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#26 21/1/14 4:43

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

loser wrote:

Electricity is arcing through wall (-1100, 0, -1700). Turning the effect off (and all other effects as well) and making it appear only when player enters the area where the effect should be visible would not only solve this issue but also lessen the burden on the level redrawing.

Where is that hmm the elec in the lab is only turned on when u enter it .   If you're talking about the ones above the ground on the blue lasers where jamie switch happens then they are positioned too far from the reserve wall for them to appear at sp1. Edit ok found it, but player has no reason to go there. Its an easy fix though.

When protagonists enter invisibility, enemies temporarily lose the cloak. Or is it only buffer overflow, causing the blue shield effect to disappear?

Buffer overflow we made lower lods for characters to fix it, I dont have it anymore in my testing. Not sure why you do.

Enemy AI is kind of lacking. Are they dulled on purpose?

actually yes... they were too alert before, and that part was very hard. once they spot you, you're done for, so I had to dumb down their forget and pursuit parameters. On easy they are also deaf so you can sprint right behind them while invisible and they wont notice.

jamie does not copy player's movement mode. Looks kind of weird when player stealthily creeps with Jamie sprinting at full speed right behind player's back.

I dont think that would work ... im no bsl expert but I think you can only make her imitate him by waiting for animation and forcing a movement mode on her. But what happens if he decides to creep before she catches up with him ? Then she's creeping in the line of sight of enemies.

Jamie can get stuck outside the preserve with player already inside and door locked. Broken situation, can be solved only by restarting the checkpoint.

how many times did that happen ... seriously ? I did a lot of testing from different locations to give it plenty of time for jamie to catch up before it closes. Unless you were completely forsaking jamie or just teleported in while she was still at the beginning i dont see that happening.

Player can get stuck in boulders. Could be solved by a few bounding boxes.

which ones ? I did add bounding boxes to almost all of them, the big one to the right once you enter has it, the one with the hypo has it, the ambush one has it, the big one at the pit has it the one at cave exit etc ... I couldn't make the bounding box any bigger without it ending looking like theres a magical barrier. So which rocks in particular ? Maybe 1 slipped by or the collison is failing for you for some other reason.

Blue lasers are not as deadly as player is told - enemies can pass them without problems.

Yup couldnt change that, apparently lasers can only be triggered by player, turrets can target other teams but there's no parameter to make lasers triggered by non player. So no other way unless a tv is added and then danger markers so they avoid it, problem with that is some lasers are placed in a curve shape tvs cant have that to my knowledge. And if danger markers are added jamie will refuse to cross even after they're off. And if no danger markers are added then they'll just run to them and die. Even in original oni enemies cant trigger lasers so why should this be an exception. Maybe the security system recognizes self smile

enemies from the next area should not be ignorant. Looks weird to have soldiers just hanging around when there's shooting and brawling on the other side of the fence.

it will look even weirder when they flood the player and the next area is left without any enemies. tongue There's a big distance between them and over the sound of the forest they didn't hear them ^_^ or they were sleeping on the job tongue

Again player is being able to phase into boulders (especially the big one to the left of the area entrance).

I added invis barriers and danger quads to it, and it was a pain to do, because we had an annoying bug with doors appear whenever we modified the akev and onlv post crsa integration. it baffles me that you mention this when i've taken all precutions against it.

Poodles of acid should either only damage (not instakill) or completely dissolve (chr_delete or chr_teleport) characters.

uhm why ? It works same way the acid works in original levels. And they have a purpose at last save point.

mine explosions have quite strong knockback. Beware of possibility they could knock the player out of the map, if two or three of them add together.

issue also been addressed by adding invis barriers to the cave wall. Im starting to think invis barriers are not working all together for you. A simple test on the slope of the pit sp3. You shouldnt be able to run off the slope from the left due to a small invis barrier. Can you ?
But then again ive never managed to have several mines add on effect together ... tongue

There's a glitch possible with the secret in the area. After entering the area, immediately go get the secret. After getting the secret, let Jamie through caverns, defeat enemies and let the game save. Now each time the savepoint is reloaded, the secret will be spawned again, granting the player twice more secret than planned.

was intentional ... initially I only had the gun spawn at sp4 but the feedback I got was it was very difficult to find so if you didnt get it before deactivating the mines and got sp5 and then died you wont be able to get it again except by replaying the whole cave part. So I did that reluctantly. Though weapons arent that huge of an advantage againt the enemies after that point. Edit: is there a bsl way to check if player has that gun at savept 5 ? If he doesnt have it, we spawn it again if he has it we dont

Snipers videsibly spawn in windows, which does not look very nice. Better is to spawn units occluded and then let them assume their visible positions in windows.

Problem with snipers if they are left free they will leave their positions and try to get better aim by trying to exit through the other window. So there are invis barriers surrounding them preventing them to move and due to the invis barriers they cant enter the location from any other angle so they have to be spawned there and remain trapped till james reaches the other side and enters a tv that makes the barriers disappear. But yes I dont like the way they appear.

Something is broken in the platforming section (maybe trigvolume positioning?) and because of "it" it happens very often that player obviously jumps from the crate but the game instakills the player as if the player fell down into the acid. Bonus points awarded when the corpse lands on the crate the player was trying to jump to. Because of this problem the area is really frustrating. Not difficult, not challenging, but frustrating.

timing is everything, the boxes are disappearing if you take too long to jump it will kill you. I assure you the tv is placed correctly just a bit below the surface of the acid.
the video I made on 3 modes of it shows theres nothing bugged about it. I'll retest though.

Player can get stuck in between barrels in the underground laboratory.

acknowledged but how would you end up there tongue

Sometimes MercuryBows refuse to do their job. VanDeGraaf turrets are on the other side very eager to harass the player. That means when player crosses some laser, he is usually not killed on spot, but rather dragged stunned around for a good minute till some MercuryBow finally wakes up and ends the torture.

yup slow and painful death, though im not sure why the mbos behave that way. Luckily there's an escape button and reload save point option.

If player disposes the smaller threat and ends up standing near the burning area, then in the cutscene the big threat enters and starts beating the player while player's input is blocked. Very unpleasant, especially when the player is already low on health. It can even happen the big threat manages to finish the player during the cutscene, before the player get chance to defend himself.

acknowledged. I thought of teleporting player and jamie to a specific location but then thought players would be like how come they magically changed location. So what do you suggest.

I would like to borrow the level and redesign some gameplay elements. Can I, pretty please?

Knock yourself out smile but please keep me updated on what is changing. I also wanted to have your mod advanced console interaction integrated to some consoles and I made a post about that on your thread. Would you integrate it too while you're at it ?

Also, the grenade launcher weapon (one is used by a soldier at 1st savepoint, outside of the complex) is definitely bugged. Projectile emitter is too close to wielder's hands, thus making the wielder hit himself from time to time. Tested with James.

Rocket launcher you mean the red weapon, to be honest the new weapons collection was very frustrating to work with, it's not my mod to begin with ... I tried to fix it as much as I could so I could utilize it in the preserve level. I'm not great with particles nor weapon modding so it was hard for me and took a lot of time away from modding the level and since that weapon is only used that 1 instant in the level I couldnt spend more time on it. Besides the weapons collection mod has been out months before the level ... im surprised no one mentioned the guns problems (the one knox mentioned too) till now.
Anyway if you know how to fix it please do or tell me how precisely (values and all) cz first time I worked with it I spent hours troubleshooting it just to make it usable by the ai.

Last edited by Samer (21/1/14 7:42)


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#27 21/1/14 7:41

s10k
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Problem with snipers if they are left free they will leave their positions and try to get better aim by trying to exit through the other window. So there are invis barriers surrounding them preventing them to move and due to the invis barriers they cant enter the location from any other angle so they have to be spawned there and remain trapped till james reaches the other side and enters a tv that makes the barriers disappear. But yes I dont like the way they appear.

Maybe you can spawn them inside, move them to a flag just before the window and then activate the invisible barriers.

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#28 21/1/14 17:14

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Loser wrote:

Something is broken in the platforming section (maybe trigvolume positioning?) and because of "it" it happens very often that player obviously jumps from the crate but the game instakills the player as if the player fell down into the acid. Bonus points awarded when the corpse lands on the crate the player was trying to jump to. Because of this problem the area is really frustrating. Not difficult, not challenging, but frustrating.

Samer wrote:

timing is everything, the boxes are disappearing if you take too long to jump it will kill you. I assure you the tv is placed correctly just a bit below the surface of the acid.
the video I made on 3 modes of it shows theres nothing bugged about it. I'll retest though.

... I hate to admit ... yes it turns out something IS WRONG there, it wasn't before though.
at last minute and after all testing was done and after making the videos, I had to modify the width of that TV because it wasn't covering the whole vat properly and player could fall at the end of it and not be harmed at all. so when I changed the width for some reason the height of it has been changed as well.
Sorry about that and thanks Loser for bringing it to my attention.
I'll be remaking that TV and also increasing the time the boxes stay visible since many have had trouble with it.
s10k I'll need your fast internet smile I'm going to upload the changed files and hope you can replace them in the package and re-update it,.

I'll also fix some of the other issues Loser brought up.

by the way these are the invisible barriers\bounding boxes on the rocks .. they're there.
SNAG-0002-22-1-2014.jpg
SNAG-0003-22-1-2014.jpg
SNAG-0004-22-1-2014.jpg

Last edited by Samer (21/1/14 18:09)


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#29 21/1/14 17:24

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Glad to see you finish your level Samer, nice presentation on it too.


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#30 21/1/14 17:48

s10k
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Samer wrote:

s10k I'll need your fast internet smile I'm going to upload the changed files and hope you can replace them in the package and re-update it,.

Sure no problem. Send them via email.

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#31 22/1/14 2:39

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Package updated:
*Electricity particle doesn't start from the beginning anymore.
* Changed the way snipers spawn
* Fixed the big vat platforming, and crates remain visible a bit longer.
* Fixed getting stuck at barrels in lab and in last savepoint.
* Fixed the cutscene with last enemy he will no longer attack till player regains control.
@loser thanks for reporting the issues and feel free to improve what you feel still needs improving.
@lithium thanks smile I hope you give it a try.

Last edited by Samer (22/1/14 11:52)


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#32 22/1/14 4:32

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

I can not as that game just became unplayable for me, crash after crash after crash, decreased the mods so much but it still crashed so ehh.

I saw your playthrough, damn dude the presentation on it is incredible and I'm amazed at how many set pieces the level has, platforming, stealth, combat, even the laser parts, has about everything seen in a standard Oni level, well made dude. Also good idea with the multiple save points as it does seem pretty brutal later.


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#33 22/1/14 9:22

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Lithium wrote:

I saw your playthrough, damn dude the presentation on it is incredible and I'm amazed at how many set pieces the level has, platforming, stealth, combat, even the laser parts, has about everything seen in a standard Oni level, well made dude.

Yes, it's great to see that level modding has come so far.  Who would have thought this would be possible one day, back in 2001 or even 2007?


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#34 23/1/14 10:44

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Samer wrote:

Anyway if you know how to fix it please do or tell me how precisely (values and all) cz first time I worked with it I spent hours troubleshooting it just to make it usable by the ai.

The last 3 numbers in the Transform flag of the ONWCParticle refers to the particle's location.  Viewing it from the perspective of the AI's hands. The first number moves the particle forward or back.  The second number left or right.  The third number up or down.  For the rocket launcher the current values are: 6.218531 0.5 1.2.  However to move the particle farther away from the AI, I changed the value to 7.  The particle was a little off center and low so I changed the 2nd number to 0 to center the particle and for the 3rd number changed it to 2 to raise it.  So the final values were 7 0 2

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#35 23/1/14 12:49

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Ed do you mind testing that with the ai ? Are they able to shoot their target with these values and from the correct distance ? It was hard before to find the balance between making the gun player usable and ai usable ... for example when I set certain values that made the gun shoot correctly when aimed by player, in hands of ai they rarely hit the target ... you could be standing right in front of them and they'd shoot it above your head or to the sides and never hit you.


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#36 23/1/14 18:05

EdT
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
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Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Samer, The AI did a good job of shooting me smile  I did not encounter the issues you mentioned, but you could leave the last 2 values the same and increase the first value to move the particle slightly forward.

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#37 26/1/14 8:45

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Can someone help me with troubleshooting an issue ?

at save point 6 of the level after defeating the surprise character, and then going up the stairs .. sometimes the game Blams! and crashes there ... in my testing I had that happen once or twice but I dismissed it as a random \ rare thing and I didn't know what may cause it ... but now another user is reporting it happens everytime for him and thus can't reach save point 7.

anyone who's good with troubleshooting can help figure this out ? what might cause a blam ? a bsl error ? too many particles ? i have no idea why it happens there in particular, going up the stairs :\ or sometimes if it doesn't happen directly going down and then up the stairs a second time \ few times causes it. are there any logs that may help diagnose the issue ?

if this helps, there are 4 trigger volumes in that area ... one outside the building at the crates you jump on to enter, this tv removes the invis barriers surrounding the snipers. Second tv is superimposed on top of it, this one is used for sound change once you exit the lab, another tv right inside the building this turns on the lab sound and decreases the music, the 4th tv is in the small room with the dead scientist, this one starts electric particles and sounds everytime player enters it.

Last edited by Samer (26/1/14 9:22)


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#38 26/1/14 12:03

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Turns out there's a problem with the markers \ invis barriers on the stairs. removing them fixes it.
will be updating the package soon with the fix.
(that's why I wish I had more testers pre-release It would have been better to catch these bugs earlier)

Last edited by Samer (26/1/14 12:08)


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#39 27/1/14 6:27

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Package updated  version 1.2

* Fixed crashing bug when going up the stairs at save point 6.

* Added a new bonus secret \ easter egg:similar to my Hidden Treasure Challenge, this one is well hidden but is worth finding.
The hint is "Such a beautiful view from up here, such a shame only Jamie can see it".
Note that if you have Rayman installed the secret will be double worth, if not then it's still well worth the effort.
If you find this one -and without cheating- you're awesome ^_^  (will add a video of it soon)


*Improved some console textures.

Last edited by Samer (27/1/14 22:44)


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#40 27/1/14 22:25

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Ok version 1.2 is up now.

Bonus secret added .

...similar to my Hidden Treasure Challenge, this one is well hidden but is worth finding. The hint is "Such a beautiful view from up here, such a shame only Jamie can see it". Note that if you have Rayman installed the secret will be double worth, if not then it's still well worth the effort.

This video will show what and where it is if you've given up on finding it : Wilderness Preserve - Bonus Secret


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#41 31/1/14 21:55

EdT
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
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Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

I would never have found that Bonus secret without the video!  Thumbs up for the additional bonus cutscene.

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#42 2/2/14 19:25

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Just a head up for Samer:
I tried to remake the first part (consoles) to look according to my tastes.

I don't know if my memory is failing me or if it is a result of Daodan DLL patching, but I have never met such a BLAM! density. Anything a bit creative results in some sort of a problem: ai2_doalarms make the game hang, a bit non-standard patrol paths make the game crash, ai2_idle makes to game hang, returns in BSL scripting are all funky, Gumby's extra BSL functions are invaluably useful (big thx, Gumby) but of course glitched and so on and so on and so on...

Spent a whole last week on it (instead of Master's an my GF ^_^) and I am through with this. I don't have all lifetime to dodge a bug each fourth line of BSL code to create something worth-looking.

What was the idea and what solutions were done:
Jamie
Jamie was given her custom CMBT profile:

  • only the CloseRange has a useful behavior (Melee), the rest of behaviors are set to Stare.

  • IfNoGun is set to Retreat.

This makes Jamie largely ignorant to distant damage from enemy gunfire. She tends to dodge the gunfire after a first few shots hit her, but does not advance to distant enemy thanks to Stare behaviors and the Retreat IfNoGun. Stare behaviors also limit the Retreat IfNoGun as well, so she does not retreat someplace away on the other side of the map, but stays more or less within the area. Such a CMBT profile makes her very defensive, going into attack mode only if some enemy presses himself very close. Ideal behavior fo an AI sidekick.

To make Jamie follow the player, she is attached a custom NEUT profile which has large Trigger distance, very very small Talk distance (speech cannot be triggered) and a decent Enemy distance. Thanks to such a profile Jamie follows player but does not "run into" the player.

Jamie can be hurt or die. Since Jamie (and James as well) is more an intellectual individual than a brawler, she should not be a damage sponge. However even tough a very defensive AI behavior is set (CMBT above), still she can get into a fight and be hurt. Now, how to make Jamie look like a lady (not like a Terminator) but at the same time not frustrate player over the roof because she died yet again?
Easy, give player an option to privide Jamie a hypo spray. If Jamie gets low, a special NEUT profile is attached which has a "normal" talk range. On a conversation, if player has a hypo, subtract it from player's inventory and fully heal Jamie.

If Jamie mimicks player's movement mode, allowing a predatory pre-emptive backthrows on enemies, since she keeps quiet and low if player creeps around. This is done by standard BSL keytraps (chr_wait_*) but with a twist - she mimicks player only if she is close to the player and no combat-ready enemy is nearby. If she is further away from player or some active enemy get too close, Jamie stops mimicking player, as it would hinder her in movement and combat.

Status of Jamie sidekick and its logic:
kind of works, Oni AI was not finished in area of sidekicks (there were meant to be TeamBattle and Guard job types), but the final result in this field is acceptable.



Enemies
Enemies at the first savepoint were meant to be savvy. They were designed to move in a grid of interconnected simple patrol path segments (go to a flag, fork a script which contains next destination randomizer). Thus they were capable of randomly choosing next destination upon arriving at a flag, giving player a fresh experience each time this section would be replayed. They were also designed (of course in a very limited sense) to recognize switched consoles and reset them back, thus providing a challenge for a player.

Since the first savepoint is about stealth, it means console interation not only for the player, but also for the AI. And this console interaction was the last nail which made me stop as it produced a steady stream of glitches, bugs and crashes. Oni was probably not build to provide such a complexity for the AI, so even tough from my point of view everything is alright in the console operation logic, the game keeps pumping out hangs and crashes. Not funny -_-

Status of enemies: randomized patrol paths work, but console logic design failed because of unstable ai2_doalarm results and frequent hangs/crashes.



Consoles
Data entry consoles utilized the advanced console interaction. Each console was provided with a password (randomly generated each restart). The last possible way to log into the console was to guess the password as there were no hinder mechanisms designed (why should they, with its 1:256 chance of correct sequence input these mechanics are kind of firm). Other possibility to obtain the password was to steal it from dead bodies, but if and only if the character had something like that with him. Another option was to install a keylogger on console, trick some AI into using the console in question and retrieve the password.

Status: Operational.


There you have it, Samer. Just one problematic area (AI console behavior) and whole mod is useless, beacuse there is a little point in playing hide and seek and having depp console mechanics, when AI is dumb as a duck, only good in following pre-made paths (anything else is a Bingo lotto with crashes and hangs) and cannot be made to provide at least some sort of like-life behavior (which si a must for a stelath part in any game).



Thank you for giving me a chance to toy with the level, but unfortunately, this time I will not deliver ^_^

Last edited by Loser (2/2/14 19:26)


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#43 2/2/14 21:08

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

I'm confused (not surprisingly).  Opening a door with a couple consoles, AIs that can use alarm consoles... Oni has these too.  So what was different with your modding attempt that Oni couldn't handle?


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#44 3/2/14 13:38

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

@ Loser

1- I do appreciate the time and effort you put into this and it taking away time from your personal life and studies, trust me I get that.
2- I do admire the high standards you have for your work ... I can relate (a bit) whenever we had a project at university I was always a perfectionist and wanted certain standards to be reached, needless to say I was a complete pain to work with when it was a group work.
3. I respect the vast knowledge you have in various areas of modding and your creativity, I've been at this since 2009 and I still don't have quarter of the knowledge you do.

that being said...
I never wanted this mod to be perfect, I was hoping you would help me "improve" it. Improve as in make it better than it is, not the best, not perfect, but better.

so,

Status of Jamie sidekick and its logic:
kind of works, Oni AI was not finished in area of sidekicks (there were meant to be TeamBattle and Guard job types), but the final result in this field is acceptable.

great ! I was worried about jamie mimicking james at the wrong times but you figured a way around that - which I would have never thought of.

Loser wrote:

Data entry consoles utilized the advanced console interaction. Each console was provided with a password (randomly generated each restart). The last possible way to log into the console was to guess the password as there were no hinder mechanisms designed (why should they, with its 1:256 chance of correct sequence input these mechanics are kind of firm). Other possibility to obtain the password was to steal it from dead bodies, but if and only if the character had something like that with him. Another option was to install a keylogger on console, trick some AI into using the console in question and retrieve the password.
Status: Operational.

that's also great, I wanted the advanced console interaction to be used in this mod so badly but as I said i simply don't have the bsl skill to accomplish it and i tried to reach you on that mod's thread for help, but I understand that you are busy.



Status of enemies: randomized patrol paths work, but console logic design failed because of unstable ai2_doalarm results and frequent hangs/crashes.
....
There you have it, Samer. Just one problematic area (AI console behavior) and whole mod is useless, because there is a little point in playing hide and seek and having depp console mechanics, when AI is dumb as a duck, only good in following pre-made paths (anything else is a Bingo lotto with crashes and hangs) and cannot be made to provide at least some sort of like-life behavior (which si a must for a stelath part in any game).

here's where we disagree ...
my initial honest reaction to that statement was : you're kidding me right ?
the whole mod \ changes become useless because the ai can't turn the console back off ?? .. so what ? honestly even if that worked I don't think I would have wanted that feature incorporated, it sounds too frustrating from a player's point of view ... I want to encourage stealth ... with that it would be easier to just kill the enemy and be done with it and avoid them turning it back on all together. In addition this first part is supposed to be a small fraction of the level, too much time spent on it would frustrate player from ever continuing it, the real adventure starts once they're in.
So I do appreciate you wanting certain standards when something is associated with your work, but I don't understand at all why the other improvements which are operational should be abandoned if one simple, non essential part of it doesn't work.

If the intention was to help me improve my mod, Jamie interaction\mimicking and the advanced console interactions are improvements in my opinion. Improvements that I can't do myself. So, I would appreciate it if you let me have these script, files for me to update my mod with them. even if it didn't reach Loser standards, it's an improvement to what the mod is now.  Players won't think any less of the mod or your work if the ai doesn't notice the turned on console and turn it back off.

And if you don't want me to have these changes, then I guess thanks for the tease and letting me know that even that these changes that i want and that will improve my mod exist, I'm not allowed to have them.

But, in the end I'm satisfied with this mod, I know there's nothing more I can do from my side to improve it - with the current skills, time and knowledge I have. But there's always room for growth ... and a mod can always be updated smile

Last edited by Samer (3/2/14 13:48)


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#45 3/2/14 17:49

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

I agree with Samer, don't let your week of work on Oni go to waste, we can use what you learned, not only on this mod but those in the future.

Jamie's interaction and advanced console can be used to improve the level and probably others.

I would like to see your code for the AI to randomly choose their next destination in their patrol path, that fits with a concept I had.

If you don't want to post the files on the forum, perhaps you can email them to me.

I always appreciate your advanced thinking with Oni.

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#46 4/2/14 19:20

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

No way this work is going to be wasted, it cost me a cold eye from my thesis supervisor ^_^

HERE IS A RAR ARCHIVE, containing *.oni files and BSL scripts. Sry for no package, but I have a  feeling this "interconnected spaghetti pile of everything" will have to be eventually broken into separate reuseable chunks which can be used independently. In the meantime, have fun (when it does not crashes). The provided work is definitely not finalized, expect a debug message to pop here and there.

Controls of Adco interaction:
Up/Down - selecting an item in the given item bank
Left/Right - switching between item banks
Crouch - input sequence into the console
Jump - exit the Adco mode


Also for Iritscen, here is a small list of encountered issues:

  • BSL ai2_doalarm:
    If "chr_forceholster" is applied on the armed character "X" in a short timeframe after the "X" uses console via ai2_doalarm,
    then when "X" wants to enter combat mode, game crashes.
     

  • BSL ai2_idle: makes the game hang when executed from the dev console.
     

  • BSL sound_impulse_play:
    Messes DMSG prints which use string variables (not literals) that are called in some code block AFTER "sound_impulse_play" command till the end of the code block.
    Under these conditions, DMSGs which ought to print string variables are completely skipped.
     

  • BSL broken IF-ELSE:
    Under hard to define circuumstances, "else" statements get broken and both branches of conditional expressions are executed (IF branch and ELSE branch as well).
    Can be avoided up to a degree by using IF part only, but sometimes ELSE is really required.
     

  • BSL funky "return" behavior:
    In BSL, functions which return a value must have only one return at the end of the function.
    If there are multiple returns present, only the execution path with the very first return is evaluated correctly.
    All other paths than the first one cause expression stack pop failure.
     

  • BSL: local variable creation and evaluation:
    If a local variable is declared inside a function, immediately assigned some value and evaluated in an IF expression,
    it can happen the newly assigned value will NOT be taken into account when evaluating the local variable.
    Workaround is to insert "sleep 1" in between declaration and evaluation or to use function parameters as variables.
     

  • CMBT: RunForAlarm behavior:
    If patrol path is changed for the character "X" ("ai2_dopath" and subsequently "ai2_setjobstate"),
    and the "X" has assigned CMBT profile which utilizes "RunForAlarm" behavior,
    then after the patrol path change if "X" enters combat and enemy triggers the RunForAlarm behavior, game crashes.

Also something smells with ai2_setmovementmode, cannot put exactly a finger on it but it seems if BSL code calls ai2_setmovementmode for some character and patrol path of the character also contains some movementmode assignment, there's a change game will hang.

Last edited by Loser (4/2/14 19:24)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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#47 4/2/14 20:21

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Wow, okay.  Thanks for the detailed response.  I knew BSL was flaky at times, but that's worse than I realized.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#48 7/2/14 18:01

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

Loser, thanks for the files, unfortunately, since the Mac does not have the additional BSL commands from the daodan, I cannot test or play it sad

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#49 7/2/14 18:57

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

There should be a solution for that soon.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#50 8/2/14 18:18

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: NEW LEVEL : Chapter 17: Wilderness Preserve - Hasegawa Adventure.

If anyone is interested, here is a last piece from me before Oni goes away from the HDD - globalized sidekick script.

It requires CMBT, PATR and NEUT files as well. See enclosed overview file for details.

EdT, I feel the pain that MAC does nto support additional BSL commands, however those are documented on Daodan Wiki page, so assumption was made they work across the whole 7th edition platform.

Iritscen, if some work is to be put into those additional BSL commands, then I would like to ask to not only enable them for MAC, but also review the code behind them, pretty please.
Majority of them works fine, but some are downright broken (for example "d_location") and some are malfunctioning (for example "d_powerup").


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

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