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#1 10/14/09 22:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I am taking a stand and making a call to action!  We've come a long way and had many accomplishments.  It's time...

We're going to make the BGI level.

I'm willing to put forth a lot of grunt work on it.  I feel like I'm decent at BSL now, I'm willing to create BINACJBOCharacter files for enemies and I'm interested in getting more into custom characters with move sets and melee profiles and stuff.  However, I'm not interested in texturing...  And I feel like the BGI need to be revamped.  Potentially some new textures, more/different characters, custom move sets...

Anyway, I could provide a lot of "production" aka ideas lol, and grunt work BSL scripting, but I'm gonna have to look more into other types of XML editing 'cause as of now all I've done are BINACHAR and BINAFLAG.

But the more people who get behind the project, the more people are LIKELY to get behind it because who wants to just be working on it all by themselves?

So let's start brainstorming...  First off, I think the State Building would be a good choice because of its non-linear layout, so we can make it totally different from the original.

Thoughts on level choice, layout, objectives, BGI characters?

GO!

Last edited by Leus (10/16/09 02:10)


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#2 10/14/09 22:10

Gumby
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From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I would be willing to help (mostly bugfixing and idea generating). I've got my own map project to work on, still.


Iritscen: roll
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#3 10/14/09 22:10

Leus
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From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Really, what are you doin?


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#4 10/14/09 22:10

Gumby
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From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Secret. tongue


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#5 10/14/09 23:10

Leus
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From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Damn and you're goin' it all alone?  Well I'm stoked for it.  smile

Got any ideas off the top of your head for the BGI level?  How do you feel about the state building idea?


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#6 10/14/09 23:10

EdT
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 01/13/07
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I'm working on something for the mod fair, that may fit in with your idea  smile

One idea I have is to play part of the level as another character. For example
Save point 1: Konoko has an objective.
Save point 2: Casey needs to accomplish something so Konoko can continue
Save point 3: Konoko goes on to next objective.

Count me in.

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#7 10/15/09 00:10

Leus
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From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I DIG that.

Should we explain how Konoko and Casey hooked up and started working together?


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#8 10/15/09 08:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

CASEY big_smile !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love the idea EdT

I'm going to renew the textures and even maybe Their TRBS (especially for the 4 agents in coats)  and modify the moves and TRAMS give them a unique move set smile I already began to ^_^ and if time permits continue the melee profiles ... I'm still waiting for Gumby's fix  though .. about the super moves lacking in the Brutal AI melee profile ... to know which melee profile I should work on .

the white chief and black chief are also going to be updated soon with a lot of badass moves wink and maybe they can count as a special forces for the BGI


so count me in too ^_^

Last edited by Samer (10/15/09 08:10)


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#9 10/15/09 08:10

Samer
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From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
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Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

the regional building sounds good ... I also suggest the second level ... ( wasn't there a deadly brain in there which has something to do with BGI .. right ? )


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#10 10/15/09 09:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Well, there's one major roadblock, which is that we can't import new levels.  I know you suggested using an existing level, but to the best of my knowledge, Neo has been working on level importing for a while now.  Imagine if we finished turning an existing level into the BGI level and right after that Neo released a new OniSplit that would allow new levels to be made!  We wouldn't exactly be eager to start over with a new map at that point.

The thing about BGI is that it has the potential to draw people's attention to the community, and so it's one of those "wanting to make a good impression" things.  Contrast reusing an existing level with using a totally new level such as this one:
dystopia18.jpg

The truth is that we in the AE Team were already privately planning the story and gameplay for BGI, since it's traditionally been an AE initiative.  Now, that doesn't mean we can't use some outside help; there will be a few needs to fill once we can import levels, such as flag placing, texturing, furniture modeling -- and, as Leus suggested, we should really use BGI models that aren't such direct rips from Halo.

But the fact is, rather than anyone dragging their heels, we've been waiting for the tools to mature to the point that we can execute the project in a professional manner that advertises for the community.  When you think about it, OniSplit is only two years old this month, and it's come a long way in the last year.  There's hardly anything left to add to it except the ability to generate pathfinding grids.  So patience might be a virtue in this area.

I think that once you guys see the storyline for BGI you'll see why we probably shouldn't reuse a level.  There's a certain order that things need to go in: story first, gameplay second, level third.  So if you start with the level, your options as far as gameplay (and story, to a degree) are being impinged upon.  The write-up for the level is still technically a rough draft, and with Gumby and I busy with the AE, it probably won't get posted until the end of the month or some time in November.  Then you guys can give us your feedback.  That way, we're starting with the story and seeing where it leads us, instead of starting with a level and working our way back to a story.  Does that make sense to everyone?


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#11 10/15/09 11:10

dream996
Member
Registered: 03/15/09

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

looking great ...
it would be great could have a level package  big_smile

Last edited by dream996 (10/15/09 11:10)


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#12 10/15/09 11:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Iritscen:  I understand.  I wasn't really thinking of making like the official delving into the BGI story, but maybe just a like a warm-up to practice working with them some more.  In fact, I largely suggested the idea to spark a revamp of the BGI characters into more unique and diverse ones from the old characters.

Is there any way I could get VIP access into this project lol?  I feel like I could contribute stuff.  Or, what kind of help do you guys need on the AE team or anything like that?


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#13 10/15/09 11:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Iritscen u're definitely right smile

do I have the green light to work on the characters ? TRBS - Textures and MOVES ...

if the end result doesn't look suitable for the project  I can always call them something other than BGI tongue


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#14 10/15/09 12:10

Leus
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From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I think that whatever you do will be a beneficial contribution, Samoko.  smile


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#15 10/15/09 12:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Leus wrote:

I wasn't really thinking of making like the official delving into the BGI story, but maybe just a like a warm-up to practice working with them some more.  In fact, I largely suggested the idea to spark a revamp of the BGI characters into more unique and diverse ones from the old characters.

Yes, and I agree with you.  In fact one of the items on the AE to-do list for an indefinite point in the future is "Create a new model for the BGI troops".  The current model, based on you-know-who, was used because we had just gotten character model-importing off the ground and wanted to test it without taking the time to produce a model from scratch for the test.  And I am not even opposed to finding some tactful way to use the MC in Oni, but naturally it would be weird for those who've played Halo to find themselves fighting variations on its main character.  It was suggested by geyser that they remain cloaked in their appearances in the story so that we can't tell who they look like, but in fact we had always hoped to either alter the models, or make new ones.

I think the first step would be concept sketches or something, wouldn't it?  They don't have to be polished and artsy -- just something rough for us to look at while discussing what changes to make.

Leus wrote:

Is there any way I could get VIP access into this project lol?  I feel like I could contribute stuff.  Or, what kind of help do you guys need on the AE team or anything like that?

Well, for the most part anything we work on is freely readable and editable on the wiki -- just not the BGI story because it was only recently written.  So there's not really any such thing as VIP access smile  Although, those who join the AE Team usually chat with and email each other about the work, so there is such a thing as being better connected than talking only on the forum.

As far as what help is needed (note that #s 3-5 are not relevant until we can import levels):
1. Character Modeling.  We had some eager newbies with modeling abilities, but they haven't been around lately, so the job of revising BGI is still open to any and all.  Preferably for someone who already has some 3D experience.
2. Character Texturing.  For the new BGI models.  I would say that if Severed wanted a first crack at this, this could go to him.  But I don't know yet if this will interest him.  We don't even know what the characters will look like until the modeling starts.
3. Level Texturing.  We might have someone professional who can do this.  Also, we might be able to use some existing/unused Oni textures.
4. Level stuff.  Flag placement, scripting, etc.  This would be pretty fun, esp. getting to script a level from scratch.  Hard work, though, with lots of testing and revisions required.  Gumby gets first dibs at this if he wants it, because of his experience.  But he might be overwhelmed with other stuff, so it's his call once we get to the point where we're ready to script.
5. Animations.  A few new animations for Konoko and others.  Animation experience preferred, but hey, we're a helpful community, so we can always provide constructive feedback.  We won't know our exact animation needs until the story is out of rough draft.

Samoko wrote:

do I have the green light to work on the characters ? TRBS - Textures and MOVES ...

Sure, what did you have in mind?  The story we're working on does not provide any guidelines about how BGI should fight or look, aside from the fact that they are going to be technologically advanced, and probably fond of cloaking smile, so it's a fairly blank canvas.


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#16 10/15/09 12:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Hmm...  I'm not visually artistic at all, but I could definitely help on the level stuff when we get down to it.

Also, are you only writing the BGI story to base the levels on, or do you have character concepts too?  I'mma come up with some character concepts...  Lol.


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#17 10/15/09 13:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

When you say "character concepts", are you referring to design concepts?


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#18 10/15/09 13:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Not visual/physical design.  Like...

BGI Shadow Walker:  Permanently cloaked from gene modification, they live their lives unseen.  Some go mad from the loneliness.  They are quick, tending to wait for the right moment and strike hard instead of an all-out assault.  From years of practice using their invisible appendages, they have honed their ability of precision and now possess near perfect aim with weapons.

Somethin, I just randomly threw that together right now.


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#19 10/15/09 15:10

EdT
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 01/13/07
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Leus: I think your idea would be a good "Trial Run" in learning how to script and mod a level. We can change existing level textures, change appearance of the sky and so on.

Make a simple storyline or objective and go from there.

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#20 10/15/09 16:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Leus: I see.  I suppose it's a question of whether we would change the moves the BGI troops currently use when we change their models.  I guess I just assumed that we would leave the same movesets.  Now, if we are going to make new characters with newly-designed movesets, then we should certainly start with concepts like the one you wrote up.

Now, EdT, are the current MC variants using direct copies of the movesets from existing character classes?  If so, it would probably be a good idea to mix things up a little.  So, Leus, if you want to write up some blurbs for different kinds of characters that run the gamut (snipers, agile guys, bulky guys) it might be a good starting point.  Then they can be designed visually and have their moves worked out.

Also, let's not forget that EdT designed some fairly original looking characters already, as seen here.  There's the male and female ninja, and we could probably use some of those BGI-style regular Oni foes too.


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#21 10/15/09 16:10

EdT
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 01/13/07
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

As far as I know, the MC varients and BGI troops have the standard moveset according to their types.

Last edited by EdT (10/15/09 16:10)

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#22 10/15/09 16:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

Yeah, I think we definitely need to create new movesets and hopefully melee profiles.  I know at least two people on this forum that are interested in that though and at least one who is actively doing it.  smile

I'll write up some rough ideas for characters.


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#23 10/15/09 19:10

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 05/29/07

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I waa planning on giving animating a crack, cept i could manage to export an existing animation to take it apart and see how to do it tongue

If someone could give me a tip on that, i could take a couple stabs at it.


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#24 10/16/09 01:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I am working on that :S !!!

I'm working on the BGI agents their move set new combos and new moves and textures and I have some good idea of how they're gonna look ... just wait tongue  I'll have a prototype by 2morrow big_smile

I got the move sets and the melee profile ... is everyone ok with that big_smile ?
I don't want to work on them then in the last moment have someone come say ... I made them already.


some ideas for Jubei and Akane

she should have some ninja moves especially the shadow dash and maybe the missing throws ... the running punch throw ... the ninja tackle and I can modify ninja's static punch throw and add it as a static kick throw ... and maybe some other mixes
+ I'll work on the upper part of the face make it more .. Severed like

same for the comguy ninja ... borrow some moves from ninja's and comguy's ... Kojiro's trac might be good with some modifications to it ... if someone saw it

as for the 4 agents in black coats I really have a good plan for them in mind ... and new moves.

Last edited by Samer (10/16/09 02:10)


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#25 10/16/09 02:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: It's time, guys. (BGI concepts discussion)

I'm down to see what you've got goin.  smile

Here are a few character ideas I threw together:



Potential BGI Characters (by Leus)



WOLVES
    A wolf is a mostly-regular man.  They form the bulk of the BGI combat force.  They are trained to always travel in packs, though; hence the name.  They are mainly assigned as security and backup to missions.

WRAITHS
    A wraith is a young woman who has had something bred into her genetics so that she cannot be seen.  When she goes into the field she is naked and therefore quite unable to withstand much physical punishment.  However, if allowed to hang back for long enough, the Wraith can regenerate her injuries quickly.  She prefers waiting and striking with quick, powerful attacks rather than upfront combat.  Also, years of honing precision without being able to see her appendages give her near perfect aim with a weapon, but when carrying one her position would be given away.  [The actual texturing on this character should just be entirely or mostly non-existent, instead of just giving her a cloaking ability.]

HYDRAS
    Contrary to the implication, a hydra only has one head.  She is a cyborg; her legs have been mechanically enhanced with hydraulic compression technology, giving her the ability to jump extremely high and deliver incredible damage with kick attacks.  She also has a partially electronic brain and sensory system, making her basically devoid of free will.

HAMMERS
    The Hammer is an early model combat-ready android developed by BGI.  It is slow moving both in travel and combat, but can withstand a lot of damage and delivers powerful blows from its arms which are weighted at the ends; hence the name.  It also can quickly close the gap between itself and an opponent with its ability to compress into a fast-rolling ball.  It is, however, only able to roll in a straight line.

COORDINATORS
    These men carry around extensive wave frequency-emitting technology.  They are often deployed along with BGI androids and cyborgs, improving their combat through close-range transmissions.  They also have the ability to take control of a single human's mind.  While doing so, they are rendered physically inactive and stationary, open to attack.  They lack considerable fighting ability regardless and are never deployed alone.  [Cannot control the player of course, or very can exert very limited/brief control.  Will choose to target players' allies if possible, or just avoid using this technique.]

SHIFTERS
    A shifter is a light-armored fighter with the ability to "blink" between two nearby locations or teleport long distances, allowing her to be deployed pretty much anywhere at any time.  Her fighting techniques involve precise utilization of this ability, often "blinking" to several different points around her opponent and usually not delivering more than a single quick attack at a time, "blinking" away before her opponent can turn to face her.

FORCES
    A force is a man with telekinetic abilities.  He can pull his opponents nearer or forcefully push them away, sending them sailing.  However, these things aren't very damaging so he often engages in regular hand-to-hand combat as well.

GANGERS
    A ganger has the ability to spawn (or always shows up with) two copies of himself.  These two copies can't hurt the player but can definitely confuse them.  They also cannot be killed.  When the original ganger is killed, the illusions disappear.  The ganger has decent fighting abilities, but relies more on the apparent barrage he brings.

RATS
    The BGI has been experimenting with daodan implementation for a long time.  The rats are the malnourished daodan symbiote test subjects usually kept in the holding cells or found in the labs.  They usually won't fight, but can sometimes be provoked to do so.  Some are quite strong due to the chrysalis despite their treatment.

ABOMINATIONS
    Some of the BGI's experiments go wrong but are still put to use.  The abominations are large, slow and disfigured.  They can withstand quite the beating and are immune to a large array of basic attacks.  They require something more brutal to take them down.  They don't strike fast, but when they hit they deliver considerable damage.

THE PRODIGAL
    Some of the BGI's experiments go right.  Either through mind control or convenient natural evil, each prodigy is super capable and willing to dispense some injustice.  [I'm thinking these could be a few higher-ups, maybe some boss battles.]



Edit:  I tried to stick with things I thought sounded somewhat feasible with the current capacity of Oni.  Maybe I went a little out-there on some ideas, but I could have gone a lot further.  smile

Edit edit:  Abominations sound too much like Hammers, actually.  Maybe Abominations could be a different subset of bosses with unique appearances and abilities; failed experiments that created disfigured, unruly things that are unleashed into battle like lions in the Colosseum.

Last edited by Leus (10/16/09 02:10)


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