See, anyone wants to add new moves to Barabas?

love_Oni · 08/17/08 05:08

Yes, I think I should add some new moves to Barabas because he doesn't have as many moves as other characters, especially throwing moves. I think I should improve his combat techniques, too. I'm trying to do those things. If you have any suggestions please tell me. These are the things I'm going to do:

1 - Adding new moves:
- Tanker's throw-forward-kick (triple butt-kick)
- Konoko's running-throw-forward-kick (excuse me because I'm hardly to find names for moves )
- Fury's throw-back-kick (maybe, not sure)
- Replace "Elicom's comb_k" move by "Strcom's comb_k" move because his first kick looks not very effective - it can only damage from the short distance (You can try the combo testing script in the attachment)
- Maybe some other moves...

2 - Adding new techniques:
- Punch > Kick-forward > Punch-low
- Punch > punch-forward (for lightning speed throw)
- Punch > kick > kick > kick (maybe, not sure)
- Punch > punch > punch-heavy (maybe, not sure)
- Triple butt-kick > Punch-forward
- Crouch-kick-forward (not sure)
- Many other...

What do you think?

Last edited by love_Oni (08/17/08 07:08)

gmsly · 08/17/08 05:08

Interesting

love_Oni · 08/17/08 06:08

Thank you.

Oh, I forgot to add somethings new. Please use this script, put it in the edition 'manplant' folder. I added the new throw, twister kicks, willow kick...

Note that the combo: 'Punch > crouch-punch > crouch-kick' or 'Punch > punch-low > kick-low' works very effective on the striker.

Last edited by love_Oni (08/17/08 06:08)

gmsly · 08/17/08 06:08

"chr_set_class" command no can do for Mac

love_Oni · 08/17/08 09:08

If that command didn't work on Mac, you can manually shapeshift to him.

I'm in a divided mind as to replace 'Elite's comb_k' move by 'Striker's comb_k' move, or by 'SWAT's comb_k' move. Both of them work fine and look cool.

Gumby · 08/17/08 14:08

Barabus has just as many moves as Elites do...

love_Oni · 08/17/08 19:08

I think someone who likes Elite Strikers will say: "... but Elites doesn't have as many moves as Konoko (or Furies)... " . I'm not really a fan of Elite Strikers but Barabus is a boss, isn't he? So what's the problem if we make a boss becomes tougher, like the new Brutal Konoko?

Last edited by love_Oni (08/17/08 19:08)

EdT · 08/18/08 00:08

love_Oni: Sorry I haven't had time to try out your new moves for Barabus.

Have you thought of adding the new moves through Barabus' TRAC file using .xml? Since Barabus uses the Elite's TRAC, you could duplicate that file, change its name so that only Barabus would use it. Then replace some of the moves with those from other characters. This is what I did with Motoko.

After that's done, then you could modify the melee profile file and make a Brutal Barabus version!

love_Oni · 08/18/08 01:08

I thought that so. But... I have already added new moves in Elite's TRAC file. But if I only modify Barabus's melee profile, so only him who can uses the new moves, not Elites, right?

Loser · 08/18/08 05:08

Love_Oni:

What do you think?

THAT you like to read my mind ^_^.

No, seriously, you have nice ideas but...we need NEW animations. And if we don't have new animations, do not over-recycle old ones or do not mix anims which do not look good. See:

Tanker's 3 knees throw is sooo over-recycled.

Fury's back kick throw does not look like it is performed by tough 200 lb guy.

Konoko's run kick throw does not look like it is performed by tough 200 lb guy.

Elite's first kick from his combo (knee) will be VERY useful in edition. You can try out. D/L my work and do this knee to some striker.

Adding new techniques: You know how to change bonetracks in order to make it look good enough for EDITION release?

Loser

P.S.:I am sorry that I am writing such strong words, but everybody, wake up. Yes, we have possibility to export/import things into Oni now. But we don't have TOOLS !!! So think in intentions of your possibilities, never be OK with simple claim that "it will be good somehow". NO. Either you KNOW how to do it, then do it, or you only WISH it should be done that way. If that, than write that you only wish, don't write "I have a great idea. Let's make project *insert*." And then you come to conclusion that you cannot accomplish it. I wish a lot of things, too. But I don't think it is good to make a thread about "making better combat system". Useless thread that would be as we cannot do a thing with engine so far.

So for your case, Love_Oni:

1) Nice idea. No doubt that Barabus needs tweaking in order to be BOSS, not just boss.

2) You have written only wishlist so far. Nothing bad. I know, you made a script. That is more polished form of wishlist. Now what? You have written that you plan to "add some new moves".
Do you have idea how to accomplish your goals? Do you know how to make those TRAM looks good? How to make them smoothly interpolate one into another? NO, simple claim "it will be good somehow" is not enough.

3) I know, I did a thing similar to yours. I also adopted a few moves from other TRACs. But note that those moves are not overused + they are not tweaked yet (no bonetrack tweak). And I won't dare to make combo attacks from these moves. It WON'T look good without proper bonetrack tweaking and I know it. I don't have TOOLs and I know it. So I will not make combo attacks now. Now I will use all my knowledge to adjust those adopted single moves (punch_heavy, punch_forward). That will be work for at last two days, and I will be adjusting just legs because they look horribly when interpolating from STRiker's animation (punch_forward) to ELIte's animation (idle stance). And you want to make combo attacks (tweaking whole body not just legs) and adopt about 10+ animations? Think about it.

4) If we had TOOLs I would be working on it with you and with joy because idea itself is BRILLIANT.

Last edited by Loser (08/18/08 06:08)

love_Oni · 08/18/08 07:08

Ok, all the things you said had no wrong. But I think you just misunderstand me. I just don't want to make anything intricate, I just want to make it simple.

"Adding new moves to Barabas... ": I mean, I will add other characters' moves to Barabas, but is not making any new moves other than in Oni (of course, I can't do that). The combo in the script is just made by me for some fun. When making the new script to test some moves I'm going to add, I forgot to delete the old functions so I already have comment it "#". But looks like you have deleted the "#" characters and try out my new combo . I'm not going to make a combo like that.

Actually, I added the new moves in Elite's TRAC file, but because there are some problems to perform twister kicks by Barabas, so I haven't any ideas to fix that. I only add Konoko's run-left (right) animations to temporary make it easier to perform, which that isn't very perfectly.

if we don't have new animations, do not over-recycle old ones or do not mix anims which do not look good. See:
Tanker's 3 knees throw is sooo over-recycled.
Fury's back kick throw does not look like it is performed by tough 200 lb guy.
Konoko's run kick throw does not look like it is performed by tough 200 lb guy.

So, how can a 200 lb guy dashing like a petite girl, such as Konoko or Fury? ^_^

I'll be careful to add those moves in the Barabus's melee profile. If there are moves which aren't suitable for him, you can play or ignore it if you want.

Elite's first kick from his combo (knee) will be VERY useful in edition. You can try out. D/L my work and do this knee to some striker.

Ok, I think it again. Eilte's first kick from his combo probably is hard to be blocked. But it could only cause damage from a short distance. Anyway, I will keep it in Barabas' TRAC file.

This is my Barabas's TRAC file. Put it in the level0 folder and recombine. Remember to make a backup of the original, because the moving animations isn't very perfectly yet.

(Editing the Melee profile isn't an easy work. I'll try to learn it soon)

P.S: What is the file "Barabus_jetpack.rar" in your last post used for?

Last edited by love_Oni (08/18/08 08:08)

Loser · 08/18/08 11:08

It contains my attempt to modify Barabus's TRAC. Put all files to level0, recombine, play.

Gumby · 08/18/08 11:08

Love_Oni, you missed the point of Loser's post. He is saying that moves spilced from other characters is bad because:

1. It looks bad

2. Stealing moves from other characters is just "poor mans modding" (as geyser would put it, I think) and isn't the way to go.

Also, you obviously have never watched American football. 200 lb guys can be FAST.

Iritscen · 08/19/08 10:08

(Completely trivial point:) I figured Barabus without his armor would have to be 250 at least. With the armor, he's maybe 300lbs. I always thought that Konoko should not be able to use certain moves when fighting such a large opponent, like her running throw using her legs. She could automatically use another move instead, maybe a jump-kick (easy to script such a substitution).

On the subject of TOOLS (as Loser writes it :-), it doesn't seem like animations can be worked on in XML format, not if you're making something entirely new. You really need a 3D tool, don't you? I guess the question is, Is there a 3D app that does animation that can be used to generate the numbers that can go into a TRAC(TRAM?)? I don't know much about 3D animation, but I would think that OniSplit could be programmed to take animation coordinates from such an app and make them into numbers that Oni can use. Not that it would be easy, by any means. The only other option is building our own tool from scratch, which is probably even harder.

Gumby · 08/19/08 11:08

All if the animation data in Oni came from an animation editor at one point in time. Patience, the time will come soon enough, I'm sure.

gzl5000 · 08/19/08 15:08

Iritscen wrote:

(Completely trivial point:) I figured Barabus without his armor would have to be 250 at least. With the armor, he's maybe 300lbs. I always thought that Konoko should not be able to use certain moves when fighting such a large opponent, like her running throw using her legs. She could automatically use another move instead, maybe a jump-kick (easy to script such a substitution).
On the subject of TOOLS (as Loser writes it :-), it doesn't seem like animations can be worked on in XML format, not if you're making something entirely new. You really need a 3D tool, don't you? I guess the question is, Is there a 3D app that does animation that can be used to generate the numbers that can go into a TRAC(TRAM?)? I don't know much about 3D animation, but I would think that OniSplit could be programmed to take animation coordinates from such an app and make them into numbers that Oni can use. Not that it would be easy, by any means. The only other option is building our own tool from scratch, which is probably even harder.

Not to be picky...but Barabas is huge. He's got to be at least 300 without armor, 350 with. How else could he do that earthquake move effectively?

Gumby · 08/19/08 16:08

something in his suit?

Iritscen · 08/19/08 17:08

Or Daodan powers. That's supposing, of course, that he has a Chrysalis.

I know you made that comment about doing the earthquake move tongue in cheek, anyway, gzl, but yeah, your weight estimate could be right.

love_Oni · 08/19/08 21:08

So looks like the only thing I can improve is Barabus's melee profile. I'll want to discuss this thing later because I'll need to have times to understand it.

@Loser: In your .rar file there are files which are named:

"TRAMBARABjump_lt_kick.oni"
"TRAMBARABjump_lt_punch.oni"
"TRAMBARABjump_rt_kick.oni"
"TRAMBARABjump_rt_punch.oni"

But when I tried to jump left (right) and press punch (kick), I only saw Barabas performed moves which look like his 'jump-forward-punch (kick)' move, not different when I jump forward and press punch (kick). What's wrong?

*This is my last Barabus's TRAC modify file (maybe). I removed some Konoko's animations in it and changed my old throw moves to other throw moves for more (maybe) suitable. Put all the files in level0 folder and recombine.

Last edited by love_Oni (08/20/08 04:08)

Your_Mom · 08/20/08 00:08

Hey, awesome! This is going to make Barabas more unique as a boss!
You plan on doing this with Mukade? Plain ninja doesn't quite do him justice...though I can't think of moves that would fit him better.

Gumby · 08/20/08 00:08

He gets a ninjagun and a teleporter...:D (even though you cant really use them )

love_Oni · 08/20/08 05:08

Hey, I want discuss with you about this thing. After putting all the Barabas's TRAM files that Loser made, I saw his jump-forward-punch (kick) move has jetpack for Barabas, which is nice. But if we compare it with the original one, we can see the differents:

- Loser's jump-forward-punch and kick moves have jetpack, but the jumping-punch doesn't cause block-stunned and the jumping-kick doesn't cause block-stagger.

-The original jump-forward-punch and kick moves don't have jetpack, but his jumping-punch does cause block-stunned and jumping-kick does cause block-stagger.

This block-stunned and block-stagger can make Barabas's moves become more special. Because when you're controlling Barabas, if you perform a jump-forward-punch (or kick) move on your opponent, your opponent will have block-stunned (or block-stagger), and the block-stunned (or block-stagger) times is long enough for Barabas to perform a running throw move (please try!). That could make a great combo.

So I asked Loser how did you modify the original TRAM files, and we can recombine those two effects to make great moves.

*Loser's files: http://loser.oni2.net/Junkyard/Barabus_jetpack.rar
*The original files: in the attachment

Last edited by love_Oni (09/20/08 08:09)

Loser · 08/20/08 09:08

Love_Oni,
I forgot to write one really important notice. That it is ALPHA stuff ^_^. So yes, it will be probaly bugged.

About that staggering: I put this project aside and if you going to work with me on TRAM modding, you will do so. First we need to change what is already present, then we can toy with new stuff. So yes, there ARE bugs (it is in ALPHA stage). Yes, there is no stun/stagger on jumping moves (I don't care about it yet).

Loser

P.S.: I got part time job in order to be able to pay rent for flat (yes, I found a flat near university which I am going to study at). Due to this, I have night-shifts so I am quite tired during day. Please excuse massive slowdown of my work.

Iritscen · 08/20/08 13:08

They don't have a dorm to live in on campus, Loser? (Although I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to share a dorm room.)

Gumby wrote:

He gets a ninjagun and a teleporter... (even though you cant really use them)

Wouldn't that be awesome, though, if we modded him so we could use those abilities? Modding a move to activate the Devilstar should be easy... but how to control teleportation? I would say the best we could do currently is have a move that makes Mukade spin and vanish (set him to be cloaked), activate 'carousel' and script him to be immediately forgotten by enemies, and allow him to move to a new spot (yes, by running there). After a certain amount of time (or when he performs the move for the teleportation again) we undo all those effects (invisibility, carousel, etc.) and he's in a new place, instantly as far as the AI can tell.

love_Oni · 08/20/08 21:08

I think Mukade's battle tactic enough, the only thing we would improve to him maybe that teleporting move .

I think we'll make him play the teleport animation after he did a backward dodge. The rest (invisible, 'carousel') we'll make by script.

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#1 08/17/08 05:08

See, anyone wants to add new moves to Barabas?

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