Oni 2

TheCreature · 04/21/11 16:04

Kerr- you shoot a scientist with a Mbow, and they die, even if there were hypos available. Plus, I highly doubt that Griffin would allow Kerr to have a chrysalis. Even if Kerr wanted one in the first place.

Shinitama- there was a backup. It was wired to a weapons system in Griffin's bunker.

Griffin & Muro (assuming you didn't kill Griffin)- they COULD both still be alive. I'd imagine griffin and Mai would get patched up after the fight, and Muro winds up in a maximum security mental institution.

Lithium · 04/21/11 17:04

Muro is to awesome to be locked up in there D:<
Edit: My grammar is crap D:

Last edited by Lithium (04/21/11 17:04)

TheCreature · 04/21/11 20:04

Well, Mai & Griffin would have to account for his chrysalis, of course, but he's not all THAT powerful.

ooohhh... Maybe in Oni 2, we could play as Muro working to redeem himself or something. Thoughts?

Lithium · 04/21/11 20:04

Play as Muro blowing shit up
Going around destroying any survivors or recruiting them in his New World Syndicate, and taking over what's left of the world. Then proceeding to take down resistance members who dare challenge Muro and his New World Order.

Last edited by Lithium (04/21/11 20:04)

TOCS · 04/22/11 04:04

Isn't the New World Order used somewhere else? Red Faction, Soldier of Fortune?

Masterweaver · 04/22/11 06:04

If I recall, it's theorized that Muro was basically shot in the head by the TCTF and then viciously dissected. Or that his Imago form was unsustainable and self-consuming... Mukade didn't get that treatment because at that point the only person who knew about him being incapacitated was Mai.

Dirk Gently · 04/22/11 08:04

TOCS wrote:

Isn't the New World Order used somewhere else? Red Faction, Soldier of Fortune?

Where isn't it used?

Jon God · 04/22/11 15:04

TheCreature wrote:

Kerr- you shoot a scientist with a Mbow, and they die, even if there were hypos available. Plus, I highly doubt that Griffin would allow Kerr to have a chrysalis. Even if Kerr wanted one in the first place.
Shinitama- there was a backup. It was wired to a weapons system in Griffin's bunker.
Griffin & Muro (assuming you didn't kill Griffin)- they COULD both still be alive. I'd imagine griffin and Mai would get patched up after the fight, and Muro winds up in a maximum security mental institution.

Well, we don't know what it even takes to have a chrysalis implanted in you. For all we know, both Griffin and Kerr could have secretly had it done.

As for Shinitama, why not say that if there was one copy of her, there are a ton? Who says there couldn't be more?

TheCreature · 04/22/11 20:04

I'd imagine it's not a simple procedure to get a chrysalis. I mean, Griffin needs Kerr --who helped create the thing-- and Shinitama --who was designed specifically for the purpose-- just to keep track of Konoko's chrysalis. And not just the surgery to implant it, but there's gotta be all sorts of conditioning and rehabilitation afterwards.

Also... the only known successful Daodan chrysalis implantations were done with children. If we include Barabas (maybe Mukade too) as an attempt at recreating the Daodan, I think it's apparent that it wasn't completely successful. Neither Kerr or Griffin showed signs of being implanted like Barabas (Can't tell with Mukade, because he's wearing full armor).

BTW, has anyone else read the Old Man's War books? There's some parallels in there that we might use to better describe some of Oni's elements. (Universal ammunition, enhanced humans, advanced armor similar to Konoko's jumpsuit beneath the armor plates)

Lithium · 04/22/11 20:04

Probably Mukade as well, I mean he can teleport and shoot stars from his body. I think of them as pre mature Imago Forms

Jon God · 04/23/11 16:04

TheCreature wrote:

I'd imagine it's not a simple procedure to get a chrysalis. I mean, Griffin needs Kerr --who helped create the thing-- and Shinitama --who was designed specifically for the purpose-- just to keep track of Konoko's chrysalis. And not just the surgery to implant it, but there's gotta be all sorts of conditioning and rehabilitation afterwards.

This would be the assumption, which is as provably false as Mukade being alive.

My whole point here is that this is all based on very shaky coincidences. Mukade being alive, ect.

Masterweaver · 04/23/11 21:04

OTOH, Mukade was named, is awesome, and a mid-level boss with some plot hooks. Perfect character to connect the first game to a sequel. If we assume that everybody who died died,t hen we're limited to Mai and Agent Thorsten as link characters, which doesn't work with such a large previous cast.

SO. named characters. Mai, definite yes. Kerr, emotional endmidgame death and low likelyhood of superhuman abilities, probably not. Griffin... penultimate boss who either you kill or joins you for the ultimate fight, coupled with panic at Zombietama, and probable morals preventing superhuman augmentation, probable no. Shinitama, artificial, emotional, always your friend and sometimes your only one, suffers a lot and then dies... there are ways of reviving her, but she probably should be revealed to have survived midgame in the sequel and not before. Agent Thorsten, one-off, two lines, has a name, he'd probably make it as a "remember this guy?" The Deadly Brain... not that specific one, but a good potential for a repeat. Barbaras... Definite foe, ridiculously overpower mechanically both times you fight him, and legitimately "dies" near the TCTF... He's really a flat but defined character, not good material. Mukade, undefined and awesome, "dies" far away from anyone, quite probably superhuman... not arguing how he could survive, his air of mystery could easily be applied to the sequel to give it s similar "what am I not being told" feel. Jamie... no, probably dead, unless you believe the theory that that disk was all lies. Hasegawa only appeared once in the entire game, via journals, so he's got a straight shot at suddenly cropping up to reveal some mysteries. Muro... final boss, huge "luke I am your father" feel, either swarms you with baddies or is super powered...again, ignoring the how he could have survived, Muro is not important to the feel of Oni, and his only real plot purpose is to serve as the definite evil overlord, which cannot be repeated in the sequel for fear of cheapening it. If he IS alive, he cannot be as powerful as he was.

Jon God · 04/26/11 01:04

Masterweaver wrote:

OTOH, Mukade was named, is awesome, and a mid-level boss with some plot hooks. Perfect character to connect the first game to a sequel. If we assume that everybody who died died,t hen we're limited to Mai and Agent Thorsten as link characters, which doesn't work with such a large previous cast.
SO. named characters. Mai, definite yes. Kerr, emotional endmidgame death and low likelyhood of superhuman abilities, probably not. Griffin... penultimate boss who either you kill or joins you for the ultimate fight, coupled with panic at Zombietama, and probable morals preventing superhuman augmentation, probable no. Shinitama, artificial, emotional, always your friend and sometimes your only one, suffers a lot and then dies... there are ways of reviving her, but she probably should be revealed to have survived midgame in the sequel and not before. Agent Thorsten, one-off, two lines, has a name, he'd probably make it as a "remember this guy?" The Deadly Brain... not that specific one, but a good potential for a repeat. Barbaras... Definite foe, ridiculously overpower mechanically both times you fight him, and legitimately "dies" near the TCTF... He's really a flat but defined character, not good material. Mukade, undefined and awesome, "dies" far away from anyone, quite probably superhuman... not arguing how he could survive, his air of mystery could easily be applied to the sequel to give it s similar "what am I not being told" feel. Jamie... no, probably dead, unless you believe the theory that that disk was all lies. Hasegawa only appeared once in the entire game, via journals, so he's got a straight shot at suddenly cropping up to reveal some mysteries. Muro... final boss, huge "luke I am your father" feel, either swarms you with baddies or is super powered...again, ignoring the how he could have survived, Muro is not important to the feel of Oni, and his only real plot purpose is to serve as the definite evil overlord, which cannot be repeated in the sequel for fear of cheapening it. If he IS alive, he cannot be as powerful as he was.

So, all of those characters died, Mukade included. Why not just get a new cast of characters for a future game? Why use shallow plot devices to bring back killed off characters to give their deaths less of a meaning than they already had? I'd much rather see a whole new cast of heroes and villains, just as colorful as before.

Gumby · 04/26/11 03:04

Barabus and Mukade had good shots at surviving, imo. Barabus is a large part machine anyhow, I'd love to see an updated version of him with even more inorganic parts. Mukade has already been discussed. Hasegawa was never shown really, we don't know what happened to him.

Masterweaver · 04/26/11 07:04

Why not get a new cast? Well, I'll tell you: I don't view the Oni series to be episodic.

IF you want to make a sequel that is tied to the original, then you have to bring back at least a third of the cast in the previous installment. General rule of thumb. And I think there's roughly about twelve characters... only Mai and Hasegawa are definitely not dead, and we need two others. Shinitama is obvious, as the game was influenced by the Ghost in the Machine manganime. Who the other character could be is a matter for debate, though Mukade has the obvious selling potential of being cool and the plot potential of being mysterious but defined.

Leus · 04/26/11 08:04

I mean, yeah, I feel like the best case for bringing Mukade back is how unexplained a lot of things regarding him were left. Mai and Shinitama are also two definites, I agree. Hasegawa would be cool to see, though I'm not sure he's DEFINITELY not dead. One way or another, it has to be determined either that he's dead or he shows up. I think maybe her quest at the beginning of Oni 2 should be seeking him out.

Fail grammar.

TheCreature · 04/26/11 09:04

I agree with that. And I'd vote for Mukade over Barabas any day. If you bring back Mukade, the reaction is gonna be more like "Holy crap he survived! What is this guy?" Whereas if Barabas shows up you get a reaction more like "This guy again? Seriously? Why'd they bring him back?"

Alternately, (if we don't want them to survive) you could have them posthumously influence the game. Say, Mai tries to dig into what Mukade really was, and goes on several quests hunting through his organization/past.

Delano762 · 04/26/11 09:04

I think Hasegawa must be long dead. All the characters talk about him like he's long gone. Besides, I think that apart from Mai, only Griffin and Shinatama fits in Oni 2. Shinatama may fit in because she's a robot. When she got killed the first time, it turned out that she wasn't QUITE dead. So that means that after the second death maybe she isn't QUITE dead. You know, just extract some stuff from her corpse, a brain or something which functions as it, then put it in a new body...

Fail grammar here too.

Masterweaver · 04/26/11 10:04

We never actually find out what happened to Hasegawa after he joined forces with the syndicate. He could be presumed dead because e dropped off the radar to avoid Muro.

Griffin, though, has to be dead. Either you shot him, or he fought swarms of minions and (most likely) died. The telling part is the ending cinematic, where Mai is alone.

Gumby · 04/26/11 12:04

Griffin can actually survive the ending.

Masterweaver · 04/26/11 13:04

Yes, yes, he can technically mechanically survive, but aesthetically he's not in the end cinematic and really, him dying is kind of a Big Thing in Mai's mind.

Leus · 04/27/11 08:04

I think it's more likely that he doesn't survive so he'll probably be dead in Oni 2. Anyway, I think he ran his course.

TheCreature · 04/27/11 09:04

Honestly, I don't like the idea of Shini coming back in Oni 2. It just sounds... cheap.

And as for the end cinematic... I'm not sure we oughta read too much into who's in it and who's not, since Mai is literally the only living person in there.

Lithium · 04/27/11 11:04

I assume the Daodan Spike thing she had at the end killed Griffin

Sharoduinn · 04/27/11 11:04

Why not have Griffin come back in Oni 2, maybe as a bum living in the streets having lost his work, with Agent Thorsten (or what was his name again?). He'd then just be a small character in the sequel adding depth to the story, and he could do a 'Kerr kind of thing' at some point...

The main character for the sequel could be somebody else than Konoko, but she could be a guide at least in the beginning (just like Kyle Katarn in JKA )

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