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#1 29/10/12 9:51

s10k
Member

Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

I don't think there are already a topic for next AE ideas and discussion so I created this one.

The development of next AE is currently in a unknown state as I'm aware but that doesn't mean we can't gather somewhere ideas and discuss what should be included, what not, what should be removed, what should be updated, plus AE installer improvements.

This topic should be for all that, so the developers can only pick up here the ideas/suggestions without the need to do that all stuff for themselves.

I can start with the follow suggestion which I already posted in the other old anniversary release topic:

1)

Right now the installer doesn't check for dependencies.

Would be nice if in the future we could at least give a warning when a mod requires another that isn't available (and of course allow write dependencies for the new mods).

This would help very much in some mods that require others. For example the china mod requires about other 3 packages, and it will crash if they aren't present. This would at least warn the user of that.

2)
Another thing that would be awesome but can be a little tough to program would be that the installer would show the latest mods from the depot with a short description, plus maybe the most downloaded mods. In addition install and download them directly from it would be even more interesting.

3)
I think the new version should contain the latest oni split version plus maybe the latest vago/ae tools too.

4)
We should see which mods are more used right now that aren't included with the edition. For example I see that perceptible blood is kinda popular between the players, even if the edition already comes with another soft blood version. Dunno if we should replace that one with the perceptible blood (which is more anime style in my opinion).

5)
There are a lot of outdated mods in the last Edition things like brutal AI, New Characters and Andrashi Melee System I think, which should be updated to the last version.

I will probably create a list here at the first message with the mods that should be included, removed and updated (by positive feedback in this topic of the users).

Last edited by s10k (29/10/12 9:56)

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#2 29/10/12 10:45

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Things that should be removed in my opinion are :
new characters (not because i didn't make them and just want to promote mine. Honestly .. But let's face it they are outdated texture wise, model wise and everything ... and it was said that they're placeholders especially the executives, now we have the better looking agents and soon the suit wearing executives)

i'll make the halo clothed syndicate into another package called master chief clothed syndicate or something as an extra skin for the syndicate ..instead of bgi .. So it will still be available ..  right now there are syndicate with halo chief themed outfits (like jubei and akane) and then master chief himself with various tracs .. Godzilla and tctf swat and etc (they're missing particles btw) that's a bit overkill, how many halo chiefs do we need. Include 1 white, 1 black at the most with a unique trac (like i made it when i first started modding) or with elite's trac. And the syndicate themed ones as a separate outfits package.

The green ninjabot .. Was cool at the time but for an AE we need more than simple recoloring and trac switch to call it ''the AE new characters''

same for shinatama too as geyser said it was proof of concept. The updated version i made could be included .. Though i think shinatamabot is more developed concept, model and moves wise ... ( but i know there's objection there)

Things that also should be removed as an AE package ..
The blur dash .. It makes the buffer overflow issue more frequent and i think very few users if any, use it.

Things to be included :
severed package version 2
my character retexture .
Hd konoko (latest version that fixes buffer overflow), griffin, hd muro with severed head (it was shown to be more popular than VR head, it's already avialable in my muro's wardrobe package)

If ''new characters'' package is to be included at least it should contain :
casey (selected outfits), kojiro, grey fury , blackops konoko  and carens, muro suit outfit and casual tankers. (motoko is already included) ..These are directly related to oni's original concept and ideas discussed long before i made\updated them.

Things that really need fixing : the brutal ai package version 1 is buggy doesn't allow some characters to use supers .. So 1.1 should be included instead .. Or remove them all together, the upgraded onccs and semivulnerable supers make it difficult enough already.

Female cops have amazingly low health should increase it a bit.

Arena level obsolete with ota and onizen garden scripts should be included (maybe made into 2 different save points) it's a great example of a new AE level and it's small sized and simple .. What more can we ask for than a new level that you can use to spawn any enemies and set fights that way you want them .. It's an endless fun level that's really underrated .. Oni zen garden can do everything ota can do

Onisplit latest version and scripts vago gui or/and demos's gui and lukas creator's oni levels unlock should be included.

Improved weapons should be fixed the plasma rifle knocks you down very annoying and overpwered.

Knockdown revamp is buggy .. You hit urself with ur own throws sometimes, and turning it off doesn't fix it .. I think it's included in the globalize folder. Maybe combine it with the jewels fix.

Stunned throws fix i made should be included.

Blood package don't know, but the one that's used more as script said, and if possible make it that robots don't bleed. ( i can try to do that if u tell me how it's done)

Include the new character classes oncvs and onvl.

New Ae weapons should get a model update.

AE installer should list mods ordered by numbers rather than by alphabetical order. Arranging by package numbers makes related packages ordered after each other and makes it easier to identify which will overwrite which.
Showing dependencies could be a nice addition ..


At the end i hope it will be a discussion and the next AE would be a community mod collection of the best mods by the active modders .. and mods are evaluated fairly, based on the mod's content, quality and amount of work put into it ..  and not on the modder's reputation or personal preferance .. Those who decide what's included in the AE should take the time to test / play all available mods so they can be chosen fairly.


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#3 29/10/12 11:46

Gumby
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Hooboy. Okay. I knew this was coming eventually. I'll respond to what I can for now.

Script_10k wrote:

I don't think there are already a topic for next AE ideas and discussion so I created this one.

The development of next AE is currently in a unknown state as I'm aware but that doesn't mean we can't gather somewhere ideas and discuss what should be included, what not, what should be removed, what should be updated, plus AE installer improvements.

This topic should be for all that, so the developers can only pick up here the ideas/suggestions without the need to do that all stuff for themselves.

I can start with the follow suggestion which I already posted in the other old anniversary release topic:

1)
Right now the installer doesn't check for dependencies.

Would be nice if in the future we could at least give a warning when a mod requires another that isn't available (and of course allow write dependencies for the new mods).

This would help very much in some mods that require others. For example the china mod requires about other 3 packages, and it will crash if they aren't present. This would at least warn the user of that.

Dependency checking was always something I would like to have, but never got around to.

2)
Another thing that would be awesome but can be a little tough to program would be that the installer would show the latest mods from the depot with a short description, plus maybe the most downloaded mods. In addition install and download them directly from it would be even more interesting.

Possibly. Online updating can be tricky, but I have a possible idea for the UI portion, at least.

3)
I think the new version should contain the latest oni split version plus maybe the latest vago/ae tools too.

Agree, for Onisplit. Probably for vago and tools, too.

4)
We should see which mods are more used right now that aren't included with the edition. For example I see that perceptible blood is kinda popular between the players, even if the edition already comes with another soft blood version. Dunno if we should replace that one with the perceptible blood (which is more anime style in my opinion).

No reason to not have both, especially if we have dependancy checking.

5)
There are a lot of outdated mods in the last Edition things like brutal AI, New Characters and Andrashi Melee System I think, which should be updated to the last version.

I will probably create a list here at the first message with the mods that should be included, removed and updated (by positive feedback in this topic of the users).

I agree some things need updating.

Samer wrote:

Things that should be removed in my opinion are :
new characters (not because i didn't make them and just want to promote mine. Honestly .. But let's face it they are outdated texture wise, model wise and everything ... and it was said that they're placeholders especially the executives, now we have the better looking agents and soon the suit wearing executives)

I'm fine with this.

i'll make the halo clothed syndicate into another package called master chief clothed syndicate or something as an extra skin for the syndicate ..instead of bgi .. So it will still be available ..  right now there are syndicate with halo chief themed outfits (like jubei and akane) and then master chief himself with various tracs .. Godzilla and tctf swat and etc (they're missing particles btw) that's a bit overkill, how many halo chiefs do we need. Include 1 white, 1 black at the most with a unique trac (like i made it when i first started modding) or with elite's trac. And the syndicate themed ones as a separate outfits package.

This needs further discussion, but I agree in principle.

The green ninjabot .. Was cool at the time but for an AE we need more than simple recoloring and trac switch to call it ''the AE new characters''

same for shinatama too as geyser said it was proof of concept. The updated version i made could be included .. Though i think shinatamabot is more developed concept, model and moves wise ... ( but i know there's objection there)

Things that also should be removed as an AE package ..
The blur dash .. It makes the buffer overflow issue more frequent and i think very few users if any, use it.

Blur dash is in there for beginner players. It's very handy, and you will get buffer overflow regardless without it.

Things to be included :
severed package version 2
my character retexture .
Hd konoko (latest version that fixes buffer overflow), griffin, hd muro with severed head (it was shown to be more popular than VR head, it's already avialable in my muro's wardrobe package)

Tentatively agree, would have to look over the mods in question again.

If ''new characters'' package is to be included at least it should contain :
casey (selected outfits), kojiro, grey fury , blackops konoko  and carens, muro suit outfit and casual tankers. (motoko is already included) ..These are directly related to oni's original concept and ideas discussed long before i made\updated them.

Tentatively agree.

Things that really need fixing : the brutal ai package version 1 is buggy doesn't allow some characters to use supers .. So 1.1 should be included instead .. Or remove them all together, the upgraded onccs and semivulnerable supers make it difficult enough already.

Sure.

Female cops have amazingly low health should increase it a bit.

Sure.

Arena level obsolete with ota and onizen garden scripts should be included (maybe made into 2 different save points) it's a great example of a new AE level and it's small sized and simple .. What more can we ask for than a new level that you can use to spawn any enemies and set fights that way you want them .. It's an endless fun level that's really underrated .. Oni zen garden can do everything ota can do

Not happening. Needs to be moved to a level after 19.

Onisplit latest version and scripts vago gui or/and demos's gui and lukas creator's oni levels unlock should be included.

Improved weapons should be fixed the plasma rifle knocks you down very annoying and overpwered.

I'd have to double check what I did to plasma rifle. Should only knock you down if you're jumping.

Knockdown revamp is buggy .. You hit urself with ur own throws sometimes, and turning it off doesn't fix it .. I think it's included in the globalize folder. Maybe combine it with the jewels fix.

Sounds like a different issue. Figure out exact reproduction steps and then we can work on fixing it. Only things in globalize are bugfixes.

Stunned throws fix i made should be included.

Don't know what it is, but it sounds like something I'd put in.

Blood package don't know, but the one that's used more as script said, and if possible make it that robots don't bleed. ( i can try to do that if u tell me how it's done)

Might be possible.

Include the new character classes oncvs and onvl.

Very hesitant to do this, needs further discussion.

New Ae weapons should get a model update.

AE installer should list mods ordered by numbers rather than by alphabetical order. Arranging by package numbers makes related packages ordered after each other and makes it easier to identify which will overwrite which.
Showing dependencies could be a nice addition ..

Have a button to order by alphabet or by dependency.

At the end i hope it will be a discussion and the next AE would be a community mod collection of the best mods by the active modders .. and mods are evaluated fairly, based on the mod's content, quality and amount of work put into it ..  and not on the modder's reputation or personal preferance .. Those who decide what's included in the AE should take the time to test / play all available mods so they can be chosen fairly.

I agree that is what AE should be, but mods have never been evaluated on reputation\preference. There was discussion between Iritscen and I about how to decide what to include, but what ended up happening as me deciding that I would take it upon myself to decide what goes in, and if anyone had any problem with that, they could blame me, and not Iritscen\geyser\anyone else. It was a mixture of selfishness (because I didn't trust anyone else to put in the right mods) and selflessness (so that the team as a whole couldn't get blamed, only me) that lead to the decision. As I was handling the packaging for release and whatnot, and understood best how the system worked, it wasn't too much of a stretch for me to handle the mod inclusions. I don't remember if it was an actual agreement, or me just taking control because I had veto power anyhow. Sorry. :) Whether or not it was a good decision was never seen. The mod community wasn't in full swing while I was still active and there weren't many mods that were up to the quality standards I wanted. Why not hand the reins over to someone else with more time to handle releases? I suppose that boils down to me not trusting anyone else to do it. That's selfish and egotistical of me, I know. It is part of the reason AE releases have stalled, the other being that we don't have any other C++ coders to take over AEInstaller.

More on this in a few hours, I have to go to work, will post more there.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#4 29/10/12 12:38

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

I'm actually more in favor of stripping almost all third-party mods from the AE and leaving only the "tweaks" like dash blur and knockdown revamp (because those aren't "sexy mods" that people will seek out and download, and because they're tiny).

If we grant the Installer the ability to display the mods on the Depot by category, there's no reason we can't just present that menu in the Installer and let users download what they want on demand.  After all, several of the mods have been revised several times each, so why release something that will soon be out of date?  The same goes for OniSplit -- a version should obviously be included (it has to be, for installation to work), but there should also be an auto-update function that lets the user download a new version when available.

This would ultimately have the effect of putting the selection of mods out of our hands and make it unnecessary to continually release new Editions (except for the occasional maintenance update of the Installer).  But I would still want to recommend a few mods in the read-me or in the Installer, just to give players a good first impression of the community's modding efforts; they would just be links, though, to be downloaded at the player's choice.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#5 29/10/12 12:44

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Gumby wrote:

Blur dash is in there for beginner players. It's very handy, and you will get buffer overflow regardless without it.

true will get it regardless. however any motion blurred moves cause the buffer overflow "more" meaning a model may not be causing buffer overflow not even with forcefield or phasecloak however if it does a motion blurred move example REDCOMkick_heavy or in that case the running of the blur dash it will cause buffer overflow.. (we tried several other things to remove the buffer oveflow) besides graphical eye candy how is it handy ? you mean it will allow them to know they're dashing instead of running ? if that's what you mean .. mm yeah i haven't thought of that .. but then again isn't AE for advanced players who got sick of vanilla tongue

Not happening. Needs to be moved to a level after 19.

It's already released in that slot .. in beta or pre beta oni wasn't that slot for Arena from starters ? it's called obsolete only seems fitting to have that there. anyway i mean the level as a level no matter what number it is ... it's a tiny package 1.3 Mb so can be changed easily.

Knockdown revamp is buggy .. You hit urself with ur own throws sometimes, and turning it off doesn't fix it .. I think it's included in the globalize folder. Maybe combine it with the jewels fix. Sounds like a different issue. Figure out exact reproduction steps and then we can work on fixing it. Only things in globalize are bug fixes.
mm

Installed it as only package .. others have also reported it ... others have also mentioned it disables fistsoflegends cheat .. try to make a throw with the swat .. where he throws the target (running puch throw .. most often he throws the enemy and runs and gets hit by the enemy he threw) .. for me disabling doesn't fix it .. enabling it does :\ (if i uninstall all packages the bug appears if i install knockdown revamp it disappears) in the AE prior to this one i didn't have this issue. 
there's a knockdown folder in the globalize folder.

Don't know what it is, but it sounds like something I'd put in.

only konoko's throws work on VDG stunned enemies .. i made a package that allows all throws by all other characters to work on vdg stunned enemies .. useful for those who play as other characters.

Include the new character classes oncvs and onvl.
Very hesitant to do this, needs further discussion.

currently AE comes with these classes : ONC ninjabot2 ONV bgi_executives .. bgi_tanker .. ONCVshiantamatoo .. etc .. these characters are either placeholders or have only 1 outfit yet they are given an ONCV each .. however many of the new characters such as casey, kojiro, shiatamabot, the hasegawas and other custom made ones have several outfits and hence their own ONCV and every time someone downloads them i have to say also download the new oncvs package (you can't simply include it in each character package cz the one with higher number might be older and not have the newer oncv hence will overwrite a newer package which may have a lower number and thus the newer oncv won't be in the onvl and game crashes) .. I see no harm in including them will make all released characters easier to install .. in addition they have no placeholders all are released already. If u are going to remove the AE new characters and include some like casey, kojiro, blackops caren then the newer ONVL and ONCVs are crucial.

Have a button to order by alphabet or by dependency.

dependency means numbers ? hope so.
what i understood from dependency is example : Ed's china mod level requires to install casey, hayate and hanako .. the AE will check for the prerequisites packages and warn you if not present.
also if possible to include a compatibility checker .. if package X is incompatible with package Y and both are included AE installer will warn you. (incompatibility means crashes .. example my character retexture package shouldn't be installed with TOCS's comguy retexture but that's not an incompatibility (game won't crash) .. however Exploding barrel has an incompatibility with grey fury, let the modder flag the package as incompatible with another).
also hope to include more sorting orders in the AE installer like the mod depot : by creator, by type .. 


...The mod community wasn't in full swing while I was still active and there weren't many mods that were up to the quality standards I wanted. Why not hand the reins over to someone else with more time to handle releases? I suppose that boils down to me not trusting anyone else to do it. That's selfish and egotistical of me, I know. It is part of the reason AE releases have stalled, the other being that we don't have any other C++ coders to take over AEInstaller.

mm ok ... but there are several modders that can be trusted now or do u still feel the same ? EdT and paradox for example who have been here for years and modded their asses off tongue and well maybe me big_smile i have been here since 2009 and haven't stopped modding since .. regarding some stuff of course some mods are beyond me (i can help evaluate\test\compile  mainly characters, textures, tram and various xml stuff) .. particles, levels, scripts, programming are beyond me. .. for example those of us who have the time to test and play the stuff can report our recommendations to you ... then you can decide. But that means you have to trust our recommendations and not go retest everything again that will allow you time to focus on programming and updating the AE installer and bink32 which only you can do.

another suggestion is for us current modders to have a new mod package collection that combines our best work and some modding tools and the AE installer and onisplit (Ed, paradox, script, VR, myself) .. not necessarily called an anniversary edition. then we can have a major anniversary edition update when you're ready to work on the AE installer again .. I realize it's hard for you to think of someone else picking the mods .. but really you could give it a try once tongue as I said it will allow you more time to work on programming which only you can do and will allow us to feel included as part of the "AE team" each using his expertise smile


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#6 29/10/12 12:49

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Iritscen wrote:

I'm actually more in favor of stripping almost all third-party mods from the AE and leaving only the "tweaks" like dash blur and knockdown revamp (because those aren't "sexy mods" that people will seek out and download, and because they're tiny).

I agree in addition to other simple bug fixes stunned throws fix upgraded onccs ..

If we grant the Installer the ability to display the mods on the Depot by category, there's no reason we can't just present that menu in the Installer and let users download what they want on demand.  After all, several of the mods have been revised several times each, so why release something that will soon be out of date?  The same goes for OniSplit -- a version should obviously be included (it has to be, for installation to work), but there should also be an auto-update function that lets the user download a new version when available.

I agree on the concept but what worries me is for those who might be downloading the AE for one time or got it form a friend or something or those who have unreliable internet like me big_smile

This would ultimately have the effect of putting the selection of mods out of our hands and make it unnecessary to continually release new Editions (except for the occasional maintenance update of the Installer).  But I would still want to recommend a few mods in the read-me or in the Installer, just to give players a good first impression of the community's modding efforts; they would just be links, though, to be downloaded at the player's choice.

I also prefer that .. not favoring any mod over the other  .. I suggested to have a pdf file that displays the current or most recommended mods with screenshots and links like a mod catalog included with the AE ( i can make that) - like the official mod list thread - (the benefit is to have an offline file .. most users just download and don't browse the forum don't know why :\ !!) that suggestion was ignored tongue ... or have the AE installer have an obvious button "GO TO MOD DEPOT" or "GO TO OFFICIAL MOD LIST" ( i personally think it's better to include the forum not just the depot)

Last edited by Samer (29/10/12 12:55)


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#7 30/10/12 7:33

s10k
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Gumby wrote:

No reason to not have both, especially if we have dependancy checking.

Both don't have dependencies, I have just picked up your packaged and updated the texture color. Dunno if we should have both, I think it may me a little redundant. More opinions?

Gumby wrote:

It is part of the reason AE releases have stalled, the other being that we don't have any other C++ coders to take over AEInstaller.

I may help with the c++ programming, at least now. The major problem will be free time to work on it.

Iritscen wrote:

I'm actually more in favor of stripping almost all third-party mods from the AE and leaving only the "tweaks" like dash blur and knockdown revamp (because those aren't "sexy mods" that people will seek out and download, and because they're tiny).

I agree we should keep the Edition was close to original, only with some tweaks like better textures or blood. If we start to put every mod on it beside increase it size dramatically it may also transform the game too much which will not fit with some players preferences. A demonstration level may be nice too, so player know we already have new levels.

Iritscen wrote:

The same goes for OniSplit -- a version should obviously be included (it has to be, for installation to work), but there should also be an auto-update function that lets the user download a new version when available.

That would be awesome, plus a notification when there's a new version of one of our packages, plus the ability to install and download them automatically.

Iritscen wrote:

But I would still want to recommend a few mods in the read-me or in the Installer, just to give players a good first impression of the community's modding efforts; they would just be links, though, to be downloaded at the player's choice.

Agree again this would be very helpful. Plus the popularity "tab" in installer that would show the most popular mods right now. I kinda like also the lite version of a AE where it would contain only a minimal ammount of mods and fixes, being a player choice to download anothers.

Samer wrote:

only konoko's throws work on VDG stunned enemies .. i made a package that allows all throws by all other characters to work on vdg stunned enemies .. useful for those who play as other characters.

I think that package may be handy.

Samer wrote:

Include the new character classes oncvs and onvl.

Is this character variant fix?
If so it may be handy to include it, but just if the new AE installer already checks for updates automatically. If not that package will get outdated pretty quickly.

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#8 30/10/12 7:49

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Script_10k wrote:

Both don't have dependencies, I have just picked up your packaged and updated the texture color. Dunno if we should have both, I think it may me a little redundant. More opinions?

I agree it's redundant .. one is enough .. the one that is more used .. ask those who use it.

I agree we should keep the Edition was close to original, only with some tweaks like better textures or blood. If we start to put every mod on it beside increase it size dramatically it may also transform the game too much which will not fit with some players preferences. A demonstration level may be nice too, so player know we already have new levels.

yes the arena level is small and good for a demonstration level it's about1.3 Mb
for textures as i said character retexture and severed and the HD (muro, griffin, konoko) .. for levels i think they'll make it too big and there are several versions so preferably just to include links to them.


Agree again this would be very helpful. Plus the popularity "tab" in installer that would show the most popular mods right now. I kinda like also the lite version of a AE where it would contain only a minimal ammount of mods and fixes, being a player choice to download anothers.

also agree but again stressing the importance that there are more mods available not just the ones that come with AE ... most users won't notice on their own :\ and if gonna use the depot all old - non package mods should be removed. the depot can be overwhelming for new users hence the official mod list may be preferable will also encourage users to use the forum .. or as i suggested also including an offline pdf mod catalog maybe can be updated and downloaded automatically monthly.


Is this character variant fix?
If so it may be handy to include it, but just if the new AE installer already checks for updates automatically. If not that package will get outdated pretty quickly.

No it won't become outdated the one I have released now is the latest and the FINAL one. I won't be making any more characters with new classes .. any other that will be released will use ONCVany, (only Sarai may have different outfits and that ONCV is already included. If the AE can come with ONCV for shinatamtoo and ninjabot (single outfit each ... and ONCVs for placeholders that may never be made) it can surely handle ONCVcasey or ONCVjamie or ONCVkojiro which are released, good quality and have several outfits, all it will do is make installing those mods easier, won't increase the size won't cause bugs, not installing it will cause game to crash. And I don't think any one new is gonna come mod characters yet alone to mod one with several outfits and ONCV. so I don't see how it will be outdated or any reason not to include it.

Last edited by Samer (30/10/12 7:58)


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#9 30/10/12 9:48

Loser
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Brutal AI - cut it out please. It was NOT created nor intended to be distributed to end users. It was a showcase of MELE file modding.

Andrashi melee system - cut it out please. All fixes it used to do were "discovered" and distributed by Samer, so use his packages instead. And on top of those now useless fixes, the mod brings only a broken attempt to balance gameplay. In fact it breaks it even more than it was in vanilla.

Knockdown bodies - I don't have autoritative rights over that package, but I vote to cut it out. It was an early experiment, not intended to be distributed to end users. Well, at least not intended by me (no idea about Geysers's feelings).

Last edited by Loser (30/10/12 9:49)


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#10 30/10/12 9:50

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Samer wrote:

also agree but again stressing the importance that there are more mods available not just the ones that come with AE ... most users won't notice on their own :\ and if gonna use the depot all old - non package mods should be removed. the depot can be overwhelming for new users hence the official mod list may be preferable will also encourage users to use the forum .. or as i suggested also including an offline pdf mod catalog maybe can be updated and downloaded automatically monthly.

Just to be clear on my suggestion, the AE I'm describing would only come with "tweak"-type mods, and the rest would be displayed in the Installer in a way that shows them to be available for download (probably using a menu to choose which type of mod to display, such as Characters, Levels, etc.).  Nobody would be looking directly at the Depot.

The Installer would also be able to automatically ignore things like non-packages because, unlike a forum post, the Depot is made of clearly-parseable data that is tagged and stored in a table.  If none of the current views are suitable for the Installer's parsing needs, then I can simply create a new view on the Depot that is meant strictly to be read by the Installer.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#11 30/10/12 9:56

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Loser wrote:

Andrashi melee system - cut it out please. All fixes it used to do were "discovered" and distributed by Samer, so use his packages instead.

mmm mine only fixes stunned throws and jewels hit  (Except for robots) ... andrashi melee system makes some supers semivulenrable and less unblockable .. I like these changes (though i think some need a bit more balancing as some slow supers have become useless since they are vulnerable .. like tanker's heavy punch) ..

Last edited by Samer (30/10/12 10:03)


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#12 1/11/12 12:49

uroboros
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

I remember it took me a while to find  and install all the cool mods which I'm using right now when I have discovered AE.
So I think that new Anniversary Edition should contain the most  popular mods created so far (like new textures, characters, levels etc.)
But because It would be a rather heavy file maybe there should be 2 versions of AE available for download.

-AE with smaller modifications and fixes, like blood mod, dashing ai etc.

-AE with with the most popular mods from the mod depot.

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#13 1/11/12 17:53

s10k
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

That's a good point. Two versions may be an option, but how would we define popularity? By download count?

Last edited by s10k (1/11/12 17:53)

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#14 2/11/12 13:39

ltemplar
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

In my opinion..screw the mod things..literally.

What the new anniversary edition should have(in my opinion) is:

-all programs that upgrading game itself(daodan dll- for example)
- onisplit (latest version) and mod installer
-few little changes in game engine(hack) like more chars ,weapons for single save point(100 will be the perfect number here for chars 200 for weapons). Or what samer suggest..a little bit increase in polygon counter(to bypass that annoying buffer overflow issue- or whatever it's called)
-all textures should be globalized (to make things easy to mod)

Thats all things we really need to have there...others like mods,tools, etc are connected to personal taste of the user and can't be decided which one should be included as primary. In my opinion some description where to find them will be more than enough, than making huge package only to put things that can be found easily by the user himself.

Last edited by ltemplar (2/11/12 15:09)

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#15 10/11/12 13:51

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Well this was fruitful tongue glad we reached a conclusion ..
Oh wait ..


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#16 18/11/12 13:09

Seventeen Seconds
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Easy addition... have you guys considered a little new music?

Not resource intensive but it adds a lot to the experience.

EDIT:  I would be willing to help out add few new weapons/weapons animations for this edition... I have more free time now than any time since '06.

Last edited by Seventeen Seconds (18/11/12 13:15)

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#17 18/11/12 13:27

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Iritscen wrote:

   

Samer wrote:

the AE installer should have the ability to display the mods by package number order not only alphabetically ..
    I mean it doesn't have to show the actual number in the AE installer but have them sorted by number ..
    Reason is sorting them by package number makes related mods after each other and allows you to see which will overwrite which easily.

I agree, the Installer should do something like this.  I would also like the AEI to detect when a package will overwrite another and either print a warning below that mod's info in the side panel, or else compile a list of overwrite warnings in the window somewhere so the user knows exactly what is being overwritten by what.  It would be easy to program, but I don't know how to represent it onscreen; for instance, how do I convey which files are being overwritten when there is only partial overlap between packages?  If you have any suggestions for doing this, please put them in one of the relevant AE threads so I can have everything in one place.

I think having them arranged in order of package number would be enough to know what is being overwritten by what ...
looking at AE installer list for example (following package number order)

Severed Textures
VR Konoko
HD Konoko

looking at this the user will know that Konoko HD will overwrite both VR and Severed textures of Konoko if the 3 are installed together so if he wants VR konoko he'd disable HD konoko. but he can still install Severed textures with HD konoko to get the textures for Muro and Shini for example. I think this will depend on the user's knowledge of the mod's content, so as modders we have to clearly and in detail state what each mod contains and user wold have to fully read the description in the right panel of the AE installer. (the gui could be more user friendly, like the depot displaying type, and platform and content)
as for warning ... I'm only with displaying a warning if the 2 packages installed together will make game crash .. example a package with a higher number with old ONVL and any of my characters with a newer ONVL but lower number .. (in that case game will crash, so here a warning is necessary)
but in case of for example Severed and HD Konoko .. ther's overwriting but no compatibility problem.
to make things easier .. I don't know if this is possible .. when ticking mods in the AE installer would it be possible for the installer to highlight or underline or change color of any 2 ticked mods that have overlapping files ? this is easily visually identified by the user ..
say you install Muro HQ and Severed Textures .. and Character retexture then these 3 mods would be highlighted in red in the AE installer list .. and the user will know there are overlapping files .. then looking at the order they appear in he'd know which is overwriting which ..
for being more specific as in which files i don't think it would be necessary for a user to know that TXMPiteration001%2FMO_head is overwritten..

for modders we'll have to specify which mods if installed together will crash the game .. in this case a warning box should be displayed (with continue or abort options) .. (for overlapping files only highlighting ..)
the overlapping files if possible could be automated .. when 2 mods are ticked the AEI checks the 2 package folders for files of same name but different size or content, if found it highlights the 2 mods with same color.

Last edited by Samer (18/11/12 13:31)


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#18 18/11/12 14:36

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Yes, I might just use an icon or a highlight color to show which packages have overlap.  That will at least give the user a heads-up to expect that something funny may happen.  As far as detecting what will cause a crash, I'm not really sure how to do that, aside from the one ONVL example you gave.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#19 18/11/12 15:17

s10k
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

The crash could be defined the Mod_Info.cfg I believe? Plus the dependencies (when a dependency isn't found some message should be displayed).

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#20 18/11/12 17:32

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Ah, good points.  That sounds feasible.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#21 20/11/12 8:36

EdT
Moderator

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Seventeen Seconds:  Good to see you again, hope you can spend lots more time modding Oni.  smile

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#22 5/12/12 1:40

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Another thing to include in the next AE a little fix.
the back throw of TCTF SWATs (Blackops and normal swats) doesn't do any damage.

the fix for that is in the TRAM : TRAMTCTCOMthrow_bk_p_tgt  in 52000AndrashiTRAM and in Golbalize\Glass folder .. we have this :
<SelfDamage>
            <Damage>
                <Points>30</Points>
                <Frame>170</Frame>
            </Damage>
        </SelfDamage>

it should be :
<SelfDamage>
            <Damage>
                <Points>30</Points>
                <Frame>71</Frame>
            </Damage>
        </SelfDamage>


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#23 16/12/12 15:57

EdT
Moderator

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Dashing bug: I fixed some of them years ago... now to find the files...

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#24 16/12/12 18:21

Samer
Member

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

The AE installer list seems complete smile

For the AE itslef the little bugs I mentioned before :
TRAM fixes:
*damage for TCTF back throw
*the tanker super sounds are switched (an AE package switches them not sure which at the moment but I mentioned it on another thread)
*throws of all characters should work on Vdg stunned enemies
*jewels hit effect for comguy TRAC based characters except robots (vanilla only works on striker TRAC based characters)

I can provide all the mentioned fixed TRAMS

*I have an issue with knockdown revamp package even after I disable it bugs appear such as throws knocking out thrower and fists of legends not working. (enabling the package fixes the issue) I can make a video to show what I mean.

Other fixes :
improved weapons : the plasma rifle knocks down enemies, it should only knock them down if they're jumping. Damage type of particle should be changed back to original.
Mercury bow no longer knocks down enemies in the improved weapons .. Maybe we can vote if that's something that should be kept. I personally prefer the original effect where it does knock down enemies.
Or as suggested before .. Don't include this package in AE and make it downloadable as it modifies content rather than fix bugs.

*Including the ONCVs and ONVL I talked about before to allow easy installation of new characters as they are released and have several outfits and lack of it will crash game, and AE already has unused placeholders and classes for characters with 1 outfit. It doesn't affect anything negatively and as I said before the current ONVL / ONCV is the final one.

some other minor stuff
*TCTFs attack civilians in TCTF HQ .. Fix is to change the team of the civilians to TCTF in the BINA..character file. (some civilians are already TCTF team)

*in upgraded onccs pack add more health to femcops .. They die really quickly even on hard and with upgraded oncc installed.

wish list :
* change the weapon models to new ones for the new AE weapons such as telekinetic bracelet, the portable wave cannon, bgi rocket launcher .. Instead of recoloring the original weapons as is done currently.
There are several usable models on the free model sites.
(if they are still going to be included,.. Or preferably also remove from AE and make them a standalone downloadable package in combination with other weapons by onirules and EdT

*add to the depot a field for mod number and ability to arrange mods by mod number as Iritscen and I discussed before smile

*restore the download counter to the depot and allow sorting by popularity on the depot and in AE installer.

Last edited by Samer (16/12/12 18:46)


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#25 16/12/12 21:27

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: Next Anniversary Edition ideas and discussion

Okay, I'm going to have to spend some time tracking down many of the changes you speak of.  Right now I don't even know if some of them are Globalization fixes or one of the included AE packages.  This is why I had pushed a couple times for an XML comparison tool, so I can easily see what values and properties are being assigned in what files.  Since we do have more tools now from Lukas Kreator and others, perhaps the job will be easier.

*I would like to see the knockdown revamp issue you're talking about, this is the first time I've heard of a bug remaining after a package is uninstalled.

*I think the Improved Weapons package will be broken out of the AE (become standalone).  It was always unfinished, and I think that probably if someone takes it under their wing, it can be made a lot better, but I can't take the time to do that myself.

*I think it's been decided that we will include the ONVL/ONCVs with the new characters in them.  Repeat, we will include that smile

*This is also the first I'm hearing of there being a fix to the TCTF civilian problem.  I was only aware of an old explanation by geyser that the AI was randomly getting confused by Syndies seeing their TCTF enemies and neutral civvies at the same time, and accidentally glomming the "enemy" label onto civvies too.  Have you actually tested this fix?

*I think the AE's New Weapons will probably be broken out too.

I definitely don't have time to fiddle with things like getting new models for the New Weapons mod, but certainly I want to correct all the tweaks and fixes that come as part of the core AE (Globalization).  Possibly even those fixes should be broken out into packages that come with the AE, instead of files dispersed throughout the hierarchy inside Globalization.  At the very least, I need to know what all those fixes actually do, as some of them date back to geyser's 2008 release and no one has ever documented them to my knowledge.

I will continue to update the AE to-do list as I have time to absorb and review what Samer and others have written over time on this AE forum.


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