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#51 30/6/13 17:13

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Played through the whole game with SMP installed, so it's time for feedback.

Generally, SMP is a good game-altering modification. Introducing a whole array of altered characters to make things fresh for veterans.
Except for the Grey Fury and the Dream lab mess, no "new battle" was too difficult. Even Muro Boss Battle was done on the first attempt with all allies staying alive till the end.

Respect for Casey character and his moveset. Amount of combo variabilities is enormous when compared to vanilla Oni characters. And his cutscene image looks really professional.

Following are in my opinion issues which should be addressed by the creator (Samer) in some future:

  1. When a rather difficult battle is staged to happen at some place in the level, please add new extra checkpoint in such a way so in a case of a player's failure the battle area can be reached within a minute or two.
    Placing difficult battle near the end of the current checkpoint's area (player dies = replay previous ten to fifteen minutes to get to the sub-boss again) is in my opnion not challenging, but demoralizing.
    This appeals to:

    • Hanako sub-boss battle (Rooftops near the end of the first checkpoint area)

    • Hayate & Hanako sub-boss battle (Rooftops near the end of the second checkpoint area)

    • Casey sub-boss battle (TCTF II near the end of the fourth checkpoint area)

     

  2. Making sub-bosses totally weapon immune without any explanation is not a good idea in my opinion. Since their weapon immunity is never explained "lore-wise", it looks simply odd why a full SBG blast is no problem even for characters like Casey (no armor, no superpowers).
    It is suggested to remove chr_weapon_immune and in exchange:

    • Give Skull Team members stronger BossShield multiplier. From my observations, Boss Shield serves from the narrative point of view as some sort of a superhuman protection for Daodan symbiotes, so it makes sense in my eyes for Skull Team members to have it.
      As for the Boss Shield protection amount, a full-fledged most-damage-dealt scenario of the SBG blast is 32 initial hit + 32 * 6 secondary hits = 224 damage. SBG has four shots, that makes it 896 damage in total.

      If the Boss Shield protection is set to for example 0.75, it would mean all incoming damage/knockback/stun is cut to its 25%. That way, the damage of four full-fledged SBG blasts is cut down to mere 224 damage in total, and that is the MOST DAMAGE dealt scenario when counting ALL FOUR SBG SHOTS, so in the actual gameplay the dealt damage will be most probably lower.

      Skull Team members have around 200 HP, so unless extremely (un)lucky conditions are met (depending on the point of view ^_^) they should be able to survive even such unfavorable situation.
       

    • Regarding other sub-bosses (Casey, Hayate, Hanako), it is suggested to give them not the boss shield, but blue shield and give them higher shields than 100 (for example, Casey in TCTF II could use blue shield of value 2500 or 3000). That way it is clear these characters cannot be harmed by weaponry not because of some magic, but because they are protecting themselves with advanced technology. However, if some player truly dedicates to hoarding ammo and then attacking these characters with strong weapons, let them eventually wear the shield down. Unless the player uses cheats, by the time the shield finally gives in the player will be most likely out of ammo. This will further enforce the believeability of the situation - yes, the blue shield can be eventually taken down, however it is not worth the effort.

     

  3. Grey "Regen" Fury is unfairly overpowered from my point of view. She has a very agile moveset (no issue with that ^_^), and on top of that:

    • her third kick in the KKK combo is set to be a completely melee-invulnerable move

    • her third punch in the PPP combo is set to be a completely melee-invulnerable move

    • her punch and kick specials are set to be completely melee-invulnerable moves

    It is acknowledged that all these are a heritage of vanilla RED character class. However, vanilla Oni RED class has a low health (thus the battle is focused on disposing of the fast agile threat ASAP), whereas Grey Fury has around 200 HP, making the "fair and square" battle with her very tedious. She has speed, she has damage, she has health, she has regeneration, so in my opinion her melee combat advantages should be cut down a bit.

     

  4. Golden TCTF SWAT characters have weird intepolations from punches to kicks (too many interpolation frames). Also, these golden SWAT character have overpowered kick special ("charge") - insanely large area is covered by that attack and the fact it can "home on enemies" only stresses the cheapness of that move. It could be useful to shorten it by about a third.

Last edited by Loser (30/6/13 17:16)


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#52 30/6/13 20:31

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
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Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Hi Loser thanks for the playing and for the feedback ..

Loser wrote:

When a rather difficult battle is staged to happen at some place in the level, please add new extra checkpoint in such a way so in a case of a player's failure the battle area can be reached within a minute or two.

I totally agree that's why I was hesitant to include hayate\hanako in version 1 because any place I though of was too far from checkpoints .. but 2 issues are : I don't know how to add save points with scripts, I'm not good with bsl and that one seems a bit complex ... in addition personally i'm not a fan of mods that add save points to the original levels because after you uninstall the mod the save point is left there then if player loads that save point he may end up stuck. If in the future adding removing save points becomes easier with mod install\uninstall hopefully by soem feature of the AEI I will definitely add them.

Give Skull Team members stronger BossShield multiplier. From my observations, Boss Shield serves from the narrative point of view as some sort of a superhuman protection for Daodan symbiotes, so it makes sense in my eyes for Skull Team members to have it.
As for the Boss Shield protection amount, a full-fledged most-damage-dealt scenario of the SBG blast is 32 initial hit + 32 * 6 secondary hits = 224 damage. SBG has four shots, that makes it 896 damage in total.

totally agree too, the reason I didn't do this in this version, is It will require me to update my character packages (Grey Fury, Kojiro, Regtanker) to modify their ONCCs and the bossshield value, so I'll do that once there's an update for those packages .. SMP is few Kbs so it's easy to update and to expect users to redownlaod it while the character packs are several Mbs.


Regarding other sub-bosses (Casey, Hayate, Hanako), it is suggested to give them not the boss shield, but blue shield and give them higher shields than 100 (for example, Casey in TCTF II could use blue shield of value 2500 or 3000). ...  but because they are protecting themselves with advanced technology.

also true .. the reason I didn't do that here is purely cosmetic ... I didn't want him to wear the shield in the cutscene because I wanted to showcase his lion jacket outfit ^_^ tongue and because in my tests when he's wearing shield and HD konoko is installed and wearing a shield buffer overflow happens and contrails flicker which I hate ... so how i convinced myself with it was : he's wearing the latest TCTF invisible shield big_smile tongue I'll think of something more believable .. maybe once he's shot he says activating shield and then I give him either the blue shield or boss shield.
for hayate and hanako I'll probably use the skull team method cz they also have daodan powers (I've updated their character packs so much lately though. people are gonna hate me for making them download the updates tongue)


Grey "Regen" Fury is unfairly overpowered from my point of view. She has a very agile moveset (no issue with that ^_^), and on top of that:
nd kick specials are set to be completely melee-invulnerable moves
It is acknowledged that all these are a heritage of vanilla RED character class. However, vanilla Oni RED class has a low health (thus the battle is focused on disposing of the fast agile threat ASAP), whereas Grey Fury has around 200 HP, making the "fair and square" battle with her very tedious. She has speed, she has damage, she has health, she has regeneration, so in my opinion her melee combat advantages should be cut down a bit.

mm yeah like you said those were vanilla stuff, I only modified the hit impact particle in the trams from the vanilla.
I'll use the Andrashi TRAMs in the next Grey Fury update for the combos you mentioned (you balanced the moves in it) but to be honest the heavy punch for example (ten shadow punch) I don't really see how that move should be vulnerable, she's pouncing with her fists very quickly so imo in that case one should just dodge.
brutal AI makes her even harder btw so It's recommended to turn it off for this battle since she uses hard fury melee.

Golden TCTF SWAT characters have weird intepolations from punches to kicks (too many interpolation frames).

can you specify which moves exactly ? as I recall I didn't modify the interpolation here I gave them striker's and TCTF swat moves which already should fit their idle stance and hence didn't need interpolation. (ppp is strikers', kkk is striker's k and k_k and swat's k_k_k)

Also, these golden SWAT character have overpowered kick special ("charge") - insanely large area is covered by that attack and the fact it can "home on enemies" only stresses the cheapness of that move. It could be useful to shorten it by about a third.

noted for the next GoldenTCTF update, btw do you know how i can turn off the homing for the moves ? I always thought DoAim and DontAim flags were about that turns out it about weapons xD.

and also regarding final battle .. do you think I should add another wave of enemies ?
I should also utilize the skull team somehow in the final battle if killed griffin with mutant muro cz they said they'll be back .. any suggestions ?
again thanks for playing smile


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#53 3/7/13 14:45

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

I forgot to report a pretty nasty bug. During the fight with the Grey Fury, if you manage to lure her away from Shinatama then quickly approach the android, a cutscene will start (as no hostile AI is detected in a trigger volume near Shinnie).

This opens a path for dealing with the Grey Fury in a really easy way - just lure her away from Shinatama, let the cutscene happen then sprint to the "safe door" like there is no tomorrow. Grey Fury will quite often get glitched on stairs due to sloppy auto-generated pathfinding grid, which will delay her for long enough to be killed by Shinatama's explosion.

I was thinking about that way of dealing with her in the video, but decided that would be really @$$holish. Better was to abuse the "over the railing we go" stairs glitch.

Last edited by Loser (3/7/13 14:48)


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#54 3/7/13 15:05

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Waw ok never knew that ... maybe i can disable the trigger volume and only enable it once she dies ... The over the rail bug, i guess the only ways to overcome that is to force her to not leave the area, not sure how to that, or a less clean way of waiting for the fall animation and teleport her back down safely.

Last edited by Samer (3/7/13 15:08)


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#55 17/7/13 4:47

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Samer, HERE you can download your SamMegaPack with altered GreyFury battle. Enclosed is a readme file. Feel free to use it, be it a whole tweak or just some portion of it.

This tweak of your work is designed to mitigate all "smartass" ways of gaining significant advantages over GreyFury.
Hopefully everything will be all right and there will be no bugs to be fixed, as I am already looking forward to trying EdT's City level ^_^

Last edited by Loser (17/7/13 4:54)


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#56 19/7/13 22:43

Samer
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From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
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Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Thanks Loser, this is very cool, smile I updated SMP-Conversion with it, I really loved the cutscene modification as well.
sorry it took a while for me to respond, I've been swamped with work lately.


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#57 9/8/14 8:53

Mri Bay
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Registered: 24/4/14

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

hey i started playing through the sam mega pack with the master chief skin
somehow i die a lot quicker than when i played through the normal version with the ninja skin. in the first airport level i keep dying after the second savepoint, which really never happens

has the mega pack altered the difficulty setting (made "hard" even harder) or is the master chief skin just crap?

and by crap i mean weak, because its a great skin. if there were quotes from halo it would be a dream!

*edit: ok after giving barabas a perfect both times i cant say that hes weak. but the question remains: is the difficulty also altered?

Last edited by Mri Bay (9/8/14 10:49)


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#58 10/8/14 18:44

Mri Bay
Member
Registered: 24/4/14

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

ok forget my last post, this is serious

it seems that every time i get into a sub-bossfight, reg. fury in lvl8, the ninja in lvl9 and 10 and so on,
the old "damn! oni crashed" comes up

has this already happened?


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#59 11/8/14 16:07

Samer
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From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Try it as the only installed package (with its dependencies) do you still have the issue ?


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#60 13/8/14 2:47

Mri Bay
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Registered: 24/4/14

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

it turned out that the same thing happened any time i had to play with custom characters.
in the city parcour lvl sp1 the same thing happened.
so i tried to install and disinstall a few patches and run it again, it turnes out that it wont work with the weapons mods.

or maybe its something else, i dont know. seems like its the weapons


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#61 14/8/14 19:34

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

I have addressed this before. And there's a warning about it in the description of all my chatacter mods. Amd it shows up in the tips when you start the Ae installer: Particles limit. If you install too many packages that add new particles the game crashes when the character does a move with contrails or when a weapon is fired (when the particle is used) These include but not limited to custom characters with custom contrails or chenilles, new weapons, levels with new particles etc ...

More info here.
http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … hp?id=2567

So if you like to use smp for example dont install the bgi characters and the new weapons too.

Last edited by Samer (14/8/14 19:39)


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#62 21/12/14 9:05

Rei
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Registered: 19/12/14

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Easily one of my favourites all rounder mod that add variety, challenges and fun to the entire Oni game. I've replayed the whole game using SMP Conv and the feeling is a whole lot different. New boss fights (Eg Reg Tanker, Hanako and Hayate etc) make this more challenging and amazing. The added scene and tag teams eg with Casey gives much more depth when playing, while retaining the originality and nostalgic gameplay.

But there are some bugs/flaws tho:
-Rooftops: At the zipline area. When both enemies fall down the cliff, only one teleports up, the other one has disappeared completely. So the zip liner could be unobtainable if so.
-The boss at Sy.Mountain SP3 could be thrown from 4th floor, making it the easiest to defeat boss ever.
-Casey suddenly dissappeared out of no where right before going to SP2 in TCTF HQ. Maybe a cut scene where he has other important things to do. 

If I may suggest some areas for improvement:
-Daodan powerups: I personally don't think the Regeneration Team and 2 Ninjas should be have daodon overpower during their first encounter. This makes them way more challenging and kinda diverge away from the fact that the game shrouds around the Chrysalis. It is appropriate for the Final Battle as the mystery of the Daodan Chrysalis has been revealed and would love to see Griffin get some daodan and for Hay and Han to make their appearance as the backups as opposed to Elites. This is because Daodon seems to be concentrated in the storyline for Konoko and Muro that I think the others should not have it yet till the final battle where there is this overflow of energy. Perhaps once the muro and gang are defeated, Mutant Muro could show up for a final one on one battle.
-Could perhaps change the item and weapon location, as well as the enemies, their weapons and drop to give a newer sensation. Could add new weapons and characters too. I would love to help out with this.
-Can include a small BGI story cutscene in RS Building or TCTF HQ to make up for the missing link in the BGI's role.

Overall it's an amazing mod definitely looking forward to Version 3.

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#63 26/12/14 13:12

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

Rei wrote:

Easily one of my favourites all rounder mod that add variety, challenges and fun to the entire Oni game. I've replayed the whole game using SMP Conv and the feeling is a whole lot different. New boss fights (Eg Reg Tanker, Hanako and Hayate etc) make this more challenging and amazing. The added scene and tag teams eg with Casey gives much more depth when playing, while retaining the originality and nostalgic gameplay.

thanks smile glad it accomplished its goal smile



But there are some bugs/flaws tho:
-Rooftops: At the zipline area. When both enemies fall down the cliff, only one teleports up, the other one has disappeared completely. So the zip liner could be unobtainable if so.

mm that shouldn't happen ... did it happen more than once ? it could be a one time glitch. and which boss was it ? Hayate (male) or Hanako (female) ?


-The boss at Sy.Mountain SP3 could be thrown from 4th floor, making it the easiest to defeat boss ever.

mmm you mean Kojiro ? since the area is open there, don't know how to prevent him from following you ... maybe I'll add a forcefield on the staircase till he is defeated.

-Casey suddenly dissappeared out of no where right before going to SP2 in TCTF HQ. Maybe a cut scene where he has other important things to do.

yeah that is supposed to happen, the next area is the area with the broken ramps which Konoko will have to jump, the AI, casey can't do that successfully so there's no point in following here there. S basically he goes back to secure the area tongue

If I may suggest some areas for improvement:
-Daodan powerups: I personally don't think the Regeneration Team and 2 Ninjas should be have daodon overpower during their first encounter. This makes them way more challenging and kinda diverge away from the fact that the game shrouds around the Chrysalis. It is appropriate for the Final Battle as the mystery of the Daodan Chrysalis has been revealed and would love to see Griffin get some daodan and for Hay and Han to make their appearance as the backups as opposed to Elites. This is because Daodon seems to be concentrated in the storyline for Konoko and Muro that I think the others should not have it yet till the final battle where there is this overflow of energy. Perhaps once the muro and gang are defeated, Mutant Muro could show up for a final one on one battle.

I see your point, but at the same time I was going for conveying that the Chrysallis was experimental, Barabas was the first experiment which was not very successful and hence the mutation while the others she come across later are more successful experiments showing the effect of the Chrysallis, (Reg team and Hayate\Hanako) but are still weaker than Muro and Konoko ... when she meets with Kerr and learns about the Crysallis she says Muro and HIS MEN are monsters .. so I thought it made sense that she would have had previous content with the Crysallis even if she didn't know what it was. for Hayate and Hanako making a reappearance, since they already appear in regional state building, then in the Rooftops, then in the Dream Lab I think it will be overkill for them to reappear in the final battle again, especially with Mukade, (their boss) dead.

-Could perhaps change the item and weapon location, as well as the enemies, their weapons and drop to give a newer sensation. Could add new weapons and characters too. I would love to help out with this.
-Can include a small BGI story cutscene in RS Building or TCTF HQ to make up for the missing link in the BGI's role.


one of the issues we have is particles limit, adding too many new particles will cause the game to crash. The new characters currently required by this mod add a lot of new particles, I didn't want to add even more with the New weapons mod and the BGI characters, I've had reports of it crashing when installed with the new weapons mod or some of my BGI characters like the agents or Hammer .. therefore it was decided that the BGI will get their own separate mod & level so that they can be installed exclusively of the other characters to avoid incompatibilities. (Actually it's mentioned in the post just above yours too)

If you like to experience a mod where the weapons and items are hidden in the game I highly suggest you try my "Hidden Treasure Challenge mod" where Rayman's fist weapon is hidden in each one of the levels and there's a riddle to help you figure out where each one is smile It's a lot of fun ^_^   and the Wilderness Preserve level which is a whole new level with a lot of hidden items and surprises big_smile


Thanks for the feedback, and welcome to the forum.

Last edited by Samer (26/12/14 13:14)


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#64 28/12/14 22:00

Lithium
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From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: *** SAM MEGA PACK - Conversion *** Version 2 Updated on 16/6/2013

I agree with them having glow until much later in the game tbh, it makes more sense that way, like Muro realizes "Oh shit I need to get my best goons to back me up here and load them up with this substance"


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