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#1 3/11/13 23:44

munkyh3ad
Member
Registered: 3/11/13

Need help with game progress/mods

Hello all,

My name is Alin and i'm from Romania in SE Europe. I've recently decided to replay Oni and searching for mods i've found this forum. I have installed the AE found here on forum, with the AE selected and added some mods but in chapter 3 i get stuck so i will need your help to figure it out.

Here is a screenshot of the mods i have added.
21yo.jpg

I played Chapters 1 & 2 with no problems but on "Chapter 3: The Manufacturing Plant" i have some issues, so i'll explain:

1) I get confused by the (custom) cutscene/intro thing, when i and 4 light TCTF and Casey (?) sit outside to chat for too long about nothing. And then Casey and 1 light TCTF get inside, suddenly Barabas appears and we all get into a small fight, then Barabas explains how he was captured by the TCTF and reprogrammed, then by the Syndicate and again reprogrammed, and now he is here to attack us, but he doesn't want to, but he has a command so he does it. So i don't get it, i'm sorry, it is too confusing to understand what is going on with Barabas's appearance here and why and how.

2) Then, the 3 light TCTFs just stick to me like glue, always in my face and honestly they are more trouble then any help, shooting me in the back when i have a foe in front of me or running in front of me and stopping (usually blocking a door) and so on. I just have to kill them, sorry.

3) Consoles trouble, and after more than 5 tries of guessing the path i simply get stuck. I'll post screenshots of the console activation order:

(this is after entering the door to the right of the entrance desk, actually the only one opened and that green data console is the only working one)
8kjn.jpg
(this is the back side after entering the now opened door from left of the entrance desk, and this green data console is the only working one)
rzke.jpg
(now i get back to the door from the right of the entrance desk and proceed further inside until i get to a fake alarm that i have to activate)
r0et.jpg
(and now i can go in the side room from after the door to the right of the entrance desk, and this console is now working and i activate it)
l5cl.JPG
(i go up to the 1st floor and kill some foes and then i get "your hunch was right" Griffin cutscene and further i find this only 1 working console)
0gik.jpg
(so this is where i'm stuck no matter what i do, and any Chapter save i select gets a restart, it load from start with the cutscene/intro thing)
i50m.jpg
- if i try to pass through the lazers i get killed, you can't avoid them because they are super fast and the turret above is just cruel
- blue door (even if last console had the blue door sign) will not open (not sure it is supposed to, since console signs don't match doors anyway)
- if i jump down to the left of the ledge i can't get back up again, because the door after going up to 1st floor will not open anymore

So what to do? Am i doing something wrong or am i missing something? Is there a conflict between some mods?
Thank you for your time and sorry for the long post.

Last edited by munkyh3ad (3/11/13 23:48)

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#2 4/11/13 3:24

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Yeah those level mods are pretty damn weird, I'd recommend disabling Mariachi's level mods since they have some design issues.


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#3 4/11/13 8:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

munkyh3ad — Welcome to the forum.  But you've also made me a little sad.  If you look down the list of mods, you'll see that they are made by many different people over the course of a few years.  It would be nice if all those mods were designed to work together, but such a thing is also impossible.  There's countless ways that using this many mods could break your experience.  In fact I'm surprised that the game is running at all.

Have you read each mod to know what it does?  You've taken a lot of time to document your experience in Chapter 2 (not 3), but it seems that you didn't take the time to read about the actual mods you selected.  Or perhaps we've misrepresented the overall nature of the mods as something that was designed to be a unified system, as we've had a few users do this sort of thing.  The fact is that some of those mods' creators haven't even met each other, let alone were they working together when they made their mods.

It's not recommended to install more than maybe 15 mods at a time because Oni's engine has lots of limitations that are easy to hit, and you've also installed several unrelated mods that alter levels and add new ones.  This will not produce any kind of coherent gameplay.  You've also checked multiple character re-texture mods which are probably overwriting one another and thus wasting your time during installation.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.  First select mods carefully and judiciously one at a time according to Creator and Description, then come back here and ask for help if those mods don't work together smile  Thanks.


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#4 4/11/13 9:23

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Holly Smolly ^_^
I'm surprised it didn't crash at start with so many mods installed. The welcome window that appears when the installer starts first time warns not to install many mods.

but to answer your question quickly what's happening is SMP-Conversion, my mod, is getting mixed up with the Mariachi old scripts as both affect chapter 2 and have different stories. So, it seems you're getting a bit from both at the same time which won't work ... it's never a good idea to install several bsl mods that affect same levels; my mod's description says:  "Incompatible with other mods that modify the scripts or BINACJBOCharacter files of original levels." ...
so simply uncheck all the Mariachi scripts 90125, 90126, 90127 and hit install again  .... as Lithium said.
I'll update my package SMP-Conversion to add incompatibility with the Mariachi scripts so user will get warned that these packs shouldn't be installed together. (I thought I did before)

and another advice uninstall the mods you don't need, example: dadonized mukade, unless you're playing as mukade and using a hypo to overpower, you don't need this.
brutal AI and brutal konoko: you only need one of these, read their description.
new levels : if you're only planning on doing a rerun of the original levels, you don't need the new levels now ... once you finish it you can install the new levels one by one and play them.
too many texture packs (blackops syndicate, HD menus, realistic skies, bozzman tctf)  may slow your game down, and too many packs that contain particles may cause it to crash. Keep in mind this is an old game, and despite all the progress we've made it still has its limitations.
and the most important thing as Iritscen said, please read the description of each mod thoroughly, and check its date ... if it's been several years since the mod was made or updated then you should be more careful with it. and re-read the welcome screen points.
If you have other issues concerning particular mods you should report them on that mod's forum page linked in the description so the owner gets notified. (I'm subscribed by email to all my mods' threads.)
and enjoy ^_^

Last edited by Samer (4/11/13 9:54)


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#5 5/11/13 1:47

munkyh3ad
Member
Registered: 3/11/13

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Thank you all for your quick reply, it has been helpful and solved my problem.

I think i understand how AE works and installed as many mods as it would let me but at the same time i also had to chose to pass on some, all this after i had read the mods descriptions (ex: chose 1 out of all the level modifications from mods like the airport and others) but before i started playing i was not aware from the description that Samer's pack "earlier levels" where Casey is introduced meant he will appear at the "Manufacturing Plant" level that MBear Manplant's mod also alters.

Other new levels like Old China and Muro's lair i chose to install because they didn't override the existing levels, even if they don't fit in the story they are separate and accessible through the save menu and i was just too curious after reading some forum posts. Also for the time being i chose to leave out any arena/gauntlet/beat-em-up mod until i finish the story replay, but will surely try many of them when i'm done.

As for the re-texture mods i chose everything that improved and did my best to chose, didn't install Severed's re-textures, HQ Ninjas by Uroboros and others that i thought were (re-)done in other mods. It seems all good now, even thou you say i have made some mistakes unfortunately i still don't know which ones overwrite each other. But if in the future i encounter issues i will look deeper into this. 

I think i will keep dadonized mukade for future entertaining "fight" levels. Brutal AI wins over Brutal Konoko since it is included, sorry i missed this detail at the beginning. The re-textures of blackops syndicate, HD menus, realistic skies, bozzman tctf don't affect my gameplay so i will keep them if they don't interfere with other meshes or level mods. Also i did pay attention when adding mods and deliberately i chose to leave out many particle mods (ex: Exploding barrel, H2W, Dash Blur, or Particle trails) which all would have been cool but i think could have affected my gameplay.

With all said, i uninstalled some mods and could't keep myself from installing 2 or 3 more, and this is what is working good now:
2np1.jpg
So far i've finished Chapter 5: Airport Cargo Hangers and i am surprised that i did not encounter any dogs (from Guard Dogs mod by EdT). Strange, I will play Chapter 5 again, because on some loads after death i know i saw some Tankers being replaced with Casual Tankers or Strikers with Black Strikers, so i guess it's a random enemy generation in some places and the game might have not spawned the Dogs yet.

I know 54 mods added is double the recommended nr, but my regrets are few, leaving out some particle scripts (maybe will test them) and having to take out "Better Warehouse & Training" by bozzman since with this mod added when i load any save i just get a white screen (instead of the Chapter Screen) and when i click or hit any key the screen dims out and game just closes, no error no nothing.

Last edited by munkyh3ad (5/11/13 2:01)

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#6 5/11/13 1:52

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

That seems more manageable.


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#7 5/11/13 9:23

munkyh3ad
Member
Registered: 3/11/13

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

sad I am stuck again. This time on Chapter 8: Interior of the Atmospheric Conversion Center after i kill the Grey Fury (boss-like) nothing happens. I remember Shinatama is supposed to explode, but she won't talk to me after i kill the Grey Fury, and if i kick her she gets up and i can slightly push her forward by kicking her repeatedly. Might this be because i have 2 Shinatama mods? Or might it be the Grey Fury mod?
eubi.jpg
Also i'd like to know if the "BlackOps Syndicate" by TOCS feat Samer is just a mesh or these black foes are somewhat more challenging than their regular type that they can replace. Because i can't get the Dogs from "Guard Dogs" by EdT to spawn in the hangar level and i think i'll chose to drop the BlackOps if they are just another color, so maybe this way the Dogs will spawn.

Last edited by munkyh3ad (5/11/13 9:27)

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#8 5/11/13 12:08

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

The Guard Dogs package is not compatible with Sam Mega Pack Conversion, so that is why you don't see them.
Guard Dogs modifies the BINACJBOCharacter file in the lab and hanger level to replace some characters with the guard dogs.  However, SMP-Conversion also modifies the same file.  Since it has a higher package number, it overwrites the Guard Dogs changes.

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#9 5/11/13 16:39

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

yes, Blackops syndicate is just another skin\color that randomly appears instead of the red ones without any other significant difference besides the color.
for the guard dogs : as Ed said. However the guard dogs are still usable as characters so i didn't include it as an incompatibility.
regarding the bozzman level texture packs: I'm guessing the white thing is due to memory overload and not the mods themselves.

regarding the grey fury issue :
something strange happened there, grey fury is supposed to have a dialogue and vanish after you defeat her (like the regenerating tanker before in the airport). The fact that her body is still there means there's some glitch.
looking at the mods list I don't see any mods that could cause that; both Shinatamatoo and Shinatamabot are compatible with this mod. I've also retested the mod and it works on my end.
So my guess is this is a one time glitch thing... how many times did this happen ?
try activating the developer mode (tap F1 then x then F1) and once you defeat the grey fury check if there's any error showing up to the left of the screen. report it, if you do get an error.
another thing is to check if the package is complete \ downloaded correctly .. right click on the SMP-Conversion package in the ae installer and select open mod folder. then go to bsl\common\power_II  inside that folder you should see 5 files of type bsl.

Last edited by Samer (5/11/13 16:48)


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#10 5/11/13 22:44

munkyh3ad
Member
Registered: 3/11/13

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

From what i've seen on forum i would have really liked to go up against the Guard Dogs, but i just can't take out Sam's Mega Pack Conversion since it ads so much to the game. I guess i have to leave "BlackOps Syndicate" in and take out "Guard Dogs" unfortunately.

For the mod "Better Warehouse & Training" by bozzman where i have memory overload, is this happening because of the many mods i have added in the game, or can i kill other process like AV or something to free memory and get it to work in game?

And for the Grey Fury this happens all the time, she never has dialogue, i have to get really close to her so that she attacks me, she has green trail on special moves, also has a "Van de Graff" that after unloading any or all 5 charges in me and i disarm her the "Van de Graff" drops with full amo, thou she won't pick it up again. I know she is Skull Team so i guess i'm missing the dialogue, maybe some green fireflies (Regen Tanker had yellow/orange fireflies before i did some damage to him) and she will not teleport away after i beat her, but she drops the 2 Hypos and a green Energy Cell.

In the mod folder i have these 5 files, particle_scripts.bsl (3.5KB) power2_spawn.bsl (11.9KB) power_II_GreyFuryMechanics.bsl (27,1KB) power_II_main.bsl (1.27KB) powerII_cutscene.bsl (14.0KB) and in the developer mode when i walk near her body i get this on the bottom of the screen: Func "fGreyFury_TrigVolInnerEntry", File "(called form engine)", Line 0: semantic error, Func "fGreyFury_TrigVolInnerEntry" does not exist

Last edited by munkyh3ad (6/11/13 4:23)

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#11 6/11/13 11:04

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

munkyh3ad wrote:

For the mod "Better Warehouse & Training" by bozzman where i have memory overload, is this happening because of the many mods i have added in the game, or can i kill other process like AV or something to free memory and get it to work in game?

If your computer was made in the last few years, it's probably not running out of overall application memory for Oni (nor VRAM).  It's just that Oni itself was not designed to handle the amount of data you're throwing at it.  Unfortunately we don't know all the limits ourselves, in terms of the exact number of textures that might cause a problem, etc.  That's why, as a blanket rule, we suggest no more than 30 mods, even if you don't think they are overlapping each other.  Personally I don't think I'd go above 15.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#12 6/11/13 17:01

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Alin, I'm not sure what is causing this glitch with your grey fury encounter ... my original grey fury encounter script was improved by Loser and his scripts are a bit more advanced than my bsl skill level so I'm not fully able to assess the problem. Loser or paradox if you're reading this could you help figure this out ?

but I need to ask how exactly are you killing the grey fury ? do you shoot her with the sbg from a far distance ? this could be causing the glitch ... i see sbg marks on the floor, Loser's modification should prevent you from doing that, shinatama was made to have very low health and be vulnerable to weapons so that if you shoot the grey fury with sbg near shinatama you'll be killing shini too and ending the level.
also the grey fury should glow green (the fireflies) and talk to you when you come close to her, if you're shooting her from a far distance this might be causing it to skip that part somehow. You also mentioned she's shooting you multiple times with the vdg, again not supposed to happen :\ she's supposed to shoot you once and holster her weapon if you go far and then come near again...  so can you try defeating her without weapon use ?

(you can activate the cheats liveforever and touchofdeath to kill the enmies before her quickly so you don't have to repeat the whole thing to retest each time)

also your mod overload could be causing Oni's memory to fail to load the script correctly, this happened with me sometimes on other mods...  could you try this with fewer mods? (with its dependencies and my character retexture pack, should be fine as I've made it using those mods) but you can temporarily disable the airport textures since you've already played that , all the barabas mods since you've already defeated him and he won't be appearing again, the new levels, the weapon mods, and my bgi characters and guarddogs as they don't make an appearance in the main story and these have a load of particles.  just to see if this level would work correctly then, it was never tested with that many mods. then after you finish the level you can reinstall them but again it's not recommended to install that much ... you can still install them later when you're done with the main story, so let's just be on the safe side, there's no need to overload the game with mods you are not actively using.

if all else fails and as a last resort, once you defeat the grey fury stand near shinatama, activate developer mode F1, x, F1 then bring up the console by pressing ~ and type shin_check   this should start shini's cutscene and allow you to continue ... press ~ again to close the console.
btw i see you also have my hidden treasure challenge mod, you may want to look upstairs before you trigger shini's cutscene.

Last edited by Samer (6/11/13 17:06)


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#13 6/11/13 17:23

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Fwiw, installing mods is a fast process when you're not installing tons of stuff, so I don't think it's too laborious to change your mod setup every few days.  Also, you can save lists of active mods and load them again later to avoid having to re-check the checkboxes one by one.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#14 7/11/13 13:40

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

"And for the Grey Fury this happens all the time, she never has dialogue"
For testing it's helpful to have the *.xml mod list.
Otherwise I don't want to try my luck on this problem.

Last edited by paradox-01 (7/11/13 13:41)

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#15 8/11/13 1:55

munkyh3ad
Member
Registered: 3/11/13

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

@Samer Thank you for the support, this weekend when i get more time i will try everything i can think of and share the results.

@Iritscen I will make more list setups, based on different story re-plays, arenas and others because i want to see all mods somehow.

@paradox-01 I will try more setups soon to see how the game behaves but until then i have saved my current setup:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/duuibklxw8504vu/munkyh3ad%20setup.xml

Last edited by munkyh3ad (8/11/13 2:35)

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#16 8/11/13 14:55

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Dashing AI (42000) overwrites power_II BSL of Sam Mega Pack - Conversion (22006).
Uninstall Dashing AI to play Gray Fury part as intended with dialog.

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#17 9/11/13 11:39

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

thanks for the answer paradox. I wasn't aware that the dashing AI pack had bsl files ... I'll add it to my package's incompatibility list.
so yeah Alin that's the fix for it .. disregard my previous suggestions for the grey fury.

Last edited by Samer (9/11/13 11:42)


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#18 10/11/13 9:28

munkyh3ad
Member
Registered: 3/11/13

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Thank you paradox-01 for looking into this and solving the issue. big_smile

Ok, so i've removed the "Dashing Ai" by geyser & EdT and now i guess it works as i should. I get the dialogue, she has green fireflies, now she holsters her "Van de Graff", she gets back to Shinatama if i try to lure her away, she teleports after i defeat her, and also Shinatama is now sensitive to damage and i lose the mission if she gets hurt. All these didn't happen before so i think all is good now since i could move foreword.

But since i've passed this area can i add the "Dashing Ai" back? Because dashing and turning sideways is more challenging to evade foes that just me dashing away and waiting for the foes to catch up so i can perform some special move. And since the AI can keep up it can also use a behind grab move on me if i stop since my back is at the AI, otherwise i think it can't land those moves. Also i'm more likely to use a back-kick or a back-elbow-hit since i know the AI keeps up with me even if i dash away and is more useful to perform those moves then stopping and turning.

Or could it be possible to add this AI Dashing feature to the "Brutal AI" by Loser or generally make it so that it doesn't overwrite anything from "Sam Mega Pack - Conversion"? I know i can make multiple lists and keep installing them for any level, but since the Regenerating Tanker had no issue it makes me think that the Grey Fury could have no issue as well. But i am uneducated in moding so i may not understand how things really work together.

And 1 more question. Why in the "Mandatory Training" "Syndicate Warehouse" and "The Manufacturing Plant" chapters when items or weapons are on the ground it shows message with name (and ammunition count for weapons) and on all other chapters it doesn't. Is this normal?

Last edited by munkyh3ad (10/11/13 9:35)

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#19 10/11/13 12:23

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

I can answer the last question: yes  smile   Oni shows the weapon names (and the Daodan DLL adds the ammo count) only in the early levels as a sort of "new player aid".


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#20 10/11/13 14:11

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

"But since i've passed this area can i add the "Dashing Ai" back?"
Yep.

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#21 10/11/13 15:56

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

Mmm if you want to keep using dashing ai with my mod don't update my mod to the latest version cz  I've added the incompatability and they won't be installed together anymore. If you already updated open the mod.cfg file in my pack  with a text editor, and remove the 42000 from the line that says incompatiblewith.  But my question is why does the dashing ai have bsl in the first place ... im guessing the tctf fan scene ... cant it be modified to only affect that part of the bsl instead of the entire thing ?

@iritscen ... or because no one fixed it and added it to the dll like was intented initially and as ive discussed on the bug tracker tongue

Last edited by Samer (10/11/13 16:12)


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#22 10/11/13 16:30

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

I don't think it's so much a matter of "initial intent", as much as the feature just wasn't thought out very well in advance smile  Unless I'm mistaken, the ammo readout is being piggybacked onto the existing pickup message, so once the pickup messages stop displaying, as determined by the ONGS, the ammo readout goes away too.  But this is of course not very logical, since the pickup message is an aid for newbies and the ammo readout would be useful throughout the game.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#23 11/11/13 5:30

munkyh3ad
Member
Registered: 3/11/13

Re: Need help with game progress/mods

@Iritscen Ok, so they are sort of early hints and when the "hints" stop the ammo count stops as well. Bummer! They would have been good all over the game, obviously for the ammo but items as well since sometimes the body(s) can cover drops, especially near walls or objects.

@paradox-01 So i'm guessing (if) the next time i fight the Grey Fury all will be fine. I will progress with the "Dashing Ai" and see how it goes.

@Samer Is it the "Mod_Info.cfg" from the "22006Sam_Mega_Pack_-_Conversion" folder in "packages" folder that i should remove the 42000 from?
Yes it must be, i have been able to add both mods by editing that file with WordPad.

Last edited by munkyh3ad (11/11/13 5:42)

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