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#1 29/11/07 13:01

gorilla325
Member
Registered: 29/11/07

any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

hi, i am playing oni again for i don't know how many times.  and yet, i still can't pull off willow kick continuously.  i can't make a twister kick either.  devil spin kick and rising fury were easier to pull off, but i could not do them as well as i want either. 

just wondering if any of you had same problem with these moves, or other moves?  a bit frustrated.  tongue

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#2 29/11/07 13:32

Tyr
Member
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 9/5/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

Train, Train, Train is the key I think. smile
If you have mastered the other combinations, and are trying to get these trickier combos in your move-arsenal, it is most wise to keep on trying them.
In the beginning just try to make it work once, and then you can move on to regular use.
This is what you have to do to get the most combinations of keys to become a simple movement with your fingers.
Of course you cannot just go try to use the willow kick constantly on Muro, as he'll have kicked your ass and said "pie" before you've done it once (if you're as inexperienced as I once was tongue).
I myself even have problems with some keys (I can perform these kicks, but I do make mistakes and "miss-touches" a lot, which ruins the move).
I agree on the fact that Willow Kick is most difficult, Twister kick is easier.
There are some people here that have learned to use all combos very neatly and fluent, maybe they can give a better advice. wink

Another idea might be to download the hack that enables all combos at the beginning of the game, thus allowing you to train them in less "advanced" combat situations.
With this I mainly mean easier enemies and less timing required to perform them on the enemies.
More information about this enabling moves earlier in the game can be found here.

I hope this helps (a bit). smile

Last edited by Tyr (30/11/07 8:58)

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#3 29/11/07 15:25

Tantir
Member
From: Cracow
Registered: 10/6/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

Twister kick is  most difficult (I learn how to make it a week ago:))... and most useless. Willow kick is useless too.
Easier and faster you kill your opponent if you use p_p_k and rising fury then Willow kick + backbreaker.
I really don`t know for what is Twister kick. wink If I want push aside my opponent i throw him. wink

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#4 29/11/07 17:32

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

"the script that enables all combos at the beginning of the game" That's not a script.
It's a binary hack to the global level0_Final archive. About 30 megs to download.
The next release of the Edition will enable those combos in a much lighter way.

I can not pull off super-combos (Rising Fury, Devil Spin Kick, etc) as often as I'd like to.
Crescent Kick is a bit easier than Willow Kick, and Twister kick is sometimes harder.
I say sometimes because sometimes I'm on a roll and I can do specials all day long.
Other times I'm too lazy to concentrate on the timing, and I resort to lousy throws.
Oni vidmasters can attest that the Willow Kick is quite useful once you get it to work.
Some enemies, however, will block it, which makes it something to use with care.
Same thing for the Twister Kick. You have to pick just the right moment to use it.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#5 29/11/07 18:36

Your_Mom
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 31/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

Yesterday, I was using a fury and pulled off a chain of Twirl Kicks and Ten-Shadow-Punches. I had 2 Health left (I turned on showhealth), and I killed six or seven enemies with hacked health (100-350 health) without taking a hit.
I can probably get the supers started whenever I want to use them, (almost all the time). Twister kick I don't use much since yes, I dodge their attack but I can never seem to hit the enemy either. Willow kick gets blocked a lot... Crescent kick is not very useful, but isn't blocked as much as the spinning sidekick.

I don't bother with the combos when I can just completely spam supers and be an unstoppable cyclone. The only combo I consistently use is the ninja unending combo.


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#6 30/11/07 18:02

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

It's all about the timing, gorilla. You're probably treating this somewhat like most QCF/HCB/DPM-style fighting games, I think -- that is, you're pressing Right and holding it for a bit while you press Forward when you do a Twister Kick, and the same for Back and then Forward during the Willow Kick motion. You're supposed to release the first button completely and immediately press the second. So, to do a Twister Kick, you tap Right, and as Konoko's starting to move right, you press Forward + Kick. Actually, even the Forward + Kick is usually better if you release Forward an instant before pressing Kick.

As for the Twister Kick's uses, that's probably the only move which I don't think I've completely mastered. It's sometimes useful when you want an enemy in front of you to be knocked left or right rather than straight back (ie, when you're fighting near a ledge), and it's useful against certain dash-in or jump-in attacks, but it takes precise aim. For example, Blue Strikers _love_ to jump in on you, and Ninja sometimes leap in with kicks as well. Countering the former with a Twister Kick is often quite easy; the latter takes accuracy and timing, and you're usually better off rolling to the side and countering with the move of your choice.

The Willow Kick is _quite_ useful. Don't underestimate it. A single Willow Kick can stun an enemy long enough for you to walk around behind him and break his back. Also, since any part of Konoko's leg acts as a stunning Willow Kick at any point during the forward-lunging part of the animation, you can often hit two or even three enemies standing close together if you aim during the move (ie, hit one, then aim at the next while she's still moving forward). You won't have time to break _all_ their backs, but one will be a goner and that's always useful. The problem is that not all enemies are vulnerable to Willow Kick stun: any enemy with the standard civilian/scientist/TCTF Operative (including Griffin)/Communications Striker/etc moveset, as well as snipers, Furies, Muro himself, and probably some other guys I'm missing will all just be knocked back as if it were a normal attack. It's great against Tankers (because backbreakers are one of the few things which can quickly reduce a Red Tanker's health), Ninja (despite their name, they really don't dodge or block nearly as well as Furies, and once you hit 'em with a Willow Kick and break their back they're guaranteed to be dead), TCTF Swat Troopers (and their Black Op counterparts) and Elite Strikers. It works on Strikers too, of course, but backbreakers tend to be overkill on them except for maybe the Red ones, so it's best not to waste your time. wink

So, yeah, learn to use the Willow Kick. It makes Barabas and Mukade pathetic pushovers, really, though Mukade needs to be cornered first or he'll just back-dodge and then teleport, and Barabas might whip out an Earthquaker when you're not expecting it, so be prepared to dash away.

Last edited by Ultimatum479 (30/11/07 18:04)


Work in progress...

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#7 30/11/07 19:47

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

"It's all about the timing, gorilla." LMAO
BTW, combos are easier in Konoko Payne.
And we can make them easier in Oni, too.
Just state a clear idea of what you want.

Last edited by geyser (30/11/07 19:51)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#8 30/11/07 22:17

gorilla325
Member
Registered: 29/11/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

thanks for all the advice, espeically Ultimatum479!  you were right, i did not press the buttom quick enough to perform both moves.  i now can do both fairly easily when not facing real enemies.  smile  facing enemies would throw off my timing, but that's another story. 

what's konoko payne?  tongue  how  can you make them easier in Oni?

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#9 1/12/07 13:46

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

Facing enemies won't throw off your timing once doing the moves becomes a thing of habit. Practice them until it's subconscious, until you can pull off the move the moment you think "Willow Kick" or "Devil Spin Kick".

I second gorilla's second question, not because I want it to happen but out of curiosity.


Work in progress...

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#10 4/12/07 23:07

gorilla325
Member
Registered: 29/11/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

good god, i am getting quite good with twister kick and willow kick!  there're multiple times that i twistered to kick a bunch of enemies at once!  awesome!  big_smile 

now, i would like ask is there a good way to string devil spin kick or rising fury into combos?

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#11 5/12/07 6:04

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

Yeah, it's possible to combo 'em in from some moves. Still, the best time to use 'em is when you crouch to duck an attack and then counter by releasing the move.


Work in progress...

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#12 5/12/07 7:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

what's konoko payne?  tongue  how  can you make them easier in Oni?

Konoko Payne is a hobby project by a guy called Pierre: http://www.codercorner.com/Oni.htm
Remarkably, Pierre has made most of Konoko's combos much easier to pull off than in Oni.

There are a few ways to simplify Oni's combos.
First, by tweaking timers in Oni's animation data (TRAM).
That can make some button-pressing time spans larger.

Second, one can "bind" specials to improbable non-combat moves, with scripts.
A trivial thing is, e.g., to wait for a taunt animation and override it with a DSK.
Another, less trivial thing is to detect specific, timed sequences of movements.
For example, you can do a RTK by pressing LEFT, RIGHT in quick succession.
And a LTK by pressing RIGHT, LEFT. And a WK by pressing BACK, FORWARD.
Here's an example of one such "new combo" I set up for Konoko a while ago:
http://oni.bungie.org/forums/index.php? … #post_4839

Finally, you can use so-called "cutscene animations", bound to 2 hotkeys. In order for the hotkeys to work, you have to be "recording" a "film"...
The default hotkeys are F2 and F3, which you can bind to any animation, e.g., by "scripting" sc_bind_f2= KONCOMkick_heavy at the console.
The default keys for starting/stopping film recording are F9/F10. To use those hotkeys, you have to either edit key_config.txt or use the Dev Mode.
Note that cutscene animations are a PC-only feature at the moment.

Last edited by geyser (5/12/07 11:27)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#13 5/12/07 12:31

gorilla325
Member
Registered: 29/11/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

wow, that konoko payne coder is ambitious!  it's almost 10 years, is it?  can't wait!  he said it's a combination of payne, oni, sonic, and thunder cat(thunder cat??)!  WoW! 

so, geyser, what you are saying is that one way to simplify the control is by using the WASD to perform combo without clicking mouses?

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#14 5/12/07 13:16

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

Note that cutscene animations are a PC-only feature at the moment.

at the moment... hmmm... does this mean the Oni dev team has something up their sleeve? hmm

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#15 8/12/07 19:51

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

@ gorilla: Not just WASD. There are a lot of "usused" sequences that can be used to trigger combos: "contradictory" directional input is just an example.
@ Ed: Well, who knows what'll happen once the next Daodan is out. It will make the PC so overwhelmingly superior that we'll have to give you something.
Seriously, it will be hard to bring OMNI's port on par with the Daodanned PC version, but at the very least we'd like to add "must-have" scripting functions.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#16 9/12/07 11:06

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

at the very least we'd like to add "must-have" scripting functions.

That would be great!  Then Mac users will be able to play more of the modded scripts. smile

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#17 9/12/07 21:30

Orochi Konoko
Member
From: TCTF Regional Headquarters
Registered: 10/8/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

The Crescent Moon kick. I tend to usually get the timing of the buttons messed up.


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#18 9/12/07 22:34

gorilla325
Member
Registered: 29/11/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

yeah, taht move is hard to pull off. though i kind find a way to be more successful.  i press and hold forward a bit quicker than kick.  i think somebody mentioned it too few posts up.

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#19 9/12/07 23:05

Your_Mom
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 31/1/07
Website

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

I practiced Crescent Moon Kick a lot and I still can only pull it off about 50% of the times I want it to >.>

I still can't get the willow kick to work for me... it gets blocked every time I pull it off...or it ends up hitting someone unaffected.


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#20 10/12/07 14:30

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

EdT wrote:

at the very least we'd like to add "must-have" scripting functions.

That would be great!  Then Mac users will be able to play more of the modded scripts. smile

I really miss chr_focus.  Makes it very hard to experiment in realtime with a level from the console.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#21 29/1/08 9:28

Mukade's_Finest
Member
Registered: 29/1/08

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

The only problem I've ever had is willow kick. The back animation makes it difficult to aim and the stun isn't quite long enough to put in a BB most of the time. Generally, I back units against the wall for a PPP which knocks them down followed by a RF which hits them on the ground. This even works against ninjas if your timing is good enough. I also use PP which staggers the enemy followed by a CMK. CMK is a totaltally underated move as it does a whole lot of damage. And I absolutely love TK. The timing is misleading but it's an extremely effective dodge/counter.

But what about Mukade's infinite combo? If you have an enemy against a wall, you can PPKPPKPPKPPK forever They never fall down and the stagger from his kick sets them up for another PP. Against most opponents though, it's really unecessary because his PPKKKK combo kills lower level units.

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#22 29/1/08 13:20

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

The Willow Kick's stun is almost _always_ enough for a Backbreaker, MF. Try dashing or rolling instead of calmly walking around behind your opponent while he recovers. ^_^ Also, Konoko's backward motion just before the Willow Kick is a bonus because it's a useful dodge. It really shouldn't be a hindrance to aiming in terms of left-to-right accuracy, unless you mean that it shortens the range of her move significantly, which it does.


Work in progress...

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#23 29/1/08 14:53

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: any moves you can't successfully pull off constatly?

for Mukade's_Finest and for all as well: Ninja's cheap infinite rave kicks were fixed in the latest version of TRAM set (version 1.02). Now you can't spam rave kicks forever as it forces you to do a pause if you want to interrupt P_P_K_K_K_K_K combo by any other move.


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