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#1 8/8/07 9:37

Luk
Member
Registered: 7/8/07

Oni graphic

I haven't seen any posts about simple pixel graphic making so I made one. Myself I do graphic for some time, amateurly so it is not breath-taking but I still try to do my best. I started with sth like that:
onidobattlefrontaun5.jpg

which is simple like hell but I had to start from something. Then I took the famous for some time userbars:
onibar17pj.png
konokobar9mj.png
griffinbar4nf.png
shinatamabar6jc.png
kerrbar2iu.png
troopersbar1ls.png
murobar3yv.png
mukadebar0wa.png
baeabasbar3gc.png
strikersbar5oy.png
elitestrikersbar5oo.png
furiesbar5kv.png
tankerbar5xs.png
ninjabar1tb.png
tctfbar4tc.png
syndicatebar0ey.png

then had a little break and now I am helping one of the main home country Heroes of Might and Magic V sites with eg:
inferno12ay0.png
academycm0.png

so I think I made some progress with that as a recent result
onisig3qk8.png

but quitting beating around the bush I'd love to make sygnatures with all people poking around the game. There will be some problems because lack of arts but I thing I will make up something.

Also in this thread post every yours graphic, or arts that will help in graphic making.

Or just say a word and I will stop hassling you wink


ok first shoot

Konoko
konoko1copyes2.png

Mukade

dasdasdfasdasdasdadn0.png

Muro
murosig454ih7.png

Barabas

barabas3655om5.png

Striker

strikersigrm8.png

Elite Strikers

elitestriksighk6.png

Last edited by Luk (9/8/07 18:22)

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#2 9/8/07 11:49

Lugas
Member
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Oni graphic

Oooh! Those are very nice!

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#3 9/8/07 18:11

Luk
Member
Registered: 7/8/07

Re: Oni graphic

another ones:

Scolopendra guy

dasdasdfasdasdasdadn0.png

Ultimate evil

murosig454ih7.png

EARTHQUAKER! ! !

barabas3655om5.png

My favorites

strikersigrm8.png

and their older brothers

elitestriksighk6.png

thats all for today, rest to come

Last edited by Luk (9/8/07 18:21)

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#4 11/1/08 9:34

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Oni graphic

Both of you guys -- very nice!

I always wished I could update the meshes for the Oni characters with more polys.  It wouldn't be too easy, though.  Here's a question for kuchumovn -- do you need 3ds to work with the Oni models?  I don't know why another renderer couldn't import the models, but I don't even know what format they're in.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#5 11/1/08 14:38

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Oni graphic

Hmm, I have asked this question of others and get the same answer, that you need 3ds max (I knew it back when it was 3D Studio so the name is hard to get used to).  I just did some Googling, however, and it looks like several programs can import 3ds format, including the free Blender.

And it's true that importing back into Oni might not work, but I wasn't planning to do that (although that would be cool).  The new models could be used in Konoko Payne or whatever fan project might become Oni 2.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#6 12/1/08 5:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Oni graphic

"then you can import it to a 3d-editor and maybe flip normals for some bodyparts" It's up to you, ku4um, to detect the polygons that need to be flipped, and export them properly wink

"(as far as i'm informed there have been no public testing of importing meshes into oni)" That's correct, but OniSplit will import/export anything soon enough (for Edition purposes).
While OBJ are good enough for standalone M3GM, characters pretty much need to be exported with a hierarchy (e.g., as FBX). We're doing Blender-importable characters already.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#7 12/1/08 7:25

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Oni graphic

"since opengl displays models correctly, it is just 3ds file format issue"
No it isn't. It's an issue with the M3GM. And I've already told you that wink


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#8 14/1/08 18:29

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Oni graphic

i guess this is an opengl issue (maybe a design issue)

The issue is only with Oni's meshes and the way they're rendered in Oni. Basically, they're mostly using the face normals for backface culling, rather than the vertex order.
That is what happens for character meshes and animated cutscene objects. Certain body parts are obtained by flipping existing ones, which preserves correct face normals, but flips the polygons. Same for "cloned-and-mirrored" parts of a single mesh (e.g., wheels of a car). Therefore, if you export ONCC or OBAN meshes and preserve the triangles listed in the IDXA as strips, some of them will be culled incorrectly by 3D programs. Because 3D tools typically use the vertex order for backface culling. And because Oni does not use the vertex order at all for character and "object" M3GM - it uses face normals instead. The reason why these meshes have inconsistent vertex ordering is because that order is irrelevant to Oni. The only way to fix the order is to check face normals against triangle orientation. For character M3GM, the mesh is usually flipped as a whole, but for car wheels, you have to check every triangle, because the flipping may be limited to a part of the mesh (e.g., left wheel is not flipped, and right wheel is a flipped clone).

For powerups (and probably weapons, turrets, consoles, particles etc as well), they'not culling the backfaces, at least not according to the face normals. We know that because some face normals are just plain wrong for, e.g., powerup_shield, for example, has some messy normals, inconsistent with the layout of the polygons for some reason. There are normals pointing inwards for that one, so there is no way it can be culled based on those. Either it's not culled at all, or it's culled based on the usual vertex order (which, for powerups and weapons, is consistent). This basically means that you can export all these "minor" meshes without flipping the triangles at all. Since the normals can be wrong, just ignore them for these meshes (powerups, weapons, turrets, consoles, particles etc) and do not check them again triangle orientations.

Other than that, your algorithm for checking normals and flipping polygons is correct. If for the "interpolated" normal you use not the (possibly wrong) normals from VCRA but your own interpolation (and preferably evaluate the vertex normals as well), then you can apply that algorithm to every face of every mesh in Oni. You can, however, spare yourself that trouble and use the above rules. For character meshes, you only have to do the checking for one face, then flip the triangles for the whole mesh if necessary. For powerups etc, never flip the triangles. For cutscene objects, do an extensive check and flip every face individually, as needed.

Last edited by geyser (14/1/08 18:36)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#9 14/1/08 19:10

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Oni graphic

i guess then if it is a standalone M3GM, every face is to be processed (since i guess "cutscene objects" are ordinary M3GMs, i.e. they don't have a label "i'm a cutscene object")

The problem is just that, e.g., powerup_shield (and powerup_cell IIRC) has wrong normals (even pointing inwards), so I wouldn't recommend to handle these in the same systematic way as cutscene objects. As for the lack of a flag, you're correct, but the cutscene objects belong to the OBOA hierarchy, so you can detect them that way.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#10 15/1/08 8:18

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: Oni graphic

"i.e. one can check all the OBOAs in the level, and if some M3GM is not part of those OBOA M3GAs, then it is not a cutscene object?"
For example, yeah. Rather than backtracking the hierarchy, you can also list the cutscene M3GM directly through the ONLV tree.

I think the easiest way to handle this is to NOT bother detecting whether a mesh "is not a cutscene object". Here's my suggestion.
Unnamed meshes should only be listed and exported through their respective parents (ONCC/TRBS, ONWC, TURR, CONS, etc).
Named ones can be listed without any distinction, and viewed/exported in a silly way (no normals checking or triangle flipping).
However, you should also allow the user to list OFGA and M3GA meshes through their respective parents (i.e., additional trees).
When the user lists furniture/cutscene M3GM through that tree, THEN the normals will be checked before viewing or exporting.
So you have a lazy default behaviour for standalone named meshes, and an optional, more zealous checking for "array meshes".


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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