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#1 23/7/08 3:18

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Anniversary Edition trailer

It has been suggested by a secret source (starts with a "G") that we start work on a trailer for AE.

"we have to decide what we can showcase, then set up the needed sequences (scripts and binaries), shoot and release"

So. Who wants to make it and who has good ideas?


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#2 23/7/08 8:56

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Hi,
I cannot make it (I don't have better video editor than Windows Movie Maker) but I can help. My suggestions:
Music from first Oni trailer. Nostalgia ^_^
ONI style font for messages (a few members of forum have it, I don't). Blue with orange edges should be good.

1) At the beginning trailer starts and message slowly appears over video "Maybe you remember this game...". Fades after 5 secs and new message appears "It was decent mix of hand to hand combat and gunplay...". Fades after 5 secs, too. then no text till 30th second. Behind these messages, video shows various clips from vanilla ONI, mainly bugs and glitches that were fixed in edition (no gunfire dodging, low-res textures closeups, silly MELE AI, bunch of cheap backbreakers, special spamming, fully invulnerable throws, AI ignoring you touching it from behind, AI ignoring dead allies etc). This lasts to about 28th second.
Point is that it should draw attention as lots of people remember MAINLY bugs and other negative things when it comes to this game.

2)From 28th second, where music kicks off - Screen is "glass shatered", message "But now, ONI is back!" appears and fades after 3 seconds. Behind, video shows some fernetic action (mixture of guns/h2h), could be from Oni team arena script, powered by Anniversary edition. After about 5-6 secs, video fluently transits (or other non-violent way of change) . Message "Better gunplay" appears for 3 secs over video. Behind, clips should show gunfire dodging. First w1/w2, then w3, w7 and w9. Each gun used in different location and different level. Enemies are armed as well, they backfire and reload as they are dodging. That should force people to think: "Hey, nothing great but wait...I didn't know THIS was in that game!" This gun part last for about 15 secs.

3) around 48th - 49th second video transits again, massage "More action" appears, fades again after 3 secs. Clips show various h2h situations such as wall smashes, knockdowns through glass, semi-vulnerable throws, semi-vulnerable specials, regenerating enemies etc. 20 seconds. This part demonstrates better AI2 MELE abilities as well as improved combat system.

4) around 1:10 : transition, message "Better visuals". Clips show level shots (try to pick up the most complex you can ^_^) with better textures (256x256, 32 bit), adding TXANs to some textures will make environment more "live". Showing some new particle effect usage, such as dust randomly falling from ceiling in warehouse or close huge lightnings in Rooftops level, one randomly hits some char. Cases which are left on ground, destroyed (I mean black marks after explosion) environment  New, detailed character/object models, if possible.
25 seconds

5) around 1:35 : transition, massage "Smarter enemies". Clips showing AI2 see dead ally and is alerted, AI2 which notices if you touch it, AI2 runs for alarm if it is far enough from you (you fight with it, it knockdowns you and runs for alarm) etc.
15 secs.

6) 1:50, music makes 4 "hits" here. In each hit, we put one word of message "ONI IS BACK!". On 4th music "hit", which transits into final melody, messages "COMING SOON" and under it small "Oni central forum" are witten and then slowly fade away. Under each of these words, there is very short clip of ONI char shooting w1_tap. First Striker, then TCTF, then Muro. 4th music hit is Konoko's daodan spike. This last clip fades as music fades. THE END
                                                 
                                                                          Loser

Last edited by Loser (23/7/08 9:00)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#3 23/7/08 10:59

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

I was thinking about this a while back, and I was imagining, rather than putting any text onscreen over the video (that's fine for informal videos, but it's bad style for serious vids), letting the footage speak for itself.  One way to do this is by copying the style of Bungie's trailer.  A minimal amount of text (in Oni font if possible), which flashes offscreen, followed by short bits of video.  More text, flashes off, more video.  The difference would be, we are going to show before and after footage.

So, for instance:
"Improved AI" - Then you show a few seconds of, say, the AI2 charging you dumbly in the parking lot in the beginning of Chapter 6 while Konoko hits him with an SMG, then use a wipe transition to the same setup, but now AI2 ducks behind a pillar or other obstacle to avoid your fire.
"Improved Combat" - Here we'd show one of the AIs that was noticeably improved (but not Ninja Comguys :-), first in his original form, then in his smarter form.  Maybe Brutal Konoko.  About ten seconds of footage for each, enough to let us see that the new AI dodges better, uses more moves, whatever.  Then show AI2 getting hit into window, nothing happening, then wipe to same exact setup where now he shatters the glass as he hits it, and maybe the shards kill him.
"New Gameplay" - Show the OTA script in full effect.
"HD Content" - Wipe between shots of old textures and improved textures*.  Fade between old, blocky character model and nice new smooth one*.
"New Weapons" - Some footage of maybe the chaingun or whatever might be in the Edition*.
"New Characters" - Quick shots of new characters* (BGI, or bonus characters like MC or Motoko), shown a la the original Oni trailer, where the camera slowly zooms in on them.

Then some final text, on straight black BG, gives the date (maybe just month) of release, or even just says "Oni (next line) Seventh Anniversary Edition (next line) Summer 2008", then the next screen adds "New content to arrive in following months (next line) Watch oni.bungie.org & wiki.oni2.net" or something to that effect.

I do have Final Cut Express and a good deal of editing experience.  If I were to composite the thing, I would need help getting some of the footage.  Also, I also thought we should use different trailer music than the original trailer, to emphasize that this is a fresh approach to an old game.  We could use something lesser-known from the Oni soundtrack.  I'm not sure I've heard all the music used in the Oni trailers.  The one I am familiar with is the one from 1999 that used "Konoko Chase".  For the body of the trailer, might I instead suggest using "Trailer" or "Pursuit".

Also, we can open with some text that explains the Bungie released one last game before Halo that has largely been forgotten, that combined innovative hand-to-hand combat and gunplay.  This intro can be about 30 seconds and shows on black with music in the background: either an excerpt of 30 seconds from the time range of 2:50-4:30 in the Ambient Suite, or part of The Hunt, which is some great somber music that I can't recall hearing anywhere in the game.  Try imagining that text, on black, while listening to one of those scores, and it's pretty powerful.  Then we rev things up with Trailer or Pursuit while showing the before & after action clips.

*See my next post for these subjects.


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#4 23/7/08 11:19

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

*Okay, here's the footnote to my previous post.

I am not totally clear on the planned feature-set of the Edition.  We are eventually going to introduce new weapons, new characters, maybe new moves/animations, and hopefully HD textures/models, but those aren't done yet and some may or may not be officially part of the Edition but will rather be 3rd party mods that use the Edition framework.  If something isn't immediately (or ever) going to be part of the official Edition release, should we still show it?  I suggest that the answer is yes.  Also, Loser suggested a number of specific things, some of which I wasn't sure we could show yet, such as "some new particle effect usage, such as dust randomly falling from ceiling in warehouse or close huge lightnings in Rooftops level, one randomly hits some char." and "AI2 see dead ally and is alerted" and "AI2 runs for alarm if it is far enough from you".  Do we have those ready to demo, Loser?

Also, my own post also mentioned some things I am not sure are ready ^_^'.  Here's the things I marked in my last post:
HD textures - We haven't really done these yet!  We could certainly do a mock-up, where we re-do just the textures that appear in a certain spot, like a wall with a console, or a character's face (like coool's new Konoko face), then shoot footage of just that spot, before and after.  This is maybe a little dishonest, but it's what game developers do all the time when releasing trailers.  If we know it's coming eventually, this is the only way we can have something to show in a trailer at this time.
HD character models - There are only two things I am aware of that can be shown at this time: geyser's quick HD take on Griffin, and my more complex HD take on Griffin.  My model has texturing issues, and frankly it's hard to appreciate the higher detail without making a totally new TXMP for the face, at 256x256.  So maybe we can show geyser's model in-game, then some wireframe/shaded shots of my model in Blender being worked on, to give a feeling of something fancy being in the works.  Again, this comes back to the question of, "What will actually be part of the Edition?", since geyser feels that my Griffin has too many polys.  I will be producing a simpler version, but it's not ready yet and in any case will probably still need a new TXMP.
New weapons - Not sure which ones to show here because I don't know what geyser is planning to include.  But again, "not officially included with the Edition" doesn't have to mean "can't be in the trailer".  Any mod that uses the Edition to integrate with Oni is fair game for the trailer, I think.  So, the chaingun or anything else we can show should be here, right?
New characters - Not sure if geyser's BGI characters are ready for showtime, but there's a great-looking Master Chief playable as a "bonus" character.  There's also Motoko.  We have EdT's initial mashup version (taking existing features to make a Motoko-like model), and a HD version I have been slowly perfecting.  It's pretty sweet-looking at the poly level, but it has texturing and import issues.  Again, it could be shown in-progress within Blender if we wanted to show it at all.

Re the issues with my own HD content such as HD Griffin and Motoko, some of these could likely be fixed in time for the trailer with the assistance of a few other members.  Also, if someone tells me they want to see a certain thing I was going to work on, like an HD Konoko or improved/HD Muro, I could do a quick mock-up that might be good enough for the trailer, so with a little advance notice I might be able to produce something new for the trailer.  However, I don't want to sound like I'm pushing my own work to be in the trailer.  It's just that I can't think of what else we'd show if we promised HD characters.  Or, we could leave that promise out of the trailer.  But I wanted to just throw out there what I've done so you all are aware of it.

As with all of us, I think, my plans at this time for modding Oni are going to require a lot more actual work to be done, which is why it's hard to make a comprehensive trailer.  But hey, as long as it teases people and gets them interested in the project, that's the most important thing.  Even if we promise a thing in the trailer and it isn't included with the Edition, we'd be no worse than Bungie West, right? ;-)


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#5 23/7/08 12:25

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Well, we can take a lesson from Bungie... show a lot of cool stuff that never gets into the game! tongue j/k

One thing to remember, the trailer will be posted on YouTube and as ItemfinderDeluxe suggests on other sites, so the quality of the video may not show the HD content clearly. So I don't think we have to spend a lot of time on that for the video.  However, in the future HD content can be shown as screenshots on the wiki, where you can do a before and after.

Since the scenes are going to be quick, we should use things that will stand out as clearly different and have a WOW factor.

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#6 23/7/08 12:56

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Yeah, that's true, Ed, and I completely failed to think of that.  The difference between HD textures and normal will not be discernable once YouTube's lousy compression is applied to it, and the models that have been HD-ified will also not show up as well as they will in-game.  So, yeah, let's focus on gameplay differences.  I think there should be plenty of breaking glass, for instance :-)


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#7 23/7/08 13:14

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

I think we should still include the modified characters, Griffin (either geyser's or Iritscen's), Muro (coool's) and any others we can come up with in the near future, also different skins for the current characters, just as a teaser. Let's see if any sharp eyed fans will notice the difference.

Iritscen: I'm curious to see the HD Motoko!

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#8 23/7/08 16:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Once again I agree with you, Ed, it's a good idea to still use the HD content when we can.  As you also were saying, it would be anticlimactic if we said outright, "Look, better models/textures!" and then in the little video you couldn't even tell.  So we'll slip them in when we can and see who catches the changes.  Also, we really need to show coool's black Mukade outfits for Konoko and maybe Muro.

You're probably wondering why I didn't tell you about HD Motoko, but the reason is that (a) her face is 98% done, but I also wanted to bring her body (mainly what she's wearing, not her actual figure) into line with Motoko's GitS:SAC outfiit, and that work didn't start yet, and (b) I had some real import problems that I guess I did tell you about, but that haven't been resolved.  Last time I imported her, she was sideways :-)  I knew what the problem was but couldn't fix it.  Anyway, I won't gum up this thread with that issue, we can discuss it elsewhere.  I'll upload some pics of HD Motoko to the wiki like I did with Griffin, when I find some time soon.  Frankly, I'm a little embarrassed at the time I spent on her, because I should have been working on Konoko or someone else.  I think I should come back to Motoko after working with Oni's main characters.


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#9 23/7/08 17:58

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Iritscen, I hope in the final version of Griffin his ears won't be so detailed...>_> I was looking at the picture, and it was more detail than anyone can see...


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#10 23/7/08 18:00

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Also, I won't be able to do any recording. This computer sucks too much, and my computer at home has integratd video. When I go back home and get a job, things will be different. -_-


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#11 23/7/08 18:29

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Too bad, Gumby.  But I'm sure Loser can do a lot of recording.  Even with just his help we could assemble a good trailer.  I will start some prelim work tonight and post what I have some time soon, just to give you all an idea of what I would do with the trailer.

P.S.: Re the ears, yeah, there's a decent amount of detail because I hate seeing straight lines on models where there should be curves, and the "ear-plates" on the existing models bug me to no end.  But as I mentioned, there will be a low-poly version of my Griffin that comes out at some point.  That will satisfy anyone who is concerned about performance with the higher detail model.  It's easy to produce, I just have to sit down and do it.


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#12 23/7/08 21:27

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Iritscen: Since you are having issues with Blender, have you thought of trying XSI Mod Tool? http://www.softimage.com/products/modtool/

You could run it under Parallels or Fusion.  Just a thought.

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#13 23/7/08 22:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Hmm, it seems to do Collada... will have to check it out.

In the meantime... WHOOSH.  A caffeine-and-pizza-fueled rough mockup of the trailer I would make.  Don't get too excited, there's no actual footage in there yet.  You'll notice me playing with the filters that some of the text had in the original 1999 trailer.  Close, but not quite 100% right, and not there at all in some cases (but easily added when I have more time).  Also, the lower-case 1999-trailer-style text could use a background to make it more interesting.  If I can do something like the original trailer background (the scrolling kanji), it would be very cool.  Finally, the font I used is the closest on my computer to the Oni trailer font, but if someone has a closer font for me to use, I'm all ears.

The placeholder text only gives examples of improvements, and leaves out some things like Loser's recent AI-notices-when-you-touch-their-butt advancement smile, which we definitely want to put in the trailer.  The text is simply giving examples of things to show.  OK, now I need to go to bed.  Buenos noches.

P.S.: The YouTube compression made the font blurry even when it's supposed to be sharp, so that's something I will try to find a solution to.


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#14 23/7/08 22:26

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Solution: when you output your final product, have it be in the same resolution as Youtube wants it. smile


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#15 23/7/08 23:49

ItemfinderDeluxe
Member
From: Canberra, Australia
Registered: 12/11/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Just took a look at the trailer, and it's a good solid plan. How long are you aiming to make it?

Maybe as a suggestion for the before and after comparisons, for example, with the running section. Show the footage of the 'before' running, then 'break' the image to show the footage of the 7AE movement (or use some other sort of effect). Also, I don't think there would be a need to name every script, skin change, new character and such in the trailer. If we can reduce the words on screen, we can put more emphasis on the action and capabilities of 7AE. For some of the stuff like the BGI guys, you could use "New Characters" as a heading of sorts

Oh, and "Konoko... meet Brutal Konoko." Dream Lab would be the best level to show off the new AI, since it has the most "difficult" enemies.


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#16 24/7/08 9:05

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

The trailer runs for roughly the length that I thought I would need to show all the clips I had in mind.  If it runs any longer than that, I will have to find a way to extend the music, because it basically runs through all of "Pursuit" through to its end.  So let's say that the trailer will be 2:15 and hope I can fit everything in there.

And keep in mind, the placeholder text will be replaced by straight video; so there won't be text that names each mod that's being shown.  My goal is as little narration as possible (after the intro), just showing the differences visually.

And I agree, the Dream Lab is a good place to show the boosted AI.

Oh, and Gumby, I did in fact export the video as 480x360, which is YouTube's native size.  It's sharper on my computer.  Oh well, it's not the font I'll be using, anyway.


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#17 24/7/08 12:30

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Okay, this is the post where I outline the video I need to have recorded.  I can indeed record footage myself, but I would really appreciate the help, because just the editing is time-consuming (currently trying to recreate the scrolling kanji in the background) so whenever I can just drop in some video that someone else supplied, it's great.  If I do record something myself, or someone else records it, I will scratch it off the list.  Many thanks in advance to whoever can help!

The video needs to be:
- 640x480, no more, no less
- 15fps
- As high-quality as possible; this means no MPEG compression; I suggest Sorenson, at its highest setting; if you don't see that as an option, let me know; I understand that Fraps saves large uncompressed AVIs; if they are only a few hundred megs and you have a fast connection, then go ahead and upload them as-is
- Sound is not needed and will probably not be used
- Please, please, please try to have no watermarks ("Fraps", etc.) in the frame, it will really hurt the trailer
- Clips should be short

Footage needed:
See http://wiki.oni2.net/AE:Trailer for the new list.  Thanks.

Ways to send me the footage:
- putting it on your personal web page, if you have one
- uploading to sendspace.com or your file-transfer site of choice
- no site that will compress the video that you upload, e.g. YouTube, Photobucket, or other video-sharing sites

Last edited by Iritscen (2/8/08 7:51)


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#18 24/7/08 13:16

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

What about KvW footage? tongue  I still can't help you though. Let me think...

I have
http://gumby.oni2.net/Videos/AA.wmv - Footage of an "HD" wall texture and how much nicer it looks with AF
http://gumby.oni2.net/Videos/DeathRay.wmv - Deathray footage ^_^ You probably don't want it though tongue


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#19 24/7/08 13:44

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

KvW?  I'm drawing a blank....

While using AF to render nice HD textures is an important accomplishment, I don't think it's really trailer material unless you could also upscale the other textures in that shot.  Then, if you recorded the scene as it looked before HD textures, we could wipe between them to show the improvement.  But I didn't particularly have plans at this time to show any HD textures in the trailer.  I would consider using the deathray footage if it were at 640x480 and not horribly compressed tongue

Just for the record, the AA.wmv video is acceptable quality in and of itself, for anyone who wants to use that as a reference.  But that's the bare minimum!  As nice as it looks, keep in mind that all footage will get compressed at least twice more before most people see it on YouTube.


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#20 24/7/08 21:13

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

OK, here's my first contribution to the trailer:
http://edt.oni2.net/AE_Files/AllChars1.mov

Shapeshift through all the characters, including BGI troops, Motoko, Black ops and so on. 152 characters in 12 seconds.

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#21 24/7/08 21:40

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Thank you, and you even used the little-known (these days) Apple Animation codec for extra-high quality!  I don't mind the text on the side, but just for future reference, if you've got debugging-type messages on by default, it's best to have them off when recording for the trailer.  I think it works fine in this case, though.  Okay, scratch one off the list!


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#22 24/7/08 21:49

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Well, I thought having the names of the characters scroll by was cool... Actually, the real reason, is that in Dev Mode, I can scroll through the characters quickly, by holding down the F8 key, but, if I used shapeshifter and not Dev Mode, then I have to keep pressing the F8 key and then it took 30 secs to go through all of them. 

Unfortunately, we don't have the option of turning off the console, but I suppose I could take an old version and modify it without enabling the console.

I tried using Sorenson, but it was too hard on my computer, so the video was very slow.

Last edited by EdT (24/7/08 21:58)

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#23 24/7/08 21:57

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Well, I wasn't going to mention it because there's just a wee handful of Mac users here, but the Animation codec is pretty much the best choice when trying to record super-high quality video.  It was designed to respect the sharp lines and large-area frame-to-frame changes that are inherent in animation.  That being said (and by all means continue using Animation), Sorenson shouldn't actually be a problem for your Mac.  Assuming you're using Snapz Pro, the video isn't encoded with the codec of your choice until the recording phase is done, so, granted, it might take a while to save the movie, but the result will be no worse than on a state-of-the-art Mac.  Your computer may not even be able to play it back at its full frame rate, but the actual video is still good.  I remember my powerful PowerMac G4 couldn't smoothly play 640x480 Sorenson movies, so I know what you're saying when you say it's hard on the computer.


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#24 24/7/08 23:13

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

You might try sending the 640x480 file to YT, then they will give you the option for a higher quality playback.
For example take a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdsG5KkYf5s  and then the higher quality version.

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#25 24/7/08 23:26

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition trailer

Well, the high-quality version is a lot better, but still not good enough to last through the recompressing when I export the final trailer from FCE and import it into YouTube.  Also, the high-quality option doesn't always show (see my trailer draft as an example).  I suspect that means the only version used *is* the high-quality version, but I just don't like how the system works.  Oh, and there's a slightly updated trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdpExd3dojc, but there's not much new to see here; that will come with the next cut.

Everyone, don't forget that I can use your help in recording the footage listed up in post #17 there.  Please think about whether you can contribute.  Thanks!

Edit: Oh yeah, is anyone else getting an irritating volume thing with the trailer draft video?  Like, the volume seesaws up and down during the video?

Last edited by Iritscen (24/7/08 23:28)


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