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#51 23/1/08 17:35

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Note: The only line I changed from your original code was:
from set target_string to " " to set target_string to ":"

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#52 23/1/08 18:03

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Woah, what the crap did you guys do? You're manually turning all the colons into slashes? That'll take a while. Am I missing something? You talked about using the POSIX path of function earlier, so why not use that?

Last edited by Ultimatum479 (23/1/08 18:07)


Work in progress...

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#53 23/1/08 18:10

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Just curious, how many textures does Oni have in it?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#54 23/1/08 18:15

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

I just realized I went OT in discussing the problems with the AE scripts, sorry.  Moving it back to Mac programming.

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#55 23/1/08 18:39

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

@ U479: So, your impressions on the non-obsolete Edition?

@ Iritscen: Oni can handle texture sizes up to 256x256.
Yes, that's a very promising terrain for brand new looks.
Yes, we could make an OBJ-viewer that'd run on your Macs.
No, real-time painting on 3D meshes is out of question.
You should be comfortable enough with reloading the OBJ.
Anyway, the UV stamps are quite enough for a 2D artist.
No, I never checked Ian's source, and I don't plan to.

@ Gumby:
The Edition lets you count them yourself.
The retail PC version has 2331 textures.
(not counting texture animation frames)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#56 23/1/08 19:26

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Well, it's definitely preferable. I don't mind the extended super move vulnerabilities, although the Devil Spin Kick still seems as overpowered as ever. (No wonder Brutal Konoko spams it so much in EdT's GvE vid.) Knockdown is certainly better here, although the Twister Kick against mid-air enemies is still quite likely to damage Konoko. I'll test out her full arsenal tomorrow and give you some more detailed comments.

EDIT: I fail to see the difference in throw-spamming that you mentioned, and the vulnerabilities still aren't noticeable enough for special-move-spamming not to work.

Oh, and, further edit:

geyser wrote:

BTW, I hope you don't resent the fact that we've made the Backbreaker significantly less deadly...

Its damage has been reduced? That might explain a bit, though I haven't tested it out much yet (tomorrow, again), but if you did...So, you can edit damages, eh? Mind giving the SWAT trooper forward+punch behind-the-enemy throw some actual damage?

Last edited by Ultimatum479 (23/1/08 20:18)


Work in progress...

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#57 23/1/08 21:33

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

I noticed that in going through the airport level...but I always forget to use twister kick...

Yuck, that is a lot of textures...even if it were split amongst five people...466 textures per person...plus animation frames...

Also, http://gumby.oni2.net/Videos/

I finished a better run of the first Airport level...the second one is going to be the hard part though

I think Part 1 is the best one, Part 2 isn't too bad, and Part 3 is ok, but leaves something to be desired for (ie the battle with the VDG...I was feeling lazy so I let myself get hit by it 4 times, and wasted a few hypos...) but has its good points, such as rolling past the charging Striker, and backbreaking him. Also, the part where I do a few disarms is nice looking....

I'll Youtube it soon if anyone is too lazy (or appalled at downloading three 50-70 MB videos)

EDIT: Also included is a video with all the boring parts cut out...

I just hope Alloc doesn't get mad at me uploading near half a gig of video

Last edited by Gumby (24/1/08 1:13)


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#58 24/1/08 3:31

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

I don't mind the extended super move vulnerabilities, although the Devil Spin Kick still seems as overpowered as ever. (No wonder Brutal Konoko spams it so much in EdT's GvE vid.)

Devil Spin Kick is now blockable, originally it was unblockable. It deals 10 damage if hits, 5 damage + stagger if it is blocked. It has about 10 frames vulnerable window at the beginning, allowing enemy to break the special if (s)he has a good timing and good combat prediction. It has now about 20 frames vulnerable window at the end, allowing enemy to punish the special if it was used inappropriately. In the middle part Konoko is invulnerable, because she "the king" (or queen ^_^) at that moment.

Maybe I am wrong, but it looks for me that you want specials NOT to have invulnerable parts. Once again, Oni is based on anime, not real life. Lots of attacks are anime-based, totally unusable in real life. Specials are strong attacks, meant to give the attacker significant advantage. If we disable partial invulnerability, than you can for example perform a back throw on a striker, who is doing Striker's slam special attack. For you it will maybe be correct as "realistic", but for gameplay it is nonsense. NOBODY will turn his back on you in real life, shouting some words and spinning like madman. So THAT is why specials have invulerable windows. To make them SPECIAL. Live with it or play new Indiana Jones (once it comes out), not Oni.

BUT...you definitely have a point that some "vulnerable windows" are too small to prevent special-spamming. Agreed. I will look on it.

And as for BrutalKonoko - that MELE is still in development. Yes, it abuses specials a lot, as well as it is quite  dumb when it comes to getups. You can easily kill character with this MELE just by repeated Lariats. Will be fixed when I will have time and inspiration.

Knockdown is certainly better here, although the Twister Kick against mid-air enemies is still quite likely to damage Konoko. I'll test out her full arsenal tomorrow and give you some more detailed comments.

Yes, Twister kick and also Konoko's side running kicks and situation, when you kick somebody who is near wall to his back and he is knockdowned will hurt you as well.
In case of Twister kick - can you post a video, please? It would help.
In case of running kicks - have you tried to run kick somebody in real life ? If yes, then you should know that if enemy is aware of you, he will most likely try to grab or entangle you as he collapses (yes, I have experience, I am lower level karateka. We had tried these "movie/game moves" once and most of the time opponent either dodges such an attack or when hitted, he almost everytime knocks you off balance). So you have to develop a skill in Oni how to side kick somebody and not being hitted back. I have developed it and now I can side kick almost anyone without being hitted.
kicks to the enemy's spine while he is near wall - until we develop some special wall/character collision for that, simply avoid it. Yes, it is unrealistic. Yes, it is annoying. No, it is not our mistake.

EDIT: I fail to see the difference in throw-spamming that you mentioned

Maybe that is because you have tried Konoko's lariat (running forward punch throw). There are a few throws which weren't made vulnerable, because they are then messed up. Sorry, I don't know how to work around it right now, altough I have an idea or two in the head.
And if you are talking about the fact that you can't interrupt throw, then sorry. Oni doesn't allow you to interrupt throw aka when attacker collapses, thrown one is released. No. When attacker collapses, thrown one continues in his throw animation and is hurt by nobody or Oni crash. There is NO dynamic blending in Oni (one animation is realtime influenced by another, so when influencing animation ends, influenced animation ends too) Throws were made at least partially vulerable, so you can hurt characters who are still in throw animation but either damage is already dealth or actors of the throw will not look stupid when one of them is knocked out of his throw animation.

Mind giving the SWAT trooper forward+punch behind-the-enemy throw some actual damage?

Yes, it was fixed. Now it deals 30 damage.

                                                                                         Loser

Last edited by Loser (24/1/08 3:47)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#59 24/1/08 10:11

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

geyser wrote:

No, real-time painting on 3D meshes is out of question.
You should be comfortable enough with reloading the OBJ.

I should have thought more about what I was asking, but also I may not have been clear.  Ignore what I said before.  How about this: You are editing a converted TXMP in some app, and at any time you can switch to the open OBJ Viewer and hit Refresh, and it will reload the texture you assigned to that object.  Each time you make a change to the TXMP, you save it, and hit Refresh in the Viewer, which reloads the image from disk and applies it to the object using the same UV wrap.  That's doable, right?

Anyway, the UV stamps are quite enough for a 2D artist.

I know what UV wrapping is in general from my days dabbling in 3D modeling, but I don't know how it works in Oni.  Is there an object that has stored in its data the name of a TXMP that is assigned to it, and the name of a UV wrap for the texture, which is a third object in Oni's game data?  How is that info stored in general terms?

No, I never checked Ian's source, and I don't plan to.

As long as you know how to make a viewer for the 3D models yourself, you don't need to.  That was my only concern.

Gumby wrote:

Yuck, that is a lot of textures...even if it were split amongst five people...466 textures per person...plus animation frames...

We would definitely have to prioritize.  Some textures don't actually look bad.  I never look at the textures on an Elite Striker and think, "Ew".  But face textures on those who have their eyes showing would be a priority, I think we can all agree on that.  Konoko being the first that needs improvement.  Unfortunately we are limited in how much we can improve her looks due to the handful of polygons in her face, but I still think upping the face texture res. would help.

As far as the animation frames, if we're talking about fire and smoke and the damage pulses when you hit an enemy, I actually think those hold up pretty well.  Those would be last on the list to improve -- although they probably got all those explosion and smoke effects from stock CDs that anyone can buy, so upping the res. would be a simple matter of buying a stock effects CD/DVD and simply not sizing the effects down as far as the Oni team did when they first put the effects in.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#60 24/1/08 10:18

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Sorry for the double post, but those were all replies, and this is an unrelated post.

In testing the latest Edition, I noticed something that I never did before: after firing a bullet-using weapon like my stock pistol, the bullets sometimes seem to bounce perpetually.  I tried to capture it on video but it stopped happening whenever I tried to make it happen.  In other words, the bullets only shake a little in place on the floor, but they continue to generate the "clink" sound that they make when bouncing, so clearly they are not settling for some reason.  Has the Edition changed anything that would affect the behavior of the bullets?

Sometimes Shinatama warns me about hypoes and the overpower effect, and sometimes she doesn't.  I think she always did in the original Oni, but in some versions of the Edition the message doesn't happen.  This version is one of them.

Edit: I forgot the most important thing I wanted to say.  Something in either Loser's TRAMs or the Edition is causing a crash: whenever a training droid does a grab and throws an opponent down, Oni hangs and quits.  Is anyone else seeing this happen?  I have video evidence I could upload if desired.

Last edited by Iritscen (24/1/08 12:53)


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#61 24/1/08 14:59

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

I can confirm Iritscen's droid crash.  Here is the crash log, for all you smart people that understands it. smile

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#62 24/1/08 15:59

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

I discovered it by watching the droid fight in good vs. evil.  Sometimes the game would randomly quit, and I thought it was the script's fault, but nothing was changing from one time to the next.  Only by chance did the droid catch my eye with that move right before a crash, and then later again, and that's when I made the connection.  Now I breathe a sigh of relief whenever I use that script and the droid gets KOed, because the one chance of a crash is out of the way.

Since the droids don't really fight much in the game, the likeliness of a crash during normal gameplay are pretty darn low, but still, Oni never normally crashes.

Edit: I'm not that smart, but it looks like one of the threads at crashtime (as opposed to runtime, get it?) is trying to calculate damage.  I can be more specific here and add that the crash happens at the precise moment the throwee hits the floor, that is, when damage would be done.  Hmmm.

Last edited by Iritscen (24/1/08 16:01)


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#63 24/1/08 16:17

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

after firing a bullet-using weapon like my stock pistol, the bullets sometimes seem to bounce perpetually.  I tried to capture it on video but it stopped happening whenever I tried to make it happen.  In other words, the bullets only shake a little in place on the floor, but they continue to generate the "clink" sound that they make when bouncing, so clearly they are not settling for some reason.  Has the Edition changed anything that would affect the behavior of the bullets?

If you read my monster-post(previous page) you will see that it is known bug. I have already fixed that, it will be part of my next compilation of mods.

whenever a training droid does a grab and throws an opponent down, Oni hangs and quits

Thank you Iritscen (and you too, EdT). I apologize, it was relict from my experiments. Fixed, it will be in the next compilation as well.

So far, in the next release there will be:
   modification of specials (larger vulnerable windows) - credits goes to Ultimatum479. Now game is really more challenging, special-spamming is less rewarding.

   fix of COMCOMthrow_fw_tgt - now it is not causing ONI to crash

   fix of Fury's PPP and KKK animation - these were set as invulnerable animations, which is of course weird. Were set as normal attacks.

   particle dodge on mad bomber's explosion - now AIs attempt to run from mad bomber to safe distance as countdown starts. Looks nice, it is little buggy but overall OK.

   fix of casing - shells from w1_tap and w2_sap now stay on the ground forever. Clinking was fixed. Shells have added ability to bounce off characters, it is nice eye-candy. BTW for w1_tap I will need new texture. Is there someone willing to do it ??? If yes, I will specialize what I need.

Looks like that is all. Release will be this Friday or Saturday (no warranty, tough).

                                                                                                                                 Loser

Last edited by Loser (24/1/08 16:18)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#64 24/1/08 20:33

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Loser: How do you do it?

I looked at TRAMREDCOMcomb_p_p_p.oni with a hex editor and it just a jumble of numbers and letters to me! hmm

How did you want to change the texture of w1_tap?

attachment.php?item=202&download=1

Last edited by EdT (24/1/08 20:33)

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#65 24/1/08 22:04

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Been playing around with it. Still don't like knockdowns. (-.-) They make stair combat even more annoying than it normally is, create freakish chain reactions that just don't make any sense (multiple times now I've hit enemies and watched in shock as they knocked down others who knocked down others who knocked me down), and still make lots of moves become far less usable than they should be (Twister Kicks, running kicks and body slams with Elite Strikers, etc).


Work in progress...

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#66 24/1/08 23:22

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Is there any way you could make the legs of the Elite Stikers vulnerable when they are doing that charge move (whatever it is called). Yes, it is a special, but I always have the instinct to try and kick\slide the legs out from under him...which means I always get knocked flat on my ass...


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#67 25/1/08 6:48

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

The Cannonball Roll? Nah, just get behind 'em and break their miserable backs.


Work in progress...

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#68 25/1/08 11:17

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

particle dodge on mad bomber's explosion - now AIs attempt to run from mad bomber to safe distance as countdown starts. Looks nice, it is little buggy but overall OK.

Nice.  But that means one of my favorite moves will work less often, which is taking out the mad bomber and letting him take out his friends.  I can live with that, though, because not running away from a guy who's got a beeping bomb is pretty dumb AI.  I'd like to see this.

fix of casing - shells from w1_tap and w2_sap now stay on the ground forever. Clinking was fixed. Shells have added ability to bounce off characters, it is nice eye-candy. BTW for w1_tap I will need new texture. Is there someone willing to do it ??? If yes, I will specialize what I need.

I am not sure what w1_tap is, but if w2_sap is the standard bullet casing that they rendered rotating through 360°, then I could certainly do something like that.  What are you looking for specifically?


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#69 25/1/08 12:13

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

For your reference:
Campbell Equalizer    w1_tap   
Hughes Black Adder    w2_sap   
Plasma Rifle    w3_phr   
Phase Stream Projector    w4_psm   
Super Ball Gun    w5_sbg   
Van de Graaff Pistol    w6_vdg   
Scram Cannon    w7_scc   
Mercury Bow    w8_mbo   
Screaming Cannon    w9_scr   
Homing Red Balls     w10_sni   
Wave Motion Cannon    w11_ba1

Last edited by EdT (25/1/08 12:14)

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#70 25/1/08 13:12

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

So, the problem is that the bullet casings look the same, then?  How about I post some pictures of casings and someone tell me which one to model in 3D.  These suckers are easy-peasy.

[Edit: nvrmnd]

Or do you have something specific you're looking for?  Since the weapons are fictional, I don't have much to go by.

Last edited by Iritscen (28/1/08 9:50)


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#71 25/1/08 19:05

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Ultimatum479 wrote:

The Cannonball Roll? Nah, just get behind 'em and break their miserable backs.

Cannonball Roll? They are still on thier feet though...


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#72 25/1/08 21:24

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

Oh, the spinning punch thing? Dunno the name of that either. You mean the Elite Striker (release-crouch)+punch move? It's slow enough that you can still do a Backbreaker, but, yes, it's a bit overpowered.


Work in progress...

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#73 25/1/08 21:34

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

No, the release crouch and kick move. Though the crouch punch move needs to be adjusted too IMO


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#74 25/1/08 21:51

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 29/8/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

...Crouch and kick, yes, that's what I thought the first time, but you said no. (-.-)


Work in progress...

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#75 26/1/08 11:28

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Anniversary Edition Preview

RELEASE
I apologize for being so late, but we had series of small blackouts here. Bad for PC. -_-

HERE you can download TRAM changes, version 1.02. Contains all previous changes + new ones (see changelog for tech info about those new).

HERE is pack of changes for some PAR3 files:
-mad bomber countdown now has particle dodge, so AIs sometimes run away from dead mad bomber before he explodes. Sometimes not, it is  an issue of particle dodge. Also AIs now can "hear" explosion (added impact effect)
-fixed w1/2 casing. Cases now don't "clink" on the ground. Also cases now bounce off from characters (originally, they flew through characters).
And, (for geyser ^_^) cases now fade after five minutes.

Those TXMPs are here just for those who will download this as their first PAR3 mod. It changes appearance of case textures, disables rotation.

Due to the interaction case-character, w1_tap.ONWC had to be modified. I beg anyone (EdT, Iritscen) to carefully observe new w1_tap while shooting and then please create texture (256x256 if possible ^_^) which has correctly placed hole for cases. It should be now placed somewhere on the right top corner of the weapon (originally it is on the right side). Thank you very much.

For Gumby and Ultimatum479: I can't make character half untouchable. So sorry, but no sweeps for ELICOMkick/punch_heavy. It is a pity, I know, but if I allow character to be hurtable in animation, you can also grab it. And these are specials, so... simply, this is their advantage. You can't interrupt them in the middle. With new adjustment of specials, there are larger vulnerable windows at the beginning(usually about 12+ frames) and at the end (usually about 20+ frames) of special attack animation. Use those.

For Iritscen: 3D model of bullet case would be great, but I have no option how to import it into Oni. So, sorry but thank you for your attitude. ^_-

Enjoy,

                                                                                                                                            Loser

Last edited by Loser (26/1/08 11:41)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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