Oni Central Forum

A forum for the Oni community

You are not logged in.

#1 30/11/12 13:22

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

*This package adds a new character : BGI Hammer (or BGI Shocker)
This big cyborg is a force to reckon with, his attacks are powerful including shockwaves and electric shocks.

*Thanks to Ltemplar for the awesome model and textures, and some of the animations.


Video demonstrating his most prominent moves : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VlUBaQWuXg
(the small shockwaves push enemies away but cause minimal damage, the bigger shockwave causes higher damage and knockdown, the Thunder clap shockwave stuns enemies with minimal damage)

Download package 22023BGI_Hammer through the AEInstaller

2012-11-30_194302.jpg
2012-11-30_194647.jpg
2012-11-22_023122.jpg

Depot link: http://mods.oni2.net/node/225

Last edited by Samer (1/7/13 17:25)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#2 30/11/12 14:50

s10k
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Awesome work Samer and Ltemplar. This model looks great! It looks too big although, is he taller than Barabas?

Offline

#3 30/11/12 14:56

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

yes he is, and it was intentional. He's stronger and heavier than barabus.

but btw Barabus's size is not fixed .. he uses a random size between 0.95 and 1.05 .. so in comparison to the 0.95 he may seem bigger but to the 1.05 he's not much bigger (1.07 for hammer).

Last edited by Samer (30/11/12 15:04)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#4 30/11/12 15:27

Coyote
Member
From: Paradise
Registered: 3/7/07

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

great material for boss...he needs his own level big_smile


Does your blood burn when you kill? Mine does

Offline

#5 30/11/12 15:46

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Hammer looks great!  In the BINACHAR what melee id should we use for Hammer?

Offline

#6 30/11/12 17:33

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

in my tests I found that hard elite melee (number 21) works well for him because his heavy kick, like the elite, works best from a distance ..
I may upload a video soon of hammer as playable character and fighting him as an opponent.


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#7 30/11/12 21:00

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Quick demo of the Hammer's fighting ability.  He is awesome!
http://youtu.be/p_YL_RvDpD0

Offline

#8 30/11/12 23:40

Knox
Member
From: (File Missing)
Registered: 15/8/11

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

I like this. A lot.


"New car, caviar, four star daydream, think I'll buy me a football team."
Oni fan since 2001.

Offline

#9 1/12/12 1:34

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Thanks for the video EdT smile .. as an opponent he might lack a bit of speed especially when outnumbered but he makes up for it in power.
that parking lot looks real good btw.


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#10 1/12/12 1:49

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

He's really fun, feels clunky but he seems good enough to fight without being too annoying.


Oni IRC | Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!

Offline

#11 1/12/12 6:42

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Awesome job guys, keep it up ^_^

However, from looking at its moves (Samer's video) the gameplay balance of this character is a bit questionable. That does not mean I am trying to fit the Hammer character into some sort of "universal overal balance" criteria. No, no, he is an exceptional character with heavy use of particle attacks. The unspoken neccessity of a blue shield in order to successfully combat the Hammer is a nice addition if he is meant to be a boss character, but still I think particle attacks should deal less knockback, should not knockdown enemies that easily and more importantly should cause less stun time (ThunderClap is seriously over the top).

Other than that, great. 45° salute for this work.

Last edited by Loser (1/12/12 6:43)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

Offline

#12 1/12/12 8:09

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

hey loser .. thanks for the feedback
the knockback shockwaves of : third kick, forward kick, and forward crouch punch causes minimal damage (1 to 5) and it only pushes enemies back, (knockback value 5 to 10) doesn't knock them down, in the video characters are ai2_allpasive (frozen) when they're not frozen, the knockback is almost unnoticeable cause they move forward again quickly in addition to the moves that end with these shockwaves are slow and interruptable and the radius of the wave being small (can be avoided with a single dodge) so i feel that's a good balance for them.

the forward punch (thunder clap) causes stun same as the vdg (100 to 200 frames, and depends on the character, muro and konoko for example are stunned much less time) in addition there's a forced pause in the TRAM after the move to discourage spamming .. the damage here is very minimal therefore it's a crowd control means .. i think of it as a willow kick and hit foot ouch equivalent but on a larger scale, also as you pointed out wearing a blue shield makes it useless. But I see what you're saying maybe I'll decrease the stun value to 50-100 in a future update ..

However my problem remains which is what I asked about before on the various character thread.. the telekinetic part of the heavy kick removes blue shield immediately upon contact .. which is a problem cause once he uses it once the player becomes fully vulnerable. mutant muro's telekinetic attack also has same effect (removes blue shield completely) I was trying to figure out how to make it not remove the shield that quickly but cause little consecutive damage to it like any other damaging particle .. if you can help me figure that out I'll appreciate it .. except if it's like you said hard coded for that damage type and we can't do anything about it sad

Last edited by Samer (1/12/12 8:21)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#13 4/12/12 4:16

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

A new video :

Can No One Defeat the Hammer ?!
Who do you think beat the hammer ? Golden TCTF, Casey, Kojiro, Hayate ... ?
Watch to find out and tell me who do you think put up the best fight against him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv50psQA … e=youtu.be

bit long but wanted to showcase the different fighting styles.



..............

P.S : the hammer is kinda abusing the heavy kick (electric shock attack) a lot :\ (as much as hard elite abuses cannon ball) .. so I tried other melee IDs :
Swat's melee ID didn't utilize the heavy punch or kick at all
Tanker's made him dodge and jump a lot which doesn't really fit such a heavy character, but could be a good fit too
Striker same issue jumping and using low kick (a weak move for the hammer) too much
Barabas's makes him use heavy kick on close range when it should be used from a distance (because barabas uses his heavy kick ie earthquaker on closer range)
mutant muro made him too clumsy .. he'd turn away from attacker often for some reason.

so in short I know he abuses the heavy kick a lot in the vid but it's because there's no proper melee id for him .. maybe I'll get to making a new custom melee profile for all custom characters one day. Or I have to tone down the attack in the next version (increase charging time before attack, make semi vulnerable, increase pause after attack, decrease weight in TRAC, or I could have 2 heavy kick attacks : rhino charge instead of having ir run kick and the electric with 50 50 weight in the TRAC so there's a 50 chance you get either) but I should point out, the telekinetic part of it doesn't do damage and if character has vdg or another weapon it can still shoot while suspended and interrupt the attack before the electric discharge damaging part)

Last edited by Samer (4/12/12 4:23)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#14 4/12/12 5:30

ltemplar
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 23/8/12

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

The particles can be dodged(because the are slow)..so the best way to deal with that attack is simple outrun them(in dash mode)and throw him(while near) .

the rest is acceptable..in my opinion(except thunderclap move - too long stun effect as loser pointed out).

Last edited by ltemplar (4/12/12 5:32)

Offline

#15 4/12/12 6:02

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

I didn't understand .. the problem is he uses it (heavy kick : telekinetic and electric discharge) too much due to the melee id .. not with how to dodge it and the fact that it drains all the blue shield immediately.
as for the stun effect I'll decrease it in the next version a couple of frames.

Last edited by Samer (4/12/12 6:03)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#16 4/12/12 13:06

ltemplar
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 23/8/12

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Well to be honest he is using it like most of the players will be(if not even more)..so i don't see the problem in it.
What regarding blue shield..tell me which particle.. is causing this effect ...the telekinetic one or discharging one?

EDIT:
in the BINA3RAPw13_grn_f02 you have

                    <Damage>1</Damage> - it should be 0 not 1(it do 1 dmg per 0,2 sec.)
                    <StunDamage>200</StunDamage>
                    <KnockBack>2</KnockBack>
                    <DamageType>2</DamageType>
                    <SelfImmune>1</SelfImmune>

So if you set that 1 dmg. is done by 0,2 sec(or more..because of lift effect)..this create that all 30 prts. do 30X5 = 150 dmg. per sec(for shield)..No wonder that this lift effect drain the blue shield so fast.

next one

w13_grn_p01.

<DamageChar>
                    <Damage>15</Damage> it also shuld be set on 0 instead of 15
                    <StunDamage>20</StunDamage>
                    <KnockBack>-4.5</KnockBack>
                    <DamageType>6</DamageType>
                    <SelfImmune>1</SelfImmune>

the dmg is set on 15 so it will "kill" the shield..if so many copies of it will be released in such short period of time (see the emitter prt. re spawning time) 30 copies in 0,1 so
30x15 = 450 dmg...(shield have it something like 200 dmg points)

So in reality you don't only need to monitor how many dmg. the prt. do..but also ,how many copies the one emitter can lunch in short period of time, and if it is repetitive process or there are released in one go.

Tell me if this helped you?

Last edited by ltemplar (4/12/12 13:34)

Offline

#17 4/12/12 16:21

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

thanks smile will test that soon .. though if it has that damage why doesn't it cause damage to the characters .. the telekinetic part.


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#18 9/12/12 10:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

ltemplar wrote:

in the BINA3RAPw13_grn_f02 you have

                    <Damage>1</Damage> - it should be 0 not 1(it do 1 dmg per 0,2 sec.)
next one

w13_grn_p01.

<DamageChar>
                    <Damage>15</Damage> it also shuld be set on 0 instead of 15

Tell me if this helped you?

Didn't work ... changing the damage value to 0 made it lose it's desired effect ..when I changed it to 0 it didn't carry the target anymore instead it dragged it very quickly it in a weird way .. I also tried 1 instead of 0 same thing .. no carrying effect ..
only damage = 15 for p01 worked .. not lower values ..
I don't understand why .. maybe someone can test it and see what's causing this ?

Last edited by Samer (9/12/12 10:11)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#19 10/12/12 1:43

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Sigh... HERE it was already explained for you, Samer.

Ltemplar, thank you for tying to help, but the post caused only confusion.

Samer, to reharse key parts once again, damageType 6 (pickup) uses DAMAGE VALUE to inflict "pickup damage" to characters. That means from damageType 6 (Pickup), the value in DAMAGE tag will not drain health, but will be used for the pickup mechanism. However, even tough the value in the DAMAGE tag does not make characters lose HP, it still damages the shield as all other damageTypes.

And since character has to have its "pickup damage = 100" in order to enter pickup state, and because the "pickup damage" decreases over time pretty quickly, this all means the pickup particles have to deal quite a big damage (such us 15) in order to cross the threshold value of 100, so the affected character can enter pickup status. This condition effectively means the pickup HAS TO WEAR DOWN THE SHIELD FAST, because it has to deal over 100 "pickup damage" (does not hurt HP wise, but still drains the shield). If it does not deal over 100 "pickup damage" really fast, then the decrease mechanism ensures the affected character's "total pickup damage" never crosses the value of 100 and the character won't enter pickup state.

Last edited by Loser (10/12/12 1:45)


"I am just a mere reflection of what I would be."

Offline

#20 10/12/12 3:36

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Ok thanks loser .. I didn't fully undersatnd your first post before, but now I do. I thought i missed something when ltemplar said it should be 0.
Either way thanks both.
I guess a better way will be to make the move have a low weight in the trac as a second heavy kick so it's not abused too much, for the next version.

Last edited by Samer (10/12/12 11:50)


Join our Oni Facebook Group
Check My YouTube Channel for my Oni Videos.
Check My Wiki page for all my stuff

Offline

#21 10/12/12 5:20

ltemplar
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 23/8/12

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Loser.
He was asking ..why the blue shield is drained so quickly..So I answered.
I haven't tested this PICKUP DAMAGE thing yet, so I presume you are right in that mater. However I don't understand why pickup damage value must be equal 100 and can't be decreased(in entering pickup state rule). It's hard-coded or have something to do with overall fall damage?

Last edited by ltemplar (10/12/12 5:23)

Offline

#22 11/12/12 15:06

Lukas Kreator
Member
Registered: 7/5/10

Re: NEW CHARACTER: * BGI Hammer* Version 1 Release

Just passing by to say he looks absolutely awesome!

Didn't download and test it yet myself, but I plan to.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB