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#1 3/6/13 20:18

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Smart Barabas Mod.

Since this mod didn't have an official thread I thought I should make one since I've also made a minor update explained below.

Mod Description
As seen in EdT's Boss Battle mod, Barabas fights with smarter melee. Rather than spamming Earthquaker, he fights with faster moves, dodges more using his jet-pack, and utilizes his gun more efficiently.

v1.2 changes (by Iritscen):
Superseding what's written below, I have made the mod (well, the melee profile part) into an XML patch.  This means:
- The rest of the melee profile data that this mod used to install, which was the same as the Brutal AI mod, is not longer installed.  So from now on, you install Brutal AI if you want Brutal AI, then install this on top of that to get Loser's smarter Barabas AI.
- The smart Barabas AI is back to level 0, rather than localized in level3_Final and level8_Final.
- The melee upgrade is now applied to both appearances of Barabas, not just the second one.

v1.1 changes (by Samer):
the update now localizes the changed melee profile to level3_Final and level8_Final where you face Barabas, instead of level0_Final ... this way other characters won't become brutal too except if player installs Brutal AI and thus will be compatible with Brutal Konoko (which only affects Konoko)
smart barabs melee profile is based on brutal AI file so installing it was like installing brutal AI mod, if player doesn't want other characters to be affected, this was a problem. also brutal konoko profile only affects konoko supposedly but with smart barabs installed all other characters will be brutal too. since it will overwrite level0_Final profile. In addition any other mods which become too hard with brutal AI like my fightclub and smp-conversion would require player to uninstall smart barabas. The solution was to localize it to level3 and 8 instead of level0 hence barabas and other characters melee is only affected in those levels.
if player wants other characters in other levels to be brutal then he can install Brutal AI which writes to level0_Final affecting all levels. If he only wants brutal konoko and smart barabas then he can do that too now. this solution is second best thing i could think of other than making it an xml\java patch.

Video Preview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbA4JvcBZFQ

Last edited by Iritscen (28/2/16 14:40)


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#2 3/6/13 21:26

tens
Member
From: Dota 2
Registered: 27/4/13

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Not sure if this is a bug, but remember i had a problem where i couldn't Lariat anyone? If anyone suffers this problem, install the Brutal Konoko Melee ID, it fixes it! But i don't think it's a major issue since not many how complained about it. And Yeah I'll be playing this and i'll post a full fight! Just as a response. tongue


What does it matter? Even if the odds are against me, I'll do it, it doesn't matter.

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#3 3/6/13 21:54

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

you've already played it tongue nothing changed since then with it. if you like do the TCTF Barabas one not the level 3.


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#4 3/6/13 21:59

tens
Member
From: Dota 2
Registered: 27/4/13

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Kay smile, I'm also in the process of making the SMP-Fight club video, all 25 rounds big_smile.


What does it matter? Even if the odds are against me, I'll do it, it doesn't matter.

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#5 3/6/13 22:32

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Lesson learnt: never EVER release anything for the community again, since some people cannot read when author says the mod is EXPERIMENTAL and UNFINISHED.
Yes, EdT had an exception, since he is a respected fellow modder and he was pioneering level creating at that time. Experimental levels with experimental unfinished Silly Barabus are no deal.

Enlightening experience, this Silly lariat spam prone, for gun blind running Barabus case was.

Last edited by Loser (3/6/13 22:46)


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#6 3/6/13 23:00

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Pfft .. We get it loser you're not satisfied with your mod, no one is gonna be like : OMG look what loser did what a bad modder how could he ! Barabas is spammed by a lariat ! Holly crap !
He was always spammed by a lariat -_- your mod didn't cause that. In other words get over it please, we're enjoying the mod, if you're so concerned with tarnishing your famous name among oni players with this mod we can put creator unknown and enjoy it.
P.s: we're also respected modders and players smile

or I'll add : loser isn't held responsible for barabas being spammed by the lariat ! And this mod was experimental but published anyway to the description. Would that ease your mind ?

And this was already published by Iritscen, i updated it by localizing it to level3 and 8, but fyi if he hadn't published it, I would have, i was planning to since edt released the boss battle level to isolate it and publish it as a separate mod, he just beat me to it.

Last edited by Samer (3/6/13 23:22)


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#7 3/6/13 23:07

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Yes. I get it.


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#8 3/6/13 23:25

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

@tens .. As i told you before there is no chance at all that if that was a problem that burtal konoko melee will fix it. Melee profiles affect AI controlled characters not player.


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#9 3/6/13 23:48

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Lesson learnt: never EVER release anything for the community again, since some people cannot read when author says the mod is EXPERIMENTAL and UNFINISHED.

Loser: please don't have that attitude.  If all of us felt the same way, nothing will ever be released, there will be no progress at all.  This not only applies to Oni, but life in general.  Your mods are cutting edge, so of course there will be some bleeding, some bugs, some limitations due to Oni's engine.  But they are much better than the original and we enjoy them.  That's the main point, we enjoy and like your mods.

One day, if Oni's source is released then we can fix it the way it should be.  Then your mods can be exactly as you envision.  Until then please keep experimenting.

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#10 4/6/13 0:46

tens
Member
From: Dota 2
Registered: 27/4/13

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Hm.. well actually speaking the bug was cause of some other mod, probably. But Loser's mod fixes it. That is pretty much my sentence in literal form.. "If people ever get the "You cant lariat anything" Then just install his mod to fix it". I was pretty much saying that. I'm not sure how you take blame for that.. you deserve praise xD. @Samer, I'm know that it affects melee id's only, you told me before but installing that mod fixed it. And that's my side of the story. LOSER STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP!!!!!


What does it matter? Even if the odds are against me, I'll do it, it doesn't matter.

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#11 4/6/13 2:19

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

@tens
brutal konoko is vanilla profile with only konoko's section of the melee which I isolated. so it's actually as if you're not using his mod or only using 5% of it. I appreciate the intention tens and I agree, but the info is incorrect and saying to others if you get that problem that's the solution is not true, so I'm just correcting for the sake of accuracy, no matter what your "side of the story is" you must have missed something else.
there's a possibility that Brutal AI affects <ThrowDanger> making it harder to throw enemies, but that would affect all throws not lariat only and in that case uninstalling the mod or installing Brutal Konoko (which is basically vanilla) would "fix" it.

EdT wrote:

If all of us felt the same way, nothing will ever be released, there will be no progress at all.  This not only applies to Oni, but life in general.

exactly .. how many times have we updated our mods to fix bugs ? no one expects perfection.

Last edited by Samer (4/6/13 2:29)


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#12 4/6/13 9:53

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Not to pile on Loser, but look at OniSplit.  Sometimes a new version introduces new bugs ^_^  And it's been out for years and never hit 1.0.  But I can't imagine where we'd be if Neo kept it to himself until it was "perfect".  And we have a ton of respect for the work Neo's done, despite those occasional bugs, because it's still better than anything the rest of us were able to do.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#13 4/6/13 10:57

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

I hereby request the Smart Barabus mod to be removed.

Several not very pleasant guerilla actions are already planned if the request is not fulfilled and trust me, I don't care if you ban me after the damage is done.

This time things simply got over the edge too far regarding my taste.


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#14 4/6/13 11:45

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

"Several not very pleasant guerilla actions are already planned"   lol aww come on: if so many people find the mod useful, give it to them and let them handle the few voices that don't like it. (Not that the existence of hater would be something new..)

I understand your point that the author should have the rights over his creation. But besides the complexity of legal/moral rights which we/you might (not) have, the mod showed itself useful, it's above a pure experimental state. The benefits are clearly bigger than the drawbacks. I hope you will reconsider your decision. smile

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#15 4/6/13 11:58

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

I don't understand why this mod is such anathema to you.  It's a definite improvement over vanilla Barabas.  Why not help us improve the mod?  As it is, you're only taking away from the community, not contributing to it.  If the mod can't be improved, then it simply represents the current limitations of the Oni engine and it doesn't reflect negatively on your own abilities anyway.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#16 4/6/13 13:22

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Well, I've unpublished the mod while we talk about this, but I think this should be an ongoing conversation about the problem you have with the mod and whether it can be improved.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#17 4/6/13 13:27

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

For what it's worth, Smart Barabus is one of my favorite mods in the current AE. In any case, now that things are temporarily resolved, I think that all parties involved should drop the matter\discussion for a day or so. We don't need negative feelings over a mod, and discussing something that you are actively unhappy about isn't going to be conductive to getting things worked out.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#18 4/6/13 13:33

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

OK, let's try to talk this out one more time before mass-deleting, xxx-site spamming and maybe some leaking.

First, Iritscen, you are from the United States of America. Aren't U.S. citizens proud of their owned goods? Isn't it U.S. citizen's right to do whatever he wishes to do with his property, unless his actions put other citizens in life-threatening risk or annoy the public?

Next, we ALL here break the EULA when it comes to PC version of Oni. No exeptions I guess (MAC is a bit different story for some members, I know). So Paradox, stop mudding with some moral nonsense.

Under the common roof of breaking the EULA by reverse engineering the software, I have always acted by unwritten rule of authorship. If someone creates something, (s)he has the right to direct the use of said property (be it mod, tool, story, audiovisual content, etc.) among the community.

So far so good. Nobody complained, as nobody invaded anybody else's work without asking for permission.

Then how comes there is a sort of unspoken permission to violate these unwritten rules when the violation is against my person? Against Samer, only violating his ideas was a reason for his lengthy flame-wars with everyone. Result is simple - Samer does his own on his own. When he asks, others may contribute upon the request. However, unwritten rule says nobody is to tamper with HIS work without HIS consent.

So I ask again - how comes no-one else's work is violated under these unspoken guidlines, but mine? And when I voice protest, I am even mocked by the violator and moreover, forum moderator joins the side of the mocking violator.

This is NOT the first case of this kind of unwritten rules violation against my work, and the fuse finally ticked off. It's not about the Barabus mod in particular, it is about the principle.


EDIT: Gumby, your constant "NO, no ,no , naw, no, HELL NO" when I came with some idea back when you directed AE, followed by your appraisal when the same ideas were demonstrated by OTHER users also didn't help very much.

Last edited by Loser (4/6/13 13:35)


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#19 4/6/13 13:50

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

@Loser you had to mention me ? I was trying so hard to not reply.

Samer, only violating his ideas was a reason for his lengthy flame-wars with everyone. Result is simple - Samer does his own on his own. When he asks, others may contribute upon the request. However, unwritten rule says nobody is to tamper with HIS work without HIS consent.

1.no one tampered with your work your work was present in another mod we didn't modify it or tamper it.
2. referring to geyser's and ltemplar's rude criticism of my mods is nothing like this, no one criticized your work or offended it. no one called your work zooish like geyser did. we're saying it's great we want it ! please let us have it.
3. I publish my mods unlike you, and I'm ok with them being imperfect. there's always room for growth and if anyone one wants to improve or update mine then by all means please do. Edt never had a problem with me updating motoko, severed never had a problem with us using his textures, paradox, even geyser let us use the playground level, you're the only one who is making a big deal of things ... i remade casey how come you didn't jump on me then for tampering with your work .. you made a casey once.

this is how i see it : it's not tactful but in my view threats and continuous threats don't deserve tact.
first where exactly did you say that it's experimental and didn't want it published ?
1. It was released in EdT's boss battle mod we are free to isolate it from it since it was already released and you gave consent for that release.
2. get off your high horse, contrary to what you think not everyone thinks or awaits what Loser does .. honestly many didn't even know it was your mod to begin with and even more no one cares who the creator is they care what the mod does.
3. it's a melee profile modification, a particle addition to the ONCC, and ninja trams with jet pack particle attached .. it's not rocket science we can emulate it and publish it by a different creator.
4. you're victimizing yourself in the most childish way ever : they did all this to make fun of me they made a video of the mod to laugh at my mod this is what made me mock you because of your over-exaggerated arrogant reaction "never release anything to the community" that you also had on the movies thread ... and on youtube.
I find that offensive, i find it offensive that you think you're so above us that we are trying to ruin your good name. honestly you never crossed my mind when i made a video or when i updated it, it was a cool mod that made barabas harder, it's cool that he can fly and shoot, that's it, it doesn't have any dimensions or hidden meanings to target you. and the update was so it doesn't affect my mods.
5. I'm starting to think that you're doing this to get attention, same way you were the only one who refused that his videos be included on the wiki, that made you stand out not be less known.
6. either that or this reminds me of some girls that whine that they are not beautiful so those around them keep saying: no you are !
7. none of us is 100% satisfied with their mods we update them a dozen of times. casey could look better, some of hayate's moves are too slow, jester is overpowered .. etc we can all be critical on our mods.
8. when you make videos of mods that you work on and show them to us and then be like : no you can't have them and then delete them, that's extremely selfish. those mods would have been extremely useful for all of us in our modding.
9. you do realize that the mod has been downloaded several times before ? taking it off now really does nothing, and it can still be shared through other platforms by those who already have it.


if the mod is taken off permanently I'll be personally sure to tell everyone why it was taken off exactly, that includes my 230+ facebook group members, a note in all my mods and every barabas video i can find. the modder who made it threatened to damage the community because barabas is still spammed by the lariat like he always was with or without his mod. since you're going to the lengths of threatening mass deletion and leaking and bla bla.
so it's up to you if you prefer to be viewed as the selfish modder who threatened the community than to be viewed as a modder whose mod wasn't 100% perfect.

I personally had so much respect for you as a modder and as a person, i thought i could learn so much from you, but if someone can't accept imperfections in his work and have such an exaggerated reaction ad even threaten to damage the work of others, i doubt he can teach anyone anything.


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#20 4/6/13 14:02

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

First of all, Loser, I was the one who uploaded this mod.  I did so because years had passed since YOU released it, albeit with a note that it was unfinished.  So much time has passed since you released this content that I felt it was safe to assume you wouldn't care about such old work.  Now, if one of us was actively working on a mod and someone else started releasing their own "improved" version of our work, I think we would have a right to be upset.  But you've long since left Planet Oni, only to come back and tell us to delete something that we're enjoying, for no clear reason (mentioning Lariat Spam is a very unclear reason; how many times does Samer actually use Lariat in that video in the first post?; it looks like a pretty non-spammy fight to me).

Secondly, how was anyone mocking you?  I fail to see any inflammatory language besides Samer's last post made after your own.  I disagree with Samer that you're doing this to get attention.  People often misconstrue self-defeating personalities with attention-seeking, and it's rarely the case.  But I do think you're being oversensitive.  I think you've consistently shown a lack of esteem for your own work, and it's getting worse not better.  I hope you'll consider getting help for this problem.  We all have our issues that we could use some help with.

Thirdly, how many mods have you actually released and called "done"?  When someone never pronounces as "done" 90% of their work, it sets up a spectrum of work that ranges from "experimental and not good enough for release" to "slightly less so".  Most people's work is on a spectrum from "unfinished and unready for release" to "totally finished".  In other words, when you never release your own work or deem it as "good", you devalue your own opinion in other peoples' eyes.  Other people simply start to assume that your problems with your work are problems only in your own head, and that the work needs to be appraised by someone more objective.

You have one thing in common with geyser, which is that you both are protective of your work and by extension your reputation.  You want things to be just right before release.  The question is whether you have a "reputation" anymore in a community where you've made 59 posts in the last year and a half.  Many of the currently active members don't even know you.  This should be liberating to you, not depressing, because it means you don't have to worry about their opinion of your work.

Finally, I'm sorry that Gumby told you "no" a lot, but did he ever appoint himself king of modding?  You seemed to think he was.  You rarely ran anything by anyone else.  I gave you plenty of constructive responses when you did ask me about one of your ideas, didn't I?  And furthermore, who the hell are Gumby and I that you need our permission to do any work?  It's true that the AE was at the time a centralized project intended to authoritatively modify the game.  Well, I've since dismantled that aspect of the AE, and rightfully so.  I was never comfortable with having that much say over other peoples' work in the first place.  But you and I have this in common.  I allowed geyser to have too much say over my own work when I should have spent much less time arguing with him and cowing to his negativity, and spent that time creating, and getting better at my work, instead.  But that was my mistake, not geyser's.  Similarly, you can't blame Gumby for rejecting ideas that, by the very nature of Gumby's AE framework, were perfectly able to be released as third-party mods and enjoyed by the community just as well as if they were bundled in the AE.

That all being said, you do have the right to ask to have your work removed, but I'm afraid that does a lot more harm to your reputation than the mod itself ever did.  Childish threats to the community are an even worse idea.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#21 4/6/13 14:40

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Iritscen wrote:

First of all, Loser, I was the one who uploaded this mod.  I did so because years had passed since YOU released it, albeit with a note that it was unfinished.  So much time has passed since you released this content that I felt it was safe to assume you wouldn't care about such old work.

And if you had asked fist, I would say don't release that version but we could make a deal and release something of enough quality. Enough quality by author's standards of course.

Iritscen wrote:

Secondly, how was anyone mocking you?  I fail to see any inflammatory language besides Samer's last post made after your own.

He edited it out. It was a reason behind my bitter response "Yes. I get it".

Iritscen wrote:

But I do think you're being oversensitive.

I guess the issue is there is a grudge storing inside over some time then the fuse ticks off. Just like in this case.

Iritscen wrote:

Thirdly, how many mods have you actually released and called "done"?

Almost none, because almost none deserves it in my opinion. Yes, they are usually interesting concepts. But that's it. Concepts.

Iritscen wrote:

You have one thing in common with geyser, which is that you both are protective of your work and by extension your reputation.  You want things to be just right before release.

Zero care about reputation (see my behavior in this whole case). 100% care about publishing good quality mods, yes (which also means low number of releases, naturally). No need to release unfinished business.

Iritscen wrote:

Finally, I'm sorry that Gumby told you "no" a lot, but did he ever appoint himself king of modding?

Just a part of the grudge from the old AE days. BTW maybe you remember it, I told you back then. Anyway, that personal attack of mine was uncalled for, my apologies to Gumby.

Iritscen wrote:

That all being said, you do have the right to ask to have your work removed, but I'm afraid that does a lot more harm to your reputation than the mod itself ever did.  Childish threats to the community are an even worse idea.

Again, zero care about "reputation". It's about mods and their quality.
About the "right to have the work removed", I already did several attempts in this case and also in some other cases. All requests were ignored.
Next, I see no childish threats here. I see only logical escalation. When repeated reqests asked with mild voice are ignored, then it is time to amplify the voice. And voila, here we are finally discussing matters.

Too bad I had to resort to such strong rhetoric to finally get things moving. However, ears were deaf till now.


To wrap things up from my perspective: it is good to ask, it can prevent a lot of poisonous air from being created. Yes, in this case I am reponsible for creating the poisonous air. And the poison brewing machine ran on "request ignored" fuel which was provided by other person.

Factual talk - now that this matter is cleared and I hope the lesson was learnt (don't ignore author of the mod), I see a little reason to ask for withhelding the particular Smart Barabas mod after it was already up. Can I please ask you Iritscen to publish it again now, after we talked the matters through? My apologies for making you shuffle with Depot like this. Of course it will need an update, it is unfinished after all.


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#22 4/6/13 14:56

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Well, I appreciate what you're saying.  Although I don't fully understand your feelings, I respect that you do feel strongly about this.  I suppose I'm guilty of showing too little regard for your previous complaints about using your work without permission, so lesson learned.

Loser wrote:

Factual talk - now that this matter is cleared and I hope the lesson was learnt (don't ignore author of the mod), I see a little reason to ask for withhelding the particular Smart Barabas mod after it was already up. Can I please ask you Iritscen to publish it again now, after we talked the matters through? My apologies for making you shuffle with Depot like this. Of course it will need an update, it is unfinished after all.

Well, it's not hard to republish the mod, but wouldn't you rather work on it first, or tell us what you're unhappy with, before I restore it for public consumption?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#23 4/6/13 15:02

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Which part of my post did I edit that was offensive and now isn't.
the edit was to add this line "And this was already published by Iritscen, i updated it by localizing it to level3 and 8, but fyi if he hadn't published it, I would have, i was planning to since edt released the boss battle level to isolate it and publish it as a separate mod, he just beat me to it."
I really really hope moderators can see previous edits or if you remember what it was loser I really want to know .
and I didn't understand your comment "yes, i get it" it was if i asked you do you get it about something ...

but just a note it seems that you misunderstand what i say take a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASyyzfIc3D0 .. when i said the approach of using the gun was cheap it seemed to me in your response that you considered i said the mod cheap.
"I know about taking his gun and shooting it, but It's cheap tongue"
your comment: "A little comment about Barabus's potential, Oni combat system simply does not allow Barabus to be a formidale yet non-cheap opponent"
i could be wrong though.

however the post as is especially the "pfft" part was not nice of me I know, but the reason for that was the continuous accusation i felt you were throwing my way that I made that video to mock you or say your mod isn't good ! I'm not that sneaky, i think by now it's obvious i'm not coy about what i think.
the videos were made when tens made his let's play .. on facebook he said barabas was too hard. i haven't played vs barabas in quite a while, that urged me to make a video as a challenge to tens .. it took me more than 20 takes to not die ! it was never about showing your mod is bad it was to show that i'm a good player and that my characters are strong ^_^ :\ I played it with my custom characters because i like to whore them out tongue i just throw them anywhere till people get sick of it hoping someone will like them ^_^(i can be self deprecating too).
but then people said it's because these custom characters have long range attacks and are quick and i was like no ! I'll show them i can beat him with konoko and my slower characters as well, again to show i'm a good player and to showcase my characters again, it was never about the smart barabas mod for me.
But when on the movies thread you had that reaction and then again here i felt ok enough! and i used that one like "ok enough self deprecation ! I didn't make this thread or the update to target you" .. i didn't even mention you in the entire post.. i just updated it by simply putting them in level3 and 8 instead of 0 .. that's it and wanted to explain the update so when users get notified the pack is updated to have somewhere to read why.

anyway .. let's just move forward from here.

factual talk: Barabas is originally in level3 and 8 .. many moves in vanilla oni including the lariat originally are not unlocked by that level, so that's maybe partially why they've never considered making some sort of prevention against spamming those moves.

edit2: and I do understand why someone would be upset if their mod was showcased in a bad light, i was kinda upset when tens killed the grey fury with 2 hits with sbg or when the cutscene with casey was buggy ... that motivated me to fix it though.

and I'll always ask if i personally want to use something you've made.

Last edited by Samer (4/6/13 15:30)


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#24 4/6/13 15:56

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

Well, in my opinion it should be down till its ready. However, since Samer already distributed knowledge of this piece, I guess it is better to keep it online already and update it as time goes.

Also, as Samer already correctly pointed out, this Smart Barabus mod is now as simple as it can be. A few ripped TRAMs, some ripped particles, a bit of ONCC jump parameters messing, all plastered on a rushed experimental MELE profile.


Personally speaking, this mod should do following:

  • BSL part (or CHAR part) - removal of Wave Motion Cannon in the second ecounter. WMC is in my opinion hidden hindering factror for Barabus. He is slow enough already with his Elite TRAC, he does not need to be made even more clunky. Either this or change properties of primary firing mode for WMC, so it is not as painstakingly ineffective when used by the AI as it is now.
     

  • TRAM part I (attacks) - I want Barabus to break the agile/weak vs slow/strong Street Fighter scheme. That means:
    - not an attack but still important: in my opinion Barabus should generally move faster when running forward THAN ninja when backpedaling. This should prevent from silly looking scenarios when player can outrun the Barabus by miles by simply backpedaling with Konoko.
    - altering punch forward to be faster
    - removal of triple kick. He should have only a single kick or two kick combo at best.
    - addition of a few mixups combos, pkp, ppk etc. Various kicks should be incorporated into punch combos.
    - better kick low
    - special "punch special" attack. Currently I am thinking about short jetpack-powered ram forward.
    - Jumpable earthquaker attack. Personally I don't like attacks with definite advantage.
     

  • TRAM part II (throws)
    - Barabus deserves both punch and kick standing throw. Whether original or shamelessly ripped from other TRACs, well that is unclear so far.
    - Barabus also deserves to have ground grabs. Nothing fancy, just some short full mount + head2curb bashing action.
    - Barabus should have tackle attack
     

  • TRAM part III (evasion)
    - provide proper jetpack dodge animations (ninja dodges were just quick n'dirty placeholder)
    - maybe incorporate jetpack also into sidestep run dodge animations? I want Barabus to be unique, let's leave old-fashioned sidestep run rolling to thugs and strikers.
     

  • ONCC
    - faster turning speed (at least 1.5)
    - faster getup times (does not have to prevent from a quick ground strike, but don't let him slump on ground for too long)
    - set up projectile dodging so Barabus in general always runs toward his target (dodge vector never outweights run forward vector) but still can dodge diagonally left/right.
    - set up intelligent go-for-gun chance and running-pickup-chance
    - maybe alter threat timers so he rarely does lose awarenes of the player's whereabouts.
     

  • MELE
    First the BioResearchMelee - Barabus will have the WMC in this fight.
    - medicore or low dodge chance, high blocking skill
    - make him rely on single attacks
    - ocasionally let him do some mixup punch-kick combos
    - medicore use of specials
    - counter player's running throw spam with random side movements
    - occasional throw
    - very low chance to run throw
    - more specials
     
    Then TCTFmelee - Barabus will be without WMC.
    - high dodge chance, medicore block skill
    - employ also sidestep running dodges
    - more emphasis on mixup punch-kick combos
    - upweight chasing moves (be it slides or tackles) so player has hard time applying hit-and-run
    - counter player's running throw spam with random side movements and jetpack jumps
    - less specials
    - more throws
    - more running throws


I guess this does it.

Last edited by Loser (4/6/13 15:57)


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#25 4/6/13 16:09

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Smart Barabas Mod.

I can agree with just about all of that.  What about making Barabas feel weightier, tougher?  He's supposed to be the strongest guy in the game besides Mutant Muro, right?  Then why can a five-and-a-half foot Asian girl throw him just as far as she throws everyone else?  How does the Lariat even work on someone with no exposed neck?

I would also support altering the WMC to fire faster, rather than removing it from TCTF II.  Being able to calmly sidestep the WMC is silly.  It should strike fear in the player.  His long-range abilities could probably be greatly improved if his weapon and weapon usage were better.  For instance, he hardly ever uses his grenades.


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