Oni Central Forum

A forum for the Oni community

You are not logged in.

#1 5/4/13 6:03

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Ok so it has come to my attention a bug that affects most of my mods that utilize custom made particles these include:

*Hayate, Hanako (use a custom made orange contrail, chenille and hit impact)
*Grey Fury, Agents, BGI_NinjaBot, BGI_HeavyBot, (use a custom green contrail, and green hit impact, in addition for green chenille for grey fury)
*BGI_Hammer in addition to the green contrail used by the packs mentioned above it also uses some other particles for the shockwaves and electric attacks
*Kojiro uses a custom made red contrail and chenille
*these packs maybe affected but much less (not sure): Regenerating Tanker, Casey (use custom chenille) Shinatamabot (custom explosion)

what happens is an error about a particle shows in the console which says x particle contrail link points to a different class ... The game then either crashes instantly or when other characters do a contrailed move.
The only explanation I could find is that there's a certain particle limit that level0_Final can hold at a time ... Therefore this error is more likely to happen if you install many packs with new particles. So there's no specific incompatability it will depend on the number of particle modifiying mods.

I have recently updated some of my characters to minimize that .. Removed a glow particle and made 1 green contrail instead of 2 (i had an electric like one for bots and a normal one for the others) so please do update them when you're notified by the AEinstaller if you have them.

I have tested these packs together and they work with no problem (so you can install all of my characters together):

- Iron Demon (1)
 - BGI Agents (1.1)
 - BGI Hammer (1.0)
 - BGI_NinjaBot (1)
 - BGI_HeavyBot (1)
 - MasterChief Customized (2)
 - Muro's Wardrobe (1)
 - FemBlackOps (1)
 - Casual Tankers (1)
 - Shinatama Too (2)
 - ShinatamaBot 2.0 (2.0)
 - Golden TCTF (2)
 - Hasegawas (2)
 - Casey (4)
 - Grey Fury 2.0 (2)
 - Regenerating Tanker (1)
 - Kojiro 2.1 (2.1)
 - Hayate 2.0 (2.0)
 - Hanako (1)
 - Jester 2.1 (2.1)
 - Character Additives (7)
 - Character Retexture (2.1)
 - Motoko (2.0)
 - Konoko HD Armor (1.1)
 - Griffin HD (1)

However the error can happen if the packs mentioned in the first lines of my post are installed with one, or more of the following packages:
Sentry Droid
Guard Dogs
Iron Demon
New Weapons Collection
Devastator Weapon
Three d shells
Blood
Old China
Elite Tanker
Complete glass mod

if the error happens uninstall one or more of these packages and it should then work .. If for example you installed all my characters and when you added yet another pack you got the error then you've reached the particle limit and need to unistall some of them .. Doesn't matter which.
If for example you got the error after installing new weapons collection and you do want it then you'll have to uninstall another pack or packs in exchange ex hayate and hanako  or guard dogs or or ...

Please report if you find any other packs that cause issues ..
And to modders I hope you help figure out that limit and a way around it, because particle modifications have a huge potential and if we can't add new ones we'll be limiting our modding a lot.

I'll be adding a warning and a link to this thread to the description of affected mods.

Last edited by Samer (19/5/13 4:42)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#2 5/4/13 7:17

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

I'll check with Neo and see if he can tell us something about the particle limits and how to increase them.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#3 5/4/13 12:56

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

thanks smile hopefully it's an easy fix.


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#4 6/4/13 9:26

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

#$$@ ! another possible manifestation of the problem besides the error and the crash is the some of particle attacks of the hammer won't have an effect .. they'll look like they're ok and no error in console and no crash .. however upon contact with a character nothing happens .. example the particles of the low punch are supposed to knock character down upon contact .. they will appear but nothing will happen when they do hit the character .. solution is same as before uninstall some other particle mods.

Last edited by Samer (6/4/13 9:28)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#5 6/4/13 10:26

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Just so I'm totally clear, have you confirmed that this is also a problem in the older AE with an older OniSplit?

Edit: New question from talking with Neo, with Dev Mode on, are you seeing the message "exceeded maximum number of contrail emitting classes" a lot when a problematic number of characters are installed?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#6 6/4/13 10:48

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Hmmm... I played Old China Final battle with all your characters installed no crash.  Boss Battle with the Iron Demon and Devastator weapon, no crash.

Offline

#7 6/4/13 14:11

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Iritscen wrote:

Just so I'm totally clear, have you confirmed that this is also a problem in the older AE with an older OniSplit?

i tried replacing the current onisplit with an older one 0.9.58 .. And the older bink32.dll  and reinstall  ... same issue arose, i am not able to test with older edition anymore because i removed it, i am not sure it happened or not in the old edition. Most probably yes, but i didn't pinpoint what the cause was back then, and simply uninstalled whatever additional particle-including mod i installed last, thinking it's a specific incompatibility.

Edit: New question from talking with Neo, with Dev Mode on, are you seeing the message "exceeded maximum number of contrail emitting classes" a lot when a problematic number of characters are installed?

no that's not the error I'm getting I'm getting this : x particle contrail link points to a different class! .. X is different each time But it's usually one of the contrail ones or one of hammer's electric attacks example: h2h-grentrail-p01 the error is generated multiple times filling many lines in the console .. Actually Edt you got that same error with hayate and hanako with old china before if you remember which you emailed me about and i asked about it here http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … 667#p42667 but a reinstall fixed it. (it was older edition)  .. However once i uninstall one of the other particle packs everything works (doesn't matter which one, that's why I'm certain it's not an incompatibility .. Some don't share any files together and each pack alone works fully only certain combos  of packages cause it)

@EdT : can you try this for me ? Try hayate, hanako and grey fury and agents and the 2 bgi bots and hammer and kojiro (with character additives) or all my characters but have to include these ones  ... Alone these might work then add to them one or more of sentry droid, guarddogs iron demon, new weapons collection, devastator weapon,  the crash doesn't happen instantly and it's different each time which character or weapon causes it , so if you installed all my characters and one of the other ones you got no crash then you haven't reached the limit add another one ... It usually happens when a contrailed move is done so test the heavypunch of agents, hayate/hanako, kojiro, greyfury and  hammer (also look at the effect of the hammer's moves the electric green part should knock enemies down ex low punch or second half of the heavy kick, recently i've noticed that it doesn't when more particle packs are installed but no error generated) also test heavypunch of elites and comguys  .. And shoot with the modified weapons if installed ... Most probably you'll either get an instant crash .. Or the error about the particle pointing to a different class and then a crash on another contrailed move or no error in console but contrails for all characters (vanilla ones included) just disappear then a crash on another random character or weapon ... Repeat the test after you randomly uninstall one or 2 of the new particle packages and it will work.

Last edited by Samer (6/4/13 16:35)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#8 6/4/13 20:46

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Samer: As you can see from the screenshot, I installed all of your character mods and some of the problem mods, but still I cannot crash Oni.

To try to duplicate your setup, do you have a custom BINACHAR with all your characters in them? If so, can I have it.  Where are you testing them?  Are you spawning them at the same time?  Do you have a BSL script for that?

installed_mods.jpg

Offline

#9 6/4/13 22:22

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

do you have a custom BINACHAR with all your characters in them? If so, can I have it.

mm junkyard ozg update and ozg arena has one but it's irrelevant i think ..
I'm testing them in any level usually atmospheric center exterior, dream lab, arena or junkyard

Are you spawning them at the same time?

no .. shapeshifting to them ... or even them as AI

this is my current installation

Upgraded ONCCs ()
 - Brutal Konoko (1.1)
 - SamMegaPack - Conversion (1.0)
 - BGI Agents  (1.1)
 - BGI Hammer (1.0)
 - BGI NinjaBot (1)
 - BGI Heavy Bot (1)
 - MasterChief Customized (2)
 - Muro's Wardrobe (1)
 - FemBlackOps (1)
 - Casual Tankers (1)
 - Shinatama Too (2)
 - ShinatamaBot 2.0 (2.0)
 - Golden TCTF (2)
 - Hasegawas (2)
 - Casey (4)
 - Grey Fury 2.0 (2)
 - Regenerating Tanker (1)
 - Kojiro 2.1 (2.1)
 - Hayate 2.0 (2.0)
 - Hanako (1)
 - Jester 2.1 (2.1)
 - Character Additives (7)
 - Character Retexture (2.1)
 - HD Training Room Textures (1.0)
 - Konoko HD Armor (1.1)
 - Griffin HD (1)
 - HD Screens (1)
 - Oni Zen Garden Arena (2.1)
 - Junkyard (1)
 - Junkyard - Zen Garden Update (2.1)

after I add New Weapons : no error .. I then add Guard Dogs ... this happens : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO7IHBVP … e=youtu.be

in the video when hammer does his super punch the console says "w14_grn_p02 contrail link points to a different class!" notice how after that the contrails of all characters disappear ... then at the end of the video when hanako starts to try to do her super punch the game crashes with damn! blam oni crashed (same applies to hayate or kojiro) .. fraps stopped recording when it crashed so i couldn't show the dialogue box ... (p.s also if i skip hammer and shapeshift directly to hanako\hayate and do a contrailed move,  it crashes)
sometimes hammer and hayate work but crashes on agents\grey fury .. sometimes it crashes when a weapon is shot .. etc .. and it's not always the w14_grn_p02 sometimes it's h2h_grentrail_p01 or h2h_haytrail_p01 or a weapon particle etc ..
like when you sent me this when you're making old china
Hanako_particle_error.jpg

anyway if then I uninstall New weapons and keep guard dogs all goes back to normal so it wasn't the guard dogs in particular that caused the problem .. if i then readd New weapons : error .. if i then remove hammer but install guard dogs and weapons: no error .. or keep hammer+weapons+guard dogs but remove hayate+hanako or kojiro : no error .. which leads us to the conclusion it's not a specific incompatibility but a limit.

maybe Macs are not affected .. also a faint possibility did you install all of them together, or added gradually maybe somehow that has an effect because if you remember for the hanako problem you had, a simple reinstall fixed it .. same for me i did get those particle errors before with the old AE but a reinstall would fix them (not anymore though :\)

also guys with PC your help with testing could be very useful .. Lithium can you give it a try please ?

Last edited by Samer (6/4/13 22:36)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#10 7/4/13 6:59

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Fwiw, I also installed most of those mods and played the final battle in Old China and didn't see one error on the console.  There's a small possibility that Bungie fixed this between the Windows and Mac builds.  I may simply have not installed enough mods, but I did have the Hammer, New Weapons, Guard Dogs, Hayate, Hanako and Kojiro installed along with a number of others that you had mentioned.

Neo did mention that when the particle limit is reached (which is hard to do), the oldest particles are killed off.  However, he says there's supposed to be a check in the code that prevents a class mismatch from occurring under those circumstances.  Since he and I were not able to reproduce your problem, however, we couldn't get any farther.  Personally, I'm puzzled because it normally takes something like turning on glassworld and shooting up the level to reach the particle limit, and Oni will inform you on the console that you've reached said limit.  Whereas you don't seem to be seeing such a message.  So I'm not convinced that this is the direct result of running out of memory.

But just to be clear, Neo thought that this involved a memory issue, not a disk issue.  In other words, it's not a limit on how many particles can be stored in level 0, but a problem that happens in memory once Oni loads the data and runs.  He also informed me that contrails are particularly particle-heavy because they produce a new particle for each segment of the contrail curve (perhaps you already knew that, but it was news to me).

Edit: Hmm, should I have posted this in your particle thread?  I'll move it if you want.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#11 7/4/13 9:41

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

But just to be clear, Neo thought that this involved a memory issue, not a disk issue.  In other words, it's not a limit on how many particles can be stored in level 0, but a problem that happens in memory once Oni loads the data and runs.

interesting, btw maybe irrelevant but I did try and see if non particle packs that i feel might be heavy on memory in general such as character retexture, and konko HD, level textures have an effect ... but they didn't only ones with particles.

He also informed me that contrails are particularly particle-heavy because they produce a new particle for each segment of the contrail curve (perhaps you already knew that, but it was news to me).

wasn't sure about it but makes sense, since Casey and Regenraing tanker, and shinibot don't seem to have a huge effect though they have a custom chenille and custom explosion for shini (if i get the error and uninstall them the error remains)

and Oni will inform you on the console that you've reached said limit.  Whereas you don't seem to be seeing such a message.

could it be that i'm receiving it at same time of the crash thus i'm not seeing it ? isn't there supposed to be a log somewhere when the game crashes on what caused it exactly ?
i only found a debugger text but i'm guessing it's irrelevant but here it is anyway, since I noticed it's all about particles

### warning: particle class 'w24_psr_e01' emitter 5 can't find emitted particle 'w24_psr_p08'

### warning: particle class 'pstream_shooter' emitter 2 can't find emitted particle 'w_pstream_shot2'

### warning: particle class 'w3_phr_e01' emitter 5 can't find emitted particle 'w3_phr_p08'

### warning: particle class 'flame2_e' emitter 2 can't find emitted particle 'test_smoke'

### warning: particle class 'env_cloud02_p02' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle ''

### warning: particle class 'env_cloud01_p01' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle ''

### warning: particle class 'muroglow_e01' emitter 2 can't find emitted particle 'muroglow_p02'

### warning: particle class 'phase_shot' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle ''

### warning: particle class 'm_block' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle 'm_p01'

### warning: particle class 'env_cloud02_p01' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle ''

### warning: particle class 'env_cloud01_p01b' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle ''

### warning: particle class 'env_cloud01_p01a' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle ''

Since he and I were not able to reproduce your problem, however, we couldn't get any farther.

ok thanks for the help guys smile but it seems no one else is able to replicate it ... http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … 642#p45642 (it seems paradox did get it at first but not after i removed a glow particle and removed one contrail)  so I know you can't do much else, I'm actually kinda glad it's not affecting others ^_^ I don't want my mods to be causing problems for players tongue
so for me I'll try to make it easier to just temporarily disable all contrails when i install a lot of particle mods. we'll look into it further if someone else reports it ^_^

@Iritscen thanks but no please keep it here as it's related to the problem directly ^_^ actually i should have had all related posts here and not on the particle modification one :$


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#12 7/4/13 10:45

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Samer wrote:

But just to be clear, Neo thought that this involved a memory issue, not a disk issue.  In other words, it's not a limit on how many particles can be stored in level 0, but a problem that happens in memory once Oni loads the data and runs.

interesting, btw maybe irrelevant but I did try and see if non particle packs that i feel might be heavy on memory in general such as character retexture, and konko HD, level textures have an effect ... but they didn't only ones with particles.

Just to clarify, I should have said "runtime", not "memory".  I was trying to differentiate problems with file storage limits from problems that happen in memory when Oni runs.  So probably HD textures wouldn't affect this, for instance.

i only found a debugger text but i'm guessing it's irrelevant but here it is anyway

Yep, it's irrelevant smile  Those are actually vanilla Oni errors, apparently they don't do any harm.

ok thanks for the help guys smile but it seems no one else is able to replicate it ...

It could be that we would have seen it before you reduced your particle usage, so yes, perhaps you've more or less fixed the issue for other players and we don't need to worry about it anymore.

actually i should have had all related posts here and not on the particle modification one :$

Want me to move those posts over here then?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#13 7/4/13 10:51

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Want me to move those posts over here then?

yes please :$ provided that it doesn't change the first post here.

Last edited by Samer (7/4/13 10:52)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#14 7/4/13 12:55

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

I'm afraid this isn't the end of it
http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … 641#p45641
and on facebook group :
Roberto ...: ok so now my issue is when i use the character changer cheat after awhile it will say blam! oni crashed. is there anyway to fix this?

after follow up with Roberto the issue also is affected by these mods:
Particle Trials
Multi Use Explosives
Door Lock bombing
Muro Kamehameha
Head Shot mod
... he had to uninstall these and then the bgi (green contrail) for it to work.

Last edited by Samer (7/4/13 14:16)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#15 7/4/13 14:17

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Could this be his problem? http://bugs.oni2.net/ticket/16

Also, if I move over the problem posts from the particle thread, some will indeed go before your first post in this thread.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#16 7/4/13 14:30

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

ouh yikes I got that once ! didn't know why at the time ... 
but it worked for him after he uninstalled the other mods he didn't uninstall dashing AI .. I'll recheck though, because i did find it weird that it crashed for him while cycling characters not doing a con-trailed move ^_^ and going to join the bugs.oni2.net ... looks fun tongue
ouh and then just leave the posts where they are please ^^ thanks Iritscen.


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#17 7/4/13 15:23

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

The one crash (if there aren't more) is caused by my Head Shot Mod Demo. In AE7 there's no ninjabot2 anymore, so there are some resources missing. I will remove the bot tomorrow.

Offline

#18 7/4/13 15:33

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

@Iritscen yes it was dashing AI for him .. paradox ok please do ^_^

EDIT: paradox I took the liberty to fix it for you .. in case someone downloads it meanwhile

Last edited by Samer (7/4/13 15:56)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#19 8/4/13 5:57

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

'k thanks.

Offline

#20 13/4/13 16:29

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Okay, so here's a partial resolution, hot off the press from a chat with Neo, but first I'd just like to make a note for the future -- when you find a problem with a mod or mods, please don't change everything before other people get a chance to run tests with the same mods wink  It made it a lot harder to find the bug, even though it turned out to be something simple.

It turns out that Oni has a maximum particle class limit of 1024, however it doesn't know that it has this limit.  Oni thinks its limit is 2048 and will only issue a warning when you exceed that number; however, the index number it uses to track which class a particle is in only goes up to 1023.  D'oh.  The error about particles pointing to a different class comes about when a particle tries to look up, say, class 1024, which wraps around to class 0.

Now you might be thinking, "But wait, we didn't add that many classes to Oni, did we?"  What you have to remember is that vanilla Oni has, by my count, 921 PAR3 files, although I'm not sure that there's a 1:1 ratio in number of files:classes.  But if it does, this means that you get into danger after adding only about 100 PAR3 files to the game, and my AE packages folder has over 260 at the moment.

So the obvious solution is "Don't use so many particles", but I'm sure we're all wondering if there isn't a smarter solution that can avoid headaches for modders and players.  Perhaps the AEI can warn players when they pick mods with too many PAR3 files; that's probably pretty easy but it only helps players, and only kind of.  It's also possible that the Daodan DLL can raise the limit to 2048.  Neo has given me a suggestion about this, but it seems a bit too technical to get into here, so I'll be talking with Alloc about it since he's basically maintaining the DLL now.

But hopefully this was enlightening enough for starters, because we spent a few hours on it smile


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

Offline

#21 13/4/13 16:51

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Warning about a bug with mods using custom particles

Ouh goody smile thanks for figuring it out, yes i hope we increase the limit then, instead of preventing using many particles because that would be very limitnig modding wise.

P.s : I updated my packages to minimize the issue because i didn't want them to crash for people, but the issue was still there and still could be tested, i don't know why it was easier for me to get the error though, when Edt and paradox didn't.

Last edited by Samer (13/4/13 16:55)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB