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#26 2/10/12 17:31

EdT
Moderator

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Strange: Email all the files ONCC, TXMP, TRMA to me, that's is the only way I can test and fix.  Did you have issues with the Hanako TRBS I sent a few days ago?

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#27 2/10/12 18:10

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

ok I emailed you the package ..
I managed to use ltemplar's fixed head and shoulders which don't have double sided polygons yet the buffer problem remains, so it's not the double sided polygon issue. and there's no need to pursue that further ltemplar, no need for the scene.
in the package i sent u Ed the trbs is using the dae with the fixed shoulder and head .. u still have my original trbs with the double sided polygons as well if needed.
hanako works fine in all tests.
with the bot buffer overflow happens with any moves with motion blur such as REDCOMkick_heavy or moonshadow or bulletproof

btw when u can update the hanako package please :$


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#28 3/10/12 1:21

ltemplar
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Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Tell me If hammer do this Buffer overflow things? If not then that seams that  it's  probably caused by flowing factors : 1-not all filed polygons, 2- to many polygons for one part of the model, 3-bad transitions between polygons (overflow off two or more parts with not filled poly).4-Size of it?

As I wrote before this model is done in completely different way than all original(low poly) models. I can recreate it from scratch if needed with smaller number of polygons(but this will also require the new UVW and Texturing work).

Last edited by ltemplar (3/10/12 1:21)

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#29 3/10/12 7:32

EdT
Moderator

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Itemplar: I figured out why we are having problems with your dae. Your program 3dsMax 7 is using <up_axis>Z_UP</up_axis>.
However, Oni and the 3d programs XSI and Cheetah3D uses Y_UP, so that is why the rotations get messed up for us.

Another issue with the BGI ninjabot, did you use symmetry for the right side?

Now, how to fix the problem...  I don't know... 

But at least now we now who to contact when we need a convert a Max file smile

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#30 3/10/12 7:51

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

I thought OniSplit was supposed to handle Z_UP files, at least if it's declared as Z_UP in the DAE markup....


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#31 3/10/12 9:08

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Strange I'm using Softimage XSI to convert thous models...no 3dmax (man I haven't use it from 5  yers now) So i don't really know where you get that information....
ALL DAE is from XSI ...
I'm using to model blender the newest version..because it's the most up to date(sculpture.etc)
Well my computer is pretty old(hard drive)

Strange..maybe i put plug in max form..or
But i will check if this version of max -you referring to is still even working after all thous years...

And if you need to import Max file use Deep Explorer instead..it convert everything to all most all formats..

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#32 3/10/12 9:21

EdT
Moderator

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

From your dae:

  <asset>
    <contributor>
      <author>user</author>
      <authoring_tool>3dsMax 7 - Feeling ColladaMax v3.05B.</authoring_tool>
      <comments>ColladaMax Export Options: ExportNormals=1;ExportEPolyAsTriangles=0;ExportXRefs=1;ExportSelected=1;ExportTangents=0;ExportAnimations=0;SampleAnim=0;ExportAnimClip=0;BakeMatrices=0;ExportRelativePaths=1;AnimStart=0;AnimEnd=3.33333;</comments>
      <source_data>file:///E:/mod%20pliki/ONI_MOD/ninja%20bot.max</source_data>
    </contributor>
    <created>2012-10-02T20:35:37Z</created>
    <modified>2012-10-02T20:35:45Z</modified>
    <unit meter="0.1" name="centimeter"/>
    <up_axis>Z_UP</up_axis>
  </asset>

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#33 3/10/12 9:43

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

interesting...I will check what's that because some of this part are correct while others are not..

for example this:

<author>user</author>- what's that?

<created>2012-10-02T20:35:37Z</created>
    <modified>2012-10-02T20:35:45Z</modified>

I'm fast but i cant do it in 15 seconds..thats beyond my abilities..yet

Now i get it
Feeling ColladaMax v3.05B. - I installed this plug-in a long time ago.. probably this is the source.

I will try to convert thous max files..but I don't know if my "version of max" is to capable of doing this. tongue

So lets move now to other issue.

So what with this Ninja android...If we still have this Buffer overflow thing..then maybe this is caused by not properly closed geometry in some parts?
When I was working on removal of thous blue lines...I see that its geometry ..not only is badly divided, have one sided polygons, but also thous polygons are not connected(the are not creating full object) So maybe this is the source of this problem?
That's why I'm asking if the Hammer have this same problem, or not?

Last edited by ltemplar (3/10/12 10:02)

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#34 3/10/12 10:40

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

No hammer doesn't have them.

several previously released characters had 1 sided polygons and no buffer problems.
Examples are:
jester his boots were single polygons i made them using muro's collar, had to duplicate and invert .. He doesn't cause buffer overflow.
another example is kojiro, the belts from lara croft model became single sided upon isolation. Which i also then duplicated and inverted.
so the prescence of thouse double sided polys is not a problem.

nor is the prescense of single sided ones, upon testing several characters (esp when i use done parts from other characters) sometimes they're single sided and don't cause buffer overflow, only problem is they don't get textures from both sides.

the bot has been fixed and released, having a lower lod seems to fix the problem, but how low seems to be random .. For blackops konoko and hanako having 3500 for entire model solved it .. For the bot it required even less : 3200

his entire model is now 4500  polys for the high lod, i've had other models with about that number of polys and didn't cause buffer overflow.

So till now it appears it's caused by the poly number, but there are no specifics to what it is .. Seems to differ among models.

However, we can easily test other possibilities if someone has the time
example import a oni character into xsi, example female cop, select all objects, then all polygons and duplicate and invert them , export and test in game.. If it gets buffer overflow then it's an issue of double sided polys, if not then it's something else (caren's are low poly even if all are duplicated polygon count shouldn't be an issue). (i'll try that)

testing another possibility test a 1 sided polygon character  which is low poly ..if no buffer overflow then it's not the 1 sided thing. (i may still have a model like that)

testing polycount: import an oni character, keep adding polys to it and testing, add a 100 at a time to the head let's say till reaching a count that causes the buffer overflow. (ltemplar u may be fastest in testing that if u manage to export correctly as i don't know how to add polygons quiclky)

p.s i disagree about the gemomtry that it's badly divided, original object model didn't have blue edges, somewhere along the line i had to convert the trbs to dae it then gave those blue edges, that's onisplit's doing. Where did u see them not closing ?? I had some characters before which didn't close but that was visible (flickering lines wouuld appear where a point or edge are not welded properly), this model closes well, u don't see any gaps in game nor in original object model.

my problem is : i want to know how to get rid of the blue lines easily, automatically.. Ed has a mac program that removes them quickly, however in xsi it doesn't seem easy.
When i learn how to do that then i can easily lower polys and have a lower lod.


p.s : why i believe ur dae gets messed up, is
u use the model rotated in a pose where it's standing and arms are extended .. I use the folded one.
u don't freeze transforms before u match body centers (i can't stress how important that is) first rotate and position the object like an oni one, then freeze all is transforms then match all trnasforms of its center to that of oni's part center. U need to recheck if the center have the correct translation coordinates, sometimes match all transform doesn't match the translation (but matches rotation and scaling)if not u need to enter them manually.
you don't freeze the transforms.. ur dae always has wrong scaling and/or rotation
After u've done that u can use symmetry, not before.
Remove the ''nod'' stuff i believe u get these when u add uv maps, they're becoming 20th and 21 objects .. Delete them before u export.

Last edited by Samer (3/10/12 10:49)


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#35 3/10/12 12:41

geyser
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Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Samer, if you are working in XSI, then you can select all of the edges in a mesh, then right-click and use the "Weld boundary points/edges" tool. It should automatically weld all those blue edges for you. Sometimes it welds too much, and some thin polygons may collapse into single edges, but in that case you just need to reduce the tool's tolerance on the mutual distance of the edges to be welded. That works most of the time, and as a last resort you can weld points individually - but that's something you would do only if "Weld boundary points/edges" doesn't work, and it usually does.

About rigging the elbow joint - you should first identify the correct axis of rotation of the elbow for Oni's humanoids. My guess is that the elbow flexes about the Z axis of both the parent (biceps) and child (wrist). So, when setting up the joints, you should try to make the Z axis of both centers point in the same direction as the cylindrical shape between the two meshes (because that cylindrical shape looks like the pivot around which the rotation should occur). Alternatively, you may leave the orientation of the centers as-is, and rotate the meshes instead (about their longitudinal axis), until the direction of the cylindrical shape at the elbow coincides with the Z axis of the biceps and wrist centers. Feel free to rotate that cylindrical mesh separately from the rest of the arm. The position of the elbow pad (part of the wrist mesh) should also be consistent with the degree of freedom of the elbow joint (i.e., as the elbow flexes about the Z axis, the elbow pad should be on the outside of that rotation movement). If I understand correctly, you are working with the "zero pose", where the axes of all bones are aligned with the global axes - I recommend that you use a more natural pose, and/or use a base model that has obvious rotation axes for the elbow etc, such as Oni's original ninjabot, or my "heavy trooper" (a.k.a. "alien"). Both robots have a very clear articulation at the elbow, so you can adapt the new mesh to that.

When I adapted the "heavy trooper" (a.k.a. "alien"), I didn't match any of Oni's skeletons exactly. Instead I stretched the upper body of the ninjabot so that it would accommodate the wider shoulders and longer arms of the new model. My procedure is completely documented on the wiki, HERE. The important part is not to deform the lower body too much, otherwise the feet will be off the ground or under it. The upper body you can adapt more freely. Ultimately, what matters is that the lower body must have proportions that are similar to the lower body of the Oni character from which you'll inherit the locomotion TRAM - that, and the joints must be consistent with the way the new model flexes. There, I hope you can make sense of all that and fix the elbow joint.

I am not sure what you call "buffer overflow", but I can tell you this. The limitation for Oni's meshes is not about the poly count, nor about vertex count. What is limited is the number or individual "points" (unique associations of vertex position, UV coordinate and vertex normal). Apparently the model does not have smooth normals, and/or there are a lot of UV seams. This is what causes a large number of unique "points", even though the poly count is modest (except for the head of course, which has some outrageously high detail). Try deleting the vertex normals in XSI, and smooth ones will be generated.

Other than that, the model looks nice, but obviously it's too sexy for a "robot soldier". I suggest you remove the belt things on the hips (which are clearly influenced by the fantasy world from which this model was extracted) and make the model a lot smaller (roughly Ninja- or Fury- sized). Maybe reduce the size of the arms and chest so that its proportions become closer to those of a regular ninjabot. If you do that, it should already look a lot less like an Eva/Knightframe/ArmSlave/whatever, and more like a robotic assassin (under the command of a handful of Hydra, themselves reporting to Sarai).

Will answer other stuff later.

Last edited by geyser (3/10/12 13:40)


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#36 3/10/12 13:41

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Ok but if this is really causing this problem..but what with this U-axis z-axis thing..maybe this is the real source?
Geyser but you know how this automatic work....It take thous two vertexes, create the line between, and as the last part of this process using Vector Matrix creating third vertex in the half of the path thous when deleting originals..If he first duplicate polygons and flip then onto another side..using this toll for vertex welding will create such big mess that even i will not be able to put into right without killing uvw cord....This toll is only good for nicely closed together faces..but the angel between thous faces can't by higher than 0,2 degrees.

"About rigging the elbow joint - you should first identify the correct axis of rotation of the elbow for Oni's humanoids. My guess is that the elbow flexes about the Z axis of both the parent (biceps) and child (wrist)."

That's not the source..of bad DAE export...
I done the test..and I imported oni character..then exported FROM XSI without doing any modifications and has this bad rotation again in game- simply coled by my meat box-freezing scale, or rotations..doesn't change a thing.So my guess is Or I have valid Collada EXPORTER or..seated wrong axis ..There is no other possibility.I will provide you the screen shot of my XSI in action..Please take a look on it ...and determine if axis are seated correct or maybe my version of the exporter( problem of the plug-in....because it showed the time I spend on fixing this model as 15 seconds...and that's physically impossible-I'm fast but not that much.)

axisandexporterxsi.jpg

Buffer overflow-The shield is bouncing or not showing on the character..or when doing motion blur move..it is showing badly or even not at all.

Last edited by ltemplar (3/10/12 13:54)

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#37 3/10/12 13:56

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

"About rigging the elbow joint - you should first identify the correct axis of rotation of the elbow for Oni's humanoids. My guess is that the elbow flexes about the Z axis of both the parent (biceps) and child (wrist)."

that part was addressed to me, I asked a few posts earlier what character he used to match the alien/robot joints. He's not saying it's cause of your problem.
anyway thx geyser .. I figured it out though after much experimenting, i was looking at the  xyz translation with respect to xsi, example y was up in xsi but in game moving it up moved it forward.

interesting about the buffer overflow .. will try that ..


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#38 3/10/12 14:13

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

"i was looking at the  xyz translation with respect to xsi, example y was up in xsi but in game moving it up moved it forward."

Is this part form me to read? If yes could you be more precise here?

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#39 3/10/12 14:41

geyser
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

No, Ltemplar, I think that part was directed to me, because it was introduced with "thx geyser". He (Samer) is apparently explaining how he learned to obtain correct results even when working on the "zero pose". My advice, however, is that whenever you work on a new character (with possibly counterintuitive bone orientations), it's better to use an upright pose. I also recommend to leave the new model as is, and to manipulate an existing character (as if it was a posing figure), until the posing figure matches the new geometry. In other words, follow that simple list of steps that I detailed on the wiki. That way, you should be done literally within minutes. The way you're working now, you apply some non-trivial transformations to the new geometry, and then duplicate/mirror the limbs to avoid inconsistencies, right? Well, with my procedure, you don't need any of that. It's much faster and cleaner. (Again, this is mostly directed at Samer).

As for your problem with exporting, Ltemplar, I can't really tell without having XSI installed and looking at your files. I have no idea what's up with those created-modified times, and what your Feeling ColladaMax plugin has to do with it. You should be exporting to Collada with the latest Crosswalk, anyway, not with some old ColladaMax plugin. So, be sure to use Crosswalk for export. I also recommend to export "Selection only" when possible. And of course there's all the subtle stuff about freezing the transformations of the geometry (or centers). It may seem complicated, but it's not mystical. You're a seasoned 3D modeler, and XSI has some very good manuals. The character DAE that you export from XSI should look the same way (upon reimport into XSI, or into Oni) as the character DAE that can be extracted from Oni. That's the goal. If you can roundtrip consistently on your side (from XSI, to Oni, and back again), then it will work fine on Samer's and Ed's side too. And that's all there is to it, really. P.S. If it is true that you extract a character to DAE from Oni, then load it into XSI and after exporting from XSI to DAE it is screwed up - then there is probably something wrong with your plugin (ColladaMax?).

"Weld boundary points/edges" has always worked for me. It has adjustable parameters that you can tweak, if the result is not what you want. Anyway, all those disconnected polygon islands shouldn't appear if you make the vertex normals smooth, and so you won't need to use the welding tool much (or at all). Actually, guys, if you've messed up the model beyond redemption, maybe it's best to just start over. With the procedure that I proposed on the wiki (HERE), it shouldn't take too long.

Last edited by geyser (3/10/12 15:04)


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#40 3/10/12 15:52

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

@ geyser : upright pose : u extract trbs as dae u get in folded position then u rotate body parts to get it in upright position right ? .. I used that technique.
but for the bicep wrist, it looked ok in idle pose just not in combat pose, (even though i did scale and move the original bots arms to fit it and then matched the centers) the center needed little fine tuning to look ok too in combat idle pose, that i did with experimenting with moving the center along x and y till i got the combat pose right .. also if i'm moving the oni body parts there's no guarantee i'll move them symmetrically exactly, so i'll use duplicate symmetry along the way sooner or later.
i've also used the oncc as dae once (for rayman) but found the rotation and parenting exhausting that way ..

"Weld boundary points/edges" has always worked for me. It has adjustable parameters that you can tweak, if the result is not what you want."
tried that i always either some remained or they collapsed and changed the shape of the mesh.

"all those disconnected polygon islands shouldn't appear if you make the vertex normals smooth"
gotta figure out how to make the vertices smooth then tongue or someone could direct me to the option


"Actually, guys, if you've messed up the model beyond redemption, maybe it's best to just start over. With the procedure that I proposed on the wiki (HERE), it shouldn't take too long." no really it's working well :\ as i said i solved the wrist\bicep issue and the buffer overflow issue.

all directed to geyser tongue

Last edited by Samer (3/10/12 15:58)


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#41 3/10/12 15:55

ltemplar
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Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Geyser..

I recreated from scratch(all possible object things ) in this model(welded it properly etc..).In my opinion the problem with this model is(as I mentioned many times before) the fact it was converted from the game where double sided polygons are possible. If we examine closely the original oni characters we will see that number of standing lonely polygons is reduced to few(if any).The problem with this character is that, it is build from many attached parts that simply don't work with oni engine.
The only method is to recreate the model from scratch.That's exactly what I'm talking about from the beginning. Why I changed the model like this is because Samer didn't allow me to play with UVW coordinates(he wont to use original textures for it), which for sure will be modified in the heat of this process.

It must be the plug in(or my export method).When I created animations for Hammers attack. then exported they become massed up. while when I gave the XSI files to EdT.. he was able to do it correctly..Coincidence? I don't think so...And thats the part I really don't understand..I can import(using exactly the same plug in)correctly the model or animation..but i can't do this with export..thats why I think that something in my XSI or in my method is incorrect. And that problem is only touching animated(rigged) object..no weapon or buildings or furnitures(static)..Thats why I'm so confused about this.

PS Samer. if you solve this buffer overflow issue...what did you do then?

Last edited by ltemplar (3/10/12 16:01)

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#42 3/10/12 15:59

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

GUYS IT IS WORKING AND RELEASED AND IT HAS NO ISSUES IN GAME .. why are we stuck on it ?? http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … hp?id=2438
let's continue other stuff please. thanks.

Last edited by Samer (3/10/12 16:00)


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#43 3/10/12 20:20

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

ltemplar wrote:

PS Samer. if you solve this buffer overflow issue...what did you do then?

Samer wrote:

the bot has been fixed and released, having a lower lod seems to fix the problem, but how low seems to be random .. For blackops konoko and hanako having 3500 for entire model solved it .. For the bot it required even less : 3200
.


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#44 3/10/12 20:34

EdT
Moderator

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

The number of polygons was not specific to the model, rather it was the result of the polygon reduction tool.  I would set a target of 60% reduction for each body part and if the total was less than 3,800 that is where I stopped.  From observation 4,000 and up seems to cause the buffer overflow.

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#45 3/10/12 20:41

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

But I meant for the bot u first gave me a trbs with about 3500 right ? that still caused buffer overflow, while it solved it for konoko blackops. The bot needed 3200 to get solved. That's what i meant by model specific. 3500 was enough for some but for the bot needed more reduction.

But geyser's suggestion that it's due to number of unique points could explain why sometimes 3500 worked sometimes needed lower.. Gotta figure out how to smooth these vertices like he suggested.

Last edited by Samer (3/10/12 20:42)


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#46 4/10/12 5:23

geyser
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Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Yes, just remember that it's not the number of polygons that matters, but the number of "points" (position-UV-normal triplets). There can be two reasons for an excessive number of such points: one is UVs with lots of seams; but the most likely and dramatic is non-smooth vertex normals (this effectively means that there are 3 unique "points" per triangular face). If you figure that out, then there shouldn't be any polygon reduction required at all. Keep in mind that this model is quite low-poly, except for the head. So if you found yourself reducing the poly count for the highest LOD, for meshes other than the head - you're doing something wrong here. You should optimize the existing geometry first, and reduce its level of detail only if absolutely necessary (or when you start making less detailed LODs for the same model).
You can check if the vertex normals are smooth by enabling their visualisation in XSI (click the eye icon, and then set visibility for normals). If there are several normals for every vertex, that's too many. One easy way to generate smooth normals is to delete the ones that you are looking at (just explore the mesh properties, and delete the vertex normals properties; back up your model before, just in case). At this point, the model has no normals of its own anymore, and the normals are generated by XSI, according to rules specified somewhere in general settings, under the "Geometry Approximation" tab. There will be quite a few smoothness settings there. If you export the model now, then it's XSI's (smooth) normals that will go into the DAE, not whatever (non-smooth) normals that were stored with the geometry initially.

Alternatively, you can let OniSplit ignore the DAE's normals and generate its own. IIRC, you do that with the "-normals" tag while "-create"ing. Those normals are smooth, and about as good as XSI's.

As for the upright pose - OniSplit has its own default pose, other than the "zero pose". It is accessible through the "-noanim" tag. If you're extracting the DAE from a TRBS, then you have no animations, but you still have the "-noanim" tag. If you omit the "-noanim" tag, you'll end up with the "zero pose" (because there is no idle animation available), but if you use the "-noanim" tag, the character will be upright, arms extended to the sides at 45° - a convenient pose for character authoring.
As for adjusting the "posing" character to the new model - there is nothing approximate or non-symmetric here. The upright pose is very simple (and often quite consistent with the default pose that the new model is in). You don't rotate and stretch the bones approximately by hand (at least I don't). Rather, you tweak the transformations by entering numbers in the Transform box. It's very fast and exact, and it lets you enter the exact same/symmetric transformations for the other side of the character. Again, all these steps are detailed in the procedure that I used for rigging the "heavy trooper" a.k.a. "alien". There, I am telling you the exact figures that you need to enter in order to make the characters match. When doing that for a new character, it'll take a few trials to determine the figure, but it's still very fast and exact.

(all of the above directed mainly at Samer)

Last edited by geyser (4/10/12 5:33)


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#47 4/10/12 5:55

geyser
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Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Ltemplar: Apparently Samer says that this "Ninjabot Too" has already been imported successfully (even though he had to reduce the LOD to make it work, which IMO should only be done as a last resort). I understand your point about double-sided polygons - indeed this model uses them a lot, and if adapting this thing to Oni some sort of backface should be added (either flipped duplicates of the same polygons, or some simple new ones bridging the gaps where necessary). That's a minor issue, though - lots of characters in Oni use non-closed meshes (e.g., faces, hair, pockets), and some of the imported characters (e.g. hovering sentry) have had see-through polygons for years (originally double-sided, but imported into Oni as one-sided), without anyone worrying or even noticing that there was anything wrong. Now, of course that's a bit of a mess that will need fixing eventually, but it is *not* an incompatibility issue. One of these days I'll install XSI and maybe have a look at that robot myself, and see what needs fixing. Until then, if Samer is happy with the result so far, he can start using it, and we can move on to other things as he suggests.
However, I do agree that this model's heavy use of double-sided polygons has a lot to do with the style in which it was designed, which is almost Oni-fitting, but not quite. We have yet to see how Oni-fitting (or not) this "Ninjabot Too" will turn out in actual ingame encounters. So, what's your progress on the "alien" a.k.a. "heavy trooper" a.k.a. "robot soldier"? (Note: I hope Samer didn't include too many spikes in the model that he sent you, because I think that this character - the robot soldier - looks best without those "alien" spikes) (just as the Ninjabot Too would look a lot better without those fantasy hip belt things)

About your issues with XSI - can you tell us what your version of XSI is, what plugins you have installed, and what procedure you use for exporting to Collada (step-by-step). If you use Crosswalk, export to plain Collada 1.4.1, and still get a mention of ColladaMax in the DAE, then there's something seriously wrong here, and I suggest that you either remove those old plugins, or do a clean reinstall of XSI.

Last edited by geyser (4/10/12 6:02)


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#48 4/10/12 6:38

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

ninjabot too is gumby's green training droid i hope we keep addressing this one as BGI_Ninjabot.

I understand your point about double-sided polygons - indeed this model uses them a lot, and if adapting this thing to Oni some sort of backface should be added (either flipped duplicates of the same polygons, or some simple new ones bridging the gaps where necessary).
That's a minor issue, though - lots of characters in Oni use non-closed meshes (e.g., faces, hair, pockets), and some of the imported characters (e.g. hovering sentry) have had see-through polygons for years (originally double-sided, but imported into Oni as one-sided), without anyone worrying or even noticing that there was anything wrong. Now, of course that's a bit of a mess that will need fixing eventually, but it is *not* an incompatibility issue.

However, I do agree that this model's heavy use of double-sided polygons has a lot to do with the style in which it was designed, which is almost Oni-fitting, but not quite. We have yet to see how Oni-fitting (or not) this "Ninjabot Too" will turn out in actual ingame encounters.

BGI ninjabot .. or BGI light bot.  works well so far in the tests.


Yeah like u said it's often not noticeable, the only place where it was minorly noticeable was the head and shoulders, gets textures from 1 side while from the other doesn't .. so had to duplicate and invert them, but ltemplar 'fixed that' .. so right now it doesn't use double sided polygons (duplicated and inverted) anywhere. no mess left. and since like u said many other characters get imported to oni as 1 sided and are not noticeable i don't see any more effort needed

So, what's your progress on the "alien" a.k.a. "heavy trooper" a.k.a. "robot soldier"? (Note: I hope Samer didn't include too many spikes in the model that he sent you, because I think that this character - the robot soldier - looks best without those "alien" spikes) (just as the Ninjabot Too would look a lot better without those fantasy hip belt things)

didn't modify ur alien model anyway, except some uv maps which were out of proportion or rotated upside down .. name suggestion for ur model : BGI Heavy Bot .. vs this one BGI Ninja or Light Bot, again not NinjaBot Too. I didn't modify ur model.
P/S ltemplar for the heavy bot updates let's go back to the BGI Levels and Characters thread.

the belt hip things could be removed but another lower lod without them has to be made. I don't see how that is fantasy model specific or how it makes him more "sexy" Several models from various games fantasy or sci fi use that style .. but they can be removed to make a another variant of him if necessary.
for the size and proportion the objective isn't to make him a training bot duplicate, (again not ninjabot too) and as u mentioned before the bgi can have mecha of all sizes ranging to the iron demon, however in the oncc we can set him to have a wider range of sizes, also if necessary.


some facebook user comments about the BGI_NinjaBot http://www.facebook.com/groups/18665679 … up_comment

1-*notes to self* "play using ninjabot foreva" *note end*
2-Your BGI ninjabot looks insanely cool.
3-*drools*
4-Cool design, his younger brother needs redesigning!
5-Samer, where is this from? Looks familiar. Amazing either way.
6-Wha... Ok, that is awesome. I'm amazed at what you can do with the models nowadays. Can't wait to try this bad boy out in-game!

so that's good enough for me.

Last edited by Samer (4/10/12 6:45)


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#49 9/10/12 15:51

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

geyser wrote:

Apparently the model does not have smooth normals, and/or there are a lot of UV seams. This is what causes a large number of unique "points", even though the poly count is modest (except for the head of course, which has some outrageously high detail). Try deleting the vertex normals in XSI, and smooth ones will be generated.


Anyone has an idea on how to ''delete vertex normals in xsi" ?

edit : ok apparently geyser elaborated on that in his next post, i missed it..

He also said i can use -noramls tag when i create the trbs ..
I'm not familiar with manual onispli commands .. I've always used demos's gui ..
How would the command look exactly with the normals tag and everything.

Last edited by Samer (9/10/12 16:07)


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#50 9/10/12 16:33

EdT
Moderator

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

The basic command is  -create:trbs <out directory> -normals <source TRBS>

Have you tried script10k's Vago: http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … hp?id=2385
If it doesn't use the -normals tag, you can ask him to add it smile

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