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#1 2/2/11 18:25

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Hit Foot Ouch

Has anyone noticed that female characters aren't affected by the hit foot ouch move of the furies ? (that's the name of the hit type in the tram tongue)

male characters are affected by that move and by the jewel hit ( konoko's willow kick)
female characters obviously shouldn't be affected by the jewel hit ... but there's no reason they shouldn't be affected by the hit foot ouch. .. right ?

i should also mention that only comguys and muro were not affected by the willow kick until Striker made this fix http://mods.oni2.net/node/131

Last edited by Samer (2/2/11 18:29)


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#2 2/2/11 18:49

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Loser has done a couple experiments where he added a "hit_jewels for girls" attack where they get kicked in the stomach and double over, and a "hit_foot for girls" attack where the female grabs her knee or shin briefly when hit with that kind of attack.  But, as usual, he never released the mods, and probably deleted them, so the only evidence that remains of them now are a couple movies I have.


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#3 2/2/11 18:53

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

mm ok I'll make one ^_^ i just have to adjust the heights of the movement to fit the girls cz right now it makes them float and adjust the tracs.


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#4 2/2/11 19:02

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Samer wrote:

i should also mention that only comguys and muro were not affected by the willow kick until Striker made this fix

Sports Cup? I mean Muro's gotta protect his thing cool
I like small mods like these, just so small that it brings a smile to my face sad


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#5 6/2/11 4:17

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Samer wrote:

female characters obviously shouldn't be affected by the jewel hit

Have you by a chance ever tried hitting a girl in labia minora or clitoral hood? She is then really, really happy for the next week or so. I don't like this myth of female genital invulnerability.
BTW if we wanted to spice things a bit, we could make special breast pain animation for chest-unprotected female characters (civfems, femcops). Again, if you ever striked woman's chest you know the result.

Last edited by Loser (6/2/11 4:21)


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#6 6/2/11 5:29

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Except they will still block some of the hurt with their arms. tongue


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#7 6/2/11 13:00

Chamyky
Member
From: France
Registered: 11/2/09
Website

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Loser wrote:

Again, if you ever striked woman's chest you know the result.

You seem to know the result.

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#8 6/2/11 13:03

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Is there a problem with that sir? I mean girls know we guys get weak when we're hit in our HAGOITY! and stuff.


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#9 6/2/11 14:59

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

oxe161:
the post was a reaction on Samer posting common prejudice that women are somehow magically immune against groin attacks. It is a myth, a very dangerous one as girls often don't expect attacks to that area, thinking it is "boys-only effective".

Chamyky:
Yes, I know the result.

Last edited by Loser (6/2/11 15:00)


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#10 6/2/11 15:18

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

I'm sure we're all familiar with the guy punching a girl in the pelvis area in a parking lot or wahtever it was


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#11 6/2/11 16:54

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Loser wrote:

oxe161:
the post was a reaction on Samer posting common prejudice that women are somehow magically immune against groin attacks. It is a myth, a very dangerous one as girls often don't expect attacks to that area, thinking it is "boys-only effective".
.

wth :\ common prejudice ? dude chill. the jewels hit in the game doesn't affect them so yeah i think it makes sense to not affect them ...

w no i haven't tried to hit a woman in her genitalia -_- u seem to have more experience with that. i didn't know it was that dangerous yikes  .. i'll remember that next time i'm fighting with someone to save the world. note to self "hit the evil woman trying to rule the universe in her genitalia."

i wish people would just not take things so seriously, it is a game u know .

and my post is about the hit foot ouch I am going to add that animation for them ... opposed to not having either i think that's a progress. so u're welcome smile

and if u already made the animations and trac changes we'd appreciate u sharing them smile

Last edited by Samer (6/2/11 16:56)


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#12 6/2/11 20:52

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Samer wrote:

no i haven't tried to hit a woman in her genitalia -_- u seem to have more experience with that.

I seriously lol'd


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#13 6/2/11 21:49

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

I don't know what you're trying to say, Samer, I can personally vouch for what Loser is saying, and I haven't hit any girls (in their private parts or anywhere else for that matter) either.  Loser's original point was that you made an assumption that it would be illogical to give females that vulnerability.  He also seems to worry that real girls won't try to block there in a fight, but I'm sure they already know quite well how sensitive they can be smile


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#14 6/2/11 21:53

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

So can we stop talking about Vaginas then?


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#15 7/2/11 0:15

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Gumby wrote:
Samer wrote:

no i haven't tried to hit a woman in her genitalia -_- u seem to have more experience with that.

I seriously lol'd

So did I..

And yeah, shin hit for girls makes sense, and instead of a hit jewels, just make it hit stomach. It would work too, since the girls are shorter, if they were kicked like that, the shot would probably hit their stomach anyways smile


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#16 7/2/11 12:26

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

OK, let's move back to gameplay stuff.
I haven't released the mods, because they were too far ahead of their time. Done in era of HEXedit, when creating new TRAMS in some sort of animation editor was just a dream. Bonetracks of both foot_ouch and hit_jewels female responses were edited in HEXeditor as well as height tracks, producing too rough results to be actually released.

So (since I am currently deeply involved in digging hidden stuff from Mafia II) it is up to you, Samer and Mukade, to realize these animations. I can only give a couple of suggestions:

Think about spammability. Even in vanilla Oni if you have pinpoint timing you can put your enemy into stun lock with infinite stream of willow kicks. Easy solution is to make response on next applied attack on victim to play some other animation than hit_foot_ouch / hit_jewels. But Oni allows that for only one AnimType pair: Stagger and Stagger_behind. If you apply one stagger move and try to apply another, character is knockdowned when total frame count of stun lock exceeds 60 frames.

One possible way is via usage of extra unused anim_states. It gives you tremedeous possibilities: quick recovery with given input command, definition of custom hit animations applied on hit_foot_ouch / hit_jewels affected character, ability to set selective throw immunity if needed and much more.
I would say it is the best solution, given the fact Gumby or Iritscen can somehow enlarge Anim_States enumeration list if needed. And even if they cannot, there are at least 4 unused animstates which can be abused; two are not affecting the game in any way, two would require a little rescripting of cutscenes but otherwise would not affect the gameplay as well.

Regarding animation side of this project, I suggest to give females sit back stomach stun for hit_jewels. When kicked, character bends forwards and clutches its gut as it falls on its buttocks, then gets up at medicore speed back to combat ready pose.

For hit_foot_ouch, I think a few uncertain limping steps to the side while gripping affected leg gwould do the trick. You can even mirror this animation and set them to be used as a pair with 50% weight, so character sometimes limps left, sometimes right.

By doing it this way, we could set up space for more complex combat than simple button mashing or attack spamming, as well as we could introduce these hit responses to more characters than just Konoko's TRAC family.
Also, regarding future projects, various status affecting can be nice way to encourage teamwork. Imagine this: One character hit victim with willow kick. If another character manages to rear grab hit_jewels affected victim, this grab will do one quarter more damage as victim is already incapacitated so he does not put up any resistance.

Andrashi

Last edited by Loser (7/2/11 12:42)


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#17 7/2/11 12:37

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

And then there's always just adding or removing a couple frames from either the stunning or stunned animation, to allow for the vicitm to move out of the way before it's performed again. I think I'd prefer a lengthened stunning animation, because that way, the victim is still open to other follow-throughs. If I shorten the stun animation, that advantage is slgihtly diminished. And if I lengthed the stunning animation, I can decide to lengthen either the recovery of the move, or the beginning, either of which has it's benefits and drawbacks, but I can probably settle on one.

As for new animations, I like the idea of alternating weights for left and right limp. For the hit stomach tho, when you say they fall back, do you mean they fall back into the FallenBack anim state? Or would the knockdown and recovery all be part of the stun animation?


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#18 7/2/11 12:51

Loser
Member
From: somewhere in da Czech Republic
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Just adding or removing frames does not remove unfair 2 vs 1 infinite stun lock. I know it sounds like "your bad for being caught", but try to imagine it. It would become really frustrating when two such coordinated players kept kicking you to death with nothing you can do about it. And after spawn again. And after spawn again. And after spawn you try to avoid them but eventually they find you again. Until you log out, annoyed.

Description of the move: Character in battle-ready pose is hit by hit_jewels inducing attack. Character leans forward with torso and starts falling back as if it wanted to sit down on an invisible chair but some rope was tied around its waist and was pulling the character further away. Its hands are wrapping its waist. It falls on its butt, still leaning forward and using one arm to soften a shock from hitting the ground. Then it starts getting up and goes to battle-ready stance again.

Alternative variant would be to make the anim play until butt land, then let it transit to FallenBack. But by doing that, any attack applied on this character during hit_jewels stun will produce hit_fallen response. Wonders of Oni engine ^_^.

Last edited by Loser (7/2/11 12:58)


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#19 7/2/11 13:05

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Oh, yeah I suppose I hadn't considered a 2v1 stun lock

As for hit stomach, well, I'll have to give that more thought, what you're suggesting sounds a bit complicated, but we'll see

Last edited by Mukade (7/2/11 13:05)


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#20 7/2/11 19:03

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

I'm a bit meh about the hit_jewels animation lasting that long.


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#21 8/2/11 0:37

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

mm how about editing the animation of the effect of the three knee grap throw of tanker to produce an animation for the willow kick on females ... i'm kinda meh abt it taking so long too and it seems to reduce the advantage, keeping in mind that the move is blockable and hard to pull off.

but much useful information Adnrashi .. "Stagger and Stagger_behind. If you apply one stagger move and try to apply another, character is knockdowned when total frame count of stun lock exceeds 60 frames." 
it drove me crazy to know why casey's 4th punch won't knockdown the enemy like konoko's third punch .. i had to consider the 3rd punch's stagger length i guess.

i also like the shin left and shin right idea .. but the actual low kick is directed towards one side i think it would look weird to get hit on the right foot and limp on the left .. so maybe also mirror the actual move and couple them together. either hits on the left with the left hitfoot ouch or hit on the right with the right footouch effect.

Last edited by Samer (8/2/11 0:39)


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#22 8/2/11 11:27

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

Yeah, I know at least one of Konoko's moves is similar. You know her crouch_kick? Well, if you hit crouch and then, while holding crouch still, you hit kick right after, she'll leg sweep the the opposite direction smile

But then, the problem with what you're suggesting is that, if you weight them 50/50, what's to stop the game from picking left shin stagger when it picks right shin hit? I suppose you might be able to link the animtions directly, but at that point I don't think it's worth the effort :-/


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#23 8/2/11 17:21

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

mukade that's konoko's kick low ... pressing crouch and kick together gives that .. u don't have to do the normal crouch kick first.

crouch and then kick = crouch kick
crouch + kick = low kick ( sweeping from opposite direction)
also u have crouch + forward kick and same for punches.

linking them is pretty easy once the animations are done .
u make the hitting animation  for the left leg and by xml editing u put the hittype : hitfootouchleft (which u made and renamed) instead of hitfootouch

and for the right u put the hitfootouchright

so in each tram there's a different effect . it will select the hit type that's in that move's tram. so no confusion even if they have same weight in trac. same principle why doesn't it select hitfootouch when u play a triple punch ? cz the hittype in ppp is knockdownhead. so it's a simple renaming.


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#24 8/2/11 19:18

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 30/8/07

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

You can't make new hittypes.


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#25 8/2/11 19:39

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 4/9/09
Website

Re: Hit Foot Ouch

mm that sucks big_smile


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