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#26 3/3/08 9:19

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

This sounds like fun!  Question, once we import it to Oni, I assume as a M3GM, how do we display it in a level?  For example in the TCTF headquarters garage?

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#27 3/3/08 11:27

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Well, I would keep is as the private car of a spooky BGI agent, and limit its appearance to the Airport intro and maybe a few other places.
It could indeed make an appearance at the TCTF HQ, but I'm not sure it'll be spooky enough if Konoko can take her time to check it out...
The big problem with the M3GM right now is that the collision is rather rudimentary (e.g., bullets shot at the car would fly straight through).
So one can either bake the car into the environment as "furniture" or surround the M3GM with a collision box. We can't really do either yet.
A simpler solution is to make the car visible only in cutscenes: either narrowly escaping Konoko or lurking around without Konoko noticing.
Alternatively, it could be planted in areas you can't reach... E.g., right outside the car park (where you can see it through the windows)...

Obviously, that would make for a G-Man effect (at least in the early levels). You wouldn't fight the agents until late in the game, like Muro.

As for the finish of the car, I think brushed metal is great, but I'd make it black titanium instead of stainless steel.
I'd also exaggerate the thickness of contours and such, to give the details a more cartoonish and Oni-like aspect.

@ Lancia Stratos Zero: Heh, that's a pure rolling sculpture, not a car. I prefer the Audi Avus or the Bugatti Veyron.
I'm personally quite fond of the Peugeot 907. For one thing, it can actually roll at 200mph, unlike most concept cars.
There's a story on the wiki about it travelling backwards at 146mph (they just hit the brakes while it was speeding).

@ DeLorean revival: There's no mention of the resumed production on Wikipedia. What are your sources, Iritscen?

Last edited by geyser (3/3/08 11:28)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#28 3/3/08 11:27

guido
Member
From: Milan, Italy
Registered: 25/4/07
Website

Re: Car 960


What if this is as good as it gets?

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#29 3/3/08 12:10

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Well, Morgan certainly has some nice rounded design (the whole Aero series is nice), but that makes it all the harder to render in low-poly.
Same for some retro models (I'm forgetting the names, but some of the pioneers of car aerodynamics were cooler than today's concepts).
I was quite into cars a few years ago, and I could point out a few Lotuses and Aston Martins, and other rather sexy Le Mans underdogs...

Still, like Iritscen said, it's best to focus on what we have, and that is: a DeLorean, then a Camaro, an Avus and a maybe a few others.
The DeLorean stands out (on par with the Camaro as far as the import-readiness goes, but more distinctive and appealing to retexture).


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#30 3/3/08 17:55

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Car 960

The article on the actual DMC-12 has the info on the new production line, unless it's an elaborate prank.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#31 3/3/08 20:31

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Ah, yes. Sorry. Overlooked that paragraph for some reason. Doesn't look like a prank. Looks like some timely publicity for the Edition and vice-versa wink

Here's the trimmed DeLorean ready for retexturing (about 640 UVs now): http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/vehicles/delorean.zip
The mapping of the wheels is messed up in the obvious "naive" way (left side looks OK, right side is mirrored). Not a problem.

And take a deep breath before you have a look at this other baby: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/I … /ID/271119
It's crazy what can be found on TurboSquid with some patience. Merry Christmas. More fitting for Oni 2 than for Oni 1 though smile

On a completely different note, here's yet another goodie: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/I … /ID/339422
As far as I can tell, it has an excessive poly count for Oni (and since it's fresh IP, it wouldn't be right to put it in anyway)

I'll release a new version of the OBJ viewer soon enough, that'll give you a lot more control over the viewport than now.

Last edited by geyser (3/3/08 20:33)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#32 3/3/08 21:48

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Car 960

"some timely publicity" -- yeah, synergistic advertising, man!

But getting back to EdT's question (he was clearly thinking ahead, whereas I was not), it's surprising to me that we don't have the means (yet) to put a car into a level.

Enlighten me: how are the extant vehicles being placed in Oni's levels?  I mean, they're nice and solid.  Why can't we use that method for the cars/whatever we add?

Edit: Oh yeah, and the Countach a la Carmageddon scares me, but I guess we could remove the blades and retexture it and it would look like new.  Btw, who here loved Carmageddon?  Man do I wish my Mac could still run it.

Last edited by Iritscen (3/3/08 21:50)


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#33 3/3/08 22:10

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

geyser: I tried to import your delorean with OniSplit, but got the following message, I already informed Neo.
I'm using the latest version.

mono onisplit.exe -create:m3gm test delorean.obj
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Int32].get_Item (Int32 ) [0x00000] 
  at Oni.Files.Geometry.ObjFile.ReadVertices (System.String[] tokens) [0x00000] 
  at Oni.Files.Geometry.ObjFile.ReadFace (System.String[] tokens) [0x00000] 
  at Oni.Files.Geometry.ObjFile.ReadObjFile (System.IO.TextReader reader) [0x00000] 
  at Oni.Files.Geometry.ObjFile.FromFile (System.String filePath) [0x00000] 
  at Oni.Files.Geometry.GeometryImporter.Import (System.String filePath, System.String outputDirPath) [0x00000] 
  at Oni.Files.Program.CreateGeometry (System.String[] args) [0x00000] 
  at Oni.Files.Program.Main (System.String[] args) [0x00000]

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#34 3/3/08 22:25

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

@ Ed: It's not triangulated, so it's ready for retexturing, not for importing.
And it doesn't use Oni's world units, so it would look pretty huge anyway.
I omitted to make a triangulated version but we'll have one soon enough.

@ Iritscen:
Never played Carmaggeddon. Watched a couple of Mad Max movies though... The blades and steam engine are OK for a post-apocalyptic setup.
It's easy to take away the blades, whereas ripping out the steam engine might mean rebuilding the rear of the car a bit, which is not for the lazy.
Retexturing the Countach would be a shame since it has that gorgeous reflection map... it really asks us to take full advantage of that texture...
You know what? We might put it right into Oni. In the existing storyline. Chapter 6. Replace the ugly van with a battered, reinforced Countach smile

Now to Ed's "question". We absolutely do have the means to put a car into a level as an M3GM, i.e., as an animated (or static) cutscene object.
The issue of animating it is a bit more tricky, but given a few keyframes and some calculation, it'll be easy to generate good-looking OBAN tracks.
The only problem with the M3GM is that I haven't figured out yet whether they can or not be set up to have proper character or projectile collision.
If that is not the case, a static M3GM can either be placed out of reach or enclosed in a collision box (the collision box is part of the environment).

The "problem" with the parked cars in the original Oni is that they are an integral part of the environment: e.g., they're part of the visibility tree...
It's not possible at the moment (but it should be eventually) to rebuild a level's environment structure after adding or altering a bunch of polygons.
So (for the time being) this brings us back to cutscene objects (either animated or static), possibly with some hand-made, hackish collision boxes.
Back to the Countach, if we have trouble making it solid, we could make it explode after breaching the security. And then maybe bring in the van.

But really, we're not there yet. As for the DeLorean, I'm quite happy with a few fugitive appearances, and M3GM are more than enough for that.

Last edited by geyser (3/3/08 22:32)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#35 3/3/08 22:39

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

geyser:  OK, thanks for the info.  I was going to do a quick test, importing the delorean and then replacing car 960, just to see what would happen.  I'll wait for a triangulated one.

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#36 3/3/08 23:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Er, no, silly me. Actually it is triangulated and thus pretty much Oni-ready. However, it uses negative indices, a feature of OBJ that Neo doesn't support (yet?).
I had asked him about that feature before, but he didn't seem too motivated to support all the conventions of the OBJ format, preferring to go for DAE Collada.

The negative indices are actually quite useful and it's a shame that most 3D programs don't use them when saving OBJ.
Incidentally, that means that the easiest way to get rid of the negative indices is to put the OBJ through Blender (haha).
For basic operations such as that positive/negative reindexation, you can also load the OBJ into your spreadsheet app.

Last edited by geyser (3/3/08 23:03)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#37 3/3/08 23:10

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

negative indices... I wonder if that is the reason the delorean crashes both ac3d and Cheetah3D, I noticed the original version did the same.  However, I can open the 3ds version in Cheetah3D.

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#38 4/3/08 20:26

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Well the new OniSplit works... But now how do we fix this big_smile
(Ignore the small wheels, I forgot to delete the code that spawns them)

deloreanLG.jpg

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#39 4/3/08 20:43

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

The scaling, rotation, and position of cutscene objects are defined in the OBOA
The DeLorean and the original car960 use different units and axis conventions.
So you'll have to adjust the scale and the rotation quaternion appropriately smile

Hopefully the downsampled texture will look less ugly with exaggerated lines.

Last edited by geyser (4/3/08 20:45)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#40 5/3/08 0:04

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Car 960

xD That is epic


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#41 5/3/08 10:01

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

geyser: I found OBOA using OUP, but is there an equivalent file in AE?

Also, can you export your version of the delorean into a .3ds format.  I want to see if my 3D programs can open it. Thanks.

Last edited by EdT (5/3/08 11:57)

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#42 5/3/08 20:29

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Just experimenting, found the Nova car on Turbosquid and was able to import it as car 960

No need to mess with the OBOA, just rotated and scaled before importing to Oni.

nova.jpg

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#43 5/3/08 21:31

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

OBOA is an unnamed resource that's part of ONLV, so in our case you'll find it in ONLVAirport.oni somewhere smile

I've seen the Nova when browsing the free Turbosquid cars myself. It's ugly (partly because of the tiny cockpit).
It could be redeemed by a complete retexturing, sorta redefining the key elements of the car in an original way.
(e.g., make it a single-seater with no doors on the sides, or scale the cockpit back up to reasonable proportions)
Point is, it's a little cartoony to start with and those not-too-sensible proportions will make it hard to put it in Oni.
And so I still like the DeLorean (and Countach) a lot better, sorry. You can look for a better "blackvan", though.

Last edited by geyser (5/3/08 21:33)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#44 5/3/08 22:33

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Finally:

delorean3.jpg

As I said the Nova was just an experiment to see if I can get the .obj in at the right scale and rotation.  I was finally able to get the delorean into one of my 3D programs.

Now to start playing with the textures...

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#45 5/3/08 23:51

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Car 960

That's sweet, EdT.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#46 8/3/08 0:04

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Car 960

Can we get a shot from the back? Please? The DeLorean is sexy.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#47 8/3/08 0:33

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

I've updated the OBJ that's in the ZIP that's on oni2.net: http://geyser.oni2.net/edition/vehicles/delorean.zip
No one seemed to complain about the front of the car in Ed's shot, but I fixed it anyway (added 8 triangles).
There was also a spurious triangle inside the car. And I had already made the "grid" double-sided last time.
I also fixed the UVs on the right side of the wheels, so that whatever's written on them is not mirrored.

Now you can get crazy with the textures and reflection map. You can scale and rotate it if you want.
Be sure to release .oni files as you go along, so people like Gumby can take their own screenshots tongue

Last edited by geyser (8/3/08 0:34)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#48 8/3/08 18:51

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Car 960

Gumby can't take screenshots at all...no computer >_>


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#49 8/3/08 19:47

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Car 960

Short note here on the Countach. It's nice but it will need a little work on mesh splitting/trimming.
Some UVs are wrong (on the inside of the wheels) and the bloody knives can't be easily removed.
Other than that, it will make a nice rocket-powered tank once we get rid of the chimney and piston.
I'd retexture it a bit so that it hints at the Tumbler (from Batman Begins) without really being one.
As for the knives, they could be removed, but it's easier to make them less curved and bloody.

Of course, this is a call to anyone willing to spend some time on the Countach with a 3D editor...
Not that I can't do everything in Blender myself, but I'd rather not, if you see what I mean... tongue

Last edited by geyser (8/3/08 22:06)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#50 9/3/08 19:05

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Car 960

Heh, all we need now is an animation for Konoko to recline on the hood...


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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