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#26 01/28/08 15:01

Your_Mom
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 01/31/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Yea, fact should be separated from speculation.


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#27 01/28/08 15:01

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Wikipedia puts non-factual elements at the bottom of a subject's page under its own header, which what I'm referring to doing with the Oni wiki.  Just to be clear.  I don't think we want multiple pages, some with speculation, some with fact, on the same topic.

---
By the way, I returned to the wiki today and started rewriting things.  Here's some hard info I'm missing:
- names of weapons (under http://wiki.oni2.net/Gameplay).  Hit "Edit" and look for the comment that says "insert weapon list here".  You could fill in characteristics too and really make my day, but right now it's the names/serial numbers/whatever for each weapon that I lack.
- http://wiki.oni2.net/Chapters is really messed up.  There's convenient links to summaries of each chapter, with nothing on them. Anyone who knows the story well can have at it, but notice first the overall summary right on that page.  You could just break that up into the Chapters where each fact is revealed, along with a brief summary of what Konoko physically does in that level from start to finish.  At least provide a starting point from which someone can embellish.
- someone who has the PS2 version can start this page: http://wiki.oni2.net/w/index.php?title= … ction=edit
(just list any gameplay differences or whatever that you know is different)


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#28 01/28/08 17:01

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 01/14/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

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#29 01/28/08 18:01

Ultimatum479
Member
Registered: 08/29/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Oh, that's BS. Virtually the entire "article" on Shinatama is speculation and no one seems to care.

Last edited by Ultimatum479 (01/28/08 18:01)


Work in progress...

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#30 01/28/08 21:01

ItemfinderDeluxe
Member
From: Canberra, Australia
Registered: 11/12/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

That's because no one has gotten around to doing up a proper page on most of the wiki. Konoko's page is probably the most 'complete', but even that is pushing it.


TCTF SWAT: Striker, you're under arrest.
Striker: H4h, y0u c4n'7 570p m3!!!
TCTF SWAT: Damn it, learn to spell!!!
CURRENT PROJECT - 'Nemesis' V1.0 Released

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#31 01/29/08 09:01

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Thanks to paradox for the weapons info.

Can somebody please vote on the main page proposal? I tried to order things better and remove redundancy, but if nobody likes it then just say so, so I can take the message off the top of the Main Page.

And U479, no one's stopping you from putting all that Shinatama speculation in a second section that's appropriately titled.  The first section would simply tell us the facts we know about her from the game, which should be a short write-up.


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#32 01/29/08 10:01

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

I don't know when I'll be able to translate the Russian stuff. It's a bit ironic how the wiki is becoming popular right when I have the least time to spend on it smile

The wiki's nature is not factual. Especially as far as the storyline is concerned, the vast amounts of understatement in the original Oni call for "Added value" (which is a broader and less pejorative term for "Speculation"). You can see such "Added value" entries all around the character/entity pages: http://wiki.oni2.net/Names

Usually, I list the Facts (mostly verbatim quotes) at the very top, and then the "Added value" section, with name etymology (if any) coming first, and then random consideration in a roughly logical order (if they depend on each other). Same for conflicting theories: just dump them in Added_value, or in Talk:Shinatama if you want people to proofread or wikify your stuff first.

EDIT:
"U479, no one's stopping you from putting all that Shinatama speculation in a second section that's appropriately titled."
Correct. U479, I remember you said Gamespot's walkthrough was BS, too, but then never pointed out actual mistakes.
It's safe to assume that if no one seems to care about an incomplete or inaccurate page, you are Mankind's only hope.
BTW, that "Added value" about Shinatama IS a second section already. It's just that I had left the Facts section empty.

EDIT 2:
" http://wiki.oni2.net/Chapters is really messed up." It's not. It's supposed to be inviting. I set it up that way for you guys.
I agree that Chapters (and character pages) are perhaps the pages of the wiki that need (y)our attention with top priority.

EDIT 3:
"- someone who has the PS2 version can start this page: http://wiki.oni2.net/w/index.php?title= … ction=edit
(just list any gameplay differences or whatever that you know is different)"
No one with a PS2 was ever able to confirm any difference in game content.
Note that there is no content difference between PC and Mac versions, either.
Aside from the localized speech and text, the binaries are largely identical...
Then there are just a few differences due to texture compression here and there.
And the issues with the engine, of course (missing scripting stuff, controls, etc).
With the PS2 version, that issue of "differences" is nothing short of irrelevant.
I mean, it's not even moddable, so at the end of the day: who gives a blam?

Last edited by geyser (01/29/08 10:01)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#33 01/29/08 10:01

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Yeah, the "developer" sections, like the OBD pages, are very thorough, which makes sense since you needed that info to be available to everyone who was modding.  I still want to fill in some missing bits in the programming terminology, but I like how you approach the subject from a newbie's perspective, not requiring them to know programming in order to learn BSL.

I shouldn't have said "messed up", it's just that there's that huge unindented blurb on that page that needs to be wrestled into shape.

But getting back to the character pages, it looks like we have nothing devoted to:
Dr. Kerr
Musashi Manufacturing
Vago Biotech
Vansam City
Phoenix

but all of these are (red)linked to from Names.

Edit: So, geyser, are you saying there's no need for a PC vs. PS2 page after all?

Last edited by Iritscen (01/29/08 11:01)


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#34 01/30/08 02:01

VidBoi7
Member
Registered: 12/21/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Sorry about my sloth. I'll be posting the updates once I clear my plate of some schoolwork.

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#35 02/15/08 14:02

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

As an update (bump!) I have written a stub about Musashi (they make doors, what do you want from me? :-), a stub about Vago, and nothing about Vansam City or Phoenix.

I have written blurbs for each Chapter based on the anonymous write-up geyser first placed there, with Added Value a la geyser.  I'm most happy with http://wiki.oni2.net/Chapters/12.  You all might see inaccuracies that you can fix in these write-ups, though, so don't hesitate to contribute.

Also, poor Dr. Kerr still has no article.

Last edited by Iritscen (02/15/08 14:02)


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#36 02/16/08 01:02

ItemfinderDeluxe
Member
From: Canberra, Australia
Registered: 11/12/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

I'm sorry 'bout not finishing any of the Character pages, but preparing for Uni has me running around like a headless chicken. Once I get into a stable routine I'll get back to work on it.


TCTF SWAT: Striker, you're under arrest.
Striker: H4h, y0u c4n'7 570p m3!!!
TCTF SWAT: Damn it, learn to spell!!!
CURRENT PROJECT - 'Nemesis' V1.0 Released

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#37 02/20/08 04:02

Ghalion
Member
Registered: 02/18/08

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

I've just barely started getting involved with oni once again so the amount of info and progress from this community to me is honestly quite overwhelming. I mean I probably don't even have the time to even TRY the stuff made before this anniversary edition gets released, let alone participate in its production or development. Yet on the same token, the amount of playtime I have from this game is more from YOUR work than bungie's for crying out loud, so I feel guilty in not trying to participate, even on a small level. Yet I fear that if I try, I'll just have done something that was already done that I am just unaware of (and most likely my own attempt will be of much less quality due to my inexperience no doubt).

I DO have to agree to though (and no offense!) is that the English I see on these pages is almost as painful as my own habit of rambling on and on.

I would feel much more comfortable getting better aquainted with oni, the mods, the tools, and even the community before I begin to attempt participating in it, but if there are any requests (bear in mind my talent as a modder is nearly 0. The only thing I can do is follow directions fairly well), I'll be sure to try and help.

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#38 02/26/08 02:02

EL
Member
From: Simi Valley, CA
Registered: 01/25/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

paradox-01 wrote:

Hi folks, there are some comments which I would like to see translated. smile

Spanish speakers can have a look HERE and HERE.

The first is a little weird.

"bienn un fan art sorry se me seco el cerebroooo solo dire me gusta el kof de ahi pues algun otro juegoo de peleaaa larga vidaaa al guiltyy gear hahahahahaha animoooooo"

Translated: Well... a fan art. Sorry, nothing comes to mind except to say I like KOF (King of Fighters). So that and any other fighting game. Long live Guilty Gear! Hahaha energy!

That's actually more Spanglish than Spanish. hmm

geyser wrote:

"- someone who has the PS2 version can start this page: http://wiki.oni2.net/w/index.php?title= … ction=edit
(just list any gameplay differences or whatever that you know is different)"
No one with a PS2 was ever able to confirm any difference in game content.
Note that there is no content difference between PC and Mac versions, either.
Aside from the localized speech and text, the binaries are largely identical...
Then there are just a few differences due to texture compression here and there.
And the issues with the engine, of course (missing scripting stuff, controls, etc).
With the PS2 version, that issue of "differences" is nothing short of irrelevant.
I mean, it's not even moddable, so at the end of the day: who gives a blam?

I don't know if this is a glitch or not or if it's exclusive to the PS2 version. In the level Dream Diver there was a door that wouldn't open if I was a different character. (or maybe just Shinatama) Normally the door would open after defeating a few guards but this one stayed shut. Since those tiny guards are hard to see I ran around for a while hoping to find anyone I missed.  It was only after restarting the level and playing as Konoko did the door open.

Last edited by EL (02/26/08 03:02)


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#39 03/06/08 00:03

VidBoi7
Member
Registered: 12/21/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Whoa.
@_@

Ahem. Sorry for not being here...a month? Longer?
Anyways, the short of it: Douchebag art teacher, multiple projects due at the same time. Sorry I'm draggin' my feet. >>;;

Feel free to edit the wiki without me. Sorry.

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#40 03/06/08 01:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Little note from the admins: OniGalore has been upgraded to Mediawiki 1.11; the issue with PNG scaling has been fixed.
Now we'll set up the AE namespace and maybe add a few useful extensions (parsing of logical expressions and such)...


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#41 03/06/08 07:03

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

That's great to hear.  Also, I was able to add that last wiki stat to my user page that wasn't working before, NUMBEROFEDITS (it's on the official Statistics page too now).  Not that anyone else cares.

BTW, another thing that anyone can start writing articles for: the enemy types in Oni.  I guess just explaining what they do and referencing any consoles that tell us about them (such as the one that explains that Tankers are SLDs), what moves they have (or linking to somewhere that lists that already), and definitely adding a couple pics of each kind to their page (or maybe a pic of each color of that enemy).  If you look at http://wiki.oni2.net/Special:Wantedpages, you'll see which names to use for the pages ("Tanker", "Ninja", etc.).  Probably there should be a main page that lists all enemies and then links to the separate pages for each one.  Do you have any thoughts on this, geyser?  Should we make a page that lists every character, that links to their individual pages, or should we just list enemy types?

My vacation has turned out to be quite busy, so I've had little time for Oni, but soon I'll be back in the swing of things and able to help out myself.


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#42 03/06/08 12:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

I would group the Furies, Elites and Strikers on the same page. I wouldn't go so far as to put Comguys on the same page as Ninja though smile
And of course if the TCTF troops and thugs count as enemies that makes things a bit more complicated. Don't try to rationalize it right now.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#43 03/06/08 21:03

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

You would group the Furies, Elites and Strikers together for what reason?  I just want to understand your thought there.  Here's what I'm thinking, looking ahead: eventually, I think we should have a page for each enemy/ally type, yes, including TCTF.  It wouldn't draw a distinction between friend and foe (since those roles can change, anyway), but we would simply detail what we could about each type ("type" meaning, say, Striker, and then having on that page the different colored Strikers, maybe including the Elites).  Then I'd have a page for all Furies, one for all Tankers, etc.

Think about it this way: if we are adding pics of each enemy type (which I think is necessary if we're to help the user figure out which type he's reading about -- particularly for the colorblind among us, where simply saying "Green Striker" is largely meaningless), then a page would get cluttered if it had more than one "type".  But I don't feel so strongly about it that I will argue further over this.  I just wanted to state my thoughts clearly (was that clear?  I'm exhausted and can't tell).  Do you still hold your same opinion on this, geyser, having read what I had to say?


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#44 03/07/08 07:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

No, it wasn't clear. Take some rest and try again smile
As for the Furies, they're just Female Strikers to me.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#45 03/07/08 15:03

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

*goes and rests* Okay, take two:

My proposal is to have a page for each enemy.  Right now the redlinks are for pages with titles such as Tanker, Ninja, Striker... not that we have to go along with that.  But I thought that made sense.  One page will have all the kinds of Tanker, one page for Ninjas, etc.  I was saying that I didn't want to group enemies like Furies and Strikers that have radically different appearances.  I don't think most people think of Furies as Strikers, even if they are technically classified as such somewhere.

And if we group Furies, Strikers, and Elite Strikers together on one page, what about, say, Tankers?  Aren't they just going to be on their own lonely little page?  And the same for Comguys?  My approach is always all-or-nothing, so here my inclination is to have only separate pages, or only groups of enemies on a page.  If there were "classes" of enemies that encompassed different specific types, like a class that describes all Strikers and Furies, I would say, Let's make a page for each class, but as it is, I think that the enemies are pretty distinct and should get their own page.  On each page, of course, is where we break it down to color/rank, so the Striker page would have all colors of Striker, etc.


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#46 03/07/08 16:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

"My approach is always all-or-nothing" Well, that's a wrong approach. Take some more rest. The last thing we need now is a wiki-fight.

"On each page, of course, is where we break it down to color/rank" If that's all you want to do, there's no point in making those at all...

Last edited by geyser (03/07/08 16:03)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#47 03/07/08 19:03

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Well, I'm sounding out my idea here so we *don't* have a wiki-fight.

This time I think it's your post that's unclear.  "If that's all you want to do, there's no point in making those at all..."  I'm not trying to be dense, but that sentence really doesn't make sense to me at all.


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#48 03/07/08 19:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Actually, what you said up there is "I don't feel so strongly about it that I will argue further over this" but I guess I can't hold you to it smile

What I meant is there's no point in making a page about Strikers that only says

there are three kinds of Strikers: red, blue... and the other ones, the ones everybody keeps calling green even though they're not, and... well, yeah, that's pretty much it... oh, and they have that combo called the Striker Slam!

and then another one about the Furies with about the same content, and then one about the Elites...
Sure, you can make such a page and I can make such a page too, but I'd certainly wait a little bit.
What I dislike the most about stubs is that they don't work as reminders, as opposed to "redlinks".
We can fix all the redlinks now with boring mini-pages or we can grind out content and design first.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#49 03/07/08 21:03

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

Okay, I see what you mean.  There's not THAT much to say about just Strikers.  Okay, but how do we group them?  Maybe just all Syndies on one page, all TCTF on another?

I agree with you about stubs, incidentally.  WP is constantly harassing stub pages with tags and categories and they don't really get filled in because no one has anything more to say about them.

(Also... the basic Striker isn't green?)


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#50 03/07/08 22:03

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: More Involved (How You Can Be, With The Wiki)

One reason stubs don't get filled in is that they're easily overlooked by editors...
Only a curious/zealous editor will follow links upon a casual inspection of a page.
Red links, on the contrary, can trigger notes to self and "private" brainstorming.
Once the design and content of an actual "article" is ready, you can "publish" it.

I think the Tankers, Comguys and Ninjas have a potential of their own. Pending.
As for the Female/Elite/plain Strikers, I consider all of them as Muro's "Strikers".
They are the bunch of maniacs federated by nihilism or whatever Muro preaches.
Tankers are not human. Ninjas, even if human, seem not to be Muro's followers.
As for Comguys, there's a prominent one who suggests how important they are.
(the one who hangs out with Muro, and coordinates the attack on the TCTF HQ)

As for the TCTF, their hierarchy is more straightforward, so yeah, I'd group them.

Last edited by geyser (03/07/08 22:03)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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