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#1 19/2/08 10:53

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Guess Who

So, over the weekend, my muse attacked me while I was supposed to be working on important personal stuff (it's very sneaky and cruel like that) and I used some of my valuable time to brainstorm an Oni 2 story and setting and do some doodles.  This is the only doodle that doesn't need a lot of touch-up before it's fit to be displayed.  It's a character that would be in my Oni 2 storyline.

http://iritscen.oni2.net/forum/2008/MysteryMan.jpg

Here's the community participation part: you have to tell me who this is.  Hint: He appears in Oni.

Also, I screwed up the shape of the top of his head, and that annoys me now, but I'm going to go ahead and post it anyway and fix it later.

Last edited by Iritscen (23/7/17 9:52)


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#2 20/2/08 3:40

LastmanSAC
Member
From: Land-down-under,VIC, Ballarat
Registered: 1/9/07

Re: Guess Who

isn't he the red headed guy from the mission failure screens? I've been planning stuff for him too...

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#3 20/2/08 5:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
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Re: Guess Who

"I've been planning stuff for him too..." Everybody's been planning stuff for him.
However, to old colorblind me, Iritscen's profile looks more like Muro than Red.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#4 20/2/08 9:31

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

Nope and nope.

Further hint: he does appear in Oni, but how many times he appears is debatable.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#5 20/2/08 13:51

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

Daddy?


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#6 20/2/08 14:06

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

smile  Or a clone of him.  But without the mask this time.

So yes, the correct answer was Mukade or Hasegawa, because the drawing was based on the notion that Mukade was a clone or Daodan clone of the doctor.  In other words, I used Hasegawa as the model for the face but imagined what he would look like if he was evil.  Although in the Oni 2 storyline I was brainstorming, he's not evil anymore, not on a full-time basis anyway.

There's another drawing I want to post when I can fix some things; another couple of familiar faces from Oni, but not as you've seen them before.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#7 20/2/08 18:52

Seventeen Seconds
Member
Registered: 30/9/07

Re: Guess Who

False, everyone knows Dr. Hasegawa is a mild-mannered college professor easily led astray by 19-year old college co-eds, not a master ninja.  Lies! big_smile

Welcome to the Oni 2 writing club by the way... get out while you still can

Last edited by Seventeen Seconds (20/2/08 18:55)

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#8 20/2/08 19:33

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

False, everyone knows Dr. Hasegawa is a mild-mannered college professor easily led astray by 19-year old college co-eds, not a master ninja.  Lies!

What if the diary was a lie, or at least a convenient kind of truth? Never thought of it that way, did ya? Why the blam not? wink

in the Oni 2 storyline I was brainstorming, he's not evil anymore, not on a full-time basis anyway.

He never was evil. Is Muro evil? Are Strikers evil? They do what they do because they care. And because "we're all doomed".

Last edited by geyser (20/2/08 19:33)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#9 21/2/08 9:11

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

geyser wrote:

He never was evil. Is Muro evil? Are Strikers evil? They do what they do because they care. And because "we're all doomed".

Everything's relative with you, isn't it? wink


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#10 21/2/08 13:04

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

Always. It annoys the crap out of some people, but I like it that way smile
I think you need to relativize and complexify a lot when telling a story.
Otherwise you're disregarding the fundamental ambiguity of real life.
There are very different ways to relate to just about anything in Oni.
And even if the author embraces a version, why should that matter?
The characters we're looking at still have their contradictory beliefs.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#11 21/2/08 13:42

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

I hear what you're saying.  The danger in writing an ambiguous story is that if the author wants to convey a message, it will get lost in interpretation.  In English class, we spent hours trying to guess at what an author intended by something in their story.  It made me crazy and I decided that symbolism was rubbish; a writer ought to come out and say what they mean if they care about people benefiting from their message.  I have mellowed in that area a bit since high school, but I still prefer stories that have a clear moral.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#12 21/2/08 14:33

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

Clear morals don't need a story as a vector in my opinion.
If you wanna make a personal statement, write an essay.
A story built around a "clear moral" is a dead story. IMO.
Even worse than a story that doesn't have a moral at all.
A story should live on its own, message or no message.
But of course that's an idealist concept of storytelling...
That kind of literature is sorta dead and buried today.
Everyone wants to read (or write) "message" stories.

Last edited by geyser (21/2/08 14:41)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#13 21/2/08 16:58

Raptor
Member
From: Florida
Registered: 21/3/07

Re: Guess Who

wait a minute Mukade is Konokos father? wOw i didnt know that. how did u guys know


Raptor-SDvidsig.gif

kingraptor086.png

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#14 21/2/08 17:24

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

It's just a possibility, Raptor, nothing more. Read here if you're interested: http://wiki.oni2.net/Oni2:Truth_Number_Zero


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#15 23/2/08 22:28

LastmanSAC
Member
From: Land-down-under,VIC, Ballarat
Registered: 1/9/07

Re: Guess Who

i think that having a hidden message or meaning for a story is more just the writer trying to justify themselves creating the story in the first place, why they don't make it clear is up to the pysche of the person who writes it.

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#16 25/2/08 9:55

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

I do believe that the best "morals" in the story-sense of the word come from stories where people behave realistically and the consequences of their behavior are realistic.  I definitely don't think that the writer should beat you over the head with the moral, though.  I guess I'm saying I like clear stories better than stories where there might or might not be symbolism, and you don't know what they might be trying to say.  We were constantly playing that guessing game in school and it drove me crazy.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#17 25/2/08 10:36

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

So you are saying clear moral or no moral is the way...
What about multiple, pluralistic, conflicting morals? smile


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#18 25/2/08 10:55

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

See, that's the kind of story I don't like.  I would rather watch a mindless action movie (I still love the earliest DBZ movies for some reason -- The World's Strongest is genius work in my opinion, and yet it's as shallow as a kiddie pool) than a movie where I don't know what conclusion to draw from something symbolic.

To me, the power in a story comes from revealing a truth in the end that underlied the way the story turned out -- not from being given a lot of loose threads to try to assemble yourself into one of many possible explanations.  A random example: Have you watched Naruto?  There's a fight well into the show, Gaara vs. Kimimaro, where we have a bad guy who we don't know anything about who shows the kind of determination to win that normally only good guys have.  But by the end of the fight, thanks to flashbacks and a running dialogue between the combatants, we find out what Kimimaro's all-powerful motivation is, and at the same time learn something about human nature.  I can't say too much without spoiling it, but it gets spelled out for us when someone comments on the fight afterward.  It's not a moral as in "this is right, that is wrong", it's a truism about human nature that's revealed, as to why someone might devote their life to evil knowingly.  Most of Naruto's fights have an ending like that, where sometimes you have to think about it, but if you do, you realize there's a moral.  That's what good shounen anime/manga is all about.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#19 25/2/08 12:07

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

I have never watched Naruto or any shounen anime, being deeply annoyed by them a priori.
I did watch some cheap mainstream anime (DBZ and such) right after immigrating in France.
It has been quite helpful in order to learn French, but apart from that it's appallingly empty smile
I do love going braindead by watching blockbusters, but I'd rather not create such stories...
Point is, there's a huge crowd of writers out there who would die to write a blockbuster or 2.
And the way I see it, I'd just as well leave the blockbusters to them, and write complex stuff.
I know better than to make people to be gratuitously distracted or moralized by what I write.
In that sense, probably I'm not all that competent when it comes to designing "good" anime smile
I'm rather keen on outsiders (Miyazaki's Nausicaa, for example, has a fairly complex moral).


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#20 25/2/08 12:24

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

Yeah, most anime has a clear-cut interpretation and good/bad sides.  Exceptions would be shows like the Gundam series, where it's usually hard to say which side is right.  Even there the interpretation is clear and straightforward.  However, if you haven't seen Kino's Journey, I think you would really like it.  It's very... open to interpretation.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#21 25/2/08 13:30

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

I'm quite happy with Nausicaa and Ergo Proxy, thanks. And I still have Texhnolyze and Avatar: The Last Airbender on my must-finish-watching list.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#22 25/2/08 13:54

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

...I haven't seen Avatar, but I thought it was pretty similar to shounen anime.  (Am enjoying Ergo Proxy myself; need to finish buying the DVDs at some point.)


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#23 25/2/08 13:57

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

Ergo Proxy: enjoying the Amrita/Daodan parallel? Have you already seen the episode where Mai, (Mutant) Muro and Shinatama are stranded in the middle of nowhere?
Avatar looks somewhat like Naruto to those who know both, and it certainly is targeted at a young public, but I rather like it how sworn enemies become allies over time.
I'm also watching it for the sake of saying "fa fa fa" to those who say gaijin anime can only suck. I think it has some nice dialogue and a very consistent team of artists.

Last edited by geyser (25/2/08 14:00)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#24 25/2/08 14:25

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Guess Who

I have had Avatar recommended to me by a friend and plan to watch it at some point.  I just wondered how to reconcile your liking it with your disliking shonen anime.  Enemies becoming allies is actually a tried-and-true shonen theme (Cf. DBZ, Naruto, RuroKen, many others).  Naruto in particular can be annoying, that is, the main character named Naruto, but he gets quite tolerable as time goes on.  Anyway, I'm done harping on that series.

Hmm, I don't recognize the episode you hint at in EP.  I have only recently seen the "revelation" in the episode where Vincent is staying in the mansion with the friendly blonde guy.  (Wow, that sounds gay.)  I am fuzzy on what I saw after that, as I fell off the DVD-buying wagon some months ago.  Hard enough keeping up with TV by itself.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#25 25/2/08 14:47

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Guess Who

The "busy doing nothing" episode comes long after the library and right before the quiz show.

"I just wondered how to reconcile your liking it with your disliking shonen anime." That's easy smile
Watched a few AMVs of Naruto and said "nah", watched a few AMVs of Avatar and said "hmm..."
I don't think in genres. I know what I like, and if I like what I see, I watch it. Simple enough.
I didn't even know that Naruto was supposed to be "shounen" until you mentioned it today.

Last edited by geyser (25/2/08 15:13)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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