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#1 24/5/07 14:45

bluetard117
Member
Registered: 24/5/07

Use of a different engine for Oni

Has anyone thought of using the Source engine for Oni? Its free if you already own HL2, and its a great physics engine as well as a very good graphics engine. I realize that you would most likely want to convert all of Oni to Source, then give characters and levels more detail, such as a higher poly count, and better textures.

Does anyone know of a way to extract the models and the animations from Oni and compile it in to a .MDL format? If so, thanks a million.

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#2 24/5/07 15:01

Alloc
Member
From: Germany -> Darmstadt
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

Using Oni's content in a different engine wouldn't be the problem imho ... It's just that you wouldn't get anywhere close to Oni because AFAIK there's engine out there that has really fitting h2h-combat support. Geyser was trying to port Oni to SeriousEngine2, don't know if he's still working on that.

Regards,
Alloc


ONI2.net, link to just any important resource-pages about ONI.

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#3 24/5/07 18:54

bluetard117
Member
Registered: 24/5/07

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

true. i noticed that Valve doesnt have great hitboxes running for it either. but there probably is a way to code it to be a mesh hitbox ( idk the actual word for it, triangle collision?), and have the hand to hand combat running for it at a decent quality. and the great h2h combat effects are usually more of Bungie doing a good job at animations.

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#4 24/5/07 20:28

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

export to .MDL ... not yet, and probably never. Oni's animations are unlike HL's because there are literally hundreds of them for every character.
So packing them together with every character's model would be utterly senseless. As a matter of fact, animations are largely shared between character classes.
The engine has to support at least that in order to replicate Oni's animation system: read - animations should have a global status, and characters should be able to share them.
Serious Engine 2 has neat animation collections that work mostly the same way as Oni's, so when I get around to exporting Oni's fighting system, it will be to SE2 and nothing else.

Another thing that you'd need to do is to set up a proper system of animation lookups for those hundreds of anims per character, grouped in types/states/whatever.
Typically, a FPS only needs a dozen such groups: Oni has, again, several hundred, all linked through custom-made lookups and keypress events...
So it's one thing to export a bunch of models and anims (it's very easy, actually), the real challenge begins afterwards.
Which is why I haven't been too eager to export anything so far, even if I already contacted Croteam and got the SDK needed to do the job.

H2h collision is a whole different issue, as it's another feature that's not supported at all by most FPS engines out there. So you'd basically have to code that (almost) from scratch, if the SDK allows for it.

And I don't even mention AI... Oni's AI is made dumb "on purpose" so that it doesn't put players off, but it's awfully smart about h2h. In order to make AI dodge and block like in Oni, a lot of additional data and algorithms need to be transferred to the new engine, or replaced with new solutions.

If you want to get an impression of how much work it is, have a look at Pierre's Konoko Payne.

Last edited by geyser (24/5/07 20:31)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#5 24/5/07 20:30

Last_Hero
Member
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

I'm no expert on the Source engine but I don't think that the engine is capable of working in the manner that a game like Oni requires.
That is just speculation and I don't actually know since I know very little about the technical limitations or capabilities of the engine.

I don't really think it is possible to port the game to another engine and keep the feel of the gameplay as it is, and it is the gameplay that keeps us coming back and playing Oni over and over again.
Feel free to disregard my comments though, as I am still a rookie in the field of video game engines and how video games work.


That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die

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#6 24/5/07 20:36

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

Konoko Payne aims to replicate Oni's gameplay, and has come quite a long way.
There's an occasional "so close... and yet so far" impression to it, sure.
But it's definitely proof that Oni's gameplay is not beyond replication.

Unfortunately, most engines out there are tailored for FPS purposes.
SE2 is a seeming exception in that it has a fresh, modular design.
So it could be expanded to accomodate games like Oni.

And then there's always homemade engines such as Pierre's...

As for Source, what I know/assume of it rules it right out ATM.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#7 25/5/07 3:21

Pierre
Member
Registered: 24/1/07

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

Has anyone thought of using the Source engine for Oni? Its free if you already own HL2, and its a great physics engine as well as a very good graphics engine. I realize that you would most likely want to convert all of Oni to Source, then give characters and levels more detail, such as a higher poly count, and better textures.

And who's going to create those detailled characters and better textures? smile If we had them, I would use them right away.

As others pointed out, typical FPS engines out there (including Source & Unreal 3) dont help a bit for a Oni-like game.

idk the actual word for it, triangle collision

"Triangle collisions" actually suck for gameplay. You punch, seen from behind it looks like you touched the opponent, but nothing happens because in fact the triangles just missed themselves by a tiny margin. It looks stupid. It looks like a bug.... (I tried). Coarse collisions feel better.

Konoko Payne aims to replicate Oni's gameplay, and has come quite a long way.
There's an occasional "so close... and yet so far" impression to it, sure.

...working on it... ~1 hour a day after midnight, can't get too much done like this.

- Pierre

Last edited by Pierre (25/5/07 3:22)

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#8 25/5/07 14:09

WickedClown
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 25/5/07

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

Ah techno babble... sometimes I feel so dumb... roll
This is totally out of my league. I do know some basics though.
But even an amateur like me can guess that the best choice for an alternative engine for the oni would be something like Hitman's or BloodRayne or something like that. I don't know what an engine should have for a oni style game, but I guess that a third-person with good enough animation moves for the character is the right choice, no? The big picture is that a game like that have to be fast enough with dynamic (and real?) character moves, and that animations shouldn't be sloppy (like they are in 5th Element the Game)right? Well, that's just my thoughts, like I said, I'm no pro. wink

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#9 27/5/07 5:11

bluetard117
Member
Registered: 24/5/07

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

oh well. it was an idea.

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#10 29/7/07 21:06

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

Here's some links regarding Blender's game engine, I don't know anything about it, I'll let you all decide! :-)

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BSoD/ … ame_Engine

http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine … php?id=347

http://blenderartists.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12

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#11 29/7/07 21:23

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

10000 polys isn't much. I'm having my fun with SE2 at the moment. Finally got around to importing some stuff, mostly vehicles right now.
Riding Konoko's bike sure feels cool, but as more meshes and levels follow, I get this uneasy feeling about ripping. Dunno how this will end.
The problem is that while no one seems to care about the legal aspects of Pierre's KonokoPayne, I don't think Croteam & Co will let it pass.

Last edited by geyser (29/7/07 21:28)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#12 30/7/07 10:16

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

So... can you post a movie of the fun you're having with SE2? :-)

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#13 31/7/07 19:31

Ether
Member
From: Czech Republic
Registered: 26/5/07

Re: Use of a different engine for Oni

The question is: Whose would the Oni remake be? As long as all right belongs to CroTeam, I think there's no problem.

And the another question is: Will anybody care about ripping Oni stuff?

Just some thoughts... tongue

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