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#1 10/9/14 9:48

semicloud
Member
Registered: 25/7/07

Oni remake

hey, i know this topic been talked about if not talked to death, but i kinda want to bring it back up cause i would like to think i am serious about it. i kinda been toying with this idea bit guys. Oni is a great game, but many aspect remains unfinished due to rushed production dead lines.

Now, i being looking at the Blender game engine  and toying with the idea of a wat a remake would be like. i kind just want to see how u guys feel about it first.

if i were to do a fanmade sequel, i am looking at enhancing these elements

1. knonoko will be able to climb latters, ropes, and ledges tombraider style, but still preserving the intuitive controls without introducing extra buttons bogging down the feel of it. this will be integrated with seamless puzzle solving. with the original oni, konoko can only jump, but here she will climb with acrobotics.

2. better level designs integrated with climbing mechanics and puzzle solving, kinda like tombraider. originally, it has being the designer intention to emulate tombraider style puzzle door but it was never taken to maturity. also meaning more diverse level design rather than empty wear house

3. vehicles. vehicles well definitely make the game interesting i think.

4. better story line. i think this important

now, if i were to make a remake, those are the aspect i would focus on.

i like to hear wat u guys think

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#2 10/9/14 9:51

6opoDuJIo
Member
From: Ukraine
Registered: 18/3/13

Re: Oni remake

Community is kinda small and poor to try to enchance game for this lot.

Last edited by 6opoDuJIo (10/9/14 9:51)


Implement Oni with Unity3D engine :
https://github.com/6opoDuJIo/Oni-Round2

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#3 11/6/16 15:30

Davidus007
Member
Registered: 11/6/16

Re: Oni remake

Do u know, who has the copy right for Oni?
Is it Bungie or Rockstar Games?

What's about to buy the licence for Oni and create a remake with Kickstarter?
So many games were sponsored by foreign people about kickstarter.

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#4 11/6/16 17:47

Delano762
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 29/12/10
Website

Re: Oni remake

Davidus007 wrote:

Do u know, who has the copy right for Oni?
Is it Bungie or Rockstar Games?

What's about to buy the licence for Oni and create a remake with Kickstarter?
So many games were sponsored by foreign people about kickstarter.

Neither one has the rights - Take-Two (owner of Rockstar) has them. And they've paid a lot of money back in the day for them.

So a sequel is highly likely as long as:
-You have a spare few millions of dollars (or whatever the price T2 will set) for the rights
-You're a higher-echelon T2 employee who can pull the right strings, or convince someone to pull the strings and start making a sequel.


Circus Afro, Circus Afro, Polka Dot, Polka Dot!

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#5 12/6/16 2:33

Scarlett
Member
From: Jamaica
Registered: 25/11/15

Re: Oni remake

However a game kinda similar can be made by using Unity or Unreal engine

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#6 12/6/16 4:15

Davidus007
Member
Registered: 11/6/16

Re: Oni remake

Delano762 wrote:

Neither one has the rights - Take-Two (owner of Rockstar) has them. And they've paid a lot of money back in the day for them.

So a sequel is highly likely as long as:
-You have a spare few millions of dollars (or whatever the price T2 will set) for the rights
-You're a higher-echelon T2 employee who can pull the right strings, or convince someone to pull the strings and start making a sequel.

If Take-Two paid a lof of money for Oni, why their are no thoughts about a remake or sequel?
I mean, I won't pay so much for something and let it ignore..lol

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#7 12/6/16 8:15

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Oni remake

The answer to that is probably that Oni didn't meet their sales goals.  It should have been delayed until it was really finished and polished, but instead T2 shipped it just a few months after acquiring it from Bungie, only giving the Bungie West employees that were left a few months to close some bugs.

A second reason probably has something to do with Grand Theft Auto.  Once GTA III came out in Oct. 2001, the series took off and T2 had the cash cow that they were looking for.  Compared to the kind of sales they now get from GTA, the sales from Oni would look like chump change.

By the way, if you click the link at the top of the forum that leads to the wiki, we have all the details there about ownership of the game, etc.  Just start with the "Oni" article.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#8 12/6/16 9:31

Davidus007
Member
Registered: 11/6/16

Re: Oni remake

What a bummer!

Sure, I can understand, that T2 is a business company and their first goal is earning money and if Oni doesnt fit it, they must change their developing work.
With the earnings of the GTA series, it would be enough, if they spend 10 million $ for developing a new Oni...but it's just a dream, I think.

I try to contact the support of T2, if they have some more details about the future of Oni, but acutally their is an error, so I can not contact them.

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#9 12/6/16 13:10

Jon God
Member
Registered: 17/1/07

Re: Oni remake

To be fair, Take 2 isn't afraid of going back and rebooting franchises, nor is it afraid of new entries in old franchises. See XCOM, and new IPs like Borderlands and BioShock. I think they might want to hold onto the IP and do nothing with it until some company looks back and see something they could make a game out of.

Sadly that's how most old IPs go to die.


Jon-God.jpg
PSN: Jon_God
XBL: Ernie The Bear

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#10 13/6/16 8:53

ViciousReilly
Member
Registered: 15/7/09

Re: Oni remake

Scarlett wrote:

However a game kinda similar can be made by using Unity or Unreal engine

I have always felt like this is the best option and one people can act upon now, create a spiritual successor to ONI without the need for the license. I have discussed that idea with other creative AE contributors on this forum in the past but the interest does not seem to be there unfortunately.

-VR

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#11 13/6/16 15:40

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Oni remake

Hi VR, nice to see you here at the forums.  What are you doing these days?

This reminds me that Wolfire's Overgrowth switched to the Unreal engine, so it is possible to make an Oni successor with that engine.

Also last year 6opoDuJIo was working on Oni in Unity3D, here is the last video he posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBlvNFzC22s
That page includes a link to his code on Github. Unfortunately, he does not seem to be working on it anymore, last commit was Apr 2015.

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#12 13/6/16 18:35

ViciousReilly
Member
Registered: 15/7/09

Re: Oni remake

EdT wrote:

Hi VR, nice to see you here at the forums.  What are you doing these days?

This reminds me that Wolfire's Overgrowth switched to the Unreal engine, so it is possible to make an Oni successor with that engine.

Also last year 6opoDuJIo was working on Oni in Unity3D, here is the last video he posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBlvNFzC22s
That page includes a link to his code on Github. Unfortunately, he does not seem to be working on it anymore, last commit was Apr 2015.

Hi Ed,

I am doing great thanks, been working on a couple of my own ideas/projects! Yes I was following the Oni Unity progress with excitement, however like you mentioned it has trailed off. I still think Unreal 4 would be an excellent choice to make an Oni-like game. Just need a team of devotees to get something started smile.

Again, although I love the Oni universe, I don't think the fiction is necessary to make a worthy spiritual successor. I believe many talented folks on this forum could write a new fiction and characters that stands on its own without the need for T2's license, just my 2 cents.

-VR

Last edited by ViciousReilly (14/6/16 8:19)

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#13 14/6/16 14:28

Davidus007
Member
Registered: 11/6/16

Re: Oni remake

This morning I watched this video and I was impressed, that Oni looks well.
Yes, I think so, that the modder does not work anymore at this project.

Well, I hope, that Oni wont fall into oblivion in the future.
Maybe there are some guys, who have time and fun to modify this game.

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#14 14/6/16 15:21

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Oni remake

My opinion:
There's no "just". Don't rely on others, don't speak of OCF community and exclude yourself.
You are the community, if YOU don't make something nothing will happen.
But speaking up and investing time is only one hurdle.

Jumping over one's own shadow and work in a field you aren't confident is the other hurdle.
If success needs you to learn Unity instead of e.g. Blender will you still do it?

If we finally don't decide on an engine how can we ever hope to gather enough manpower?
After all those years Pierre's Konoko Payne and 6opoDuJIo's Unity attempt are the best we got so far.
Single man projects can reach a state were a few demo levels are playable but without more collaboration these projects die sooner or later. Diversification is something we must overcome.

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#15 14/6/16 17:02

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Oni remake

First, hi guys. Nice to see you VR, Ed and Paradox.

I agree with paradox, but to be honest if this is to be made we need a project leader, imo why Pierre's and 6opoDuJIO's projects stopped is because we were only at the receiving ends.

Personally, for example I'd look at the unity thread and understand nothing. Yeah it looks good but it means nothing to me hence I don't get motivated to try.

Take XSI for example and Onisplit and the tools we already have. Neo made onisplit, he shared it with you, those who understood it, built on that, wrote tutorials and documentation that allowed new people to participate and use these tools despite not understanding how the tools worked exactly. I fall into this category.

Once I understood Xsi i was able to make characters, once Scarlett undersood it she made new animations, once Edt gave us the how to make new levels, several of us jumped in and made new levels.

For rebuilding Oni on a new engine to work imo we need:

1)Someone who understands it and can explain it to us common folk with simple terms. Pick an engine and stick with it. Give us a small tutorial on how it could be useful for Oni. (No, most of us, myself included, are not going to just look up tutorials of it on the internet.. why? 1, I don't have the time. 2, I won't be motivated to look at vids of it on my slow internet to see it being used for something I don't care about) show me how it is useful for Oni and that will get me interested. We can't all self learn.

2)that someone who starts working on it needs to share and explain what they are doing step by step and give us opportunity to do the same, to catch up. Once enough of us learn, we will find what we are most passionate about and work on that part.

3)Do not presume we all know how this works. Ideally someone who knows is the better choice to work on this project. But we don't have that luxury. We have to teach our willing members.

4)Once enough of us learn, and we find what we like, tasks can be split. Example those who liked characters and animations, those who liked coding, those who liked textures etc.. can all take the tasks they are most good at. But again a project manager is needed to coordinate. Then we can start making it. When everyone is doing their own thing, we will never get anywhere.
I take for example my Hasegawa level, I had a vision of what I wanted it to be, Edt built the level geometry, Ltemplar helped with 3d models, i did the scripts. Team work paid off. If i was trying to learn and do everything on my own I would have got exhausted and lost interest which is what I presume happened with Pierre and DUjio

Last edited by Samer (14/6/16 17:06)


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#16 14/6/16 17:08

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Oni remake

Hi Samer, glad to see you here again.  You make a strong case on how we could move forward with a new engine.

BTW, have you worked on your Oni characters?  Or is real life just too busy?

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#17 14/6/16 17:14

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Oni remake

Hi Ed. Real life has been too busy. But even when it's not it was hard to get motivated to work on them again. In my free time I manage a facebook page for a mobile game with about 40,000 followers. I write reviews of new content and such and have to manage the page. That keeps me busy. But now taking summer vacation. I hope I get motivated to revisit them.


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#18 15/6/16 8:42

Alloc
Member
From: Germany -> Darmstadt
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Oni remake

I think most of you aren't seeing the implications of "making a game".

Typically a game is in development for over 3 years, 5 isn't that rare for bigger titles. And that's with a big team, like 50+, of full time workes. Even indie games (that actually ever make it to a real release) take more than two years and it's only shorter as those games normally feature less content / details / complexity and normally the devs spend even more time on it than a normal 40 hours work week. I know that e.g. on our team most are working more like 10 hours on 6-7 days a week.

Then there's money involved: Even if *everything* (but the engine of course) was done from scratch so no material expenses you'd have to live from something. So lets say you find 5-10 people to build a team from that would be like *at least* US$ 250k to 500k a year. Where do you take the money from? Basically three options: Private investment as starting capital ... you would only want to do it this way if you were 1000% sure you'll get that back later on (and you obviously can't be with such a game). Crowdfunding: Sure, works if you succeed with the campaign. But making more than 100k for a niche game like this? I doubt so wink Lastly: Get a few tiny bits working and do early access. But to get to a state you can do any early access at all you'd have to spend at least a few months on the game already to get some basics in. No income during that period either.

Of course now you could suggest doing this in people's free time as a hobby project (that's what it most of the time sounds like when this topic comes up anyway). But that would induce at least three new problems:
1. It would take way longer again as no one will work like 8 hours a day + everything that doing so requires (like lunchbreak, travel to/from work) and then work another 8 hours on a hobby project.
2. You won't have a dedicated and stable team. Focus shifts to other things, people get in a relationship, differences in the team, whatever. Having a core of even 3 people that work on such a project for a few years? Unlikely.
3. At all time during that development period you have to have a few roles filled on your team: Code devs (probably the easiest part to find), artists, designers (as in game design, not in content). One of those not done properly and you'll be in trouble again.



This is not to stomp on your dreams or anything. And of course I too would like to see a successor to Oni. But what's suggested here is simply not realistic at all on a level like this. There's a reason so many crowdfunded / early access games fail to deliver a finished product in the end sad


ONI2.net, link to just any important resource-pages about ONI.

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#19 16/6/16 18:15

ltemplar
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 23/8/12

Re: Oni remake

Alloc you are to pessimistic.

Game developing it's not so hard as you may think.The main problem is how large and close to today's standard the project should be. If you are focused on something small to medium size(and oni can fit in that category)the rate of success will increase significantly. The most time takes hi grade graphics, and coding/optimization. The rest is rather easy to achieve.

So for example if you make simple animations(close to oni ones), normal graphics(without fancy stuff like normal maps etc) and  simple coding (UNity use c sharp or java scripts which are relatively easy to learn and use) the developing time for the first prototype will take less than 1 - 4 months (depending on the team size and the time they can spend on the project).

The biggest issue which the ONi successor will be however AI related events and to be more precise the hard to code AI correlation between the h2h2 combat and shooting system.The rest like path-finding , graphics, animations even weapons /items usage is quite easy because unity have so many tutorials and free to use scripts for all that stuff.

So It's quite possible to do it. The question is if we will be able to find persons dedicated for it (and working for free because it's a fan project after all)

Now something about other projects.
Piere abandon it because he lost interest(he also used he's own engine for it if I recall correctly so outside help was rather hard/impossible to get for him)
DUjio form the other hand try something opposite. He try to convert existing oni to Unity which handle everything completely(from script structure , pathfiding , animations etc) in different way. No offence but that was rather hardcore idea most likely to fail sooner or later.

In other words the "new" oni must be rewrite from scratch on new engine without anything form the old one.Maybe animations..but using mecanime makes this almost impossible, because humanoid avatars are handled by specific usage of names ik and the skins that in ONI  as we known are non exist.Of curse you can use non humanoid avatar too(that's possible) ,but then every animation used for character aiming reloading, skins(one per one animator) etc, must be done for every state while using avatar this can be handled by masking specific bones , which in long term shortens the amount of work.

Ltemplar.

Last edited by ltemplar (16/6/16 18:16)

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#20 17/6/16 4:17

Alloc
Member
From: Germany -> Darmstadt
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Oni remake

Ah well, I think after working for one of the successful indies for almost two years I can say I'm quite familiar with how this business works wink

Yes, of course you can set the goals lower and be done faster. But that only works with the non-professional route, i.e. not wanting to make any money out of it (and thus only doing this in your free time with the problems mentioned above) because you can't sell anything that's neither up to the standards for games nor has something veeery unique that makes up for it. Yeah, h2h is something special but I doubt it would be that "unique unique" that enough people would fall for sad

And none of this would be simple at all if you actually want h2h that's even remotely as good as Oni's as that's nothing that comes out of the box with any engine. Getting this part alone to a good state would probably take longer than the 1-4 months. And then there's networking ... doing that good (*and* with h2h support) is probably one of the most complex tasks on such a project.

Yes: It is doable. But as I said I doubt you could find enough people that are talented enough in the different aspects AND (don't wanna say there aren't a bunch of really talented people in this community for different aspects of things wink ) can spend enough time on it for free AND that will stick together long enough to finish something.

I simply don't see that happening here. And I don't want a load of people to think that such an undertaking would be so easy that they get their hopes up too much or even spent a lot of time and then have to notice it's not the way they thought it would be.

Still I would be really happy to be proven wrong on this topic and see a successor to Oni or even better at some point a new game in the Oni universe smile


ONI2.net, link to just any important resource-pages about ONI.

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#21 17/6/16 14:37

ltemplar
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 23/8/12

Re: Oni remake

Yes that's the huge problem

There is non existing vision how this Oni's sucesor should be done.Even remotely close. Only talk "how this will be awesome". No solid vision/plan at all.
-As professional project
-Or as the non profit fan project.
Which both positive and negative consequences regarding each way.

To be honest . My hopes are getting thinner and thinner every time I visit this topic. Why you may ask? Because of the attitude.
Pros like Alloc knowing the stuff will non likely take part on it(or misinterpreted something), or at least without any compensation , while from the other hand amateurs have non interest in starting this without any "child" like guidance.
This road will take us nowhere.

And that's the real source of the problem isn't it?

To Alloc :
I'm aware of that fully polished product will take more than 3-4 years to finish that's why I used word "early prototype" and show points where it will be problematic (mentioned H2H, AI). And obviously taking then non profit route(as the fan project) to be more precise.
And Yes I will definitely agree with You, that for profit like product it will take less to finish but huge cash investment(not to mention the IP license cost here).But not everything you have seed is accurate to be honest. For example the games with non standard graphics are quite popular(done on RPG maker for example, visual newels, etc, not to mention "old school") and oni is "enough" unique in it's category to catch potential "buyers" if it will be done right.But in rest total agreement.

Ltemplar.

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#22 20/6/16 8:29

ViciousReilly
Member
Registered: 15/7/09

Re: Oni remake

Hi,

It seems like I unintentionally sparked a bit of an uproar with my statements (or maybe this is just how the thread is in general and I am giving myself too much credit tongue).

I just want to re-iterate that my intent was to focus on the apparent need for the Oni license to make a new game and that I didn't feel it was necessary to obtain it from T2 to continue. I feel like the story and character elements that make Oni interesting are not ones that are unique and can be reproduced with the talented people on this forum (There are some interesting Oni 2 ideas from members that I believe are better than the original). So my statements were more to encourage eager creators that wanted to make something to press forward with their work without worrying so much on having an Oni license. You could make a new story with almost identical characters, call it something new and be safe from the wrath of Take 2. The new game "Mighty No. 9" is a good example. It's almost identical to Mega Man in every way (Even helmed by the original Mega Man creator), but is not owned by Capcom and is legally safe to be created and sold with no repercussions.

What I don't want people to take away from my message was the idea that making a new game would be simple or easy. I have been a professional in the game industry for 10+ years and I don't want to trivialize the amount of work in game production (I have completely re-textured several levels/characters from Oni in HD and it was more work than I bargained for). I also believe that the although the workflow in the Oni engine has been eased a lot by the awesome coders on this forum, newer engines out there have streamlined work flows that could potentially speed up workflow by 10x once learned.

I do agree with you guys that this project would need a leader or visionary to keep the core together and flowing well with updates, and that this is a team endeavor not a one man mission. However I do not feel like this is an insurmountable task.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step"

-VR

Last edited by ViciousReilly (20/6/16 10:06)

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#23 20/6/16 13:23

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Oni remake

Thanks for your input VR.  I just think we have too many obstacles in making a new game:
1. This community has always been made up of lone wolves.  Getting them to agree on leadership and a single list of priorities would be hard.
2. There are too few active people here now.  We were in much better shape around 2008-2010.
3. We don't have the free time/money to be able to make a game in anything less than a decade.

To expand on point 1, a leader would need to be able to criticize the work being done, or there would be no consistent standards and quality control in the end product.  A lack of quality control would be dangerous, because we are too used to looking at this game from 2001, and it distorts our sense of what people would expect from even an indie title in 2016.

Also, it's pretty hard to get modders to accept critical comments; I've been on the receiving end of them, on the rare occasions when I've done creative work here, so I know it can be demotivating when we view this as just a fun hobby and someone wants us to spend more time on our work.  Now, if fans were creating a sequel with the intention of selling it, then you could promise them a share of the profit and they would view this more as a job.  But, at least as hobbyists, most of our modders have not demonstrated a willingness to take criticism and re-do any work.

Finally (and VR, you might recall my saying this to you once), our reasons for being fans of Oni are not identical.  For instance, you say that we could bring the GitS aesthetic with us to a new universe that resembles Oni's so that we don't need an IP license, but, speaking for myself, I don't really care that much about the GitS aesthetic, and I don't even see it in Oni, even if GitS was the game's inspiration.  My interests always leaned towards the characters and situations, which is why I was working on sequel story ideas within a year of joining the community, rather than on mods.

To give another example, some people love the fast simple gameplay, and some people want to add new mechanics and more stealth in order to give the game more depth and variety.  So when you have a group of people that see different things in Oni, it's hard to get them to agree to work on a project without it becoming an unfocused project led by committee.  I don't even know if we can decide between making a real sequel that uses the Oni IP and therefore can't be sold, or to make a spiritual sequel that can be.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#24 4/1/17 4:37

Bishop0986
Member
Registered: 4/1/17

Re: Oni remake

Hi All,

I have just started making a semi ONI Remake but its not based on Konoko or her story its more of a Tournament setting with the same style and gameplay I am using Unreal Engine 4 to do this as all the animations I want to use I have found already its just about fitting all the peices of the puzzle together so that it moves some what seamlessly, let me know if you are interested in getting involved and what skills you have to contribute,

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#25 4/1/17 7:03

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Oni remake

Imo, if you really want to motivate some people maybe start a new thread where you can show *how* you work on that project.
How do you import a character?
How do you import an animation?
How do you connect animations?
How do you setup a trigger volume?
You would have to show how to do those in a way that is easier then with the current Oni.
Personally I'm also a bit concerned that there will be no Konoko at all ? smile

Last edited by paradox-01 (4/1/17 7:06)

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