific questions, just ask. My technical answers are much less verbose than those two huge posts up there.

P.S. Don't get me wrong - I think all of Ltemplar's stuff is awesome. Love the apartment, love the building, love the mini-tank, and all the more or less heavy armor stuff.
The problem, now, is to make all of this into something playable. First, experimental proof-of-concept levels, then (ideally) something that fits Oni and enhances its canon.

Last edited by geyser (09/29/12 21:09)

Samer · 09/29/12 21:09

Hi geyser.

Well I'm going to be honest with you. With all most respect of course, but you have been away for a long time .. Mean time I have adapted some BGI characters such as the hydra, Sarai and hammer .. This is my vision of the BGI.
you may have a different vision, that's ok .. But I'll be working to make my vision of them. You of course can work on making your vision as well.

All the data that was provided about the BGI is your own opinion\vision right ? Was it based on any data provided by Oni or original developers ? even if, we are free to modify I believe.

about hikari .. I don't see an Oni2 in the making any time soon, and i made it from scratch, i got inspired by the photo of the model doesn't mean it's hikari.
the photo has been there for years.
about the hammer .. You see him as a mad scientist, I see him as an advanced cyborg.
about jubei and akane as i pointed out in the email and here they need a major update and outfit change.
about hydra as sld .. Tankers ? Shinatama ?
about Sarai .. Well why not executives in black coats didn't make much sense to me.

ur vision of bgi is an advanced form of the syndicate or black colored mixed and matched body parts - syndicate.. It's not mine however, I see them as said technologically advanced with UNIQUE characters, these include Sarai, Hammer and Hydra and Jubei and Akane In addition to what you said : heavy troopers to me those are armor suited agents rather than robots.
If that's a circus freak show to some then be it, there are others who will like it.

So to be clear, though I respect your opinion, your concept, and the effort you once put into it, I'm not going to adapt someone else's vision .. However if you coined the term BGI and wouldn't want others to use it for other concepts, I can name them something else and make them a custom level and appearances, with ltemplar's or others help hopefully, still ..
The robot model is urs and Ed's so I'm not going to use it without permission. so ltemplar if u are texturing it for my sake you don't have to.

So i'm not going to ditch the hammer, the hydra, Sarai and other concepts just cause they don't fall into ur vision of them.

and I believe ltemplar also should have his vision and concept, if he wants to modify original oni and tctf, he's free to do so. Whether we like it or not, others might .. It's his mod and as he said before others can use the models and other stuff he makes for other mods, concepts.

So i think it's best if we HELP each other acheive our own visions and concepts, not force it on each other, then if someone (you?) wants to use them to make his vision .. Example after ltemplar releases his tctf characters .. If u want to use them as bgi sure .. If u want to use-modify any of the characters I'll make or Ed's guard dogs or or .. then you surely can do so.

Last edited by Samer (09/29/12 22:09)

geyser · 09/29/12 22:09

You're right, Samer, I have no right to talk in these terms about your projects, or about Ltemplar's. It's almost as if I'm pretending to be the project lead of an indie development team that doesn't even exist. Not as a collaborative team, anyway.

Of course, you can have your zoo-ish BGi, and Ltemplar can have his bad-ass TCTF, and Ed can have a ancient Chinese level, and I - ...well, I'll go straight back to real life, I suppose. Because obviously I'm not going to start yet another "personal" mod. I may have the skills, and the inspiration, but I definitely don't have the time. "Help each other achieve our own visions and concepts" - well, I guess Oni and I just don't work that way. I can't just shut up and "do my own thing". Never have, never will.

I think of BGi as a seriously powerful federating concept that can consolidate Oni's canon and enhance it hugely (and apparently Ltemplar has his own "consolidating" ambition that is similar to mine). It is in that context that all my criticism applies. It doesn't apply if you think of BGi as "just a mod" and/or your own self-expression. Obviously. If you want to have your personal BGi mod, you can. But if you want my advice, about the BGi concept or Oni in general, then I'll give it to you.

I advised you against combat SLDs because Shinatama is unstable and Tankers are dumb. The free will of an SLD is such a complicated issue (as illustrated by Shinatama) that it would be unwise for BGi to rely on highly autonomous SLDs such as the hydra. Actually, I would give it an extra twist and show that even Tankers aren't reliable (e.g., hint at the fact that they occasionally attack their masters).
I advised you against the Hammer because it looked to me that he was turning out as even more of a pointless freak than Barabas (and that's saying something). With the model that Ltemplar gave you, he may still fit in well at BGi, but it'll all depend on the horns and spikes, I guess, and on how dramatic his combat pattern is. If it's deadly and efficient, then why not. But if I were BGi, I'd just use guns.
I have nothing against Sarai, she's one of your best characters, and she's quite at home in Oni, but I feel an encounter between her and Konoko is rather improbable. She and the agents/executives would mostly stand on the sidelines while Konoko gets hurt by all kinds of robots, cyborgs and drones. If Konoko manages to go for the command center, of raids the BGi HQ, then she may encounter Sarai, yes.
The "heavy trooper" can not be a human being. Just look at his joints and arm structure. It's a full cyborg if anything (human brain, mechanical body). But I think it's nice to draw the parallel between that model and the "ninjabots" already present in Oni - one eyed, tabi-footed, three-fingered, and overall quite similar, don't you think? That's why I think they should be robots (remote-controlled, perhaps).

Oh, and when I say "Oni 2", it doesn't mean an actual game. It's more like an awareness of all the storywise projects spawned by the community while I was around and how they all fit together (my wish). Hikari belongs to a timeline that doesn't occur until long after Oni. If you want to take that character and model it for Oni, that's fine. But using her in context, as a BGi unit - just because she's a cool asset - that's zoo-ish and disrespectful to the original Hikari concept, and to its guardians (such as myself). That last bit isn't serious, of course, but do you really need those Hikari-like Hydra? That's the question.
That said, I'm flexible. If needed, we can always come with a workaround and say that the BGi Hydra did exist, and that Hikari is Shinatama's incarnation in a Hydra body. That would probably work, too.
I'm just not too happy with the name Hydra, because I've always thought Hydra was a nice name for the un-beheadable Council that ruled the Syndicate before Muro rose to power. Oh well, whatever

Peace.

Last edited by geyser (09/29/12 22:09)

Lithium · 09/29/12 22:09

This isn't going to end up well...

geyser · 09/29/12 22:09

Nah, the very worst scenario from here on out is that I'll go back to sleep as if nothing happened
Or maybe I'll start doing something "generic", like setting up levels for people to test their stuff in.
It's about time we had playable versions of Hexagon and Colony, and the Tower, and some others.

Last edited by geyser (09/29/12 23:09)

Lithium · 09/29/12 23:09

Lol I want to see use of the Hexagon badly. So much potential in such a huge level

Samer · 09/29/12 23:09

geyser wrote:

You're right, Samer, I have no right to talk in these terms about your projects, or about Ltemplar's. It's almost as if I'm pretending to be the project lead of an indie development team that doesn't even exist. Not as a team, anyway.

well don't know what to say except .. agree. I personally didn't ask for a project manager, but feedback - suggestions are always welcome from all other users\modders. And u had some great suggestions of course, My response is to the characters part.

Of course, you can have your zoo-ish BGi, and Ltemplar can have his bad-ass TCTF, and Ed can have a ancient Chinese level, and I - ...well, I'll go straight back to real life, I suppose. Because obviously I'm not going to start yet another "personal" mod. I may have the skills, and the inspiration, but I definitely don't have the time. "Help each other achieve our own visions and concepts" - well, I guess Oni and I just don't work that way.

well u can call them zooish i can call green shinatamatoo zombish, executives a cheap knock off badly colored pix-elated scientists .. that won't lead us anywhere .. anywhere nice at least.
and I believe u called Severed textures which most of us think are awesome .. "not very lively last time I checked" (in the email when i asked you about shinatama too) .. so obviously we differ in tastes.
ouh yes unique BGi, bad ass TCTF, and an OLD CHINA level in oni .. imagine that making new fun mods that other users enjoy and come back for .. hope it doesn't anger the Oni Gods though.
we all have the passion and the inspiration we wouldn't be here if we didn't ... And skills we are learning as we go no one was born with them. and again all these mods when available need slight modification to adapt to others visions, and no one said we won't help with that, but that doesn't mean we'll drop everything and our concepts. Sorry if that doesn't fit into your vision of writing concepts or pitching ideas that others will blindly follow and make come true, this is a community as i understand. don't know how the old forum worked :\ but "forums and I just don't work that way"

I can't just shut up and "do my own thing". Never have, never will.

and about my personality: to quote you from your gally importing tutorial .. I'm not your .. You know the rest.
You are a modder, I am a modder too .. You have good\great concepts .. Others do too. You have been around here much before any of us and true we owe a lot of the knowledge we know now to you .. however we are making those concepts come to life .. example is casey, kojiro, james

I think of BGi as a seriously powerful federating concept that can consolidate Oni's canon and enhance it hugely (and apparently Ltemplar has his own "consolidating" ambition that is similar to mine). It is in that context that all my criticism applies. It doesn't apply if you think of BGi as "just a mod" and/or your own self-expression.

As you said YOU think of the BGi as ... etc .. that is your own-self expression as well. was there like a vote what the BGi are ? I surely wasn't part of it. as I've seen there are different interpretations of konoko's outfit or level textures or or ..

Obviously. If you want to have your personal BGi mod, then by all means be my guest. But if you want my advice, about the BGi concept or Oni in general, I'll give it to you.

thanks

I advised you against the Hammer because it looked to me that he was turning out as even more of a pointless freak than Barabas (and that's saying something).

again that's your opinion, to each his own.

The "heavy trooper" can not be a human being. Just look at his joints and arm structure. It's a full cyborg if anything (human brain, mechanical body).

obviously u didn't read the discussion well .. the former called trooper is now a robot not a trooper, and as ltemplar suggested and i agreed
he is going to make human troopers.
the robot will be an extra addition, as well as this : http://thefree3dmodels.com/stuff/charac … 4-1-0-1497 which i'm going to release in a day or 2. however since it's your model you could of course decide what you want to name it .. trooper or robot or not use it at all .. as it needs textures and the uv maps are messed up.

But I think it's nice to draw the parallel between that model and the "ninjabots" already present in Oni - one eyed, tabi-footed, three-fingered, and overall quite similar, don't you think? That's why I think they should be robots (remote-controlled, perhaps).

yeah applies to the model i found .. even more i think.

Oh, and when I say "Oni 2", it doesn't mean an actual game. It's more like an awareness of all the storywise projects spawned by the community while I was around and how they all fit together (my wish). Hikari belongs to a timeline that doesn't occur until long after Oni. If you want to take that character and model it for Oni, that's fine. But using her in context, as a BGi unit - just because she's a cool asset - that's zoo-ish and disrespectful to the original Hikari concept, and to its guardians (such as myself).

there are guardians ? .. i asked before i used it and I'll ask owldreamer again if he doesn't agree on using it as INSPIRATION, then i'll change some textures .. and keep it a photo on the wiki till that magical day when it comes to life.

That last bit isn't serious, of course, but do you really need those Hikari-like Hydra? That's the question.

oops read this too late .. well we don't really NEED any mods at all ..

That said, I'm flexible. If needed, we can always come with a workaround and say that the BGi Hydra did exist, and that Hikari is Shinatama's incarnation in a Hydra body. That would probably work, too.

goody

I'm just not too happy with the name Hydra, because I've always thought Hydra was a nice name for the un-beheadable Council that ruled the Syndicate before Muro rose to power. Oh well, whatever

well the Hydra is a common name, it's used in marvel universe as an 'evil' organization. I might change my mind about the name before release though.

Last edited by Samer (09/30/12 09:09)

Samer · 09/30/12 03:09

Anyway ..
back on topic, ltemplar the building seemed too huge in the screenshot but, if it's same size as buildings in regional state building level, then sorry my bad, i got to say again how impressive the furniture textures are. When u make them do u save as psd ? If u could sometime while u're making the textures could u save one as a psd file with all the layers and effects and such, and i'll take a look at it (study it) to help improve my texturing techniques .. The bed sheet with the wrinkles for example.

Last edited by Samer (09/30/12 03:09)

ltemplar · 09/30/12 03:09

Yes I can send you PSD files..but I already merged some of thous Layers, only keeping needed(for color change or modify some parts prepossess)Making wrinkles is easy..You simply need firs create shadows then light(rug not smoothed) then amply smart blur i high settings to desired part/layer.then change the brush to smaller size and only add small details here and there. Thats all.I wrote you about this method some time ago.

Last edited by ltemplar (09/30/12 03:09)

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#126 09/28/12 20:09

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

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Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

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