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#1 17/4/13 19:57

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

XML Patching: questions and discussion

I saw that the wiki page for xml patching has been updated recently, thanks Iritscen, ans s10k and Alloc for this new mode of modding, that sure will make some things much easier.
however i have some questions, that i hope you can answer, so we'll learn more about this and put it to good use smile

some incompatibilities arise in mods that modify BINAEINOimpact_effects i.e exploding barrel and some of my mods

Exploding barrel adds this to BINAEINOimpact_effects .. if it's made into an xml patch there will be no incompatibility and if any further mods that also add to this file are made as patches there will also be no incompatability.

            
<Material Name="Explosive">
                <ImpactEffect>
                    <Component>Impact</Component>
                    <Modifier>Any</Modifier>
                    <Sound />
                    <Particles>
                        <Particle>
                            <Name>mad_x01</Name>
                            <Orientation>0</Orientation>
                            <Location>4</Location>
                            <Decal1>false</Decal1>
                            <Decal2>true</Decal2>
                        </Particle>
                    </Particles>
                </ImpactEffect>
            </Material>

my question is how would I write the command correctly .. is this right ?

@ADDTO Element "<ImpactEffects>"
<xml>
  <Material Name="Explosive">
                <ImpactEffect>
                    <Component>Impact</Component>
                    <Modifier>Any</Modifier>
                    <Sound />
                    <Particles>
                        <Particle>
                            <Name>mad_x01</Name>
                            <Orientation>0</Orientation>
                            <Location>4</Location>
                            <Decal1>false</Decal1>
                            <Decal2>true</Decal2>
                        </Particle>
                    </Particles>
                </ImpactEffect>
            </Material>
</xml>

and then i save it as same name .oni-patch

this could also solve the oncv\onvl issue, new additions to the onvl can be made as patches.

and be used for the fore-mentioned bugs of vdg stunned enemies can only be thrown by konoko, jewels hit fix, tctfs attacking civs.

and I have a question about the glass mode have you guys figured out how to correctly specify the start and finish of the glass particle (i discussed this with you Iritscen before) by looking at the start and finish of the actual attack, and do you still plan to use wildcards ? If so I suggest that you don't use wildcards, but only modify the original moves, so this won't affect any custom made ones and the modder himself will have to add the particle to new custom trams\onccs, or have it check if it's already added and either remove it or replace it with 0 or something (a non particle) before it readds the glass one, so we won't have to go back and edit a whole lot of mods and force player to redownload them, and we don't want to duplicate particles unnecessarily since it's clear now that we have a limit. it will be a tedious thing though to make text files and name them as all the moves affected by glass mode, so tell me if i can help.

and which mods are you guys actively working on now ? upgraded oncc, knockdown revamp ? or which others ? I can start on the ones that you're not working on ... like the ones I've mentioned, barrel, tctf attacking civs, jewels hit and throws fix or help with the ones that modify a lot of trams ...

also it would be really helpful if examples could be given on the commands here http://wiki.oni2.net/XmlTools like Iritscen gave an example on the unlocking moves on making xml patch mod page .. for example i' having a hard time understanding this : replaceall -value:<string> [-valpositions:<quoted string>] an example would be very helpful :$ 
and a technical question if one xml patch adds content .. and another modifies values in certain position, won't the added content by first one affect the positions ?

Last edited by Samer (17/4/13 19:58)


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#2 17/4/13 21:02

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Samer wrote:

I saw that the wiki page for xml patching has been updated recently, thanks Iritscen, ans s10k and Alloc for this new mode of modding, that sure will make some things much easier.
however i have some questions, that i hope you can answer, so we'll learn more about this and put it to good use smile

Heh, you beat me to making the post where I was going to introduce XML patching.  Oh well.

my question is how would I write the command correctly .. is this right ?

@ADDTO Element "<ImpactEffects>"
<xml>
  <Material Name="Explosive">
                <ImpactEffect>
                    [...]
                </ImpactEffect>
            </Material>
</xml>

and then i save it as same name .oni-patch

Remove the <>s around ImpactEffects and it might work, but I'm not familiar offhand with this mod and I'm out of time to research it tonight.  I don't understand why there's a Material outside the ImpactEffect tag.  That makes it look like it should be in an array of Materials, not ImpactEffects.

this could also solve the oncv\onvl issue, new additions to the onvl can be made as patches.

Yes, that's one use of this feature.

and be used for the fore-mentioned bugs of vdg stunned enemies can only be thrown by konoko, jewels hit fix, tctfs attacking civs.

Yes, but there are performance considerations too.  It's better to use .onis for these mods if we don't think they have a conflict with another mod.

and I have a question about the glass mode have you guys figured out how to correctly specify the start and finish of the glass particle (i discussed this with you Iritscen before) by looking at the start and finish of the actual attack, and do you still plan to use wildcards ?

You're riding the cutting edge a little too closely here, I'm afraid.  I am still talking with s10k and Alloc about this, and there are some thorny issues involved that we need to hash out.  But no, I won't be using a wildcard patch for that mod, if I even make it for now.

and which mods are you guys actively working on now ? upgraded oncc, knockdown revamp ? or which others ? I can start on the ones that you're not working on ... like the ones I've mentioned, barrel, tctf attacking civs, jewels hit and throws fix or help with the ones that modify a lot of trams ...

I am actively in the middle of working on the knockdown/disarm/glass mods that I mentioned in the new "Making" page, but besides that I am mostly focused on stuff inside the old AE's dreaded Globalization folder, so as long as you stay out of there, we probably won't end up duplicating each other's work.

If you want to help with the others, it would be nice, but I'm afraid I need you to be proactive and detail-oriented, because if I feel like I have to supervise, it will take more of my time than doing it myself smile  This means that if you want to make a patch mod like the civilian attack fix, I need to have a paragraph written up about whether the mod can use .onis or why it needs to be a patch, what exactly is getting fixed, and a test case -- somewhere in the game I can see the bug getting fixed by going there before and after installing the mod.  You need to be thoughtful about what changes you are carrying over and clear on their effects; no copy-and-pasting the diffs from a comparison of vanilla-to-mod .xml into a patch file without knowing what they do.  And no more "I tested this weapon mod for a minute and only one thing changed about it and it doesn't work right", because then I have to go back and re-do the work myself more thoroughly ^_^  I'm examining every mod line-by-line as XML, so I need others to do the same if they're going to help.

for example i' having a hard time understanding this : replaceall -value:<string> [-valpositions:<quoted string>] an example would be very helpful :$

Examples for those commands might be nice, but you already have an example of replaceall on the "Making a mod patch" page.  Command parameters in brackets are optional.  You can figure out the rest by trial and error.  Sorry, but that's life on the cutting edge when we're still working on the documentation wink

and a technical question if one xml patch adds content .. and another modifies values in certain position, won't the added content by first one affect the positions ?

Yes, I think the position thing can get us in trouble, so hopefully we don't need to to use that one.  s10k had a more complex feature in mind there, but we decided it wasn't worth the time to implement it until we know it's needed.  So far, this modding technique is only a month old; we'll probably be finding ways to improve it as we go.


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#3 18/4/13 1:03

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

I tested this weapon mod for a minute and only one thing changed about it and it doesn't work right"

Iritscen exaggerating a bit aren't we ? tongue i admit weapons were out of my element but I definitely didn't test them "for a minute". the mercury bow didn't knock down enemies anymore as i said, and the plasma rifle did, as i said , and I still think the secondary scram cannon feature is pointless and it didn't work for me and still hasn't as it's supposed to (continuous single rocket) as i stated before, what i missed was the plasma explosion is supposedly bigger, in game-play it is unnoticeable though smile and AI dodging of sap \ tap is supposedly different, also unnoticeable in actual gameplay. I did test with and without the package tongue I didn't do xml comparison thoroughly true, but if the xml difference is there but in gameplay it's unnoticeable then what's the point and my recommendations for that pack were opinion. anywho ^_^ point taken, you're right, I'll examine everything by thorough xml comparison in addition to gameplay. (I didn't know I could do that before but now I've learned about that feature in Notepad++)

This means that if you want to make a patch mod like the civilian attack fix, I need to have a paragraph written up about whether the mod can use .onis or why it needs to be a patch, what exactly is getting fixed, and a test case -- somewhere in the game I can see the bug getting fixed by going there before and after installing the mod. smile  This means that if you want to make a patch mod like the civilian attack fix, I need to have a paragraph written up about whether the mod can use .onis or why it needs to be a patch, what exactly is getting fixed, and a test case -- somewhere in the game I can see the bug getting fixed by going there before and after installing the mod.
You need to be thoughtful about what changes you are carrying over and clear on their effects; no copy-and-pasting the diffs from a comparison of vanilla-to-mod .xml into a patch file without knowing what they do.

I'm very clear on their effects, since you know tongue I found the bugs and the solutions in the first place tongue and after Loser of course, I think I'm the person who has worked most extensively with TRAMs, (paradox and EdT know much more about new animations though) so you'll need to trust me that I know what I'm doing, (unlike weapons\ bsl tongue)

I stated what each fix does briefly when I uploaded them but to clarify further what each does and why i think it should be a patch:

*tctf attacking civilians contrary to what was believed before it's not caused by some engine glitch where tctfs see civs near syndicate and mistake them for civs.
it's caused by some civs having Neutral as their team in file BINACJBOCharacter.oni of level8_Final
fix is to set the team to TCTF as the rest of the civs in that level.
why xml-patch : it will be easy to replace the Neutral with TCTF and no other characters use that team in the BINACJBOCharacter.oni file so no other effect except civilians, this is a bug fix so it should be present no matter what mods are installed, some mods alter the Binac file of that level, example is my smp-conversion there are other mods that may also alter that level, Alita last order shapeshifted for example and overwrite it with the unfixed one.
therefore it's best to have this as a patch where we're finding  Neutral in team flag and changing it to TCTF.
where can it be seen: it has been well documented before by you guys .. save point 1 for example when the tctf trooper attacks the female scientist who says they're maniacs you got here just in time .. or where the tctf attacks the civilian that gives you a vdg and says you're the one who should be using that weapons. after mod installation : they won't attack civs.


*VDG stunned throws fix : only konoko's throws can throw enemies stunned by the vdg, for players who use other characters this is a problem and also for AI.
fix is adding

  <Shortcut>
                    <FromState>Stunned</FromState>
                    <Length>6</Length>
                    <ReplaceAtomic>yes</ReplaceAtomic>
                </Shortcut>

to the TRAMS of tgt throw files ... since other packs might also modify the TRAMS (glass, knockdwon revamp, particle trails etc..) it's best to have it as xml patch .. and this is a bug fix.
test : anywhere use vdg stun enemy try to throw with konoko : she can throw them, stun enemy with vdg try to throw with any other character besides konoko: can't throw .. after install all characters can throw enemies.
P.S : also lack of this mod causes problems with some custom TRACS that have a throw from konoko and a throw from other character let's say Striker, when enemy is vdg stunned and you try to throw him it will sometimes lead to play the TRAM of the throw from Striker and the tgt of Konoko's throw.

*Jewels hit can be best made as an oni combination xml-patch mod, I'll explain why:
in vanilla oni .. TRACS based on comguy's (thugs, comguy, bots, light tctf, griffin, muro) have a TRAMCOMCOMhit_jewels in them but that TRAM has no animation while TRAMSTRCOMhit_jewels used in striker based tracs does, (strikers, tankers, ninjas, elites, swats, barabus) ..
solution was  copying TRAMSTRCOMhit_jewels adjusting heights of the tram to suit the comguys, and renaming it into a new TRAMCOMCOMhit_jewels (this replaces the TRAMCOMCOMhit_jewels that had null animation with  one that has same effect\animation of the strikers' jewels hit.
however : the droids shouldn't be affected, but their TRACS is the comguy's trac so whatever affects comguy trac also affects bot's trac, therefore we needed to give the droid a new trac called TRACninjabot_animations that didn't have the TRAMCOMCOMhit_jewels in it but had TRAMBOTCOMhit_jewels with no hit jewels effect instead,
then and here's the important part we'd need to change the oncc of the droid to link to this new TRAC instead of the comguy trac. so here an xml-patch is most suitable to simply replace
TRACcomguy_animations in ONCCninjabot with TRACninjabot_animations.

currently we have the modified ONCCninjabot as oni file however any mods that also affect the bots ONCC won't apply or cause incompatibility with it, example upgraded onccs, head shot mod etc .. thus the xml patch.
the mod will also include oni files : TRAMBOTCOMhit_jewels, TRAMCOMCOMhit_jewels and TRACninjabot_animations.

I know this sounds a bit complicated but it's a simple substitution thing.
test: perform willow kick on comguy : no effect .. after mod : he is affected, while bot still isn't.

so I'm gonna try to make those 3 packages in addition to the exploding barrel, I was also thinking about Upgraded ONCCs, since I'm very familiar with ONCC modifications and we've reported before female cops have too low health and I know how to fix it. (I'll use xml comparison for sure)
then if you'd like to split the work with the knockdown, disarm trams (since there are many trams and it will be tedious to make many text files with all these trams names) I'd like to help, but if you have some automation process or a faster method then that won't be necessary i guess.
I also think best way to test if the patch gets written correctly into the xml is to decompile the raw file after the xml-patch is installed and then reconvert the affected oni file to xml.
I wish s10k could combine xmltools with his vago gui, where there's a menu to choose the commands from, and you get the preview of how the xml file would be like after the patch is applied. (just a wish tongue)

Last edited by Samer (18/4/13 1:15)


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#4 18/4/13 7:36

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

I'm very clear on their effects, since you know tongue I found the bugs and the solutions in the first place

Sure, I do trust your knowledge in this area.  I was just making a general statement about the effects of any kind of mods.

it's caused by some civs having Neutral as their team in file BINACJBOCharacter.oni of level8_Final
fix is to set the team to TCTF as the rest of the civs in that level.

Yes, you had me at "BINACJBOCharacter".  Unfortunately as you pointed out, we really have to patch that file when it's affected by something, because of all the mods that might want to alter it.  I'm honestly surprised that geyser et al. were mistaken about the cause of this bug, it would have been easy for them to see that some civvies had a wrong team setting.  But if the mod works, it works.

only konoko's throws can throw enemies stunned by the vdg, for players who use other characters this is a problem and also for AI.
fix is adding [...] to the TRAMS of tgt throw files ... since other packs might also modify the TRAMS (glass, knockdwon revamp, particle trails etc..) it's best to have it as xml patch

Ugh, I guess so.  I hadn't gotten to look at this fix yet (I have all your fixes sitting in a to-do folder to look at), but if it modifies throw_tgt anims then I guess it needs to be a patch.  Fortunately it's not many files.

Jewels hit can be best made as an oni combination xml-patch mod, I'll explain why:
in vanilla oni .. TRACS based on comguy's (thugs, comguy, bots, light tctf, griffin, muro) have a TRAMCOMCOMhit_jewels in them but that TRAM has no animation

What do you mean by no animation?

however : the droids shouldn't be affected, but their TRACS is the comguy's trac so whatever affects comguy trac also affects bot's trac, therefore we needed to give the droid a new trac called TRACninjabot_animations that didn't have the TRAMCOMCOMhit_jewels in it but had TRAMBOTCOMhit_jewels with no hit jewels effect instead

I'll tell you what, though, the Tankers shouldn't be affected by hit_jewels either, since they're SLDs.  Edit: Actually, one could make an argument either way; if the Tankers are simulating pain because they were programmed to put on a show as professional wrestlers (source), then they might play along with a hit_jewels too, just for show; at the same time one might wonder why the Syndicate would use an SLD with this programming intact, not to mention that Oni contradicts this premise by stating that the Tankers are paramilitary SLDs (source).  Anyway, I do agree that since this requires an ONCC modification, it should be a patch.

so I'm gonna try to make those 3 packages in addition to the exploding barrel, I was also thinking about Upgraded ONCCs, since I'm very familiar with ONCC modifications and we've reported before female cops have too low health and I know how to fix it.

That sounds good.  As far as knockdown/disarm/etc., I'm probably going to make an automated solution.  There's a couple different approaches I'm considering, so I'm going to have to keep that work for myself.  But I'll definitely appreciate help with some of the other mods.

I also think best way to test if the patch gets written correctly into the xml is to decompile the raw file after the xml-patch is installed and then reconvert the affected oni file to xml.

I have done that on occasion, but for the most part, I'm satisfied with a simple test of the combined level data in-game to see if the patch took effect.  Also, there used to be some temporary files left behind by the AEI when applying patches that one could examine to see if the patch worked (without needing to decompile levels), but I don't know if they're still being left behind.  If you do decompile a level to check for evidence of a patch, remember that OniSplit supports -export:[resource name], it's a great way to avoid making a folder of 10,000 files every time you want to look into level 0 smile

I wish s10k could combine xmltools with his vago gui, where there's a menu to choose the commands from, and you get the preview of how the xml file would be like after the patch is applied. (just a wish tongue)

Well, Vago does work with XmlTools already.  I'm not sure that we need him to create some sort of file-diff view or a text view that shows the patched file, as there are already good file-comparison tools out there.  Perhaps just a button for quickly applying a patch without needing to use the CL would be nice, and then Vago could pass the before and after XMLs to the file-diff app of our choice.


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#5 19/4/13 16:49

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

What do you mean by no animation?

i meant they don't play the hit jewels animation ... the COMCOMhit_jewels has the same animation of COMCOMhit_body which is basically saying ouch and not doing anything (you can see it in game by doing the willow kick on a comguy without the jewels fix)
I like the idea of tankers not affected, would give them an edge, I can do that .. would only need a simple change in their TRAC.


btw I also forgot this fix : back punch throw of TCTF swats not doing any damage :
fixed by by changing damage frame in TRAMTCTCOMthrow_bk_p_tgt.oni  from 170 to 70 .. fix for this was discovered by Loser I think ... this will be combined with the stunned throws fix .. they had damage done at frame 170 while the move is actually less than 170 frames so the damage never happens so most probably they mistakenly added the 1 ... and frame 70 or 71 is when the target hits the ground.
test : shapeshift into tctf swat or blackops swat .. do the back throw on any character and allow displaying health points on characters : their health won't drop after they're thrown, after pack their health drops as it's supposed to.


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#6 19/4/13 18:46

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Samer wrote:

they had damage done at frame 170 while the move is actually less than 170 frames

Lol, Bungie.  Sure, that would be nice to fix too.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#7 20/4/13 8:01

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

By the way, it looks like the hit_jewels fix is online at http://mods.oni2.net/node/131, so maybe you can reuse that node for the patch (and any other nodes that are already online).  Feel free to change that mod name if you have a better idea.  A player is not going to have any clue what a Jewel Fix is (yes, there's a description, but still...).

Also, that damage frame fix should probably be a part of this other mod: http://mods.oni2.net/node/86.  But I haven't analyzed that mod yet to see if its changes are needed on top of the Andrashi TRAM, or how it relates to that mod at all, etc.  Just pointing out that your fix might belong there more than in a Stunned Throws package, or maybe they should all be in one package.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#8 20/4/13 8:30

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

actually I thought Loser doesn't want his pack to be used anymore ? "Andrashi Tram" pack ..
if you're still planning to update that pack .. I reported a while ago there's an issue with knockdown knocking down your own character even if you disable knockdown revamp, after further testing it turned out that the Andrashi TRAM pack is responsible for that ... I'm not sure what is done in xml though for it to have that effect, but in gameplay it's noticeable when Andrashi pack is installed, so you may want to hold on for the Andrashi pack or investigate what may cause the knockdown effect in it, and it switches the tanker sounds of the super moves for some reason and removes the hit impact from the right and left tanker running kick as i mentioned before here http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … 174#p36174

I've also never tested the "fixed_moves" by love_Oni, first time i saw it was when i was updating some packs description on the depot and this didn't have one so I got the description from the readme in it, haven't had time to test if it does what it says ... but difference between it and AndrashiTram .. Andrashitram's most prominent effect is making super moves semivulnerable and semi blockable .. this should be optional as some players don't want that because it makes gameplay harder .. while love_Oni's pack sounds like it fixes bugs and should be mandatory if so.

I was actually thinking of having a "Throws fix package" that combines the stunned throw and the tctf damage throw fix since the damage fix is very trivial on its own ... and I don't feel comfortable adding files to other people's packages that i don't know much about what they do.
yes hit jewels is online and I've actually included it in character additives before, i'll reuse the node for the xml patch and come up with a clearer name smile (and remove it from character additives when it's uploaded)

Last edited by Samer (20/4/13 8:50)


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#9 20/4/13 14:46

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Samer wrote:

*tctf attacking civilians contrary to what was believed before it's not caused by some engine glitch where tctfs see civs near syndicate and mistake them for civs.
it's caused by some civs having Neutral as their team in file BINACJBOCharacter.oni of level8_Final
fix is to set the team to TCTF as the rest of the civs in that level.

Members of the Neutral team are not viewed by TCTF team members as a threat (hostilethreat to be precise) till the TCTF team member gets attacked by some Neutral team member. Even then, only the one specific attacking Neutral team member is viewed as a threat by the one specific attacked TCTF team member.

Thus the level 8 behavior of TCTF units IS A BUG. However, setting the team affinity of affected civilians to TCTF team is definitely a quick fix - members of the TCTF team don't attack each other.

Samer wrote:

actually I thought Loser doesn't want his pack to be used anymore ? "Andrashi Tram" pack ..

Exactly. Since all fixes it contained were "rediscovered" and redistributed by Samer (VDG stun for all classes' throws, Rifle disarm for all classes, various small TRAM fixes), the package serves no purpose other than wasting space and being riddled with bugs. It is a package done at the dawn of the HEX era, so all modifications are quite hackish and as result of that some of them will probably even cause Onisplit errors upon XML extraction attempt.

That's why I personally want the Andrashi TRAM package (and other HEX era packages of mine) to completely disappear. They were NOT created with Onisplit in mind. However, as those mods went sort of "open source", I have no privileges over them, so if somebody insists on keeping them in the list, then they will be sitting there.


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#10 20/4/13 14:54

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Wow, amazing how Loser appears out of the ether when we say his name smile  Hope you're doing well, thanks for the clarifications.  I actually did not intend to include the Andrashi TRAMs as-is, but to figure out what they did and cross-reference that against some files that love_Oni has posted (not just that fix package I mentioned).  Though I honestly don't know when I'll have the time to do that, and you're probably right that OniSplit won't even extract them.  But your TRAMs didn't just fix bugs... they adjusted vulnerability windows and blockability, as Samer said.  Those still seem like valuable adjustments to me.


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#11 20/4/13 18:18

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Loser wrote:

Since all fixes it contained were "rediscovered" and redistributed by Samer (VDG stun for all classes' throws)

I don't want to be splitting hairs but for the sake of accuracy AndrashiTram doesn't contain any fix for vdg stunned throws ... at least not the one that was distributed with the previous 2 Editions (nor did i find any discussion of that issue before I've asked about it in 2012)... taking any random tgt from the package none has
       

 <Shortcut>
                    <FromState>Stunned</FromState>
                    <Length>6</Length>
                    <ReplaceAtomic>yes</ReplaceAtomic>
                </Shortcut>

and in gameplay characters besides konoko can't throw vdg stunned enemis with the pack installed ...

Rifle disarm for all classes

I presumed by this that you added disarm TRAMS to the TRACs of characters that don't have it however since I don't see any TRACs modified in the pack and there's only KON\REDRIFthrow_fw_p and throw_bk_p originally as the only rifle disarm moves in the game .. did you do that by adding the DropWeapon flag to the throws tgt ? (somehow I presumed they have it from the vanilla)
dropweapon flag added to throws can also be combined with the throws fix pack.


I can also isolate the part where you modified the super moves vulnerability and "blockability" and make it a separate xml-patch package call it Semi-Vulnerable Supers or Less Spamable Supers or something of the sort as an extra challenging mod .. because I quite like that aspect of it myself.

Last edited by Samer (20/4/13 18:29)


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#12 20/4/13 18:22

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

no idea how i double posted :\

Last edited by Samer (20/4/13 18:24)


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#13 20/4/13 18:32

s10k
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From: Portugal
Registered: 14/1/07
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Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

I love the Andrashi Melee System, using it locally. Love how it makes the game harder (adding extra health and less spammy moves). (I'm using it combined with Brutal AI for extra challenging)

An official (and fixed) release for AEI2 would be great.

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#14 20/4/13 18:39

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Fwiw, there's also an older version of the TRAMs with way more files.  love_Oni had asked what the heck that was about a long time ago, and sadly, no one really addressed it: http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … 161#p27161.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#15 20/4/13 19:13

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Love how it makes the game harder (adding extra health)

neither packs you mentioned affect health tongue upgraded oncc does.

@Iritscen wow ok .. here's the deal the trams in the AndrashiMelee system that has been distributed with the last 2 editions are very different than the ones you linked ... the throws one here : http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … php?id=709
does contain the stunned throws fix (guess i can't take credit for that anymore tongue) and contains TRAC modification and RIF disarm TRAMS as it's supposed to (the one in the edition doesn't) ...
so whoever repackaged the AndrashiTram for edition really messed it up tongue

Here's what I'll do :
a throws fix xml patch mod : combines stunned throws fix (apparently by loser originally :$,  "rediscovered" by me tongue) and contains the fix for tctf damage throw
a rifle disarm package mod : this is a bit different since it adds new trams and also adds them to Trac so it will be an oni combined xml patch pack (patch applies to TRACs)..
(these should be core)

and a Less Spamable Super moves xml patch this is optional for those who want an extra challenge.
and then I'll take a look at love_oni's fixes ... as he said tongue I didn't notice much (or any :$) difference in the gameplay but I'll take a look more thoroughly in xml comparison, then I'll either combine the hit jewels fix with it as VariousTramFixes (throws having its separate mod) or leave it separate if i feel love_oni's fixes are not too significant, I'll also revisit the older Andrashi tram fixes here http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … php?id=700 .. because they're different than the edition one which i've been testing and exploring all his time so i might have missed what else it does (or was supposed to do)

edit: actually reading on the wiki http://wiki.oni2.net/AE:Combat_system what andrashi pack was meat to do (first time i've read this)  there seems so much that it does that i'm not sure which are necessarily considered bug fixes or just extra challenging .. pickup slides is a bug fix but combo changes or semivulenrable throws or throw distance change is more of extra challenge imo .. so i don't know how you want to address this Iritscen. (this will take much more time than I expected if I were to isolate the bug fixes here and the extra challenge because it apparently also changes many moves than just supers)

for now I'll just gather all bug fixes .. and when I'm done (much later) I'll try to combine all the extra challenge stuff from old and new Andrashi packs.

I'll report findings\progress\recommendations here.

Last edited by Samer (20/4/13 19:39)


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#16 20/4/13 19:28

s10k
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Samer wrote:

Love how it makes the game harder (adding extra health)

neither packs you mentioned affect health tongue upgraded oncc does.

Oh indeed.  smile

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#17 20/4/13 21:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

this will take much more time than I expected

Yes, I was hesitant to even bring up love_Oni's post because it's such a big complicated mess.  If you can sort it all out, I will definitely be indebted to you, but no pressure.  Just take it one step at a time and describe the categories of fixes that you discover, then we can work out which ones should be core; so far I am inclined to agree with your suggestions on what should be core, but I think we need to approach this more systematically.  I would suggest, though, that you don't use this thread for that subject.  Either make a new thread or a new wiki page (it seems like a wiki page is better for this purpose, but it's up to you).


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#18 28/4/13 13:59

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

The fixes here should be included in any attempt at synthesis: http://mods.oni2.net/node/283

I've already inspected these files, and for the most part I can't tell what they do!  A number of the files have no changes from vanilla, so I don't know why they're included, unless they were needed for linking to other, changed TRAMs.  The only beneficial effect I saw in-game came from the fixed NINPIS_run files.  Normally, running backwards with a pistol in hand causes the ninja's gun hand (and thus aim) to lower when he comes to a stop.  These files allow his aim to remain steady as he stops his backwards run.  Besides that, I don't know how many of these files have lasting value.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#19 28/4/13 14:38

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Interpolation fixes are usually meant to ease transition from certain animations to the idle animation ... I use this a lot in giving TRAMs to characters they weren't meant for .. Example giving a ninja kick to a character that has comguy idle pose.
It should be most noticeable after combos (carousel cheat may help)
I'm presuming what they do from the name, haven't checked them yet.
p.s i also haven't had time to work on the other fixes yet :$ been a little under the weather (stupid spring allergies) hopefully i'll start on them this week.


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#20 28/4/13 15:21

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Sure, no problem.  Some of these do have interpolation adjustments, but some of them just change blocking and invuln. settings.  It's kind of a mixed bag, despite the name.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#21 7/5/13 2:38

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

can xml tools do commands in sequence ...
for example can it remove a section from xml and then add another one instead.
Smart Barabas uses BRUTAL AI melee profile and then barabas TCTF Melee is changed. but what if player only wants the challenging barabas and not affecting the other characters ? (that's why we had Brutal Konoko, only affects konoko and not the others)

what i'm thinking is .. is it posible to have an xml patch that first deletes Barabas's entire melee section
from <MELE Id="8310"> to first </MELE> after it .. and then re-add the melee profile from Smart Barabas .. it's easy to add but how to remove ? and can it run it in sequence first remove and then add or will it end up removing itself.
or is there a way to apply the replace command to an entire section ... this can be very useful, replace the entire section between 2 parents with another one ...


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#22 7/5/13 9:38

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Sure, you can list as many @ADDTOs or @REMOVEs as you want within a patch file and it executes them in order.  I'm having a little trouble figuring out the syntax to remove one MELE ID, though, and I'm out of time right now, so maybe someone else can help with that.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#23 7/5/13 10:52

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

ok thanks, I'll be waiting for the how to from anyone .. because i can't figure it out :$


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#24 7/5/13 13:53

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

Sorry, but I think we've already written most of what's going to be said.  Granted, the XmlTools wiki page could use some work.  But if you look at the couple of patch mods out so far, I think they're pretty self-explanatory, and the XmlTools page documents all the features.  Maybe we didn't take a perspective that was far enough out when writing the documentation, and assumed some knowledge instead of explaining it.  I'll see what I can do, but in the meantime, it's better to ask specific questions than to wait for an immaculately-written tutorial that might never happen.  Then again, it's probably all going to change if s10k implements a real scripting language, so maybe just do nothing for now ^_^


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#25 7/5/13 14:39

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: XML Patching: questions and discussion

I just want to learn how to remove a section .. Like what i've asked, the melee profile of barabas aka an entire xml section, not a value. (that's my specific question, you said you couldn't figure out the syntax and you were out of time to answer that question)
and to be honest yes the wiki page is a bit vague (for me) i'm not experienced at commands, that's probably why i don't even use onisplit commands but resort to a gui .. You need to remember that not all of us are experienced with computers the only modding i make is within oni .. i'm like what's an array what's a syntax ..

but I do learn from experience, that's how i started with xml, but Edt always answered my questions till i was able to do stuff on my own .. I'm new to this ..
so i hope s10k or you again tell me how do i write a command to remove an xml section. Once the knowledge is shared in a dumbed down manner more modders will be able to use it especially that these mods are for the community not personal usage.
It's not that i want to be dependent i learnt the addto from tutorial but i can't figure the remove thing .. I want to remove the lines between 2 flags the remove used so far has been to remove certain values and not several lines.


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