Oni remake

semicloud · 09/05/17 10:09

u could make Oni with the bl engine, and it's probably easier. i chose bl engine cause it has a built in modeler and a small foot print. the open source nature of make this engine idea for collaboration like this. the modularity of assets easy export/import, project file can be shared easier etc. bl engine runs on older hardware and has relatively small print of small..

semicloud · 09/05/17 10:09

re-edit

Last edited by semicloud (09/05/17 11:09)

paradox-01 · 09/05/17 12:09

When do you plan to be done with planing?

s10k · 09/05/17 12:09

paradox-01 wrote:

When do you plan to be done with planing?

Hey paradox-01 relax. Let semicloud impress us, no need to rush.

semicloud · 09/05/17 14:09

i bet 3 talents from this forum, if they really wanted to, could do the entire remake of Oni if they wanted to do. for some reason, nobody wants to do this.

actually takes more skills to hack a game than to make the game.

stop making half efforts comments

want to see a smart comment
http://oni.bungie.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2778

here

let's just get a couple people to agree one engine. and have somebody concoct a theoretical improvements they want to make to the game and start from there.

Last edited by semicloud (09/05/17 14:09)

semicloud · 09/05/17 15:09

also, with the talent here, it's an insult to ask if could we make the game. anyone here could have made the game. that's not the issue.

a better question would be how we gona top the original in every aspect

there is too much talent here to lone gun everything. if one person like pierre could have made a game from scratch, imagine if a couple other people with different talent areas got together. imagine the possibility.

Last edited by semicloud (09/05/17 15:09)

Scarlett · 09/05/17 21:09

The reason i chose unity or unreal because those engines are capable of making games with beautiful visuals and has manytthings to make the game to work as intended, such as lightning, shaders, volumetric rendering, and functions such as day and night cycles, minimap, dynamic weather system advanced AI and much more. Some of these ive made on my own before in unity and im still learning about shaders and volumetric rendering at this time. There are many things that oni has we can improve upon, such as the combat, gun fights, stealth, and many more. We can go with an open world if there's a big team of developers or go with levels after levels if there's a smalls team. Can even draw inspiration from other games to make something oni like to be much better. But the big question remains; who's willing to do it?

semicloud · 09/05/17 21:09

if you are not willing to do it, u can't expect others to do it. blender is a way better engine, i think. unity won't even run on my computer. lags as soon as polycount goes up. on top of that, u would still need a separate program for animation and modeling.

also, u can't wait for a big team. u and I are the team, and anyone who decides to do it. that's how things get done, a couple people deciding on a singular vision.

so let's decide on a engine and a direction and just go

Last edited by semicloud (09/05/17 21:09)

Scarlett · 09/05/17 21:09

I guess a lot of people would disagree with you

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/388 … r-vs-unity

https://blenderartists.org/forum/showth … ame-Engine

The same can be said about unreal vs blender. I do game developement. I know what im talking about lol. And not because blender can do a lot of things doesnt mean it can do everything. It has a lot of limitations unlike unity or unreal. Also unity and unreal are mainly for AAA games and with all that it has, it will lag on weaker devices. It doesn't lag for me to be honest

Last edited by Scarlett (09/05/17 22:09)

semicloud · 09/05/17 22:09

which engine do u want to use. i recommend blender. really doesn't matter to me, i just thought blender would be way easier.

Last edited by semicloud (09/05/17 22:09)

Scarlett · 09/05/17 22:09

Well i prefer unity to be honest. I use MakeHuman for human models then zbrush to add realistic looking clothing. Blender for animation. Crazy bump for creating normal maps. I thinks that's all i used for game dev. I also use blender for other models until i can get maya or 3d max

semicloud · 09/05/17 22:09

why not use blender for everything, be easier.

Scarlett · 09/05/17 22:09

Because to make something modern, unity or unreal are best because they dont have major limitations and are capable of making stunning AAA games. Also blender models aren't industry standard. Industry standard are maya, 3d max and zbrush for modeling and sculpting

Last edited by Scarlett (09/05/17 22:09)

semicloud · 09/05/17 22:09

then let's decide on Unity as game engine then.

wat's the next phase.

Scarlett · 09/05/17 22:09

Also unity is capable of volumetric rendering which blender cannot do. You have an engine, now you will need to know what you're going to do with it. You can draw inspiration from futuristic games such as halo and oni itself. Models can be inspired by oni or other futuristic games. There are a lot. Also once you have something to really show, you can put out some screen shots, demos and/or trailers. Market starts during mid development, not after development or close to end. My pc is trash for now so i can't do any game dev for a while i would like to add something like this on my to do list

semicloud · 09/05/17 22:09

that's my point, blender works on older systems.

Last edited by semicloud (09/05/17 22:09)

ltemplar · 09/06/17 01:09

To Scarlett.
I agree on the part that Unity and Unreal engines are way better in developing the AAA games. But the question is . Do we really need an AAA game ? In my opinion most peoples gathered here want an upgraded version of oni(possibly transferred to another engine to avoid legality issues). All features You've mentioned here are not as much needed as You may think in this process. The most important one however are :
1)The game play similar to oni, with include :
-jumping crunching ,
-shooting in the run ,
-unique H2H system ,
-throws and disarms ,
-smart AI
etc.
1a)To bring back to Oni mentioned features like: 3 weapon handling system , Iron demon fight , BGI level, destructible objects(more than only glass).
2)Easier made mods.
3)Better compatibility with today's operational systems.
4)Graphics comparable to first trailers(shadow casting, lights, ..and maybe blur for particle effects).
5)Multi-player.

Ltemplar

semicloud · 09/06/17 03:09

exactly.

Last edited by semicloud (09/06/17 03:09)

semicloud · 09/06/17 09:09

actually, it be kinda fun to code a engine just for this project. if blender didn't exist, this would be a serious consideration.

there is really no need other than u want some custom effects life anime shaders or something. or some tailored workflow, don't know. be fun to do though.

i seriously toyed with the idea of coding a engine until blender miraculous offered N-gon support and included a serious knife tool with erase and edge dissolve features which made character modeling viable.

i toyed with the game engine to make sure it had the most basic feature like texture mapping and at least some physics to work with, mainly to see if it does wat it say it does. u got a realize blender in it's earlier develop had a lot of feature that was broken either due to compatiblity issue or immature development. just because somebody advertise something to do something doesn't mean it actually does it.

plus blender was never seriously tested as a game engine or a modeling tool for that matter. it only offered N-gon support and edge split and erase feature after i found this serious flaw. they started a separate development shortly after to fix this issue.

the physics engine looks wonky, but that wasn't too much a problem cause u can code your own physics engine with python. u just had to have access to API that allowed u to calculate polygon positions and relative values. u can set up your own collision table if u wanted to. that's why i was too adamant to test out the physics.

how u theoretically do this is let's say you had a cube object. the ronsendale team(blender 's founder) only had to provide a simple API access to the point position of cube a way to increment it's position, and a couple other basic funciton, u could code a physic engine.

to calculate simple collision, u could do something let

if(cube.pointPosiion=floor.pointPosiont) collision=true

now, to add physics, it would be simple

cube.PositionX=cubePositionX+5

this will auto increment.

to make physics global you would only need to make every object inherit a physics class. this can be emulated with any type of object oriented approach.

so you would do something like

cube=new physics object(cube)

to enable physics you would do something like

cube.gravity=false; u could fucnctionally adjust gravity values to individual object

cube.gravity=10;

Last edited by semicloud (09/06/17 10:09)

semicloud · 09/06/17 11:09

just thought of a cool way to balance a move like sub zero's freezing ball move by a theoretically classifying it as a weapon that you don't draw.

so how this work is sub zero, using him as example, has a ranged attack which is overpowered if he can spam it. not if u classify this as a weapon, he would need ammo for it. since it's technically a energy weapon, he would need to find ammo for it.

to make it fit in the game without creating a separate power up drop, u could theoretically work the explaination that he has built in freeze ball weapon in this suit he could fire. he doesn't technically have to "Q" draw it like a gun, that's wat makes this weapon fast is cause u don't need to draw it.

however, sub zero can't use a gun.

Last edited by semicloud (09/06/17 11:09)

semicloud · 09/06/17 11:09

i could work sub zero into the story line. be a game with mash up from other fighting games. i think it be interesting.

here is how this character will work when u play as it.

shift, release shift, punch will be his freeze ball move (it's comboed as a special attack like rising fury ). his default weapon is this move. so you will see a a freeze ball sign where u would normally see weapon. this is exactly like a weapon in almost every way.

he starts out with 4 rounds of this move, but you can power up ammo capacity by leveling up at any terminal. just like a weapon, u would need to find ammo for it. there isn't a separate ammo for this. this weapon is classified as a green energy weapon so green ammo will reload it.

he will have melee moves, just like the game. he has an upper cut moves that knocks you back. it works exactly like konoko's except this move is fairly powerful if you get hit with it.

originally, i plan on him not being able to use a weapon at all, but it's unrealistic when other character can pick up guns and fire them.

so subzero can let's say pick up a pistol. he just can't specialize in a pistol or increase it's ammo capacity as a passive skill. however, that energy freeze move he has, he can. he can increase it's power and capacity, freeze duration wat not cause it's weapon is instrinsic to his biology. it harnesses bio-energy. or i could just have it up in regular capacity for simplifiaction. haven't worked out how i'm going to do this exactly. just depends on how it plays out.

a character like katana has a ranged blade move. works the same way except this special require ballistic ammo backs. u can literally up the damage of this move. now, it will be hard to explain how red ammo packs are converted into throwing darts. i could offer the explanation of instant metal fabrication technology that allows a arm piece to literally materialize metal by charging it will ballistic technology. just like sub zero, she can use a gun, but not be able to specialize in a gun.

how this technically work is ballistic energy backs contain the raw element for fabrication. her arm piece is just a gun that converts this elements into metal darts. and there is a mechanical mechanism where it pushes out her arm so she can grab it with her hand and throw it.

Last edited by semicloud (09/06/17 11:09)

semicloud · 09/06/17 11:09

this game will be still ONI, but will have mash up from other characters from different universe. since this is a fan remake, this would be very interesting to do. instead of creating a completely foreign character like alpha 117 that nobody can identify with, you have it be another game character that everyone recognizes. here lies the powerful of fan games is completely creative freedom.

so Muro instead of creating alpha 117, he is creating Alpha-152 from DOA, which is basically hitomi. however, she is an early clone, not as powerful as the original. though i could make her powerful like the doa games. this character is speculation rite now.

so here, i 'm meshing the story line as well.

Last edited by semicloud (09/06/17 11:09)

semicloud · 09/06/17 11:09

how this will be fun is people will get a fresh look at a skill tree by starting with an entirely new character as sub zero. also, people probably jaded at looking at konoko though konoko will still be in the game somewhere. but you wouldn't seem her later.

beats me having to create a character people can't identify with. plus, it will be fun to see how i integrate the lore and mechanics of mortal kombat into original ONI story line.

Last edited by semicloud (09/06/17 11:09)

Gumby · 09/06/17 11:09

semicloud wrote:

i bet 3 talents from this forum, if they really wanted to, could do the entire remake of Oni if they wanted to do. for some reason, nobody wants to do this.
actually takes more skills to hack a game than to make the game.
stop making half efforts comments
want to see a smart comment
http://oni.bungie.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2778
here
let's just get a couple people to agree one engine. and have somebody concoct a theoretical improvements they want to make to the game and start from there.

It's currently 1 am where I am (hello from Tokyo!), but I feel this is an important thing for me to reply to. Making a game is not simple nor fast. This is probably going to turn into a wall of text. I highly encourage you to read and carefully consider what I'm going to write, and please do not take it as me putting you down in any way. I'm also writing this with no reference for your skills and abilities other than the last page or so of text you've wrote, so please forgive me if I'm missing my mark here.

Let's divide "making a game" into three parts (and for simplicity, give one of these hypothetical three people one part each). I'm also going to give each person a half a year's worth of time to work full time on this remake. I'm giving some allowances - this is sort of an "Oni HD" situation, and wouldn't be feasible for anyone on this forum to do legally (copying characters\levels\setting\plot for your own game is a big No-No).

The first major part is "Gameplay\Design". Even if you are making a flat remake of Oni, you may still want to modernize bits of the design and bring back some cut gameplay concepts. Doing this may seem "easy" as it doesn't take obvious artistic or engineering skills (though being a good designer requires bits of both!). It's not. It's a load of work to make something fun and usable, and it requires a bunch of skills that most people don't have. Like any other skill, it can be learned and honed. Writing down some pie in the sky game ideas is not enough, you have to actually go implement them. If you're interested in this, start small, make a game in the easiest framework with the simplest greybox art possible. Use physical paper props instead. Go read gamasutra articles and YT videos that break down game design. I see you are making new character powers. If you can implement them ingame that's a great start both to see what is fun and what isn't. You will quickly find that just throwing an idea off the top of your head isn't good enough - you will need to carefully consider its interactions with other parts of the game and actions the player could take. Making a flowchart may help. Even so, it will take a long time to get good at it.

In six months, an experienced designer might be able to do a first draft rework of Oni's design to fix some of the rough edges, including time to prototype and test ideas. This includes everything from controls to gameplay to level design concepts (a rework of melee combat would be nice, but wouldn't be feasible in the time allowed). They would also probably have to help out with level scripting and UI. This is much shorter than designing a game from scratch, but it's probably underestimated.

Moving on - "Art". Making game art is not fast. It needs to be pretty while at the same time not using too much detail (or else your game won't run fast enough). Your single artist would have to: make characters (modelling, rigging, animating), make UI art, (possibly) find sounds online to use (while making real sound guys cry at how neglected their area of expertise is at times), construct levels (including models, props, texturing), make particle systems. I'm sure I missed at least one major area.

In any case, let's say that the artist might be able to make one character in three months (this is vastly underestimating, there are a lot of animations needed). That one character could be repainted to make an enemy character for a prototype. The other three months could probably make a decent chunk of Warehouse or TCTF Training. The good news is, time could be saved by getting free assets of the web. The bad news is, the assets might not be of good quality, you might not be able to find everything you need, and you may spend just as much time sheparding assets as it would have taken just to make them yourselves.

Next up "Engineering". Don't use Blender as your engine. It's not well supported, it even says so on Blender's website. UE4 and Unity are both fine choices for a game engine for an independent project (if this is your first game, I'd probably go with Unity - UE4 is a bit heavy). Both engines come with a lot out of the box (Physics, Rendering, Locomotion, Scripting), but there are going to be some things that no game engine you look at will have - the biggest among these is going to be the melee system. Oni's melee system is complex, setting it up and getting things just to look "okay" will easily take up the entire six months. It will require an engineer with very good knowledge of animation systems. I'm really glossing over a bunch of stuff in this area because I'm tired (which is a pity because it's my job!).

One more thing - if you have any sanity, don't try and make a game and an engine at the same time, especially if you've never made either. You won't ever release either. Making game engines is really fun. Making games is really fun. Unfortunately, they both take up a bunch of time.

In general, making games is hard. Really, unbelievably hard. Every single number I gave here was underestimated, I'm sure. And that six months figure? That's assuming you don't have to make rent or go to school or have a social life or anything silly like that. That six months of actual work time could take up the next three years to do. This is also ignoring a bunch of stuff like startup time (gotta set up chat, source repos, wikis, etc, though this is easier than a decade ago), team members ghosting on you, life emergencies, etc. And at the end of those six months, you don't have a game, you have a proof of concept....maybe. Three people could remake Oni, but it would take the next decade to do it at a minimum. Go look up the Half Life 1 remake for an idea of how long it took a much larger team to do the same thing (with sanctions from the publisher! which none of us will have for Oni).

Now....all that being said: if you want to do game stuff, go do it. I would be the last person in the world to discourage you from doing so. I got my game development start from this exact forum. All I want to do is encourage you to do it the right way, and to appreciate the craft (don't just spout off stuff about how easy it is to remake a game, no matter how talented you think your fellow forum members are). If you start of doing it knowing it will be hard and require perseverance, I think you have a greater chance of pulling through. I'd really recommend starting smaller than a full remake, but do whatever makes you happy. I'd be hypocritical if I tried to stop you from doing something big if you really have your heart set on it. I never finished Oni: Flatline, but I did put out a damn fine demo showing that I got pretty far.

semicloud · 09/06/17 12:09

how will sub zero play

-he will have a leg throw like konoko's cause i seen him do this in the movie. this will probably be his only throw.
-he may have a choke neck move for back facing enemy thats fairly strong.
-he will have a strong militaristic style punch combination, but probably not a third combination for balance. how this will work is on the second combination comboes into a karate style kick.
-he has a trip move that's normal

mortal kombat characters aren't going to be expert comboers, that's something DOA characters are good.

DOA characters will be close to the only character with counter moves. only character like baymen can specialize in weapons. where has hitomi still can pick up a gun and shoot it, but not be able to specialize.

the fun part is actually working out he will fight but be fitting of ONI but still be truthful to mortal kombat.

Last edited by semicloud (09/06/17 12:09)

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