Movies

geyser · 07/12/07 18:07

Added a mac-friendly script for reproducing Fear The Screamer : http://geyser.oni2.net/video/screamac.bsl
It's intended for the "state" folder. There's no easy way to make "it" work in "manplant" without patching.

@Loser: in case you didn't notice, the AI ignore the projectiles unless the shooter is an enemy they can see. That's a rather nasty "feature".
Just because you shoot from cover or wearing a phase cloak doesn't mean they should just stand there and let your Screamer eat them out.

We haven't yet figured out where/how to fix that one. We've figured out how to fix the basic one, though. It's just a stupig bug in the code.
They compute the difference between the particle's and the AI's location and then ignore the result and use the "distance" to origin
In the "standard" EXE, the fix is as follows. 0x9C07C: change 30 to 6C; 0x9C080: change 34 to 70; 0x9C084: change 38 to 74.

If you wish to express your gratitude, I'd suggest you released the firing spread settings for weapons that didn't have one.
Since you say the game is 50% better with firing spreads, there's no reason why you should be the only one to enjoy it
Other stuff is also welcome, like improved alarm-running behaviour, neutral behaviour, more melee patterns, etc.

Last edited by geyser (07/13/07 11:07)

Loser · 07/12/07 23:07

Yesss...I have just wanted to write about it too, that engine uses absolute position (beginning of the world axes) instead of character's relative coordinates. I wonder whose work this is ^_^ ??? Anyway, thanks. And yes, I hope this feature will be in the new version of DemOni ^_-.

About ignorant AIs: To be able to dodge not only projectiles, but also firingspreads, AI has to have *hostilethreat definite* knowledge of the firing enemy. Hostilethreat is on the Wiki (in the ONCC ), I have copied the name from Oni itself. It means that AI, which has spotted with central vision field an enemy char, will know for a limited time where exactly this enemy is, even if he can't see him/her. And of course will chase him/her.

While having definite hostilethreat for some enemy, AI starts using some until now unused parts of its *knowledge* with enemy's position coordinates as some variables ( only my theory). Knowledge is in .EXE ( in the MAC beta 4 knowledge parts have still labels, this was where I found projectile dodging). While in host.thr. definite mode for some enemy, AI uses *dodge firingspread* and *dodge projectiles* parts in relation with him, as well as some other ones (chase_target, update_target_position).

When some char has a phase cloak, AI cannot have host.thr. definite mode, because enemy does not colliding with vision fields thus AI cannot use dodges (but if you hit this AI, he/she goes into definite mode for exactly one cycle of host.thr. definite timer).

Since dodges are related to knowledge of an enemy (in .EXE there is an error message - *projectile from deleted character entering the knowladge base*) I would suggest this solution - if my talking above is at least partially correct, you should try to make dodges (dodge parts of knowledge) enabled even for hostilethreat forgotten (the lowest one) or hostilethreat weak (make more sense-AI knows "there was somebody", so it keeps its eyes open) . Then it should work, because if you are shooting, AI hears it and gets into *hostilethreat strong* mode with you (and if you hit him/her with your weapon it goes as well, even if it cannot see you). I think this is solution and I hope it will help you.

If you manage to make this work, please add it to the next instalment of DemOni.

About my releases: I will do it, I am working on it. I am trying (with usage of all I know as far) to overall improve ONI AI. That means ONWC, ONCC, CMBT, MELE, TRAM. I will release some files, when they will be ready for use. And important note - all my files will be optimized for dashing chars. That means minor mistakes with normally-running ones, but nothing fatal.
So far, any "orders" AKA do you want something special to be contained in these files which should help you ???

Loser

Last edited by Loser (07/13/07 00:07)

EdT · 07/13/07 10:07

geyser: does your Mac friendly version belong in the manplant level? If so it doesn't work :-(
flag 55 is above the Deadly brain's room
flag 1 is outside the building.
char_1 doesn't span a character I changed it to low_thug_1

Note: The original screamer does work fine in MacBeta4, with the same AI behavior.

geyser · 07/13/07 11:07

@ Ed:
Sorry, that was meant for the "state" level, not "manplant". I fixed the post above.
We'll give you a proper fix for the OS X engine as soon as we catch some breath.

@ Loser:

About my releases: I will do it, I am working on it.

So you don't want to work on it together... O-o-o-ka-a-ay...

If you manage to make this work, please add it to the next instalment of DemOni.

For someone who "polishes" dequantization of Euler angles the way you do (awesome arithmetics... ), you have truly amazing insight into Oni's engine...
It's really astonishing how much managed to find out almost without a "proper" hex editor, and how much you're still finding out without a disassembler
Since you've done so much work with ai2_report_verbose, maybe it's about time we decrashed it... shoudn't be all that hard, and it looks like it's worth it.
The next Daodan will patch the obvious distance bug. As for the rest, there'll be more investigation (and communication ) needed to figure them out...

EDIT: Do you have any annoying crashes to report other than ai2_report and ai2_report_verbose? (consider the pathfinging grid cache as fixed)

Last edited by geyser (07/13/07 21:07)

EdT · 07/13/07 16:07

geyser: thanks.

Here's the Mac version (No titles, music or anything special)
http://edt.oni2.net/mov/aidodge.wmv

Here's the behavior when they can't see you:
http://edt.oni2.net/mov/ainododge.wmv

Last edited by EdT (07/13/07 17:07)

Loser · 07/18/07 08:07

I am writing from summer English camp, so no new stuff.

Geyser wrote: *So you don't want to work on it together... O-o-o-ka-a-ay... *

Once you said to me: "Do you think I do the same work as you do ???" From that I kinda thought that you have other more important things to do. So I do whatever I want to do. Alone. To be honest, I have to admit that I like it more to do the job alone and then let the others criticise it, improve it, use it. If it should be some other way, tell me.

About "share your stuff"- I share, when I have something to share.

And thank you for fixing that ai2_report/report_verbose crash. It is quite annoying.

Last edited by Loser (07/18/07 08:07)

geyser · 07/18/07 11:07

You're misquoting me, Loser. You were spewing complex knowledge at me (about AI console behavior), and expected me to connect with what you were saying. I was more than a little confused.
So I said you shouldn't assume I had been staring at the same stuff as you for the past days/weeks, and maybe express your findings/guesses/wishes/questions/requests in a less telegraphic style...

Of course I'm doing "other" things on Planet Oni, including stuff that's not necessarily visible on the forum or the wiki (dev talk with Alloc and Neo and SFeLi, for example). BTW, seen this? http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … 2205#p2205
But that doesn't mean improving Oni's binaries is not a priority for me. And I have a feeling it progresses very slowly (if at all) if there's no communication and regular content exchange between modders.

Right now I would say the communication and content exchange are still very lousy as compared to what they could be.
We have OUP, and we have Xdelta. We have DemOni as a test ground (and showcase) for improved Oni resources.
Xdelta patches for DemOni are very easy to generate from your current content ("nikanabo" has scripts for that).
That's for content. As for communication, I have no idea about what you can do or what you're planning to do.
I still think that we can make a better job if we analyse what we can do right now and set a few "priorities"

Suggestion: did you consider releasing melee profiles as separate MELE chunks (not as a whole OBJC)?
Suggestion: did you consider using the Thug MELE (duplicates) instead of overwriting elaborate ones?

Re: We'll see what we can do about ai2_report(_verbose). Re: Any other annoying crashes for us to fix?

EDIT:
Really really last contribution in what could be quite a while
I sorta ported Öcse's (Dr. Genya's) OTA melee video to YouTube.
I had to trim it down to 10 minutes (no way around that after all).
But I think it has totally awesome moments. So it had to be on YT.
YouTube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rV1j0q63KFg
WMV: http://geyser.oni2.net/video/OniTeamAre … lMelee.wmv
(file size is about 40 MB for both)

For those interested in how I did it:
I retrieved the FLV from Opera's cache.
I converted from FLV to AVI with SUPER.
http://www.erightsoft.com/S6Kg1.html
I edited the AVI in Windows Movie Maker.

Last edited by geyser (07/18/07 18:07)

EdT · 07/23/07 22:07

Its been a quiet couple of days, so here's OTA Mutant Muro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ob6PHEfYmY

Your_Mom · 07/24/07 11:07

Yea yea...there's supposed to be the PC version...here it is...I double checked the flags and they're ok but why do sometimes enemies go to like the other arenas?

http://your_mom.oni2.net/Downloads/Aren … SMC1.1.zip

EdT · 07/24/07 13:07

why do sometimes enemies go to like the other arenas?

Perhaps, they don't want to be beaten up??? :-)

geyser · 07/24/07 14:07

Or perhaps you should just lock more doors
If you give me an example, I might look into it.
Could be the post-mortem vengeance effect.
(AI tend to go after the one that killed them)

Last edited by geyser (07/24/07 14:07)

Loser · 07/25/07 00:07

Konoko's undress secret finally revealed !!! HERE you can watch the video. I was wrong, no bath, just a disguise (geyser was right), probably as a brown fury (guessing from color). And remember that "alone" weird metal plate on the Airport level (it is far away from normal game field) ???

It was part of some Syndicate (???BGI???) building and Muro had some meeting here. Plus the whole Airport level is now totally different than it was originally. You can see it (weird place to change clothes) but if you want to see a few cutted bits of ONI's story, grab your OUP, find level4's FILMs, make Konoko nocollision and playback them. Then just think "why, where and who".

Loser
P.S.: Since CMBT files are now completed (alarm function is 99% resurrected-see Wiki) I will "improve" them to be ?more useful? (for example, they have too short pursuit distance) and then give to whole community ( to geyser) for implementing it into DemONI. What is going to be changed and how will be discussed HERE, I will write my suggestions and opinions afternoon this day. So far, there is NOTHING. You can start it, if you want.

Last edited by Loser (07/25/07 13:07)

geyser · 07/26/07 13:07

Thanks for (not) telling us about the OBAN... there's more to your video than FILM playback or chr_animate
BTW, the FILMs don't animate Konoko with the undress animation here. I had to apply it with chr_animate...

DemOni is optimized for incremental patch authoring. Take my patch, apply it, then make further changes, then generate a new patch and release it.
If you don't want to, that's OK, but I just want to make it clear that you can and that you're welcome to. I set up Xdelta for a reason...

According to the FILM, the lonely quad is supposed to be "Jail". In the "Outro", Muro and some Tankers gather next to that "jail", look at the person inside it, then move away (well, actually, Muro runs away and the Tankers are left to guard the prisoner).
Maybe the prisoner is no one else but Mai, and Muro somehow managed to trap her (maybe if you lose to the "Booth" Strikers or something like that, and then you have to escape in "Airport Part Deux" and catch up with Muro again at the hangars). Or maybe it's someone completely different

As for the undressing, the Shirt and Pants don't look like Fury gear at all. Actually they look like common underwear, and the brownish texture is actually DK_METAL... so... not convincing.
It's almost certain that this was a shower scene (there are or used to be shower particles and sounds). I'm not sure how they would have handled it, though: no stencil shadows? Fog etc?
Don't ask me why Konoko would take a shower in the middle of a hot pursuit (even if she somehow managed to change her clothes between Chapters 2 and 3, even though in a hurry ).
Also don't ask me why the shower would be located in such a peculiar place (most likely a cutscene room like the jail thing and the other cutscene sets we know; not an actual bathroom).
It's totally possible that the person taking the shower was not Konoko. For one thing, the TCTF Konoko's TRBS would have looked strange. A smoother, "naked" body set was required.

Talking of missing story nodes. I'm pretty sure I have an idea where Konoko falls from in the final chapter. I'm not sure what device she used (glider, helicopter), but it definitely has nothing to do with how she left the TCTF HQ.
Rather, she probably came to the Compound from the BGI HQ where, as we know, she was supposed to fight the Iron Demon and then blow the whole place up. Muro was probably there too, and he left on a VTOL plane or such.
Konoko then: 1) planted a tracker on Muro's plane; 2) followed him some time later on some kind of device "borrowed" from the BGI. This would explain the falling from the sky and also the tracker mentioned by the diary entry.
Of course, the tracker could have been the one she had planted at the Airport (it's all connected, eh). Failed before COUNTERATTACK, then "fixed itself": how ironic
If so, it's interesting why Muro didn't remove it. And whether Griffin "simulated" the loss of contact (maybe the tracker didn't actually fail, it was just Griffin giving Konoko a break).
And also where did Mai get the information about the tracker... If it was the airport tracker, then it would have made sense to pick up the trail at the TCTF HQ. So, BGI or not BGI?

BTW, some character animations from the BGI chapter are still in level0, in particular the planting of the bomb.

paradox-01 · 07/26/07 18:07

Hey, that's going to be extremely off-topic .. and I want to read more of it
To bad I'm on war with oni scripts (not to mention binary^^).. So, BGI was planed to be blown up, really? (I remember ssg how he came up with the missing levels from a mac file.) And now more about this and about the meaning of airport level II? After all this time you find out new stuff or come up with new view? It’s a never-ending^^
"And also where did Mai get the information about the tracker..." Maybe someone helped her (mystery man^^ but he fits more into the prison story).
BTW: there are some time gaps left.. (If you see advertisement on my page please get a browser add-on for blocking it.)
But we should move this discussion to "Strange things about Oni's plotline", right?

Last edited by paradox-01 (07/27/07 06:07)

geyser · 07/27/07 17:07

The "mystery man" is a Dorf (Dwarf) from Myth. Not sure what he was supposed to do in Chapter 12, but that's where he was supposed to "appear" (SNDD).
Maybe an easter-egg comment on Kerr's death. I'm thinking of binding in to Oni's crash dialog in the Daodan DLL ("Blam" is also a reference to Myth's Dorfs).
I wouldn't move this to "strange things", maybe to that Hugh Jass thread. Easter eggs (like missing content) are not directly relevant to Oni's final storyline...

Loser · 08/02/07 23:08

HERE is my another all-of-the-sudden-idea. I was playing Dead or Alive 2 when it popped in my head.
Comment on the Tag team move part: To get this effect, simply find a throw that is worth it (enemy stands for a while before he falls). Then go here and find "flags" field. See the first bit. There is 02 - invulnerable. Go to the .tgt (target) animation of your selected throw and erase this bit (so if there is A2, change it to A0). Now you can hurt enemies during their thrown animation, but you cannot throw them.
If you want to make tag throws, you have to go to the "to state" field of the tgt animation. There is some number (32 for example). Change it to 07. Now you can perform linked throws, altough animation of the thrown character is messed a bit then. ( but nothing tragic).

Example from video: I took KONCOMrun_throw_tgt.TRAM animation. I set the first flag bit to A0 and "to state" field to 07. That's it.

Comment on the Power of the ONI AI part: Just watch the potential of the engine. It is improved MELE profile.

Geyser: First of all, sorry for not continuing CMBT improvement project. It isn't dead, I am just doing other things (it is kind of the break). I will continue it as soon as I finish my other projects.

Next, since character can be also invulnerable just for a specified time of the TRAM (fields near the end of the TRAM), I suggest to make some longer .tgt anims semi-hurtable (cannot be throw during tgt anim, but can kicked/punched as they fall).
For example I have tried TANCOMthrow_k_tgt with this. After you give your opponent three knees, he goes quickly to the ground and you have to finish your TANCOMthrow_k animation. But you can manage and strike him with the low kick or low punch as he falls. He goes into fallen hurt animation and falls to the ground. That's all. You cannot land some super combos (not even punch/kick heavy, too long to perform), just one aditional hurt. So...can it be part of DemOni???

Loser

Last edited by Loser (08/03/07 00:08)

EdT · 08/03/07 14:08

Loser: Great work! Will you be releasing the improved melee profile soon?

geyser · 08/03/07 17:08

@ Ed: Well, that's what I usually do when I achieve something similar to that "AI power" scene...
I release everything I used to record the video (script and binary chunks), so that anyone can reproduce it.
If the hack is simple, I may release instructions instead. I did it for deadly glass, I did it for glass breaking.
I did it for Fear the Screamer... I did it on "Oni scripting, facts and figures"... It has become a habit, sorta.
But I guess I'm just crazy to systematically release the ingredients of my experiments to the public...
"We can't all, and some of us don't. That's all there is to it." (quoting Eeyore from Winnie-the-Pooh)

@ Loser: Konoko's new AI looks very deadly indeed. I suppose you weighted the technique up for the movie?
How annoying would you say she'll be as an opponent, once you complete her MELE with other deadly moves?
(I don't mean it's bad to have human-like MELE, but that video is terrifying; I can already feel my back break)

@ CMBT: I don't think of those as projects needing completion, or even regular progress. Take it easy. We're not paid for full-time modding...
But, whenever you come up with an idea, either a small hack or a global, ambitious mod idea, try to formulate it on the talk pages of the wiki.
Then you can let it lie idle for a while, then come back to it and release something (a little at a time) or just drop notes on your private progress.
Anyway, in the meantime, those "talk" pages will give other hackers something to look at. Think of it as a collective notepad, and make use of it.
I remember much of everything you've done to Oni, but not everything and not in much detail. My head has a limited capacity, Oni or no Oni.
So what if I remember "that cool idea Loser once had" and want to dig into it some more? Will I search the old forums for details? Not really.
It's nice if there's a resource-specific reference list of just what has been done or even considered so far. OBD_talk is the place where.

Back to CMBT: you didn't respond to my doubt on the utility of the "Default" behaviour. Doesn't Oni's CHAR already use -1 for "no CMBT"?

@ TRAM: Same as above, feel free to dump those ideas to OBD_talk:TRAM, or to the BIP thread. Who will look for tech talk in "Movies"?
Should "thrown" anims be interruptible? That's hard to say. If the interval of vulnerability doesn't interfere with the throw, heck, why not?
I'm not saying "Should it be in DemOni? ABSOLUTELY!" because as you can imagine improving those is yet another "Endless Quest"
Fortunately, the TRAM can be fixed one at a time. Glass breaking combos, damage-dealing knockdowns, vulnerable "thrown" anims...
They can all be tested and released one at a time. As for me, I'll probably be happy enough with fixed Ninja anims (you know which).

So, cool stuff as always, and worth a note. But once you start modding those, I can't see where and when you'd end, so... hmph.

BTW, love the "Bungie animstate": number 7... "They're everywhere!"

Last edited by geyser (08/03/07 17:08)

Loser · 08/04/07 10:08

HERE is my first (and for a long time the last) ONI tribute movie. This was that "project" I was working on instead of CMBT improvement.

This short movie (23 Mb, 7mins) was created by using various ONI mods, mainly scripting with some BINA hacks (FLAGs, CHARs) and texture replacements (via OUP). Enjoy and comment.

Loser

P.S: Yes geyser, I should learn to write my ideas to OBD pages....let's hope it will be soon -_- . And as for that MELE profile - it isn't finished yet, so I haven't attached it to the post. I just wanted to share such a nice example of AI smartness.

Last edited by Loser (08/04/07 10:08)

geyser · 08/04/07 13:08

Machinima! Finally! How much time did it take for 7 mins?

@ MELE profile: Of course it's not finished, but who cares?
If you want to "share" with EdT or myself, just go ahead.

@ OBD talk: I know I should give the example. My bad.

Last edited by geyser (08/04/07 13:08)

paradox-01 · 08/04/07 14:08

@ Loser: One word about two movies: awesome! You grow above yourself, he? AI Konoko is just f**king striking and three civilian on revenge mission made me a lot grining. I hope you keep it up. After all Oni does that much fun, yeah!

@ geyser: You guys gave the community many great patches. But will there be a way to import them easily? (For example I failed importing the new striker melee files.)
Lets say I have demOni and the patch chunks downloaded. Will demOni be able to patch them automatical (in future)?

Last edited by paradox-01 (08/04/07 14:08)

geyser · 08/04/07 15:08

The current patching system (xdelta) is not incremental or modular: it always patches the original files. You can't apply one bunch of patches, then another, then a third one...
But this is no big problem if what we want is one big patch that will take the original Oni (demo, Mac, whatever) and add all the features we'll have developed at the moment.
As for intermediate versions: anyone who can add that MELE collection to level0_Final can show others what it feel like right at this point (fnished or not) very easily.
Let's say Loser want to show us that totally unfinished Badass Konoko. He can very well add it to the latetst release of DemOni, and release the result as another patch.
He'd apply the demoni patch to his original demo, then edit the MELE by hand, then reauthor a patch from the new content of level0, and upload the patch somewhere.
Of course it wouldn't be right to call it a new release of DemOni, but that patch would let anyone synchronize his DemOni version with Loser's WIP. Automatically.

So that's my philosophy as far as xdelta patches go. They're not incremental, but it's OK to author and share intermediate patches from WIP versions of Oni.

Automatic import of single chunks (and, more generally, modular management of Oni's resources) ...
That will probably be based on OUP (sorta like a GUI-less version that runs a macro on a set of files).
It will almost certainly happen, but I have no idea when. Which makes it less "almost certain". Heh.

Last edited by geyser (08/04/07 15:08)

EdT · 08/04/07 21:08

Loser: You're amazing! You should post the "revenge" video to YouTube.

As geyser said, maybe you can do an Oni version of Red vs Blue:
http://www.machinima.com/films.php?id=275

Loser · 08/05/07 06:08

Geyser: It took me about week of almost-whole-day work. Terrible experience, but... I know this from my previous movie Sephiroth vs Cloud (tribute to Open Jedi Project mod of Jedi Academy).
And for Xdelta - I had tried really hard (read everything possible about it) but I still don't get it how to create Xdelta patches... gomenasai -_-

paradox-01: Thank you for comments. Striker melee profiles are imported through Oni UnPacker (OUP). Load level0.dat, go to the RAW hex editor, select BINA files, find one named Melee_profiles.BINA (or similar to this). Highlight it, then in the lower box highlight offset (that row which is written there). Now in the main window you should be able to see content of the Melee profile. Now select "Import from file" command (under the box) and import my Striker_melee.BINA (or something like that it is named). That is all. Save it, play the game and find brown striker. If he acts unusual in combat, you have successed . If not, try to find another brown striker (it can be he has another melee pattern). If he still acts like a normal brown striker, then.....something is wrong. X_X

EdT: Thank you for comment. It is on YouTube right now (however, quality is bad IMO).
About Red vs Blue : no....thanks...I think I won't do this for another half-year...
Loser

EdT · 08/05/07 15:08

Loser: Its understandable, if it takes one day for one minute of video, I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis either! :-)

Hopefully, You'll be able to release the improved melee soon.

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