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#1 23/12/10 19:21

GaldrofHerons
Member
Registered: 12/10/10

Something bugging me...

Are Konoko and Muro twins? I wanna say yes, but several sources hint at my being incorrect :S
~Galdr


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#2 23/12/10 19:25

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Something bugging me...

You know i never really thought of that, im assuming he's older because he calls her little sister. If they were twins he probably wouldn't have known if shes younger or not


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#3 23/12/10 19:54

TheCreature
Member
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 15/12/09

Re: Something bugging me...

huh... I'd never thought about this.  I guess I had assumed they were twins, as well.  It never says how long Jamie and Hasegawa were together before she died.  I got the feeling it wasn't very long.


The artist must bow to the monster of his own imagination.  Promoting the IRC and stuff for the RP: Rules Dice Map and RP

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#4 24/12/10 8:25

adorage
Member
Registered: 21/4/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Muro calls her "little sister" (and "little girl" in her dream) and Konoko calls herself his little sister too (when she manipulates the console near the end) so I always thought she was the younger one. Also, Muro leads the syndicate while she's just a lowly agent when the game starts. Of course this might be due to the TCTF taking more safety precautions (or she doesn't get promoted cause she's a girl, I don't know).


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#5 24/12/10 8:45

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Hmm, interesting question.  I glanced through all the game text on the wiki and it looks like the only reference to their relative ages is when Konoko types "Blam! Love, little sister" into the console at the end of the game.  But Dr. Kerr never tells her that she's the younger one.

When Muro and Konoko meet in her dream, he refers to her as "little girl", but that's the dream-Muro talking, so it's hard to know how much weight to give his words (you can't learn anything from your own dreams, unless you're dredging up a repressed memory or something you were only aware of subconsciously; maybe Konoko is starting to remember her older brother).

So the evidence seems to lean in the direction of Muro being older, although I don't know if that rules out their being fraternal twins, with Muro being just a few minutes older.  I don't think the game gives us the answer, but if we take "little girl" to mean anything, it would indicate that Konoko is indeed truly younger, not just a twin that was born second.  It seems to be up for debate, though.

P.S.: Ah, someone posted while I was working on my post smile.  I'll just correct you on one point, adorage, which is that Muro calls her "sister" at the end of the game (in the killed-Griffin scenario), not "little sister".  I don't see any other occurrences of "sister" in Muro's dialogue.


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#6 24/12/10 9:12

GaldrofHerons
Member
Registered: 12/10/10

Re: Something bugging me...

On an unrelated note, I just call Doctor Hasegawa Rocky. o_o
~Galdr


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#7 24/12/10 11:06

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Something bugging me...

It could just be figurative, as in, Muro has a superiority complex because he's all in charge and she's just a lowly TCTF agent, and later on, not even that... just speculation tho

And where does she type in "Blam! Love little sister" ? I don't remember ever seeing that...?


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#8 24/12/10 13:19

adorage
Member
Registered: 21/4/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Iritscen, you're right, I must have misremembered that... also I didn't consider that Konoko doesn't know he's her brother when she has that dream, so yeah, the hints are scarcer than I thought...


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#9 24/12/10 14:03

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Mukade wrote:

It could just be figurative, as in, Muro has a superiority complex because he's all in charge and she's just a lowly TCTF agent, and later on, not even that... just speculation tho

Right, because although Muro apparently knows they're related from the beginning, this is dream-Muro calling her "little girl", and Konoko doesn't know yet that they're related, so dream-Muro couldn't know, either.  Hmm, this is getting confusing.

And where does she type in "Blam! Love little sister" ? I don't remember ever seeing that...?

When you get to the satellite dish at the end, this is what Konoko types into its control console (note lines beginning with ">"): http://wiki.oni2.net/Quotes/Consoles#ST … inal_Stage


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#10 24/12/10 14:37

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Something bugging me...

So there aren't hints that one is older and other one is younger but on the other hand is there any line that says that they are twins?

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#11 24/12/10 16:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Something bugging me...

I would say that Konoko writing "little sister" probably means they are not twins.  Leaving aside what Konoko knows or means to say, we can probably assume that this shows that the game's developers were thinking of her being younger, and not just a younger twin.  I'm assuming that fraternal twins usually don't call each other "big" or "little" brother/sister, but I don't know that for sure.

Apparently Dr. Hasegawa did not waste any time having kids with Jamie if Konoko and Muro are not twins, since I agree that they don't seem to have been together very long.


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#12 24/12/10 16:29

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Something bugging me...

Sex on first date? I'll never see Hasewaga the same again
Yeah i also assumed they were twins, since they both have purple hair. In fact as soon as i saw Muro i knew he was Mai's brother. Anyone else did too?


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#13 24/12/10 17:39

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Something bugging me...

I don't think the hair color is a good point to determine if they are twins or brother and sister. It can be a hint of their special connection but no details.

We might await more clearness from the newspaper article. But "mother of two" can be both again? hmm

In the end I prefer the scenario of Muro being older since he the leader of a worldwide operating hightech crime organization - and Konoko just finished her training.

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#14 25/12/10 16:17

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Something bugging me...

First: Fraternal twins, or at least the older one, would most likely call the other "little" just to rub the fact in that they were in fact born first ( at which point the second retorts that its only by a few minutes, and on, and on....)

Second: I looked at the link you gave Irit, and I never saw that before. And reading the whole thing makes sense. She first tries to access valid commands, then edits the settings to really high values, at which point it says "Out of Range" Then she initializes with those settings, then just types in "Blam! Love little sister" just for kicks... then hops on. I never really took the time to look at those consols, they just looked like random gibberish to me


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#15 25/12/10 18:07

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 17/10/08

Re: Something bugging me...

Well its safe to assume that Muro is older. He calls Konoko little girl, little sister, and then Konoko types "Blam! Love little Sister" that and Muro is taller than her, but that can be debatable


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#16 25/12/10 21:29

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Yeah... now whether Muro is minutes or years older is still in question, and while it doesn't say anything about them being twins, we can't overlook the fact that Jamie and Dr. Hasegawa weren't together for all that long...?


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#17 25/12/10 21:44

adorage
Member
Registered: 21/4/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Warning, oxe only wrote that entry to kill the discussion, he admitted it himself. I don't know how this post would help him with that though, but it won't work tongue As the president's wife in "Air Force One" said: I don't know what you want! But you won't get it!

Instead, *I*, unlike oxe, did something constructive by taking out my Oni manual which says that Muro "appeared less than 10 years ago and beat all the old bosses" (translating back from German). "Less than 10 years ago" probably doesn't mean 4 or 6 years, otherwise it would say "about 5 years ago" - so Muro was stronger than all other syndicate bosses at least 7 years ago while Konoko starts fighting basic level strikers. Might well be a hint that he's a good bit older.

Also, but this is just an aside, Kerr saying to Konoko "The syndicate captured your father and Muro" also always sounded strange to me considering Muro must have been a child back then. You don't "capture" children, you "capture" people you consider criminals or a threat. But that's just my association with that word and may not be intended on the writer's part.

Last edited by adorage (25/12/10 21:47)


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#18 26/12/10 23:46

Stevinlewis
Member
From: Singapore
Registered: 25/3/09

Re: Something bugging me...

Good point, they kidnap children, not capture.

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#19 27/12/10 6:36

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: Something bugging me...

But wouldn't this mean that Muro was no more a kid / teenager at the time the Syndicate raided the lab?
Maybe the weight of the word "captured" refers to Hasegawa.
"The Syndicate captured your father and kidnapped Muro" would have sounded a way to long / uber-exact, imo.

Last edited by paradox-01 (27/12/10 7:24)

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#20 27/12/10 10:00

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Yeah, I wouldn't read too far into the word "captured".  I think all that the writers were trying to say was that Hasegawa and his son were taken by the Syndicate and then Kerr escaped with Mai.  The important point Kerr is making is just that the four of them were split up.

I do agree with adorage that saying "less than 10 years ago" implies more than 5 or 6.  All that tells us is that Muro was able to command the allegiance of some of the Syndicate at a young age, not that he was physically stronger than everyone (although I don't see why he couldn't have been stronger than the Strikers).

Just to see how things could work out, here's the kind of timeline I imagine: Muro is born in 2009 and Konoko in 2013.  They are split up by the Syndicate in 2017 when they're 8 and 4 years old.  Konoko has the Daodan implanted in her in 2020 and Muro's is already in him by then.  Muro starts working his way into the Syndicate and takes over by 2024 when he's 15.  That might seem far-fetched, but there have been real-life leaders in their teens (Jeanne Darc, Souji Okita (Edit: Oh, Souji was in his 20s by the time he was leading men, oops...)) and they didn't even have superhuman powers.  When the events of the game happen in 2032, that would make Muro 23 and Konoko 19.

However, if you imagine that they are older, or that Hasegawa and Jamie weren't together that long and maybe their kids are twins, then you could have Muro and Konoko born in 2007, separated in 2011, with Muro still taking over the Syndicate in 2024 at age 17, making them both 25 at the time of Oni.

Last edited by Iritscen (27/12/10 10:41)


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#21 27/12/10 11:03

Sharoduinn
Member
From: UK
Registered: 8/6/10

Re: Something bugging me...

Somebody should make a graphic timeline of the events of the Oni universe... tongue

Smilies work, thanks Harry big_smile


"Sorry about the mess"

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#22 27/12/10 12:15

TheCreature
Member
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 15/12/09

Re: Something bugging me...

Here's another thing.  Thanks to Iritscen for that post, as it reminded me of this.

Muro goes Imago at the end of the game (killed griffin) or is at least very close (griffin lives).  Mai however, is still in the "lower" stages of Daodan mutation.  Now, this could be attributed to the fact that Muro's chrysalis was implanted first, but I think that wouldn't be the case.  In the conversation with Kerr, he says that the Syndicate implanted Muro's chrysalis after the lab raid.  And Griffin implanted Mai's as soon as he found out, which couldn't have been too much later.

Also, I think the fact that Mai is still training doesn't carry as much weight as you might think.  Remember, Griffin and her trainers continually held her back, and wouldn't let her train as much as she wanted too.  That said, she would progress at a much slower rate than a normal TCTF agent, who might go through training as fast as he was capable.  Plus, Griffin might have had her training for a more advanced level of operation than a normal cop, and that would have taken longer.

Last edited by TheCreature (27/12/10 12:24)


The artist must bow to the monster of his own imagination.  Promoting the IRC and stuff for the RP: Rules Dice Map and RP

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#23 27/12/10 12:57

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Something bugging me...

TheCreature wrote:

Also, I think the fact that Mai is still training doesn't carry as much weight as you might think.  Remember, Griffin and her trainers continually held her back, and wouldn't let her train as much as she wanted too.  That said, she would progress at a much slower rate than a normal TCTF agent, who might go through training as fast as he was capable.  Plus, Griffin might have had her training for a more advanced level of operation than a normal cop, and that would have taken longer.

I think we also tend to overlook the fact that they were giving Konoko drugs to slow down the development of the Chrysalis:

"We are maintaining latency with regular injections of Sytropin, but the dose has to be increased every 3 to 5 weeks to keep up with her bolstered resistance.  Project goals remain unclear: Commander Griffin seems content to stabilize the host/Daodan symbiote for as long as possible. [...] If she is intended as a contingency of some kind the team has recommended cryofreeze as an all around safer alternative to keeping the organism active and evolving, however slowly."

In fact I think that Konoko is very close to transforming by the end of the game, based on the console that says:

"Konoko is closer to full transition than we ever suspected. Rough projections estimate that the Chrysalis will have infiltrated more than 80% of her body and will have replaced somewhere between 40 to 56% of her original organs.
We must hope that Konoko was destroyed when she fell into the biomatter disposal vats."

Sharoduinn wrote:

Somebody should make a graphic timeline of the events of the Oni universe...

Unfortunately any timeline a fan produces would have to be considered "Oni 2" material, that is, speculation.  There's just too many variables, mainly not knowing the ages of Konoko and Muro.


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#24 27/12/10 16:02

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 29/5/07

Re: Something bugging me...

Back to a couple posts before discussing Muro's takeover of Syndicate forces. While it's true he didn't need to have the physical strength to take them down (or maybe he did, it's possible his crysalis development gave him increased abilities. But either way, with such a big crime organisation, it's more of a "political" battle, a power struggle. If Muro was able to convince enough people to join him, to take down the other bosses and assume control, he wouldn't need physical strength, probably just lots of charisma. I believe he has this, just because of his undertaking in such a monumental project, obviously he was a visionary. As Irit said, probably far fetched, but a child captured at such a young age would be forced to grow up quite fast, not to mention what he must have witnessed them do to his father. A child like that would probably be extremely scarred.

Actually, this may be going off in a slightly different direction, but I believe Muro still hates the Syndicate. Obviously he held his father, and his work in very high regard (although that wasn't what his father wanted, it's what he THOUGHT he wanted). He would hate the Syndicate for what they did, and even if he did assume control, he is only using them as a tool; a means to an end. I would love to write, or see someone else write, a story on both Konoko's and Muro's timelines pre-Oni, it would make a very interesting read. And in fact, (as Oni 2 speculation/wishful thinking) we might incorporate some flashbacks, or perhaps the training mission would go back to pre-Oni) But I digress...

As for age range, 4 years sounds about right, if only for the simple fact that Jamie was a student, and a general education at University (or college for you Americans) is 4 years, so that would be a reasonable guess. Althogh it's entirely possible their relationship lasted even after her graduation.

@Timeline: While there are so many variables, one could argue that since it is in fact fictual events, that we can write it without having to worry about getting anything wrong. Like Star Wars, they made the last 3 before making the first 3. Before those films were made, fans had to speculate as to how things came to be. All Lucas had to do was to make sure all events were tied together. If we were to make a timeline, as long as we account for most of the events, and not leave too many unexplained events, we could make a successful timeline, while it's true that our results might not be the same as Bungie came to, since there's nothing to compare it to, no one can say that we're wrong.

Anyways, there's my rant, I went in many different directions, buti ts hard to keep up with so many posts in just one post.


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#25 27/12/10 18:00

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 22/10/07

Re: Something bugging me...

@Mukade: What did they do to his father?


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