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#1 8/2/11 0:25

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

New Moves Brainstroming

I still haven't had the chance to attempt animating myself but mukade and EdT are doing a very good job ...

I have some ideas of moves and I thought I'd share them since it seems It's going to take me a long time before i get to animating. ( i want to finish my character projects first, then attempt animating updating them with new moves)

I don't know how difficult these will be to achieve ... and anyone who has some suggestions for new moves please also share on this thread and the animators current and upcoming can select what they like and feel can make.


I'll try to do my best in describing the move if any of them seems unclear i can provide vids and pics.


1- a knockdown train move ... in this move the character rushes forward using it's shoulder to knockdown everthing in its path,  similar to stirkers and heavy tctfs heavy kick but knockdown with shoulder not head and with better aim and more duration .. ( the character stays in straight standing position as it launches forward)
if u're familiar with juggernaut from x-men tongue that sort of thing ...

this can be a heavy kick move. or a running kick. intially planned for the typhoon but can work on other heavy characters like BGI-trooper

2- a tornado move i had this specifically in mind for the typhoon, it's a heavy kick :  the character starts crouched and starts rotating its arms similar to elite's heavy\super punch .. but he's rotating while crouched .. he starts to stand up still rotating his arms around a vertical axis as he stands up he starts rotating around his own axis and also in a shape of the circle for a little time ... contact with any parts of the body during this move is a hit not just the arms. high motion blur and contrails can be added to make it look like a tornadoo and maybe also to mask any bugs in the animation tongue


3- this heavy kick move .. the character stands on his\her  hands doing something like muro's kick low move breakdance but the feet are pointed upwards see this to know what i mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61VoaZNVVp4  .. i wanted to use this move for Hayate but i think it would loo great on motoko


4- a throw similar to elite's back crushing (where he carries the target from the back horizontally and crushes the back on the knee :\) .. he picks up the enemy in a horizontal position but from the front .. raises the enmy above the head and then crashes him\her forcefully into the ground.
for the typhoon or the BGI trooper or other strong characters


5- a super punch for the typhoon where he raises up like konoko's fists of fury but while rotating around his axis and the fist pointing upwards raises above the ground maybe for a distance .. like a drill upwards .. this move knocks characters as he rises not when landing


6- a running kick throw .. where the character rushes towards the enemy levitating and making consecutive kicks to the face and chest while in air and then lands with a backwards crescent ... jacky chan like :\ i can find a video for it ... this would look good on motoko, hayate or jubei and akane or bgi agents


7- a throw like the tankers 3 knee grap but only a single hit to the guts resulting in an effect similar to willow kick, (Agents, typhoon ...)


8- a stationary kick jump where the character rises in the air does a split hitting the left and right targets and then as going down hitting the front (and maybe back) targets .. originally planned for casey but would look good on any other agile characters, bgi agents, motoko, jubei and akane, hayate. can also work as a lt or rt-fw-kick  .. (twister kick)


9- a k_k_fwk that looks like konokos running back kick ... see it and then imagine it in a forward direction .. the feet landing on the enemy infront of the character and knocking him down forward.

Last edited by Samer (8/2/11 0:29)


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#2 8/2/11 0:56

Lithium
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From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Tackle similar to Elite running kick but longer right


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#3 8/2/11 0:59

Samer
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From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
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Re: New Moves Brainstroming

oxe161 wrote:

Tackle similar to Elite running kick but longer right


yes if u are talking about the first move smile but without the leaning of the elite running kick ...


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#4 8/2/11 10:10

EdT
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Those are some good ideas and they are all doable, if someone has the time and patience to make them smile

One challenge with throws, is you have to make a target animation, which is how the opponent will react to the throw.  It would be easy to make both animations together.  However, when importing to Oni, the target animation has to be rotated 180 degrees.  Not easy to do, more time consuming work.

Another big challenge is making the attack extents.  Talking with Neo recently, it does not seem possible to automatically calculate the extents, they have to be calculated manually.  What are extents? According to Loser:

Extents and XML

Ever wondered how comes Artificial Intelligence can recognize incoming attack and block or dodge? Extents ( found out by Geyser and fully uncovered by Neo ) are the key.

There are two types of extents -

    * <Extents>, its packages store this info:

        <Angle> at which is this extent radiated from character. 0° is in front of character, 180° is in the back
        <Length> of this extent,
        <MinY> minimal height of this extent
        <MaxY> maximal height of this extent

    Length, MinY and MaxY serve for creating invisible area in space which is "dangerous to be in". If AI collides and notices it (refer to notice field in MELE), it will attempt to block or dodge according to its modifiers in given MELE profile. Again, see fields in MELE.

    These extents are pretty impossible to guess, so leave them until Neo comes up with extent computation ( probably from attack bones and bonetrack rotations ).

    BUT

    Always add at least one package, because its Length, MinY and MaxY will be taken as the longest extent, the most maximal Y and the most minimal Y vales. Those are needed, otherwise character won't react to this attack.

    * <HorizontalExtents>, its packages store this info:

        36 fields (exactly 36, no more, no less, otherwise it won't compile back into .oni file), which correspond to areas in 10° intervals around character ( so overall 360°, full horizontal circle around character).

        Imagine character. Look at it from above. Make a circle with this character being center of this circle. Now divide this circle with lines after each 10°; and those are horizontal extent lines used by packages ^_^.
        Once more 0° is in front of the character, 180° is behind character. Intervals go clockwise. So first package is horizontal extent for 0° line, second package is for horizontal line which is 10° clockwise and so on.

        These extents can be guessed up to some degree. Use common sense, look at Your custom attack and tip which lines are probably intersected by attacking limbs of Your move.
        Watch out - if attack is frontal ( direct kick forward ), you should worry not only about 0° (directly front), but also about 10°, 20° (a bit to the right) and also about 340°, 350° (a bit to the left).
        Next guess the length (you will get used to the sense of distance soon), write it in, test it with some AI which blocks a lot. If you did it right, Your attack will be often blocked.
        Don't overdo it with horizontal extent length - too long will cause AIs to react too far from you, does not look pretty.

source: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD_talk:TRAM

Last edited by EdT (8/2/11 10:16)

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#5 8/2/11 10:32

Nitr0
Member
From: Croatia
Registered: 26/11/10

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

I think I'll try to do some of the easier moves later.


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#6 8/2/11 11:21

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

These sounds pretty doable, I agree.

@Running kick throw, I already made something similar to this, I still need to take a video of it tho.

@EdT Yeah, throwing does take some patience because of the target animation, but if you make the throw animation first, then start on the target animation, you can import the throw animation into the target animation, and use it as a reference. Then, when you're done, delete the imported animation, and go through all the pelvis keyframes, rotate it 100 degrees, and change it to the "mirror" image. Just using the opposite coordinates, so if it's at -130, you simply change it to 130 (only along the one axis though, the other two won't be affected. I might not make much sense, and it might be easier to show pictures instead, but anyways, that's how I did my throw animation, and it worked out pretty well.

As for extents, I haven't had too much trouble with them so far. What I usually do, is take the TRAM with the move that is most similar, and use that to reimport it, so that the extents are at least as close as they can be. I don't have too much experience, so I might be wrong, but there you go.

...Anyways, I plan on working on a few animations that use particles to deal damage, and could yield some interesting results. Don't know when I'll start, I'm not in an animating mood right now


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#7 8/2/11 12:15

Delano762
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From: Poland
Registered: 29/12/10
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Re: New Moves Brainstroming

New Moves Brainstorming? Hell yeah!
But if I would be doing this I'd start from... importing moves from other games. Then, as we gain experience, we start to do something from a scratch. I'd start from a very simple in fighting game, called Bully, made by Rockstar Vancouver. It's a GTA set in a boarding school, so you solve most of your problems in the same way as you did in Oni. But it's way simpler, no Crescent Moon Kicks, just simple school stuff. But I'd like to see Mai pulling off a simple roundhouse kick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ByBWNAWLI Bully has been released on PC, so there might be a chance of extracting Jimmy's (game's anti-hero) animations. I have a PS2 version and I gotta say it's the best PS2 game I have: Bullworth rules, Liberty City, Vice City or San Andreas can go to hell. And here's a gameplay video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC0ZE6y5 … re=related

Last edited by Delano762 (8/2/11 12:17)


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#8 9/2/11 19:29

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Well,it's always nice to see moves from other games to go on, I really liked Samer's suggestion of that one move from Prince of Persia (I think it was). But there are no issues with animations from scratch, I've already done a few, and in fact one is released with the new Casey (heavy kick)... granted, the first part IS Muro's heavy kick, but the second part was all my doing.


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#9 11/2/11 21:26

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

ok so u already made the running kick and it's amazing big_smile

yes that vid was from prince of persia big_smile

keep up the great work Mukade smile !


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#10 11/2/11 21:39

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Thanks, aside from my experimental moves I'm going to make for you, the the Prince of Persia one is probably gonna be my next regular move I make, I really like it.

And thanks, it's not exactly "Jackie Chan" but it does have similarties


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#11 11/2/11 21:48

TheCreature
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From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 15/12/09

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

What about a kick that looks like the Ten Shadow punch?  The character leaps in the air and unleashes a flurry of kicks with either one or two feet.  (Whichever looks better)


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#12 11/2/11 21:51

Lithium
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From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Similar to Liu Kan's Bike kicks?


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#13 11/2/11 22:07

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Sounds similar to a move that Samer suggested, although what he suggested was a throw


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#14 11/2/11 23:05

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

that does sound similar to the throw which u already made but that gave me some other ideas^_^
see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Br4KDtTDv4 it's from devil may cry 4 .. see the kick that does multiple quick kicks it can be used as a heavy kick similar to the ten shadow punch or can be used as part of a PPk combo .. also see the other moves there's a good PPKK move ( it's similar to casey's ppkk) and there's the rising drill move that i was talking about for the typhoon, also the final move can be used as a bk_fw_k and at the same time it's as an evading move.

Last edited by Samer (11/2/11 23:09)


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#15 11/2/11 23:07

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

kick kick kick kick? more broken than the ninjas? I DO WANT


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#16 11/2/11 23:53

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Interesting moves but some might be difficult. The problem with those is that, while I think all of Oni's moves, while many are considered insanely difficult to pull off, they don't actually break the laws of physics, they might exceed human ability to perform yes,but some of these moves you're suggesting completely break them, like him jumping straight up, then suddenly crashing down at an angle, which is not possible. Now, I'm not flat out saying I won't make them, I might make some of those for Mutant Konoko or other superpowered characters, and then I guess you guys will spread them to other characters, but that's just my opinion. As I said, they're still cool moves and I might get around to them in the future.

Also, I don't think there's a hittype for quadruple kick... or am I mistaken?

Last edited by Mukade (11/2/11 23:56)


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#17 12/2/11 0:38

Gumby
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From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

The hittypes really aren't that important.


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#18 12/2/11 1:04

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

hehe the video was mainly for the quadruple kick, the other moves are just a preview ... u select what u like and what u feel can be accomplished smile i trust ur taste in moves tongue so far it's been good. so I'm just providing suggestions maybe u'll like some of them and make them and maybe they'll inspire u to do something different smile but don't make anything u're not convinced with and passionate about smile


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#19 10/4/11 11:16

Leus
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From: Boone, NC
Registered: 28/5/09
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

Hmmmmm moves...  Some random ideas:

1)  Jump, clasp both hands together above head, then hammer down (hopefully on opponent's head) while landing.  smile

2)  Handspring that sends the character long-range kicking in whatever direction.


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#20 12/7/11 3:54

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

thought this deserves a bump since mukade is currently making moves tongue

hoping u'd make any of these :

1- a knockdown train move ... in this move the character rushes forward using it's shoulder to knockdown everthing in its path,  similar to stirkers and heavy tctfs heavy kick but knockdown with shoulder not head and with better aim and more duration .. ( the character stays in straight standing position as it launches forward)
if u're familiar with juggernaut from x-men tongue that sort of thing ...

this can be a heavy kick move. or a running kick. intially planned for the typhoon but can work on other heavy characters like BGI-trooper

2- a tornado move i had this specifically in mind for the typhoon, it's a heavy kick :  the character starts crouched and starts rotating its arms similar to elite's heavy\super punch .. but he's rotating while crouched .. he starts to stand up still rotating his arms around a vertical axis as he stands up he starts rotating around his own axis and also in a shape of the circle for a little time ... contact with any parts of the body during this move is a hit not just the arms. high motion blur and contrails can be added to make it look like a tornadoo and maybe also to mask any bugs in the animation tongue

3- a throw similar to elite's back crushing (where he carries the target from the back horizontally and crushes the back on the knee :\) .. he picks up the enemy in a horizontal position but from the front .. raises the enemy above the head and then crashes him\her forcefully into the ground.
for the typhoon or the BGI trooper or other strong characters

4- a super punch for the typhoon where he raises up like konoko's fists of fury but while rotating around his axis and the fist pointing upwards raises above the ground maybe for a distance .. like a drill upwards .. this move knocks characters as he rises not when landing

5- a throw like the tankers 3 knee grap but only a single hit to the guts resulting in an effect similar to willow kick, (Agents, typhoon ...)


NEW :

6-A throw for the hydra, she carries the enemy in any way possible maybe like hugs them tongue and then jumps high in the air and let's go making them fall forcefully to the ground ... (she's supposed to be a high jumper)


7- A Butterfly Kick : like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibs8RgE9noY, or a series of them ( actually i've always wanted this for casey but never knew what it's called till i came across it on youtube tongue) and maybe used for other characters as forward kick or if a series of them as a super kick, the video is helpful in showing the steps that take place big_smile

8- A throw : like konoko's static kick throw, character gets on back raises AI on her (feet) legs, but then uses her\his legs to launch the enemy forward, and not over the head backward like konoko's .


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#21 12/7/11 22:16

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

"...may also mask any bugs in the animation."

What? Bugs? In MY animation? Surely you jest!

Anyways, I love all these ideas! They're all quite doable, and not very complicated. I'll get on making a few of em soon. Also, it would help if you updated this post with what character you're basing each of your new characters off of. For instance, I think Casey was based off the male cop. This would make things a bit easier for me, so I know how they move, but mostly, because the animation works better if it's made with the character you intend to use it with.


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#22 12/7/11 22:58

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

YouTube is a great source of videos:

Jump Spinning Crescent Kick  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENfXi2pdMls

Great spin kick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NV2vPGO … re=related

Tornado Kick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZYnFA1L … re=related

Maybe Motoko can use one of these moves :-)

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#23 13/7/11 0:36

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

casey is based on striker's idle pose now, he was based on muro first but changed his idle to striker which made the heavy tctf's moves fit him better. but also made the heavy kick animation u made him a bit rough :$ since u made it to return to muro's idle pose i should have told u back then i changed the idle pose :$ tongue.

bgi boss is either based on fury or konoko, probably fury

typhoon and trooper would be based on elite or heavy tctf both of which use striker's idle pose,

hammer would be based on tanker


actually we can make any move intended for any character work for the others, i can later adjust pelvis height in xml, for example if u made a move for a male and i also want it for a female, and by adding interpolation in the xml we can smoothen the return to the idle pose, as long as u leave a couple of frames at the end of the move in the idle pose.

the ones that don't work well on other characters are moves made for ninjas cz ninja's idle pose is so different from all others, looks rough no matter how much interpolation u add, even the moves for the tanker look smooth if interpolation is added. so basically use either stirker's or com guy's for male (stirker's for moves for the big guys almost all the moves mentioned above) , and konoko's or furies for females, konoko's is better more similar to the male idle pose so easier to export for other male characters later)


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#24 14/7/11 15:14

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

In the process of making the first animation in line, the knockdown train move. Using the elite as a model, and it's looking pretty good so far. Also turning out to be fairly easy and error free. If it continues this way, it'll be done in an hour and a half or so, which includes importing and polishing. smile

Last edited by Mukade (14/7/11 15:19)


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#25 14/7/11 15:16

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: New Moves Brainstroming

goody ^_^


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