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#1 11/6/07 6:12

tkstka
Member
Registered: 11/6/07

How about?

If we would buy the damn source from bungie?
or rockstar what ever.. I don't think it would be so expensive after all this time.
We could all donate money and after we have it we could start develop it and make multiplayer and new maps..
Just would be cool.. Freeware to all and I think we could make the whole scene come back to life.

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#2 11/6/07 11:45

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: How about?

... and money is the solution of problems wink
Might be okay collecting 50 € or $ form 200 people - in theory. But will be MS satisfied with 10.000?
(How about a sponsor?)

On the other hand:
Loser, geyser,  SFeLi, Alloc, Edt (and guys I might forgot* (kumo, ssg in past)) working hard on patches, tools and finding stuff. Since a long time.
* (In fact I'm more or less a 'newbe' in this community, that's way: excuse me.)
Would it be okay to give it up this way? ^_^ We waited seven years, maybe we will wait again some years. neutral ... but then: ONI2! big_smile
(Give my hope in serious engine 2/ 3, at least it is geyser's idea of realizing this dream. smile )

If you know a good coder show him Oni to speed up progress. That's what I'm thinking...

Last edited by paradox-01 (11/6/07 11:48)

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#3 11/6/07 16:36

Tosh
Member
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: How about?

Heh, they'd never sell it; and it's Microsoft.. you can't tempt them with money.. they have enough as it is. :X
The only way I can think of getting the source is disassembling it and rewriting it all in C. @_@

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#4 11/6/07 18:52

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: How about?

Actually, Take2 has the property rights to Oni.

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#5 11/6/07 21:07

Tosh
Member
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: How about?

Ah whoops, I thought they died and sold it back to Bungie for some reason. :X

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#6 12/6/07 12:32

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: How about?

The only way I can think of getting the source is disassembling it and rewriting it all in C.

I'm not supposed to talk about this, but there's been quite some progress in that direction. The Daodan DLL is only the public (and least illegal) tip of the iceberg wink

It might make sense to get back in touch with Omni, who are the only example of a group that has released a non-profit upgrade for Oni after being granted access to Oni's source by the legal owner, Take 2.

Give my hope in serious engine 2/ 3, at least it is geyser's idea of realizing this dream.

SE3 is still a possibility (no real progress to report, as I've been kinda sticking with Oni lately).

It's not the only possibility, however. Since recently, I have very high expectations for Lugaru 2 and its engine/editor Phoenix.
SE2 or SE3 are primarily intended for FPS, so they require heavy work (especially character animation) to emulate Oni.
Even if one uses Oni's animations and characters (which is of course illegal), one still has to set up transitions and such.
Not to mention melee logic (body impacts, throws, etc) and the corresponding AI behaviour. SE2's melee is rudimentary.
Lugaru, on the contrary, is focused on elaborate melee from the very start (reversals, counter-reversals, you name it...)
L1 wasn't all that good-looking (when it came to gameplay and controls) but L2 looks much better already.

Then there's Pierre's engine, too. Oni's animations are not reproduced perfectly, but it has some really nice melee AI and other gameplay ideas... I'll record some scenes from KP to give you an idea. Later.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#7 12/6/07 12:49

Last_Hero
Member
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: How about?

Interesting...


That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die

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#8 12/6/07 14:47

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: How about?

I remember I played a demo of L2 longer time ago. I made fun to run around and kick someone's ass but the controls wasn't that friendly (?)
On the other hand I didn't saw guns... So one have to import them. (I guess easier than doing this with melee).

Pierre's engine, it's cpu-eating, right? But if it will work I don't care. smile
Then again how far is it developed right now? Is there a possible to import old Oni levels and scripts? (So Oni scripter don't need to learn C or whatever KP's scripts are written in.) Prone and sniper mods would be nice.
What about outdoor levels with some manoeuvrable vehicles? We have so far a few cars, vans, a motorbike, Muro's green VTOL-plane and an helicopter model -- oh and the Iron Demon. SektorZ made him move in a video. Maybe Pierre can use the animation if it is one.

However, somehow it will work.

ps: What potential do has the iceberg? smile

Last edited by paradox-01 (12/6/07 14:50)

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#9 14/6/07 3:09

Pierre
Member
Registered: 24/1/07

Re: How about?

Pierre's engine, it's cpu-eating, right?

I suppose it depends compared to what? It's certainly not as optimized as it could be, but it's very light & friendly compared to what modern games use. It doesn't need a super high-end PC to run, for example.

Is there a possible to import old Oni levels and scripts?

Not directly, no.

What about outdoor levels with some manoeuvrable vehicles? We have so far a few cars, vans, a motorbike, Muro's green VTOL-plane and an helicopter model

There is no technical limit to what the engine supports. Outdoor levels and/or vehicle could work, from a coding point of view. However the art, animations, sounds, all of those have to come from somewhere. And that's usually the big issue. Forget the engine. Doesn't matter if it's mine, Serious Sam's, whatever: there's no new content to feed the engine anyway.

- Pierre

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#10 14/6/07 10:37

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: How about?

(My next post off-topic? I see it as a talk bit of alternatives instead of getting source code.)

there's no new content to feed the engine anyway

Hm, but you create the levels on your own, right? Owldreamer has created a wallpaper (based on real models and ready textures as far as I know): one see a desert, everywhere little rocks, and a helicopter. I wonder if that isn't new stuff for an outdoor test level. What do you think Pierre?

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#11 14/6/07 14:50

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 13/1/07
Website

Re: How about?

Owldreamer has done quite a bit of work on original levels:
http://www.haibane.de/oni/

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#12 17/6/07 4:45

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: How about?

@ paradox:

(My next post off-topic? I see it as a talk bit of alternatives instead of getting source code.)

There are alternatives/equivalents to getting the source code, but they are not something I would talk about on a public forum.

Owldreamer has created a wallpaper (based on real models and ready textures as far as I know): one see a desert, everywhere little rocks, and a helicopter. I wonder if that isn't new stuff for an outdoor test level.

It might be a good idea to check out what you're talking about, man. That thing is not a wallpaper, but an animated sequence. The environment and aircraft are NURBS-based, and not intended for ingame use: it took days to render the scene, in Cinema 4D. You can see the details here: http://oni.bungie.org/forums/index.php?threadid=240

I remember I played a demo of L2 longer time ago. I made fun to run around and kick someone's ass but the controls wasn't that friendly (?)

That would have been Lugaru, not Lugaru 2. The controls in Lugaru are quite different from Oni's, and they don't feel right at a first glance. Once you get used to them, they're OK.
I think the team is well aware of Lugaru's flaws, and will come up with something natural, intuitive and varied at the same time, e.g. adapted to 2-button mice.

On the other hand I didn't saw guns... So one have to import them. (I guess easier than doing this with melee).

Guns are relatively easy to add, yes. Lugaru 2 will have blades (like Lugaru did), and that already means throwing knives and such.
But I hear there will also be bows and arrows, and that's already a long-range weapon with ballistics and an aiming screen.

Is there a possible to import old Oni levels and scripts? (So Oni scripter don't need to learn C or whatever KP's scripts are written in.)

Most Oni scripters I know didn't really bother to master BSL while they had the chance, so it's not like preserving Oni's scripts would help them in any way. As for the few who do know how to script, they won't have trouble mastering any language they need for scripts: SE2's macro language, C, whatever.
As for levels, Pierre can import the geometry directly, but there's much more to a level than the 3D mesh and texturing: there's a lot of extra, "invisible" data without which a level doesn't work. Due to Pierre's choices for visibility and pathfinding, he has to recreate the corresponding data manually for every level, and that takes long.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#13 17/6/07 5:54

paradox-01
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 14/1/07

Re: How about?

It might be a good idea to check out what you're talking about, man. That thing is not a wallpaper, but an animated sequence.

Calm down^^ Owldreamer himself said "The one used in the wallpaper is still the v.02" and I thought "hm, great, maybe Pierre can use the model". But I was wrong okay.
So .. thx for giving me back a little overview.

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#14 17/6/07 6:37

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 14/1/07
Website

Re: How about?

The only wallpapers so far are the shots of Hikari and the lab where she's built.

I didn't mean to flame you, but if you're talking about Oni 2, it's good if you know what exactly has been done so far.
If you have vague ideas about what owldreamer did, and then ask Pierre things based on that approximate picture...

I'll post another reply later, mostly addressing what Pierre said a few posts ago, in response to you.

Last edited by geyser (17/6/07 6:40)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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