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#1 24/10/07 0:03

Magus
Member
From: Houston
Registered: 19/10/07
Website

Posibillities

This post is mainly about my desire to update oni by modding a more recent game.


I was thinking about how I would go about creating new oni material and when I started investigating it more and more seriously I came up with some surprising results. The most difficult aspect of the whole thing is the hand to hand combat as many fps games can be altered fairly easily , the problem is the hand to hand combat just isn't really present in any of the more modern games. At first I thought of F.E.A.R. which seemed like a good idea, because it already imploys some basic hand to hand attacks, but the level of know how and the work involved in modding it to that extent would practically mean rewriting the game.

There is a really long list but what I finally came up with are basically these few:
Counter Strike Source
Unreal
Half Life 2
(and surprisingly after looking into it.)
Farcry

....would love to mod Prince of Persia, but the engine just isn't made to be tampered with I still think some of the original oni developers may have had a hand in creating the combat style for the prince of persia games....

though granted farcry is the most difficult to mod to the extent we are talking about here. Most of these have been modded to some crazy extents, (some successfully, others not so much) Don't get me wrong there's quite a bit involved in rewriting any of them to the level we're talking about, though a somewhat workable DragonBall Z mod was made for counterstrike, with only a small team of people working on it, and it's also the game I understand the most having already made some custom levels (maps) for it. Plus having the currently available mod to look at for reference material could help develop the hand to hand combat.
Anyhow I was wondering if anyone else had given the modding other games to create a updated version of oni any thought, and what they had come up with in the process. There are obviously some die hard fans here, but I'm kind of doubting we have the resources to build an entire game from the ground up, even modding to this extent could easily take a year or two to work out properly.  Anyhow, I'm putting this out there mainly to get general feedback, from the community here. Especially curious if anyone has made any attempts at this so far. You'll have to forgive me but I really didn't feel like digging through this forum going through every old post and the search feature doesn't seem to like me much, so feel free to link me to other posts on the topic as well.

A side thought I had was the "look" of the thing, as I think even with the vastly improved graphics available now, it seems to me I would want to keep a bit of a 3D anime look to oni, just seems like it would feel more right. On one hand it would make texturing a little easier as you can cheat a bit more when your going for an animated look, using fewer colors. In general there is already plenty of material here on the forums to draw from for content ideas, as the ideas for oni2 thread is loaded with good ideas.

...Guess that's it for the moment, mainly I just want some feedback before taking this to any kind of "next level thing" though if I get some time in the next week I may play with creating some CS:S maps and possibly some players skins/models once I educate myself on how the models work a little more, as CS:S is a bit resistant to model changing for anticheat purposes online.

Anyhow, someone respond even if it's to say your freaking crazy man....

Last edited by Magus (24/10/07 0:17)


The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable.
- Sun Tzu

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#2 24/10/07 0:21

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Posibillities

Here is an experiment using the Serious Engine:
http://wiki.oni2.net/index.php/Serious_Konoko

This engine is also a possibility:
http://wolfire.com/lugaru.html

Hope these can give you a workable project.

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#3 24/10/07 0:45

Magus
Member
From: Houston
Registered: 19/10/07
Website

Re: Posibillities

brief glances look promising wasn't familiar with wolfire at all, so I'll have to download that and see how it actually flows. Sometimes "rag doll physics" can be bad words...

So far as Serious Konoko, I have a lot of respect for the work being done there. I'm just looking for a minimal learning curve for me, so I came up with games I know well. Counter Strike I have been playing constantly since the beta in early 1999 (that was before the source engine, but surprisingly a lot of the basics have remained the same), I have made maps, done server modifications, some minor game scripting, and I've already made some basic custom skins, which really only leaves me needing to learn how to create player models. Plus the physics in the source engine will save a lot of issues I might have with motion otherwise.

At any rate despite my current tendancy to lean towards that game engine, the whole reason I asked for input was to get a better idea of what's out there and what my options are, not too mention an opprotunity to suck up ideas from other mod projects so...

feel free to throw links at me as I plan to build a small database up and look over everything in detail this weekend. Personal insight from anyone that is currently , or has worked on anything would probably be more help than a thousand links though. My current timeline is to suck up as much as I can and begin work by the end of november.. if I stick with counterstrike, I might be able to produce a short playable level by christmas. If I find myself drawn to another game engine, it could take considerably longer. Anyhow, that's where my mind is at right now I have a couple of friends willing to help me with some basics and I'm hoping if I produce something raw, I can get a bit more help from the community at large.
Anyhow, my insomnia has gotten the best of me tonight I tend to ramble, on the bright side at least you all know where I'm at now.

p.s. hey geyser if you happen across this, I would appreciate anything you have to say as well.

Last edited by Magus (24/10/07 2:14)


The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable.
- Sun Tzu

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#4 24/10/07 9:14

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Posibillities

I have to say that Lugaru is the only game I've seen with combat as engaging and well-designed as Oni.  If that engine could be used, it could be very promising indeed.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#5 4/11/07 7:27

bboyzagy
Member
Registered: 27/7/07

Re: Posibillities

What about Matrix Path Of Neo???? It has so much hand to hand combos and so much weapons that i think it should be a good engine to place Oni on but I don't know if it's legal.... Or maybe Max Payne? I've seen people make matrix mods and blade mods and equilibrium based mods so why not make an Oni mod for max payne 2???? It's possible I mean they made a street fighter mod for Max Payne 2!


The B-Boy Style Will Live On

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#6 10/11/07 13:41

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Posibillities

There's a kung-fu mod for Max Payne, but I'm not sure Konoko Payne isn't better smile

@: Magnus
AFAIK there are three things that are usually quite primitive in modern FPS and rather dissuasive to reimplement. These things are collision detection, character animation, and melee AI.
I'm not familiar with Source (although I've been considering getting the Orange Box), and I don't know you (yet) so I don't know how much you'll be able to squeeze out of their SDK.
Personally, I'm not as fluent a coder as Pierre, and when it comes to the Serious SDK I can only expect to make Serious Konoko a decent TPS with a little rudimentary melee...
I also can testify that the community of a popular game (e.g., Serious Sam) is rather edgy when it comes to using that game's engine to recreate a copyrighted franchise (Oni).
Serious Konoko is currently idle, one reason being that I wouldn't be able to release any content publicly (since it's been ripped from Oni), let alone set up a multiplayer server.
I do have a few original models (Iron Demon, Mukade), but they do not justify modding at the originally intended scale. I still might import a few levels for kicks, though.
The story with Phoenix is a bit different. The engine is apparently powerful and versatile (procedural animation, solid melee component, multiplayer, cross-platform GUI).
But: the development is a bit slow (and the developers are a bit arrogant smile ). I don't know when or if Lugaru 2 will be released, or if it will be subject to modding by us.

Good luck with your project anyway. Me and the other Oni hackers can always provide you with documentation of how things are handled in Oni.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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