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#26 7/1/08 19:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

@ Iritscen:
1. We'll have to do some more checking before we can be sure, I'm afraid.
2. I'll beef up the damage, but I still don't want to add explosive dust. DIY smile
6. The AI have always used those combos on their own. Sorry to disappoint.
12. I'm not sure when I'll release the new characters. This week will be busy.

Last edited by geyser (7/1/08 19:21)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#27 8/1/08 14:45

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

geyser: I noticed on the wiki that the damage from glass_shard was set to 0x00000040, in the Edition it is 0x00000041.  What would be the values for greater damage?

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#28 10/1/08 13:27

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

EDITED
HERE you (geyser or EdT) can download RAR file with complete TRAM changes. It contains TRAM changes which are described in the changelog (see attachment).

/EDITED
About changes:
Basically, throws are changed. Now you are NOT invulnerable for the whole anim (with a few exceptions), so throwing in crowd is no longer safe.

Next, some fixes were made (TCTCOMthrow_bk_tgt now deals damage (30), MUTCOMtaunt1 now has a sound, NINCOMteleport_in is much shorter).

Blownups and knockdowns were checked and adjusted. Knockdown by "kicked victim" is now rare, nut still it is here.

Lots of powerful attacks and specials were changed, usually they blockstun or stagger you if you try to block them. There are still few totally unblockable attacks, but I have tried to reduce their amount as they are no fun to play with or aganist.

Escape moves were modded, so now everybody has same chance to dodge attack (originally, Konoko had bigger chance as her escape TRAMs were only ones with small "unblockable window")

I think it is all. Overall, game is now swifter, no more stand-one-aganist-other-and-block. Now last parts of combos stagger or stun you, so you have to dodge or you are in trouble.

BIG PITY is that I didn't manage to fix Ninja's infinite rave kicks combo. But it seems that bug is this: those kicks are so fast, that they combo hit you (no chance to escape) even if you have zeroed amount of frames for which you should be in hit anim if these kicks hit you.



HAVE FUN, MATES !!!

P.S: And please, forgive me, but I have no strenght left to split it and select those anims...
                                                                                                                                        Loser, who IS loser because he can't finish his own work.

Last edited by Loser (19/1/08 6:18)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#29 10/1/08 13:49

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Interesting, I look forward to trying this.  I guess I have to wait for geyser or EdT to present just the changed files to be recombined into level 0, since I don't even know what the heck that means, and I just wrote it smile


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#30 10/1/08 16:55

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Loser, THANK YOU!!!
I'll test it out later today.

Iritiscen: Edition splits the dat, raw and sep files, into individual files, that's why the level0 folder has about 12,000 files.
To recombine means to take the individual files and combine them back to the dat, raw and sep files. (Like what you did with the dust hack)

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#31 10/1/08 18:08

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

So...whats the easiest way to install the rar+exe?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#32 10/1/08 20:18

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Here's Loser's TRAM changes. 

There are 211 files. According to his changelog some items had no changes, but I included them anyways.
Why? Because I used search to get the files by name and didn't take the time to go through and remove the ones with no changes. tongue

http://edt.oni2.net/OniSplit/LoserTRAM.zip

Last edited by EdT (10/1/08 20:23)

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#33 10/1/08 20:40

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

First off, I'll use the "0xDEADBEEF" notation only for Big Endian here.
And I'll write the Little Endian permutation as "EF BE AD DE" (no 0x).
I encourage you to adopt the same notation whenever you're ready.

geyser: I noticed on the wiki that the damage from glass_shard was set to 0x00000040, in the Edition it is 0x00000041.  What would be the values for greater damage?

Short answer: 0x40000000 (00 00 00 40) is 4 times smaller than 0x41000000 (00 00 00 41).

Long answer: let's have a little seminar about the IEEE float format, shall we?

Suppose you look at the 4-byte field (float) that looks like 00 00 00 41 in hex view.
Oni binaries are in Little Endian, meaning that the 4 bytes of the field are swapped.
In Big Endian, with the four bytes swapped back into place, you'll get: 0x40000000.
This is the proper way to describe the data field: 32 bits listed as hex, right-to-left.
(thus, the bit of lowest weight is this one 0x00000001; the highest is: 0x80000000)

Now, what do all 32 bits stand for? Well, there are 3 groups on bits in an IEEE float.

First (or last, if you wish), the highest bit of all is the sign (+/-) of the float number.
So if you know that 0x3F800000 is 1.0, you can be sure that 0xBF800000 is -1.0
(in Little Endian, they will appear as 00 00 80 3F and 00 00 80 BF, respectively)

Now for the hard bits: (see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_float )
The lowest 23 bits (these: 0x007FFFFF) correspond to the mantissa of the float.
And, the intermediate 8 bits (these: 0x7F800000) correspond to the exponent.
So, in terms of bits you have: "SEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"
(here, each character represents one of the 32 bits, which can be either 0 or 1)
The actual mantissa is "1.MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM" in binary notation
(here, "1.1000..." means one and a half, "1.0100..." means one and an eighth, etc)
Simply put, the mantissa here represents any multiple of (1/2^23) between 1 and 2.
The exponent is used to shift that, to represent, e.g., numbers between 32 and 64.
(the mantissa is multiplied with the "exponenth" power of 2: e.g., 1, 4, 1024, 1/256)
The actual exponent is not "EEEEEEEE" but "EEEEEEEE"-127 (to allow for both signs)

Now for a few examples:
Let's say we want to represent the number 7: it is between the number 4 and 8.
Actually, 7 is equal to 4 times "1 and a half and a quarter", so 4 times "1.1100..."
So we know that, for 7, the 23 mantissa bits will be "11000000000000000000000"
As for the exponent: our multiplier 4 is 2 squared, so we need the exponent 2.
We know "01111111"=127 gives the exponent 0, so we'll need "10000001"
Finally, with the sign bit, we have: "01000000111000000000000000000000"
If we want it in hex, this becomes: 0x40E00000 or (byte-swapped) 00 00 E0 40.

As another example, let's see you interpret 0x42280000 (00 00 28 42) on your own.

P.S. The value of that float is not the only difference between the Edition (or Demoni) and this: http://wiki.oni2.net/ONK:Glass#Deadly_glass
In the wiki tutorial, we replaced the hit_char event "Die" with "Damage Char", whereas in the releases, we added "Damage Char" as an extra.
I'm not sure if I changed anything else or why the glass would do less harm if I didn't change anything except for the 4 times larger "damage".
IIRC, the larger "damage" is, the more it hurts. I just might check that and "fix" the Edition's glass some time next week, in time for the D-day.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#34 10/1/08 21:30

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Won't the AI be trained to block when its not supposed to now?

Also, why dont you make the ninja kicks as knockdown combo?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#35 10/1/08 22:56

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

geyser: Ouch... my head hurts... smile
Thanks for the lesson.

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#36 10/1/08 23:43

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Gumby: If I understand you correctly, you say that AI should now more dodge and less block. Sorry, but I really don't have the mood right now to adjust MELE rofiles, changing all MELE's blocking and dodging ability. Not for the week or two ^_^.

Ninjas have been blessed with Lightning stomp which now hurts also crouching and lying enemies. It also hurts sooner ( even on the way up!). Lightning stomp can be blocked only if you are standing, and still will deal 1/2 of its damage (10 damage) and heavy stagger to you.
Next their dodge now have small invulnerable window (like Konoko's), so they are harder to hit as they tend to dodge quite a lot.
So... what doyou want more ^_^. His triple kick combo seems to be fast but weak (no big swings, rather three quick leg jabs) so no need for stun, stagger or knockdown.

Oh, and have you checked Mukade's teleporting? It is now much faster. You can still do the lariat-as-he-teleports strategy, but now it is way harder.

                                                                                                                                Loser

P.S.: foe everybody: Do you like new knockdown damage? Or do you think it starts to hurt too late ?


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#37 11/1/08 10:49

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

@ EdT: "Thanks for the lesson" - wrong answer, dude wink
@ Loser: You did an awesome job, apparently, but I won't be able to test until next week. I might try to "editionize" your stuff (split up your level0 and generate patches for the files that you say you modded). Then I can get more people to test that thing over the next few days, especially the Russians. Then some time during the next week, we'll finalize the features depending on the feedback so far.

I think you did a very useful thing. We can always beef up the enemy AI later, but it was more urgent to fix the fundamental bugs that make some moves suck.
It's really an awesome first step, and it's all the more amazing if it makes some or most unmodded enemies or friends tougher - without any AI upgrade at all.
As for the upgraded MELE and CMBT - replacing originals would have an immediate global effect, which is cool but also risky, and will take literally ages to test.
On the other hand, one can add new ones, e.g., Brutal Konoko, or Brutal Muro, or Brutal Striker, or Rugby Boy/Girl - taking advantage of them for specific levels.
I think I will only use Brutal Konoko for a few Very Special Characters, because I can't afford large-scale OBJC modding right now. Dunno about Rugby/OTA yet...

More, later. This week is crazy.

Last edited by geyser (11/1/08 10:55)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#38 11/1/08 11:35

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

geyser: Well if I use a this: http://www.rit.edu/~meseec/eecc250-wint … hex32.html
its easy to get the answer smile Which is 42. Trying to do it own, makes my head hurt.

I already extracted the changed TRAM files and posted them. See above.
Haven't had time to fully test them, but I did notice that the AI dodges much better.

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#39 11/1/08 12:28

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

@ EdT: No, the 42 thing is not the answer I expected either. You know how I feel about tutorials falling away into oblivion. The float format deserves a wiki-entry.
But you also know that I'd hate to be the one who creates the OBD:Float page, because that would only go to show that no one really gives a blam about tutorials.

"I already extracted the changed TRAM files and posted them. See above." I appreciate that, but I'll probably double-check myself before generating the deltas.

Last edited by geyser (11/1/08 12:33)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#40 12/1/08 10:05

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

HERE you can download *.oni patches (for OniSplit) which contain "patch01" for my 211 anims modification. Basically, there are a few which were again checked and modified (RIFle attacks now deal very small damage, I realized that due to their unblockability they were too abuse-firendly) and bunch of new ones. This is my last TRAM modification which is that big. Why? Because:

1) IMO there is nothing to change now
2) I am tired as "XYZ"!!! I've spent whole day glued to the PC !

But...this time even I provided patches, not whole level files. ^_^

Have fun, and I am going to do my schoolwork (finally).
Changelog is included in attachment.

                                                                                                                      Loser

P.S.: This time it was  125 TRAMs. ^_^

Last edited by Loser (12/1/08 10:07)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#41 14/1/08 9:57

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Awesome, man.  I pretty thoroughly tested your first TRAM release over the weekend, and here are my thoughts:

I found nothing that I disliked; all the changes make sense.  You are less likely to get away with combo-spamming, which is more realistic.  It requires more careful judgment to know when a combo is worth the risk, or when you should just alternate with quick jabs and blocks like real-life martial arts.  Nevertheless, all the combos I tested are still doable, just harder.  This makes landing a Sledgehammer Heel all the more satisfying.  *CRACK*

I can't remember ever having a Striker perform a stepping disarm on me before!  It was scary but impressive.  Also, could Konoko always reverse suplex?  'Cause I accidentally picked a guy up, bent backwards and smashed him into the ground.  Did I just never know about that move?

This was weird: when entering the final area in Ch. 1, where one baddie is guarding a truck with an energy rifle, he actually saw me as I entered the area and fought the worker, and ran at me, shooting.  I wondered why that happened, and if it was maybe a side effect of the Edition, and not the modded TRAMs, but I have been through that area so many times in the original Oni and the latest Edition version, and that never happened before!

Finally, these changes definitely raise the difficulty of the game; they're not for newbies.  I agree with geyser that limited use of these mods makes sense in the Edition.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#42 14/1/08 10:04

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Also, here are some additional thoughts on geyser's latest Edition (Good Resolutions):

You definitely need to fix the cutscene timing before the final release, but I think you already know that.

Is there any way to use what I believe are unused TXMP talking heads?  I'm referring to 28705-CIV1, 28706-CIV2, 28707-CIV3, 29248-GRIFconcerned, and 29814-KERRsomber.  I don't remember ever seeing those in-game.

Did you add 30096-ninjabot2.TXMP to the .dat file, geyser?  Also, I fought the Ninjabot in the level with the electricity arcing around, and it was pretty scary, what with the pool of nasty stuff on all sides.  But fun.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#43 14/1/08 19:01

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Iritscen: thanks a lot for the thorough testing. Since we can't use different TRAM on different difficulty levels, there will be no "limited use". We'll do it all.
You can always play on Easy to have weaker enemies and a tougher Konoko. As for the Hard difficulty, we'll beef it up even more, but some other time.

"I accidentally picked a guy up, bent backwards and smashed him into the ground.  Did I just never know about that move?" It has always been there.
"I can't remember ever having a Striker perform a stepping disarm on me before!  It was scary but impressive." Are you sure you meant "stepping"?
"one baddie is guarding a truck with an energy rifle, he actually saw me as I entered the area and fought the worker" Not due to the Edition, sorry wink

Concerning the cutscenes: how about a complete list of the buggy places caused by the dash hack, guys?

Talking heads ought to be used in custom scripts. I can't afford to script single-player missions right now.

The green ninjabots in chapter 8 is an unintended "cameo", pretty much like the mini-strikers used to be.
I guess I ought to fix it, because otherwise it gives the ninjas=robots theory too much ingame "evidence".


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#44 15/1/08 6:39

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Here are Loser's TRAM hacks in the most compact form.

As you can see, the "patches" I supply are not .oni files.
They are "deltas" generated from old and new .oni files.
For minor changes they typically take up about 100 B.
After checking, there seem to be 314 of such anims.
So together they take about 30 kB without packing.
The ZIP was very ineffective (as large as 60 kB).
So I use TGZ, which I'm quite happy with (13 kB).
Note that TGZ is the same format as the one here:
http://svn.chrilly.net/listing.php?repname=Oni2

Re:Good to know that the anims were thoroughly tested.
I'll integrate them into a sorta release tonight, hopefully.

Last edited by geyser (15/1/08 6:40)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#45 15/1/08 9:49

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Since we can't use different TRAM on different difficulty levels, there will be no "limited use". We'll do it all.
You can always play on Easy to have weaker enemies and a tougher Konoko. As for the Hard difficulty, we'll beef it up even more, but some other time.

Oh, okay.  I thought you said before you would limit the use of the new TRAMs.  Okay, I guess I misunderstood.  I guess "Easy" is always an option (I forgot there was a difficulty setting! I always just played on Normal!).  Combat is still not that insanely hard that someone can't beat the game for the first time with the new TRAMs, so that's fine.

"I accidentally picked a guy up, bent backwards and smashed him into the ground.  Did I just never know about that move?" It has always been there.

Yeah, you're right, I realized that later.

"I can't remember ever having a Striker perform a stepping disarm on me before!  It was scary but impressive." Are you sure you meant "stepping"?

No... I'm not.  I am a little confused, as always.  There was definitely a disarming that I didn't recall seeing before, but I rarely leave my weapon armed when in melee combat, so perhaps it's not new.

"one baddie is guarding a truck with an energy rifle, he actually saw me as I entered the area"

I haven't gotten this to repeat, so I'm going to assume that when I fired at the worker close by, some stray bullets went by the guard and alerted him.  It's the only possibility that makes sense.

Concerning the cutscenes: how about a complete list of the buggy places caused by the dash hack, guys?

Ugh.  Is that going to help you, though?  Don't you need to carefully adjust the timing of the running in each scene to fix the problem?  I think that would require you to check each cutscene yourself anyway.  I mean, every cutscene that has a character running, now has them dashing, so all those cutscenes have issues.  The camera tracks too slow, they run past their marks, they fall off of ramps, etc.  So if you looked in the .bsls, you could just search for the run command to find the problem spots... right?  I am not that familiar with the scripts, but I would think that would be the solution.

Talking heads ought to be used in custom scripts.

I thought it might be easy to stick a command in somewhere in an existing dialogue cutscene to show one of those talking heads.  Oh well, not a big deal, obviously.

The green ninjabots in chapter 8 is an unintended "cameo", pretty much like the mini-strikers used to be.

Oh.  I only encountered one, though, the others were all normal reds (I think).


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#46 19/1/08 3:13

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

HERE is set of enhancements for ONI 7th AE. No changelog this time.

Changes for posted files are:
ONCCs:
modified turning speed - just a few ONCCs
midified getup timer - overall AIs getup faster
modified general AI options - gunfire dodging for everyone, backfire for combat characters
modified start of gunfire dodging - AIs now dodge immediately (as human does)
modified GO_for_gun and Running_pickup - it varies, overall I think it is better now
modified health - combat characters beefed up a bit (but no 200 health brown strikers), civillians and scientists now have lower health (more challenging)

ONWCs:
added firing spread or modified already existing one

PAR3s:
modifed projectile dodge distance and projectile notice distance for all of them except for w1_tap_p07 and w2_sap_p07(these two were changed so they stay forever, they do not fade).

TXMPs:
both: changed TXMP options according to a WIKI info, so it does not play its TXAN anim over and over, but each time particle with this TXMP is spawned, it randomly picks one TXMP from TXAN

That w1_tap_p07 and w2_sap_p07 + TXMPs is just eye-candy: cases do not fade, they stay on the ground (kinda adds to the atmosphere)

I am looking forward to the release of 7thAE !
                                                                                                                            Loser

Last edited by Loser (19/1/08 3:13)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#47 19/1/08 5:39

ItemfinderDeluxe
Member
From: Canberra, Australia
Registered: 12/11/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

I must have been sleeping under a rock before all this, but what does AE stand for?

Also, have the throw ranges fixed for the problem characters (Strikers and SWAT) during any stage?


TCTF SWAT: Striker, you're under arrest.
Striker: H4h, y0u c4n'7 570p m3!!!
TCTF SWAT: Damn it, learn to spell!!!
CURRENT PROJECT - 'Nemesis' V1.0 Released

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#48 19/1/08 6:09

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

7th AE = 7th Anniversary Edition

All modifications which were posted on this thread are for this 7th AE. So if you are playing it, then throw ranges are fixed in all stages, because all TRAMs and ONCCs are gathered in level 0. So you modify them only once.

For standard, well, you will have to modify specific throws for each level.

                                                                                                                                   Loser


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#49 19/1/08 11:28

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

Loser: Thanks, will test them out today.

Look at this screenshot I found on godgames.com

attachment.php?item=183&download=1


http://web.archive.org/web/200304140728 … shots.html

Last edited by EdT (19/1/08 11:30)

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#50 19/1/08 11:53

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Seventh Anniversary Edition, Version Good Resolutions

EdT, have a look on what you have done by our post smile
Anyway, if officals are saying that, then it looks to me that fact, that you can't throw enemies over bstacles, is just some bug made in the rush of game's shipping. So it could be possible to get rid of it and throw victims over rails....maybe.
                                                                                                                                         Loser

Last edited by Loser (19/1/08 11:54)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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