Updated "Konokö Payne" version

geyser · 02/27/08 12:02

Yes, and you seriously think rerecording Shinatama's voice is a good idea. I know. You're a strange guy

Iritscen · 02/27/08 12:02

If we could find a decent amateur, sure, I'd buy her a mic myself. Well, let's not get off-topic in Pierre's thread. There's no girls around here, so it's a moot point. But yeah, once she was done with Shinatama I'd get her right on re-recording the Furies too.

geyser · 02/27/08 12:02

"Well, let's not get off-topic in Pierre's thread." No problem.
"There's no girls around here, so it's a moot point." O RLY?

"once she was done with Shinatama I'd get her right on re-recording the Furies too."
Oh yeah, right, like it's not enough to have scientists sounding like Muro in chapter 13.
About Shinatama, I think it'll be enough to "chipmunkize" the original sounds a little...
And no, there's nothing wrong with the Furies (except in Konoko Payne)... Leave it

Iritscen · 02/27/08 13:02

"There's no girls around here, so it's a moot point." O RLY?

I suppose I've seen some drop by from time to time, but I was thinking of all the regulars being guys. Hey, if some girls wants to audition for the part, would you be open to putting a new voice in the Edition? They'd have to pass our rigorous standards, of course.

"once she was done with Shinatama I'd get her right on re-recording the Furies too."
Oh yeah, right, like it's not enough to have scientists sounding like Muro in chapter 13.

??? As a certain Agent once said, "Is he serious? I can't tell when he's being serious."

Fwiw, I still don't notice any scientists sounding like Muro; I guess I need to spend more time talking to them.

About Shinatama, I think it'll be enough to "chipmunkize" the original sounds a little...

Are you referring to Alvin and the Chipmunks? I guess they're international somehow. That's scary. Anyway, I don't have a problem with the pitch of her voice, or the quality of her voice, which is soft and pleasant, it's the fact that she couldn't act her way out of a paper bag (sorry, Anne Bowerman). No filters can fix that. But maybe we have different issues with her voice; I thought we both heard the same problems.

And no, there's nothing wrong with the Furies (except in Konoko Payne)... Leave it

My gosh, man, have you HEARD their death sound lately? See my Good vs. Evil video for my thoughts on that. It's horrifying. The other soundbites merely make them sound like they've been hittin' the 'roids, but that one makes it sound like they suffer from 'roids. Yes, the other kind. But since they're not as important to the game as Shinatama, I wouldn't seriously suggest trying to replace them.

Pierre · 03/01/08 07:03

Sorry for the delay, was in Sweden for work.

First, the bad bits:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you already reported all of them for the last release. And in the one before. And maybe before again. But as I wrote: "nothing really new here". It is useless to report the same issues over and over again. They will be fixed whenever I find the time for that.

The blood puddles don't really make the "GAME OVER"s any less annoying

That's because the "game over" didn't change at all since last release.

The guns are still way too deadly

Because nothing changed in that code.

but I guess your answer to that is that we're supposed to use the powerups (shield, invisibility) or Daodan specials

No, the answer is that gunfight is not tuned / tweaked at all. I'm still not fully done with the melee code, many weapons are missing, etc.

The smart camera is really nasty

Again, no changes since last time here.

The controls are still lacking. Namely, because of your higher tolerance on the timing keypresses, it's not unusual to be "trapped" in a long combo, at the mercy of AI.

Yes, that's by design, to make the combos easier than in Oni. I'm not trying to exactly replicate the Oni controls, so this will probably not change soon.

The dramatic double-tap dashing is still totally unusable

Because once again you focus on things that just didn't change in this release.

The animation system lacks stuff like sliding and turning

Sigh. Yes, I know. And they're not here yet because they were not essential, and it's still work-in-progress. What's going on man, you're a bit annoying today You could say things like "hey, you added the taunts!". But no, you focus on the missing bits. I -know- they're missing. I played Oni as well...

The animation system lacks stuff like sliding and turning

Me neither.

Concerning the sounds, the Furies still sound like grannies

(Yawn) Yes, yes, I know, it's on the 93Kb TODO list. With a lot of other things. And I mean, a LOT. Funnier things. More interesting things. I regretfully have to report that I don't care much about the small differences in the Furies' voices So, yeah, it will happen at some point.

The punches and kicks still sound awfully repetitive and cheesy. Is there any reason why you didn't use Oni's combat sounds for those?

Now THIS one is new I think. I don't remember you saying this before. I thought I -was- using Oni's combat sounds for those?!?!? I'm interested in this one very much so feel free to give more details. I'll have a look ASAP otherwise.

Thanks for the Appleseed cut, I'll try it. The "final fight" is supposed to be a lot better than this, in a different place, with a two-parts combat (Barabas on ground, Barabas in air). Again, takes way too long to develop and I don't have too much time for KP.

With the jump-over-obstacles hack is gone, the AI in the final room look pretty stupid whenever the consoles are in their way.

I know. But the hack made them jump too much in other places, and look equally stupid. I need to find a middleground solution. No idea yet. Maybe just fixing the pathfinding mesh would help. But creating it in MAX is an insanely frustrating process, slow, buggy, crashy, it's a nightmare.

Last but not least, something is very wrong with the lasers now. They kill less consistently and will often leave the characters "undead".

That is weird and not normal. Will have a look.

I never asked you where you got it from, whether you adapted Oni's in any manner or set up your own from scratch

It's fully mine, redone from scratch.

Maybe have a look at OniGame's source if you want to emulate Oni's character animation perfectly (OniGame has basically reimplemented all of Oni's Totoro in C#).

Do you have a link? Might be useful. (I may have downloaded that before but it was on a different machine in a different country so forget it!)

- Pierre

Pierre · 03/01/08 08:03

Ok, here: http://www.codercorner.com/blog/?p=29

I don't have time for it. Feel free to provide me with modified Fury sound files, and I'll happily use them.

*grin*

- Pierre

Pierre · 03/01/08 09:03

I know Jell'O cam is hard to implement because of those separate pipelines you mentioned, but surely plain culling (like in Tekken mode) would look better than this.

Here are the technical reasons why it is not simple:

- the system currently uses portals. The starting "region" in the portal algorithm is the one where the camera is located. This is mandatory to get proper culling.

- if I let the camera go through a wall, it means the camera ends up e.g. in region 1, while the character is in region 2. If there are no portals between the two, region 2 will be culled and the character will not be visible anymore.

- pretend we fix the previous issue with a hack. Now both regions are visible. In the "Tekken mode" (I assume you mean "demo mode"), there's no actual "region 1". So the camera ends up in the void, nowhere. The characters are visible because the walls around the room get backface culled. Now, if there would be a "region 1", it would be visible, and its walls would block the view. We wouldn't see the characters anymore.

- but ok, hack number 2: don't render at all whatever objects are in the way. Well, that would only remove objects intersected by the single camera raycast colliding against obstacles. That raycast could miss another object that happens to hide the character(s).

- sigh, hack 3: drop the raycast and switch to a more expensive capsule test. Don't render whatever intersects the capsule. Works better, but this time maybe too much. Objects sharing the same material can be located in the same vertex buffer, rendered using the same DrawPrimitive call, to go faster. So now the objects blocking the view disappear, but some others in unrelated places, anywhere on the screen, disappear as well.

- SIGH. Hack 4: do a much, much, much more expensive capsule test, go down to the touched triangle level, reorganize the index buffers so that those touched triangles are removed. OK, it finally works, but then all your static geometry now has dynamic index buffers. Uh, wait. We really don't want that.

- Hack 5: I don't even know what do to after that, but in the end reviews would still complain, as they did in Oni, that the camera is unfinished / bad / whatever.

So, I told you: this one is painful to implement.

- Pierre

Pierre · 03/01/08 13:03

The punches and kicks still sound awfully repetitive and cheesy. Is there any reason why you didn't use Oni's combat sounds for those?

To follow-up on this: the punch & kick sounds are defined in KP_SharedScript.txt, like this:

SoundType    EnemyPunch
SoundFile    hvy_arm1.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm2.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm3.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm4.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm5.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm6.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm7.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm8.wav
SoundFile    hvy_arm9.wav

SoundType    EnemyKick
SoundFile    hvy_leg1.wav
SoundFile    hvy_leg2.wav
SoundFile    hvy_leg3.wav
SoundFile    hvy_leg4.wav
SoundFile    hvy_leg6.wav
SoundFile    hvy_leg7.wav
SoundFile    hvy_leg8.wav
SoundFile    hvy_leg9.wav

SoundType    KonokoPunch
SoundFile    kon_flip1.wav
SoundFile    kon_flip2.wav
SoundFile    kon_flip3.wav
SoundFile    kon_flip4.wav
SoundFile    kon_flip5.wav

SoundType    KonokoKick
SoundFile    kon_kik1.wav
SoundFile    kon_kik2.wav
SoundFile    kon_kik3.wav
SoundFile    kon_kik4.wav
SoundFile    kon_kik5.wav
SoundFile    kon_kik6.wav
SoundFile    kon_kik7.wav

So if you have the list of sounds to be used in each case, it's pretty easy to replace. I'm interested in the "correct" version. I know it's out there in the data but I don't remember where.

- Pierre

Pierre · 03/01/08 14:03

The controls are still lacking. Namely, because of your higher tolerance on the timing keypresses, it's not unusual to be "trapped" in a long combo, at the mercy of AI.

Maybe you can try playing with the "EventDelay" console command. It could avoid the "trap"... It's the time during which the event is valid. So for example if you press P at time T but no action is triggered by P between T and T + EventDelay, then the punch is discarded.

- Pierre

geyser · 03/23/08 17:03

As for the variable sound pitch - I guess you'll have to implement this at some point anyway. Surely there should be Doppler effects when moving at sONIc speed
It's true that the Furies are a special case and should be treated as such. I'd reauthor them if it wasn't so straightforward. I'l do that when I'm bored, soon enough...
I also might upload some more sounds and music from Beyond Good & Evil. Not all of it fits Oni's tech-oriented universe, but they're nice resources to have around.

I'll try EventDelay later, sounds like it could make the combos less automatic and more Oni-like, indeed. As for Oni's melee sounds, will look'em up Later(TM).

As for Jell'O, I can't say your arguments are convincing, even though you're supposed to be quite the expert (I'm not all that familiar with portal algorithms).
I can't see why you can't set up portal rules that will systematically cull the region where the camera is if it is different from the one where the character is.
That way, the room where the character is will be backface-culled (same as what already happens in demo mode).
As for the neighboring room (if any) where the fixed-distance camera ends up, it will be culled entirely, "by region".
It's the exact opposite of your own intuitive premise up there ("if the camera is in region 1 and the character is in region 2, cull region 2"), but it should work.

Sorry about the Born To Nag attitude. I'm not super-organized myself so I don't always remember you're keeping an exhaustive TODO.
As for OniGame, I spoke a bit too fast (natural-born salesman, heh). It doesn't really replicate all of Oni's Totoro yet. But it feels good
We're not distributing it publicly (out of paranoia), but you can help yourself to it through the private or semi-private channels you know.

Last edited by geyser (03/23/08 17:03)

love_Oni · 05/22/08 03:05

I have finished the first level of Konoko Payne. The last console (in the last room) said 'that was the end of the level', but I didn't see any scene. Are there any another level for us to play?
PS: The game was good, and very funny too

Last edited by love_Oni (09/20/08 08:09)

Pierre · 05/26/08 07:05

>The last console (in the last room) said 'that was the end of the level', but I didn't see any scene.

Because it's all a big "work in progress". More a proof of concept that a real game at the moment.

>Are there any another level for us to play?

Not yet.

Gumby · 05/28/08 00:05

For some reason, in the room requiring you to lock onto the robots I clip the blue light and die every time . Is there any solution?

Also, a screenshot:
attachment.php?item=281&download=1

Last edited by Gumby (05/28/08 01:05)

katze7 · 06/26/08 13:06

Any idea how to edit the effects (like slomo, after-imageing, etc)? I can't access the developer mode ingame.

katze7 · 06/27/08 00:06

I have found a small bug in the April 2008 version. trying to use CTRL as lock auto-crashes the game

Oni Central Forum

#51 02/27/08 12:02

Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

#52 02/27/08 12:02

Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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Re: Updated "Konokö Payne" version

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