Anniversary Edition Preview

Iritscen · 02/19/08 10:02

I tried to test for the stairs thing and didn't get much of an answer. It's hard to control an experiment with an AI.

Anyway, I noticed that in level19, Konoko's a bit of a kangaroo, isn't she? Did someone comment on this already? I didn't see it. Anyway, it's pretty awesome. I was able to leap up to one of the sniper towers and get goodies. It's a pretty extreme upgrade, though, so I'm on the fence as to whether it's a good idea. Maybe if she could do that only when in overpower mode... but I don't know if that's possible.

geyser · 02/19/08 21:02

Those "Daodan jumps" could be turned on and off by overpower (maybe together with other upgrades), but only on PC.
Currently it can be done with chr_set_class, for which there is no substitute on the Mac (except for the beta versions).
I had the impression that the snipers reloaded faster, so they were harder to disarm right after reloading... Could be.

Iritscen · 02/20/08 09:02

Shame that it can't be done that way on a Mac, but it *is* fun as is, I have to say. I somehow dodged the sniper fire and then somehow got behind him and broke his back, maybe while he was reloading. Someone should definitely record that as a movie for your Edition trailer (I could, if you want).

EdT · 02/20/08 21:02

Anyway, I noticed that in level19, Konoko's a bit of a kangaroo, isn't she?

Mystery solved... Its also in the PC version. Nice Easter egg, geyser...

Actually, I like it, I always thought she should be able to jump higher than normal.

Last edited by EdT (02/20/08 21:02)

Gumby · 02/20/08 23:02

Not that I can code anything right now....but the only thing stopping double jumping is knowing a way to make Konoko jump using a script....if someone knows how to do that (geyser?), than the rest is easy...

maybe an env animation...

Btw: I still read this stuff but typing with a Wii is a bitch, so don't expect much from me...

geyser · 02/21/08 08:02

Not that I can code anything right now....but the only thing stopping double jumping is knowing a way to make Konoko jump using a script....if someone knows how to do that (geyser?), than the rest is easy...
maybe an env animation...

Environment animations won't do because they rely on a no-collision box that moves through the enviroment along a preset path...
Jumping can't be triggered on characters either, at least not with the BSL interface currently available. So, chr_set_class or nothing.

Gumby · 02/21/08 18:02

So...you are saying that an environment animation would let you jump through the roof?

...couldn't you just fix the BSL system?

(kidding)

Last edited by Gumby (02/21/08 18:02)

geyser · 02/21/08 19:02

"So...you are saying that an environment animation would let you jump through the roof?"
No, unless there's a cutscene somewhere that uses an envanim box that goes through the roof.
Environment animations are tied to the environment. Specific locations, specific actions. Period.

Gumby · 02/21/08 21:02

Oh yeah...I remember testing one of those a while again. Stupid me.

I have other theories on getting it to work that I will keep to myself I was never finished with properly testing them all...a few of them will require extensive testing on how the noclip function works...

If only I had 70 dollars to buy what I need for my poor computer...getting a job will help with that, but right now all I will probably get is some minimum wage job at the mall...much worse than my minimum wage job at my aunt and uncle's company which also happened to be untaxed

s10k · 03/01/08 14:03

I have been trying the SAE a some time and I found some bugs, where two:

bug1:
bullets doesn't disappear?

bug2:

I have also a few sugestions, I will add them later.

P.S. New weapons are very cool and new improved ais are nice.

Last edited by s10k (03/01/08 14:03)

geyser · 03/01/08 20:03

The persisting shells are a feature added by Loser...
Not really sure what's wrong with Muro's legbreaker.

Iritscen · 03/01/08 21:03

I'm surprised to see persistent shells called a bug; I happen to be quite fond of it.

geyser · 03/01/08 21:03

@ Script: Thanks for pointing out the legbreaker bug... looks like Loser messed it up a bit. I'll look at the changes he did ASAP.

s10k · 03/02/08 05:03

Iritscen wrote:

I'm surprised to see persistent shells called a bug; I happen to be quite fond of it.

I don't like it very much.. I prefer it disabled. (the space is dirty if there are many shots)

+There are another bug(?) that only change some comguys to do ninja moves.. The black ones don't do them. Why?

(I also don't like the ideia of give comguys moves of ninjas.. Aren't they just Communications Trooper?)

geyser · 03/02/08 15:03

@ empty shells: Point taken. Making a note on making these optional. Note that it's quite easy to disable it by hand.
Just remove or rename the BINA3RAP*.oni files in the edition's x3deltas folder that appear to have to do with shells.
Once you've removed the un-wanted patches, rerun step0004.bat and step9999.bat to apply the rest of the Edition.

@ ninja comguys: These are Loser's response to an idea of mine... that the Comguys are Mukade's men, not Muro's.
However, I did not intend to make any of the commonly encountered Comguys fight like Ninjas. That's Loser's fault

Ideally, there'd be 3 classes of "regular" Comguys that are just hackers, and 3 other classes that have ninja skills.
Most often you'd encounter regular Comguys, but Muro's right-hand-man, for example, would be a Ninja Comguy...
The underlying idea is that the Ninja are not really human. They're androids coordinated by Comguys and Mukade.
Elite Comguys would also happen to be the candidates for Daodan implantation, along with a few of Muro's pets.

So relax - Ninja Comguys will probably be present in the final version, but in a much more subtle way than now.

Last edited by geyser (03/02/08 16:03)

Loser · 03/03/08 11:03

About shells:
They disappear in five minutes.

About legbreaker:
Not my fault, it is overall anniversary bug. Happens only sometimes, looks like the lookup routine doesn't have enough time( or what) to find aproppriate animation, so it uses punch forward throw animation of parent TRAC. Maybe there is a link between this bug and a fact that OniSplit changes ADDE fillers in files to zeros.

Script_10k:

(the space is dirty if there are many shots)

Well, that is what I am trying to do. Make Oni less plain-looking.

Loser

Last edited by Loser (03/03/08 11:03)

Your_Mom · 03/03/08 19:03

lol...when I first saw the "leg breaker bug", I though that section was boxed since muro is stepping on the guy's...uhm...pelvic area.

Iritscen · 03/03/08 21:03

lol, I didn't notice that before, Y_M. Wow, Muro really is evil; he's come up with an even crueler, more painful attack.

geyser · 03/06/08 12:03

About legbreaker:
Not my fault, it is overall anniversary bug. Happens only sometimes, looks like the lookup routine doesn't have enough time( or what) to find aproppriate animation, so it uses punch forward throw animation of parent TRAC. Maybe there is a link between this bug and a fact that OniSplit changes ADDE fillers in files to zeros.

After a quick check, Muro's legbreaker glitch has nothing to do with globalization as Loser suggested and everything to do with Loser's own TRAM hacks.
I've reverted Loser's hacks to both TRAM involved (while preserving the rest of the Edition content; all the characters globalized) and the glitch is gone.

So, Loser, you might want to doublecheck the changes you did and figure out what could have screwed up the lookups...
To everyone else: keep reporting these bugs. By now I am assured that globalization can't be responsible for any mess.

Oh, and zeroing out the DEAD threads can positively have no effect on Oni's behaviour. Oni overwrites them anyway.

Last edited by geyser (03/06/08 12:03)

Loser · 03/07/08 13:03

Acknowledged. Thank you for information. I will try to look at it. BTW I thank you all for posting bugs, it is great help.

Loser

Osiris · 04/01/08 01:04

Hey guys,

Just downloaded and played through the first 6 levels. Much more challenging this time around, I appreciate it. Here are some of my thoughts:

- Nice weapons dodging, thought the pathfinding while doing so could be improved (as has already been mentioned here).
- Thank you for turning some comguys into my worst nightmare.
- Along the same lines, thank you for upgrading Muro from jack@ss to demon. There was a glitch in the Airport Cargo Hangars level (might have been mentioned already, or maybe it's only me) where he fell off the ramp during the cutscene so I had to fight him and his escorts.
- Some of the newly-scripted hit/block behavior can be annoying. I'm glad that enemies can actually block while now, but sometimes it can be frustrating - for example, when I drop-kick a striker in the back when he's rolling out of the way, it doesn't hurt him. He must have some *damn* tough shoulderblades. Also, it's bad when enemies die and happen to fall backwards (even though I'm behind them at the time, punching them forwards...) and they hit me on the way down.

Overall, wonderful job on adding replay value to a game I've been replaying continuously for the last 8 years or so. I'm not much of a programmer and I hardly feel qualified to even leave my feedback. You guys are awesome.

Iritscen · 04/01/08 08:04

Just wait until you get to Chapter 15 and see how Konoko handles. :-)

On the subject Osiris brought up, about dodging giving Strikers, for example, invulnerability... is that new? I thought enemies and Konoko were always invulnerable while rolling.

Um, I want to just point something out that is either useless or maybe helpful. Watching the video coool posted the other day, where he fights as Muro, I noticed that sometimes the legbreaker animation actually works and sometimes it doesn't. I won't attempt to write a detailed account here as to when it works and when it doesn't; but if Loser wants to watch that video his eyes will probably get more from it than mine did. He might notice a reason for the move's intermittent functionality.

Loser · 04/01/08 09:04

About dodging: I will finetune it after my Maturita exam (final high school exam here in the Czech republic) as well as I will try other concepts. Until about half of May, I won't (and can't) touch Oni as I had completely deleted it from my harddrive (on purpose) ^_^.

Comguys are bugged, my mistake. Sorry.

Yea, yea, Muro rocks when some TRAM hacks are made. And t(h)rust me - there will be more (altough some people say it is obsolette work as original settings are good enough - I disagree ^_^).

About dodging invulnerability - But for you, saving your pretty face for numerous times thanks to this, it is good feature, eh? I mean - it is Konoko (original one) who has small invulnerable window at the beginning of each escape move. Other guys don't. So...how many times you dodged just-in-time with escape move and saw blue flash, indicating "block" of the attack? Each time this happened, you were saved thanks to these small invulnerable windows. And if Konoko (and furies, who inherit her escape moves) can, then why other chars can't? I had tested it and came to conclusion it is a good feature, adding to combat feeling (it looks a bit illogical, I agree. Just deal with it.). So I did it for all dodge moves in the game. No, no, we are not spoiled gamers - if you can do something, enemies can do as well. That way you prove you are an Oni expert. ^_^

To sum it up for all:
-in original, Konoko's (and fury's) escape moves have small window at the beginning (about 10-20 frames) where character is invulnerable (cannot be thrown, cannot be hurt-if you hit him, it indicates blue "blocked" flash). Other characters' escape moves (ninja slides, tanker hops, striker/thug/comguy/muro/elite rolls) are completely vulenrable during the whole animation.
-in Edition, all dodge moves have small invulnerable window. It adds more to the combat (IMO of course), making it more difficult to overspam AI character with constant attacks (when ninja dodges now, he has a chance of blocking some attack that can reach him as he slides away). These windows are SMALL, so if you want to exploit it, you will have to learn expert timing. Then you can take it as some sort of "parry"- instead of being hit, you shift away as enemy tries to hurt you.

Back kill fallback hurt glitch is well known, thanks. BTW I plan to leave out hurting knockdowns. It is nice idea, but I cannot fulfill all of its potential. And that partial idea,which can be composed into ONI, proved to be more annoying than useful.

About legbreaker animation - well known, thanks anyway. I will look on it in May ^_^. BTW it is weird that when I do a mistake everybody notices it (and I thank you very much, really) but when coders of the ONI did the same mistake (probably the same, because result is the same-wrong animation randomly occurs) nobody noticed it at all. Or did? Tell me if you know ^_-.

Have fun
Loser, guy who has about one month before his Maturita exams and he tries to learn Maths properly

Last edited by Loser (04/01/08 10:04)

Iritscen · 04/01/08 10:04

Loser wrote:

No, no, we are not spoiled gamers - if you can do something, enemies can do as well. That way you prove you are an Oni expert. ^_^

I agree, I didn't realize that most enemies didn't have the window, but it's only fair to give it to them.

BTW it is weird that when I do a mistake everybody notices it (and I thank you very much, really) but when coders of the ONI did the same mistake (probably the same, because result is the same-wrong animation randomly occurs) nobody noticed it at all.

Heh, I can only answer for myself here. When I joined the community at the end of last year, I had little experience with Oni. I don't think I ever finished the game, originally, and certainly had not given it a second playthrough. Coming here and seeing the work that was being done motivated me to get back into the game. So when someone such as yourself says, "Here's a mod," I jump on it and play-test it. But the truth is, I never spent any time "play-testing" Oni itself before that. So a lot of pre-existing bugs were new to me.

But basically, whenever you post something online you can expect it to get examined scrupulously. Geyser taught me that

Edit: Just had a thought. Fair is fair, as you say, Loser, so if Konoko can dodge with invulnerability, then so should an enemy. But what about the second option: neither Konoko *nor* enemies can dodge with invulnerability? That would be interesting to try. At least, I think so. I wonder if anyone else would want to try that.

Last edited by Iritscen (04/01/08 10:04)

Barneyhater · 04/14/08 20:04

[

Edit: Just had a thought. Fair is fair, as you say, Loser, so if Konoko can dodge with invulnerability, then so should an enemy. But what about the second option: neither Konoko *nor* enemies can dodge with invulnerability? That would be interesting to try. At least, I think so. I wonder if anyone else would want to try that.

This might be stupid but how about we make it a cheat ?

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