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#1 1/7/13 1:29

Samer
Member

NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

After almost 2 years since I started working on this character, It's finally ready for download.
The old (pre-release) discussion of this mod is found here

Mod Description
This mod adds a new character : Sarai  or the female BGI Boss.
Sarai, second in command to the BGI-executives, is ruthless, dangerous, highly skilled, and devoted to the BGI.
Combining agility, speed and power she is a force to reckon with.

*Sarai uses many new custom made moves (the most custom moves to date in any of my characters)
*4 outfits are included : black skirt - green skirt - armored - jacket


Check this Video that showcases all her new moves ! : video link

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MrYoetth9tiYtr8jh-S1D4bmibgcQj8L9qjVWimi1BY=w868-h563


Download package 22015 through the AEInstaller.


Additional Credits
The skirt outfits are based on DarkLitria's sketch seen here
The head mesh is from a project started by Lapis which was later abandoned found here
The original static kick throw animation is made by Andrew\Mukade and the jumpflip animation by paradox.


Note for modders: her melee profile ID is 125 available in my custom melee profile package.

Last edited by Samer (12/7/14 18:57)


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#2 1/7/13 3:05

Lithium
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Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

OMG FINALLY

Gonna have some fun later


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#3 1/7/13 7:03

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

the showcase video is now available : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldVEmOV8 … e=youtu.be
guys if you like this please leave me a comment smile


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#4 1/7/13 7:33

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

sorry to double post ... something was wrong with the package ... (I arranged the folders wrong) fixed it now, so if anyone already downloaded this please re-download or open the package and make a folder called common in the oni folder and move the level0_Final to it.
so it becomes 22015BGI_Sarai\oni\common\level0_Final\etc instead of 22015BGI_Sarai\oni\level0_Final\etc


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#5 1/7/13 8:24

EdT
Moderator

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Samer: You really did an awesome job on Sarai, the outfits are great and all her custom moves are amazing!

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#6 1/7/13 19:44

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Sarai's heavy kick is inspired by Vergil's Lunar Phase attack from Devil May Cry 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZg8ZQSW … e=youtu.be

thanks EdT and Lithium.
I hope others try this too :\ after 2 years in the making I expected a better response from users to be honest ^_^

Last edited by Samer (1/7/13 19:46)


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#7 1/7/13 20:43

Lithium
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Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Slow time of year I assume


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#8 2/7/13 14:32

Loser
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Samer, can I ask why the Sarai's package alters vanilla Konoko's Crescent Moon Kick?
Anyway, about the character itself:

If viewed as a standalone test of your modding skills, then hands down it is one great project, featuring quite a number of new animations and using some pretty nice concepts (dual attacks for instance).
Also the model (be it standard or armored) is really nice, I like what you did with the hair. And of course mini skirts are good to be peeked under, however its pitch black there ^_^.

Unfortunately, from any other point of view, this is one insanely overpowered character, even for a boss like purposes.
Quick test - I am able to take out Brutal AI RegenFury without any problem within a few minutes, just by spamming PPKK combo, kick special and by moving around by constantly abusing dodge maneouvers.

Comments go as follow:

Dodge moves

  • Animated kind of nicely. It could be better if Sarai performed the evasive pirouettes by actually moving her leges, but whatever, this is just a mod so no hard feelings.
     

  • However, what cannot be overlooked is the fact evasive moves are set to be melee-invulnerable for almost whole execution time. Combined with the fact these moves have no slowdown at the end (no "recovery phase"), it is possible to spam them freely. And that grants the Sarai character ability to move on the battlefield while being melee-invulnerable for 99.9 % of the time.
    That is not really a good idea in my opinion. It would be better to make the melee-invulnerable windows cover only the start of evasive moves.


Combo attacks

  • A punch (P) has no soft pause and leaves the defender in 3 frames disadvantage on block. That means with pinpoint timing (which AI is capable of), the defender can be block-locked just by spamming a simple punch. Add some soft pause and the problem is gone.

     

  • PPK attack leaves the defender in 18 frames disadvantage be it on block or on hit, and that is seriously broken. It means the last kick (PPKK) of the combo will ALWAYS hit if the PPK connects. It cannot be blocked even when PPK is blocked due to high frame disadvantage on block. Please soften the block stagger on PPK and things will go more smoothly for defenders.

     

  • It is appreciated how the Crescent Moon Kick (KKKfw) is softened. Vanilla one is set to be unblockable and even melee-invulnerable. Good job with making the move more balanced.


Single Attacks

  • Punch heavy features an unblockable attack part. Since the punch heavy is set to be a "double-attack" and the main attack part deals 1/2 damage on block, setting the second one of attacks to be completely unblockable is a bit overkill in my opinion.

     

  • Kick special is neatly animated, nice job. And it is overpowered so much that even Vegeta's scouter cannot handle such a power level. An attack which covers medium area around the attacker, makes almost whole body of the attacker dangerous and deals unblockable 15 damage + 5 extra if the enemy is a male character (since female knockdowns are set to be invulnerable)? Nice, just add invulnerability for almost the whole move (it is unsafe only for the very first 5 frames) and the recipe for a gameplay balance disaster is ready to be served. Vanilla ninjas maybe use similar technique, however they are locked in place as far as XZ movement goes, which is what makes their special move balanced.
     
    At the minimum, please replace the unblockable attacks with 1/2 damage staggers on block, enlarge the initial vulnerable window (10 to 16 frames) and please make the move vulnerable near the end of the technique.

     

  • Low kick and Bk-Fw kick are very, very spammable. Yes, vanilla fury's kick low is spammable as well, however that is no reason to make the nasty can of spam even larger than it already is from vanilla.


Throws

  • Throws are very nice, especially the new standing kick one. Nothing to complain about, maybe make the running kick throw (Split kick over the head jump) deal less damage, since the opponent just somehow falls. Core of that move is to humiliate the enemy, and man, it does the job well ^_^


In conclusion, while this mod is awesome (double awesome given your restricted resources, hint hint the "hate your country" thread), I will not play with it as it suffers the same problem as for example the BGI robot - clearly unfairly stronger than the vanilla crew. Personally I like fair challenge, not the challenge based on the fact enemy has unblockable medium-distance reach special attacks and stun locking combos.

But once again, as a standalone mod it is neat. Really neat. Especially the model ^_^.


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#9 2/7/13 16:02

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Loser wrote:

Samer, can I ask why the Sarai's package alters vanilla Konoko's Crescent Moon Kick?

oops left over files .. was comparing konoko's one and forgot to remove the files later.

However, what cannot be overlooked is the fact evasive moves are set to be melee-invulnerable for almost whole execution time. Combined with the fact these moves have no slowdown at the end (no "recovery phase"), it is possible to spam them freely. And that grants the Sarai character ability to move on the battlefield while being melee-invulnerable for 99.9 % of the time.
That is not really a good idea in my opinion. It would be better to make the melee-invulnerable windows cover only the start of evasive moves.

I wanted to emulate the ninja shadow dash package which also makes the ninjas invulnerable (also particle attack invulnerable) almost all the execution time, I initially gave her those moves but wanted something that makes her look more graceful so this is modified from mukade's teleportation move, (I'm also kinda a newbie at custom animations, I wanted it to look more graceful but that's all I could do with it for now) .. the idea was she's spinning kinda deflecting the attacks .. it also doesn't cover as much distance as the other dodges say Konoko's back cartswheel and is shorter in frames so even if it may be completely invulnerable the total number of invulnerable frames isn't that different from other escape moves, so in my tests I found decreasing the invulnerability further made the dodge move completely useless. I'll see if the end of the animation (once she stops spinning) can be made vulnerable without losing it's usefulness all together. Or i'll add a pause (she gets dizzy tongue)


A punch (P) has no soft pause and leaves the defender in 3 frames disadvantage on block. That means with pinpoint timing (which AI is capable of), the defender can be block-locked just by spamming a simple punch. Add some soft pause and the problem is gone.

guess I forgot that one. I had a problem with the punches because they're mixed from konoko's p, muro's pp modified in xsi and then a modified konoko forward punch .. it seemed that when I put some pauses the combo won't continue. it would go p - p and stops or p awkward pause pp :\ eventually i got tired of it tongue


PPK attack leaves the defender in 18 frames disadvantage be it on block or on hit, and that is seriously broken. It means the last kick (PPKK) of the combo will ALWAYS hit if the PPK connects. It cannot be blocked even when PPK is blocked due to high frame disadvantage on block. Please soften the block stagger on PPK and things will go more smoothly for defenders.

yeah that was kinda intentional, I felt if one goes through the trouble of all that combo P P K K and it's all blocked then it's useless and a huge disadvantage since the last part is really slow opening room for attack. so I wanted to make sure the only way to escape that move completely unharmed is to dodge it all together or dodge the ppk part, I might have gone overboard with it though ^_^ .. will see how i can tone it down. But i also don't want it to be stand still and you'll automatically block the whole combo.


Punch heavy features an unblockable attack part. Since the punch heavy is set to be a "double-attack" and the main attack part deals 1/2 damage on block, setting the second one of attacks to be completely unblockable is a bit overkill in my opinion.

for me the super moves should stand out from other moves they should be really "super" so imo they should be unblockable, only dodgable or what's the point of making them super moves. total damage points from the move are 15 from first part and 5 from the second = 20 as much as konoko's rising fury.
if first part is blocked: half damage = 7.5   5 = 12.5 which compared to konoko's heavy punch if blocked, half damage = 10 is not a big difference. if one dodges the move no damage is dealt which isn't hard to do.
in addition if the first part is blocked the second part is automatically blocked too (overlapping frames) that's why i had to make second part unblocakble or else the super punch won't be that super and will become a weakness.

Kick special is neatly animated, nice job. And it is overpowered so much that even Vegeta's scouter cannot handle such a power level. An attack which covers medium area around the attacker, makes almost whole body of the attacker dangerous and deals unblockable 15 damage   5 extra if the enemy is a male character (since female knockdowns are set to be invulnerable)

i don't know who the scouter is tongue but well yeah ^_^ that's her barabas earthquaker\mukade ninjafireball equivalent of sorts ^_^ from the looks of it spinning whole body at high speed I just don't see how it should be vulnerable,, I had it vulnerable at first but when someone would just grab her while she'd mid spinning and do a throw it looked so broken, 1 second she's spinning above their heads the second she's under muro getting her leg broken .. just looked wrong. (can it be made only throws invulnerable?) however the move is hard to aim, if character is close there's a high chance she'll just go over them (that's also why i had to make all body deal damage) and I found AI able to dodge it well enough in my tests, a simple crouch will make her go over their head, unless user really abuses the move consecutively but that can be said to all other moves, willow kick or forward kick for example or other super moves. so again importance of dodge not blocking here.

At the minimum, please replace the unblockable attacks with 1/2 damage staggers on block.

I just don't feel this move can be blocked looks wise, spinning at highspeed and landing the foot forcefully on their head, to just stand there and block will look silly imo, it should always knockdown target if it connects. But i'll consider lowering the damage to 10 + 5 instead of 15 + 5.

enlarge the initial vulnerable window (10 to 16 frames) and please make the move vulnerable near the end of the technique.

mm the invulnerability starts when she goes off the ground again to avoid the awkward  mid air grab and throw and ends the moment she lands. I'll see how the 10 frames will look, (or I'll add a pause after the move ... did that in the melee profile)

Low kick and Bk-Fw kick are very, very spammable. Yes, vanilla fury's kick low is spammable as well, however that is no reason to make the nasty can of spam even larger than it already is from vanilla.

yes but so is konoko's simple forward kick, you can keep kicking forward and follow with kick throw as seen in tens's videos, or 1 punch and throw or striker's low kick or elite's cannon ball or or ... I like the variety that moves have with the hit jewels and hit foot ouch, the back forward kick is hard to pull off by average players and both are completely blockable. Tankers and muro were especially hard to land the low kick on them.
also keeping in mind that all females are invulnerable to both of these attacks. I don't feel that they have that much of an advantage, if player decides to spam he'll find ways to do so no matter what the moves are.
I should also point out that Sarai is meant as an AI controlled character rather than a player character,like motoko for example she's too overpowered as a player character, In Sarai's melee profile I decreased the weight and increased the delay significantly for both of these moves.


Throws are very nice, especially the new standing kick one. Nothing to complain about, maybe make the running kick throw (Split kick over the head jump) deal less damage, since the opponent just somehow falls.

she's supposed to be jumping over them and pushing their head to the ground forcefully while doing so tongue don't know if that came across well enough, so the damage is dealt when their face smashes on the ground ^_^ painful ! .. she lacks truly powerful run throws like muro's neck breaker, konoko's lariat and tanker's and elite's run throws.

In conclusion, while this mod is awesome (double awesome given your restricted resources, hint hint the "hate your country" thread), I will not play with it as it suffers the same problem as for example the BGI robot - clearly unfairly stronger than the vanilla crew. Personally I like fair challenge, not the challenge based on the fact enemy has unblockable medium-distance reach special attacks and stun locking combos.

I think you mean BGI hammer ... (who imo the only really unfair part is his super kick draining all the shiled immediately, but it also can be interrupted with any weapon shot, even if player is being carried)
how do we make enemies challenging in Oni with the resources we have ? it's either one of these ways: make attacks more powerful, make characters block and dodge a lot more using melee profile modifications, or have a very high amount of health. Sarai has the powerful attacks and the quick dodges.
for Sarai she's not to be compared with vanilla ones or even the grey fury, she's THE ultimate boss, the highest ranked character in the BGI class, so she is supposed to be overpowered a bit and unique and her moves reflect that. as all bosses of games are, every boss in every game has some sort of move that can't be blocked or is invulnerable: devil may cry.. Bosses in DMC are hard as hell and that's what makes them memorable ... street fighter characters all have some special unblockable invulnerable move . that's the point of having special attacks, making them half damage, blockable and interruptable defeats the purpose imo.

is it impossible to defeat her ? I don't think it is, is it hard ? yes, it's supposed to be hard, after several deaths I could defeat her by correctly blocking her attacks and dodging the unblockable ones, so the usual kick forward, throw or lariat then ppk\jump flip techniques won't\shouldn't work on her. Using her as a playable character for the fun of it .. like one would use motoko or mutant muro's electricity or barabas's earthquaker is fun .. but it's eventually meant for AI usage as the Ultimate boss, stronger than Muro or Barabas or mukade for sure for example ... 
I completely agree on some of your feedback, the punch pauses, block lock, and the ppkk for example, I'll get to these as soon as i can and remove the left over konoko trams, but i'm not entirely convinced with some of the other stuff currently (I may get convinced once I play with it some more ''the mod that is'' .. my packages get a lot of updates to re-balance stuff, ex. Casey .. and then I'd be like: what was I thinking yikes tongue I'm currently saying that about the bgi agents, they really need an update :\)
and I really appreciate you testing it and giving me your feedback ! thank you smile i'll keep all what you said in mind.

Last edited by Samer (2/7/13 21:39)


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#10 3/7/13 1:06

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Version 1.1 Package updated to balance some moves
*Added pause between the punches and decreased damage(though it should be noted konoko's comb_p doesn't have any pause neither in vanilla nor AE)
*Decreased damage of heavy kick, increased end vulnerability and end pause
*Decreased hit length, hit points, stun and stagger for ppk and removed the High Flag.. (the ppkk is now somewhat dodge-able)
*decreased invulnerability and added end pause to escape moves (a disadvantage of these moves is they can't pickup items)
*decreased hit points and added pause to the low kick
*decreased damage of running punch throws
*the static kick throw was sometimes playing the wrong tgt from another konoko throw, fixed that -hopefully-.
*removed left over files.

Last edited by Samer (3/7/13 1:06)


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#11 3/7/13 13:26

Loser
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Retested the Sarai package. Personally, I am satisfied, issues were adressed. Thank you.

As she looks now, without the clearly unfairly advantages, I am looking forward to engage the Sarai character as some sort of a boss, be it in a custom-made level or as a future part of the SMP conversion.


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#12 3/7/13 15:12

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Glad you approve smile
and I hope you reply to my question on melee profiles as soon as you can ... Pretty please ^-^

Last edited by Samer (3/7/13 15:14)


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#13 3/7/13 23:50

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Testing AI Sarai vs AI Konoko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6QUaNtN … e=youtu.be

Last edited by Samer (3/7/13 23:50)


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#14 4/7/13 0:20

EdT
Moderator

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Looking good!  BTW, I sent you an email.

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#15 7/7/13 23:59

Knox
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Really like the green outfit. What happened to the red?


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#16 11/7/14 3:53

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

working on a new outfit for sarai ...
SNAG-0005-11-7-2014.jpg

Last edited by Samer (11/7/14 6:03)


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#17 11/7/14 7:38

Tracker
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Impressive! Looks great!
Keep up the good work  cool


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#18 11/7/14 9:20

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Nice, looks sharp.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#19 12/7/14 18:44

Samer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Updated to version 2.0 on 13/7/2014
Change log:
*Added a new outfit : jacket outfit
*Texture improvements for the previous outfits: armor, green and black.

screenshots in the first post.

Oni+2014-07-13+02-23-31-02_cr.jpg


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#20 12/7/14 19:49

EdT
Moderator

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

Looks great, I like the new jacket.

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#21 5/11/15 19:42

dosmer
Member

Re: NEW Character ***BGI Sarai*** Version 2.0 - Upated on 13/7/2014

I love this character! (apart from the hair style - it must be hard to fight when you can't see too well)
But playing it I just found out that if you play this or any other character that can jump higher than Konoko can normally do, and you perform a high jump within view of the white console in level 2, the console goes blank and the game is kind of screwed up.


If it ain't broken, don't fix it!

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