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#26 14/4/09 12:15

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

paradox-01 wrote:

Ok, got it working on Win and Mac. But it's very hard. BTW, now I remember other teleporter. Ever played last level and found a striker behind the fence or a sniper who came down from his tower?

Oh, I did see someone behind the fence just recently!  That's the only time either of those things has happened for me and I didn't know what to make of it, but yeah, that's another example.  And thanks for confirming that teleporting happens in Windows too.

jackoverfull wrote:

Also, always in the last level, in the "climb" that you have to do to get to muro if you make someone fall in the void he sometimes returns up after some minutes and start "patrolling" the area.

Hmm!


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#27 14/4/09 12:33

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

I'll have a look in the CHAR sometime. This is a really odd thing to be happening.


Iritscen: roll
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#28 14/4/09 12:58

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

You can make the camera follow the bot, by using chr_focus x, though you wont control yourself. A better solution is to use ai2_showlinetochar = 1.

The kicking thing is an old bug, possibly the AI interfering with controls tongue


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#29 14/4/09 15:37

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Ok, here is the deal. The character walks through the building wall, OVER some quads (floor) that you would normally fall through, and exits the building at the bottom of the stairs. Not to mention the missing pathfinding grid in the center over the  unpassable quads. : /

This is all done by a patrol path that tells it to go to ONE flag.

Its all wrong...


Iritscen: roll
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#30 14/4/09 16:02

jackoverfull
Member
From: San Mauro Torinese, Italy
Registered: 12/1/09
Website

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

So…the question is: "why", right? big_smile


"To the future, blinkin' an eye to the past!"

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#31 14/4/09 16:27

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

The "why" is simply "because Oni is buggy like that" smile  I wish I/we understood it better, but it has something to do with the patrol set for the AI allowing it to do impossible stuff to get to its destination.

By the way, I had also uploaded a second video of the "teleportation" (which we now know is simply the AI walking from point A to point B): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC4HLDekxQI .  If you read the comments you will see the times to listen for, and you will hear the Striker I threw over the edge hitting either multiple floors, or the same floor multiple times.  So that helps paint the picture of what is going on here: AI lands on quads that Konoko cannot stand on, and their patrol script tells them to return to their post, which they do by walking through the walls of the building and coming out where the stairs are.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#32 14/4/09 16:36

jackoverfull
Member
From: San Mauro Torinese, Italy
Registered: 12/1/09
Website

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

but if it is simply a workaround why did they add a way for the ai to walk to the other side instead than simply kill them?

Last edited by jackoverfull (14/4/09 16:36)


"To the future, blinkin' an eye to the past!"

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#33 14/4/09 16:47

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

It's not that they specifically designed this part of the game to work the way it does -- aside from paradox's suggestion that they scripted the AI to stay away from the edge.  Everything else is an accident.  Apparently being on patrol, while not being drawn onscreen (i.e., visible to the player), grants the AI 'nocollision' status, which is why they can walk through the building to get to the stairs.  According to Gumby, looking at them while they're partway through the wall causes them to lose 'nocollision' and fall to their death.  It's a videogame version of quantum physics in action.

Credit for solving the mystery goes to Neo and Gumby.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#34 14/4/09 16:58

jackoverfull
Member
From: San Mauro Torinese, Italy
Registered: 12/1/09
Website

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

OK. Interesting. big_smile


"To the future, blinkin' an eye to the past!"

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#35 14/4/09 17:26

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Ok, here is the deal: there is a (possibly intended) bug in the map that causes two places in the map to be connected where they should not be for the pathfinding. The engine assumes the connection is correct, so it doesn't bother with collisions. Thus, noclip. smile


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
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#36 14/4/09 18:12

Aiko
Member
From: NYC Metro Area
Registered: 18/1/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

EdT hooks me up with scripts. I have no idea how to modify anything.  Yes, I am on a Mac - an older one, not Intel, running OSX.4.

I couldn't believe it when the elevator doors opened up and she strolled right out! I thought she had died since a fall from that tower means death. I like to "bounce" my opponents with the cannon weapon. I don't like to kill directly, rather, make them bounce and fall to their deaths. Adds some flair to the overall kill.  Also, on the same level, in the same area, the bad guy with the screaming cannon - has anyone ever noticed that he disappears because he falls down the elevator shaft and dies there?  I've never seen him go down the elevator nor see the doors open, I just find him down there dead, after the fact.  And quite frequently. lol

I have more behaviours to post but I want to upload pics to show what's going on and see if anyone else notices this or experiences it as well. And right now, Aiko has a painful back spasm.  Aiko is probably your resident senior citizen here at age 42.  I took some vicodan and will sit down now while it kicks in. big_smile:D:D I'll be back. Take care all!


Aiko

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#37 14/4/09 22:36

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Interesting, I haven't seen that Striker die in the elevator shaft, and I never got the Fury to come out of the other elevator either.  I have observed that if you stand inside the elevator (you can get in there with chr_nocollision), the doors open automatically for you.  So if the Fury fell down only to the level of the elevator car, and then walked into it (using the no-clip "feature" that Oni seems to allow them to use) to get to her patrol path, she could exit the car as if she'd actually taken the elevator up.  I'm not saying that's what definitely happened, I'm just inferring it based off what we learned today about the other teleporting AIs at SP3.

If you're going to try to record what you're seeing, video might be better than pics (unless you're sure you can capture the series of events in still shots, which sounds hard to do).  Can you do video?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#38 15/4/09 10:29

Aiko
Member
From: NYC Metro Area
Registered: 18/1/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

How do I do video? I am really not that sophisticated with these things.  I'll try to get her to do it again though.  How do I do video?  I do have a youtube account, so I can upload there.

Ok, the other behaviour I have noticed is on the last level, the Mountain Syndicate.  When you first arrive, what I usually do is lure all the bad guys who are outside, into the building into the main area. Then I like to put on the "fists of legend" cheat and punch and kick them all off the edge. Some will die but many will survive.

mountaintunnel.jpg
By linda_san at 2009-04-15

The survivors, no matter where they originally started in the game, will walk  up the left side tunnel and hang out behind the door. Then, like magic, they go through the door. The doors don't open, they just somehow will go through the door and then walk back to their original position of the game. I hope my images work. See them walking single file up the ramp? Then waiting?


Aiko

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#39 15/4/09 10:46

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

More patrol path sillyness, I think.


Iritscen: roll
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Gumby: i know
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#40 15/4/09 11:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Wow, intriguing pics.  I didn't know if you could get a clear sequence of events with screenshots, but that worked out well.  I do think that Gumby is right and we are seeing another manifestation of the same ghosts-on-patrol bug.  So thanks for the pics, I think that's all we need to document it after all. big_smile

Just to answer your question, though, if you are ever interested in capturing video, I don't think there are any free options.  There's the cheaper shareware like ScreenRecord and xGrab (you'll find them on sites like versiontracker.com).  I use Snapz Pro X w/ video capture, which is $70, but it's the only program that really meets my needs.

There's also Oni's own version of a video capture feature, which is the frame dump hotkey (Ctrl+shift+l while in Dev Mode).  However, it saves a bitmap for each frame.  This leads to a space demand of ((pixels * 3) * 60) bytes a second.  So if you run Oni in 640x480, you have 307,200 pixels in the screen.  307200 * 3 * 60 equals 921600 bytes per frame.  Oni slows down so it can capture around 60fps, meaning the HD usage is ~53MB/s.  Capturing 5 minutes of footage would require 15.8GB of free space.  Yikes.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#41 15/4/09 12:01

Aiko
Member
From: NYC Metro Area
Registered: 18/1/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Does anyone force characters to play outside the area what they normally would do?   For the Bio-Science level, I forced Barabas outside by using the Phase Stream Projector and hurling him over the fence. There, he followed me to the end of the game and also back inside and into the acid vat. Fun!

followmebarabas.jpg
By linda_san at 2009-04-15


Aiko

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#42 15/4/09 12:06

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

You did that with the PSP? O_o


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#43 15/4/09 12:19

Aiko
Member
From: NYC Metro Area
Registered: 18/1/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Yes, that lightning bolt weapon makes your opponents quite projectile.  lol:lol::lol::lol:  Barabas will definitely go over the fence.  I've projected the mercury bow snipers out of their towers on the Syndicate Mountain level so that they can join the fun below with the others. No one is left behind when I play!  cool


Aiko

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#44 15/4/09 13:08

jackoverfull
Member
From: San Mauro Torinese, Italy
Registered: 12/1/09
Website

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Iritscen wrote:

Just to answer your question, though, if you are ever interested in capturing video, I don't think there are any free options.  There's the cheaper shareware like ScreenRecord and xGrab (you'll find them on sites like versiontracker.com).  I use Snapz Pro X w/ video capture, which is $70, but it's the only program that really meets my needs.

You can also use VLC to "transcode screen://"). I tried just now, it garbles a bit and is a bit sluggish, but it works.

Aiko wrote:

Does anyone force characters to play outside the area what they normally would do?   For the Bio-Science level, I forced Barabas outside by using the Phase Stream Projector and hurling him over the fence. There, he followed me to the end of the game and also back inside and into the acid vat. Fun!

A couple of weeks ago mukade rematerialized outside the "arena", on the roof that you can see on the other side of the grid. Didn't know how to follow him (oni hasn't a "noclip" cheat, right?:/).


"To the future, blinkin' an eye to the past!"

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#45 15/4/09 13:21

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Aiko wrote:

Does anyone force characters to play outside the area what they normally would do?   For the Bio-Science level, I forced Barabas outside by using the Phase Stream Projector and hurling him over the fence. There, he followed me to the end of the game and also back inside and into the acid vat. Fun!

Ha, wow.  The only things I've done are fight Barabus inside TCTF HQ and lure Mukade outside the rooftop you fight him on by dropping down to a nearby roof.  I didn't take video of the latter because, while he can teleport out there, he doesn't know how to move around and fight, so it's pretty uneventful.

jackoverfull wrote:

oni hasn't a "noclip" cheat, right?

Oni certainly does smile  Type "chr_nocollision 0 1" on the console to allow Konoko to run through walls and such.  Just don't jump, or you'll die.  Konoko will be able to run through the wall/fence around the rooftop, but she'll stay at that altitude, in mid-air, until you turn the clipping back on with "chr_nocollision 0 0".  However, my preferred method was to use "p3_everythingbreakable=1" and shoot a part of the wall down, then jump down onto the rooftops out there.

Oh, and interesting tip about VLC, Jack, I will have to try that.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#46 15/4/09 13:41

Aiko
Member
From: NYC Metro Area
Registered: 18/1/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Yes, I've been able to force Mukade to follow me out onto the roof tops but not far. He does try to materialize/teleport to other locations but it is not successful. One fun glitch is when he teleports into midair and you can shoot him. See pics:
mukadefight.jpg
mukademidair.jpg
airmukade.jpg


Aiko

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#47 15/4/09 13:46

Aiko
Member
From: NYC Metro Area
Registered: 18/1/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Iritscen wrote:

Ha, wow.  The only things I've done are fight Barabus inside TCTF HQ and lure Mukade outside the rooftop you fight him on by dropping down to a nearby roof.  I didn't take video of the latter because, while he can teleport out there, he doesn't know how to move around and fight, so it's pretty uneventful.

Oh, with this scene. If you open the door that you came up from, Barabas will follow you in and down all the stairs into the TCTF building. You can kill him by pushing him into the elevator shaft or get him out on the ledge and kick him off. Either way, he will follow you into the building and down the stairs.


Aiko

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#48 15/4/09 16:41

jackoverfull
Member
From: San Mauro Torinese, Italy
Registered: 12/1/09
Website

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

Iritscen wrote:

Oni certainly does smile  Type "chr_nocollision 0 1" on the console to allow Konoko to run through walls and such.  Just don't jump, or you'll die.  Konoko will be able to run through the wall/fence around the rooftop, but she'll stay at that altitude, in mid-air, until you turn the clipping back on with "chr_nocollision 0 0".  However, my preferred method was to use "p3_everythingbreakable=1" and shoot a part of the wall down, then jump down onto the rooftops out there.

Thanks. smile


"To the future, blinkin' an eye to the past!"

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#49 15/4/09 16:45

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Character behaviour - notice anything strange?

I prefer going into mancam mode.
Press enter twice, use 8 to go forward, steer with mouse, then press End to teleport.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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