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#76 4/9/11 15:19

Seventeen Seconds
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

@ Dirk: do you have actual figures?  Is it higher than the 2.8 million that the IP originally sold for?  I did a quick calculation: if we sold 200,000 copies at $40 each, we have 8 million which is probably enough for the IP, development, and drinks to celebrate -- as well as owning a franchise we could either flip (bad!) or develop.  Now, I think those figures are wrong, but selling a couple hundred thousand units is doable for a small studio.  Oni is recognized and digital distribution puts the entire world in our reach.  Oni is too hardcore to go viral but it is hardcore enough to attract a devoted cult following.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting Feral buy the IP for us.  But we can't get certain information without contacts.  I want to know if T2 would sell to an independent, and realistically at what price.  We would put up a certain amount of our own money and then seek backing from investors.  Acquiring backing depends on the legitimacy of our proposal and what confidence investors place in us.  It is not guaranteed but not impossible either.

@ Iritscen: we should definitely talk.  We risk putting in tons of work, just to be crushed by industry lawyers and having work plagiarized, stolen or barred from distribution.  That is a major concern between Guido and myself as well.  I know you're a smart guy but I've been out of the loop for a bit with respects to the mod team.  I would say there's some perception of disorganization right now -- getting explicit about long-term objectives would do a lot to counteract that.  Unless this is full-time for modders (ie. indy studio with guaranteed IP rights), there needs to be a lot of mutual reassurance of what we're working towards.  Keeping a team this scattered moving forward is always the hardest issue, especially with the amount of uncertainty stemming from the total silence of the IP owners.  Let me know how I can contact you, I'm coming up on free time again (the last few years in my life have been ridiculous). 

@ LegoJesus: +1 to Mukade.

Last edited by Seventeen Seconds (4/9/11 15:22)

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#77 4/9/11 15:26

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

I'm online now, dude, you should just sign onto YIM smile


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#78 4/9/11 15:32

Seventeen Seconds
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Hard drive got dropped -- send me your address and I'll D/L it

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#79 4/9/11 15:33

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Oh, sorry to hear it.  Well, my user name on Yahoo is the same as here.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#80 4/9/11 16:05

Mukade
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe any time we've actually tried to contact T2 about Oni, we haven't gotten a reply. It would be a dream come true if we could pull it off, but in all the time I've been here, I haven't seen any progress at all towards that end.


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#81 4/9/11 16:44

Jon God
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Seventeen Seconds wrote:

@ Dirk: do you have actual figures?  Is it higher than the 2.8 million that the IP originally sold for?  I did a quick calculation: if we sold 200,000 copies at $40 each, we have 8 million which is probably enough for the IP, development, and drinks to celebrate -- as well as owning a franchise we could either flip (bad!) or develop.  Now, I think those figures are wrong, but selling a couple hundred thousand units is doable for a small studio.  Oni is recognized and digital distribution puts the entire world in our reach.  Oni is too hardcore to go viral but it is hardcore enough to attract a devoted cult following.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting Feral buy the IP for us.  But we can't get certain information without contacts.  I want to know if T2 would sell to an independent, and realistically at what price.  We would put up a certain amount of our own money and then seek backing from investors.  Acquiring backing depends on the legitimacy of our proposal and what confidence investors place in us.  It is not guaranteed but not impossible either.

@ Iritscen: we should definitely talk.  We risk putting in tons of work, just to be crushed by industry lawyers and having work plagiarized, stolen or barred from distribution.  That is a major concern between Guido and myself as well.  I know you're a smart guy but I've been out of the loop for a bit with respects to the mod team.  I would say there's some perception of disorganization right now -- getting explicit about long-term objectives would do a lot to counteract that.  Unless this is full-time for modders (ie. indy studio with guaranteed IP rights), there needs to be a lot of mutual reassurance of what we're working towards.  Keeping a team this scattered moving forward is always the hardest issue, especially with the amount of uncertainty stemming from the total silence of the IP owners.  Let me know how I can contact you, I'm coming up on free time again (the last few years in my life have been ridiculous). 

@ LegoJesus: +1 to Mukade.

Well, who is "us"?  I doubt they would sell to some ramble of people. The paperwork would to do such a thing would be awful. You'd probably have to at least form some little company, so you have a name to buy Oni with.


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PSN: Jon_God
XBL: Ernie The Bear

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#82 4/9/11 18:19

Yoriko
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Question is: Why would Take2 even bother to hold on to the Oni IP? What could they possibly do with it?

Why wouldnt they sell it to us for a realistic ammount of money?

EDIT: Btw, it's golden what you're planning here and I'd be more than willing to donate my lunch money to see this progress wink

EDIT 2: Oh and I mean money for a really big lunch for 20 people or so just so you know wink

Last edited by Yoriko (4/9/11 18:24)


-I noticed that the hackers of oni community made a lot of modifications before they locked me up, do you have any idea what they want with an old game? -Modifications? What kind of modifications?
-Hard to tell, without getting a look at things but it looks like they're repurposing it. -Why?
-Beats me, all the game has is brutal melee combat and furious gunplay. -I dont like the sound of that.....

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#83 4/9/11 18:43

Seventeen Seconds
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Paperwork is paperwork.  It would be a 100+ page business document outlining the entire development process from start to finish, and it would probably end up far bigger as the project picks up support.  And yes you would have to form a startup company.  Everyone is more comfortable when you formalize the process.  I do think there's some value in growing your concept organically (take for example DotA, the warcraft 3 custom game) but IP rights are a serious issue and it's something to think ahead about.

Since we don't know the price or even if the IP rights are on offer, this is still too hypothetical to argue about.  What would be crucial:

1) Can the IP rights be acquired?  At what price?
2) Can a team which can realistically accomplish this project be assembled?
3) Can the project be funded through completion, and will it be realistically profitable enough to draw investment?

These are the major issues and in some ways the fact that it's a known IP is a pro, not a con.  There are certain ways of sourcing capital (ie. crowdsourcing from the community, which Yoriko is basically saying) we couldn't do in starting a company with no visibility.  2nd, we can afford to run the project on a shoestring (like bungie did in the 90s) because we see both potential in the concept and enjoyment in the work itself.  Finally, the IP is worth very little to Take 2 because they're a massive studio which will pour money and talent into their best return, like GTA.  Oni is a niche game and will never post the sales that GTA or MW2 will, that doesn't mean the IP isn't gold to a smaller studio which could focus on a niche audience.

If we could literally draw up a legal document to protect everyone and pre-sell Oni to 200,000 hardcore fans at that $40, we have 8 million to develop the game with, over 3 years.  That does not sound unrealistic to me -- at all.

Don't let Take 2 see this post anyone

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#84 4/9/11 19:18

Lukas Kreator
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

2) I would gladly try to contribute with some code.

Last edited by Lukas Kreator (4/9/11 19:21)

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#85 4/9/11 19:20

Mukade
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Seventeen Seconds wrote:

Don't let Take 2 see this post anyone

It would be a supreme effort to make them see this post -_-



@1 Yeah, I have no kind of idea even what margin they would sell for, ie, how many zeroes we're talking about, could be anywhere from 2 or 3 all the way to 5 or 6.
@2 Hey, give me 5 or 6 years and I'll be in and out of Game Development course in post-sec, with the necessary skills to lend any sort of hand. Hell, if I get hired on to a game company, I can mention it to the figure heads and see if they'll take it lol ^_^
@3 Now that's the big question. I mean, we could do something like Minecraft, not a fully "official" game, one of the fundamental differences would be that they came up with the idea, we would have to get the rights. As for "profitable", I don't think that it would matter too much. I mean, yeah, we'd have to make sure we'd draw at least as much as we spent, but this would basically be by fans for fans, not necessarily for the profit.

In any event, we're still looking at a decade before this would be done, less if we were to someone manage to start now. Still, it's always nice talking about it.


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#86 5/9/11 0:46

Dirk Gently
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

This is not going to happen. Seventeen Seconds, unless you have a couple mil on hand right now, nobody is going to have the funds to do this. If you want to discuss this, lets take it to a private setting to work out the logistics.

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#87 5/9/11 9:07

Samer
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

thanks LegoJesus big_smile really appreciate it smile


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#88 5/9/11 10:54

Seventeen Seconds
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

@DG: I agree that this discussion is getting a little out of hand.  I suppose I just felt like stirring the pot a bit cool

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#89 5/9/11 15:48

Jon God
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Let me give you a hint. If they were not selling a copy currently, and hadn't been selling one for quite some time. Mixed with them having lost money on it, and having no fanbase, they would probably charge at the very least, six figures.

The cost of the paperwork, and the fact that they maintain the hope that Bungie might try and buy it back again, sometime in the future, in which case they can balloon the price like nuts.

And Oni is still selling, at least on mac. It also has a fanbase.

The lucky thing is that at least Feral is still officially supporting it, meaning you might have a better chance at some contact, or working something out through them.

-JG


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PSN: Jon_God
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#90 6/9/11 7:14

Seventeen Seconds
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Thank you JG but I think this does belong private side at this point.

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#91 6/9/11 14:36

Jon God
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Fair enough, feel free to delete my post if you think it best.


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PSN: Jon_God
XBL: Ernie The Bear

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#92 2/1/12 14:51

Windy
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

neutral

Last edited by Windy (17/1/12 11:09)

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#93 2/1/12 16:25

Lithium
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Er this isn't exactly a job, it's a hobby we don't need more programmers. :l

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#94 2/1/12 20:55

Dirk Gently
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

I am confused as to what having more programmers would mean for this.

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#95 3/1/12 6:23

Windy
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

neutral

Last edited by Windy (17/1/12 11:10)

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#96 3/1/12 11:25

Dirk Gently
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

How though, magic?

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#97 3/1/12 17:23

Lithium
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

Windy, Oni 2 is not a possibility. It won't ever happen. No plans for it have been made by the developers nor us.

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#98 4/1/12 3:44

Windy
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

neutral

Last edited by Windy (17/1/12 11:10)

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#99 4/1/12 6:10

Yoriko
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

It's sad but true.


-I noticed that the hackers of oni community made a lot of modifications before they locked me up, do you have any idea what they want with an old game? -Modifications? What kind of modifications?
-Hard to tell, without getting a look at things but it looks like they're repurposing it. -Why?
-Beats me, all the game has is brutal melee combat and furious gunplay. -I dont like the sound of that.....

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#100 4/1/12 10:11

Delano762
Member

Re: To the community: Oni's "dark future"?

oxe161 wrote:

Windy, Oni 2 is not a possibility. It won't ever happen. No plans for it have been made by the developers nor us.

Shut your toxic waste outflow and keep the faith, goddamnit. And what kind of a video game fan thinks that his favorite (or is it?) game won't ever get a sequel? You too, Yoriko. After all, no plans haven't been made yet, but who said they can't be made?

Last edited by Delano762 (4/1/12 10:24)

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