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#76 10/24/09 20:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: Various New characters Project

Well, the BGI troops were going to be the enemies Konoko fights (and the Iron Demon as the boss).  We didn't intend for them to always look like rip-offs of Master Chief and have moves ripped off from existing enemy classes, but those models are the placeholders for the actual bad guys you're thinking of.  The idea in time was to alter/replace the models with something else soldier-like, and as far as moves, they could be given abilities like the enemy concepts you came up with in your BGI concepts thread.  But the final models would need to be well-armored and physically strong-looking like the current MC models, because they're planned by BGI to be used in a raid on an armed base.


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#77 10/24/09 20:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Yeah exactly, so I think the "agents" would be a cool class for one of them.  smile

What do you think Samoko?

Edit:  It could be like Agents, and I know Samoko is working on my concepts of Hydra and Hammer.  And I'm not gonna lie I was really stoked on my Wraith idea so I'd love to see that at least make a cameo, maybe not super prevalent.  And other people's ideas, too...  If they have some.  smile

Samoko could use some of the custom movesets he's already made for his other characters (black chief, white chief, casey, kojiro, shinbot...) if he wants with some new models to make widespread baddies.

Last edited by Leus (10/24/09 20:10)


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#78 10/24/09 22:10

Stevinlewis
Member
From: Singapore
Registered: 03/25/09

Re: Various New characters Project

Wait wait wait. By using XSI we can design anything we want and then covert it to some kind of file then added to Oni? Does hat mean were not limited in creating new models? If so, whats all the fighting about? Not enough ideas? O_O I could help big_smile

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#79 10/24/09 22:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Just the effort of creating good-looking models and textures plus the effort of making them into unique characters, it'd be nice if it had some use in some important project ya know?


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#80 10/24/09 23:10

Stevinlewis
Member
From: Singapore
Registered: 03/25/09

Re: Various New characters Project

Well. Im not really good at drawing humans. So dont ask me.   hmm

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#81 10/25/09 05:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Iritscen wrote:

Right.  The purpose of my earlier posts was to give Samoko an idea of our needs, to give him the chance to make something that will get used in the AE; if I know, for instance, that we aren't going to have Konoko fight the head guys in BGI, then I would hate to see him spend time on things that won't meet our needs (like making custom movesets) when he could use that time to do something that would definitely get used (like making six BGI execs instead of four).

But it's his call if he wants to go in a different direction.  I just wanted to prevent Samoko from being hurt later if he found out that his hard work wouldn't be used because it didn't meet our needs.


1- I AM making 6 instead of four

2- I think whatever the final result is they are a huge improvement from what was before ! If u don't agree then by all means use the old ones
teaser.png
I meant the white eyes and badly textured coats ... honestly if i see them in a script I won't bother to play it cz they just looked so bad ... with all the respect to who made them .

3- As Gumby said u don't like them don't use them .. I'm sure they can be useful to other modders and scripters like me or Leus or EdT or anyone else ...


4- Just because i give them move sets doesn't mean u have to use these move sets in the AE scripts i mean they were give tankers and muro's trac in the AE for a reason if they weren't meant to fight they would have been given scientists or shinatama or something .. in the future u might need them to fight,  like maybe  Konoko raids their office ... & not to forget other scripters who are not on the AE team who have really good ideas ... like Leus's survival - my modified dream lab etc ...

5- I won't be hurt if u don't use them smile some of the characters I made have become more popular than any AE made characters - any mods I make are 1 - for me to enjoy 2 - for everyone else. As long as I feel happy with them and feel I did a good job I won't be hurt

6- Are u really saying the old ones are better ?? and more fitting to the AE plan just cz 2 out of 6 of mine have shades on ?? and cz I'll give them move sets other than Muro's and tanker's which they currently have ??


also the heads of the BGI the most important members can't fight ?? at all ? that makes no sense ...what's the purpose of these biotech eyes seeing office papers from across their desk ? Griffin & Muro rarely fought  (they left the fighting to their minions) but that doesn't mean they couldn't

Creativity should be encouraged ... when i said before I feel we are restricting ourselves this is what i meant.

@ Stevin "Not enough ideas? O_O I could help" vs " ... So dont ask me."  I don't get u hmm

@ Leus "Samoko could use some of the custom movesets he's already made for his other characters (black chief, white chief, casey, kojiro, shinbot...) if he wants with some new models to make widespread baddies."

yeah buddy i was thinking that too smile actually these are the move sets i was planning to give the agents ( well mixing these tracs)

Last edited by Samer (10/25/09 05:10)


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#82 10/25/09 06:10

Stevinlewis
Member
From: Singapore
Registered: 03/25/09

Re: Various New characters Project

Wow you talk alot of sense Sam. Lol that sounded stupid. The thing I said, but what i acctually meant was if you want I could help with the uniform and stuff. But I see theres alot of scriptors and theres not really a demand for any "low-tech" drawing. So ill stay outta it smile.

Cuz I know how hard it is to "copy" from a picture and "paste" it into the XSI. It may get destroyed in the process of being transfered.

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#83 10/25/09 08:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: Various New characters Project

Samoko wrote:

I meant the white eyes and badly textured coats ... honestly if i see them in a script I won't bother to play it cz they just looked so bad ... with all the respect to who made them .

I didn't mind the coats, really.  The only large issue I had with those models was that they looked too scientist-y (hence my silly mistake earlier when I called them that).

6- Are u really saying the old ones are better ?? and more fitting to the AE plan just cz 2 out of 6 of mine have shades on ?? and cz I'll give them move sets other than Muro's and tanker's which they currently have ??

As I said, any time you spend giving them a new moveset is wasted as far as the AE is concerned, but if you want to make a scripted scenario where they are skilled fighters, go right ahead.  And shades are definitely more suited to field agents than to the heads of BGI.  Perhaps you're just not interested in designing guys who look and act like executives; if so, that's okay.  But we do need to be clear on what you're trying to create, because right now you're copying the look of the execs but going in a different direction with everything else about them.

also the heads of the BGI the most important members can't fight ?? at all ? that makes no sense ...what's the purpose of these biotech eyes seeing office papers from across their desk ? Griffin & Muro rarely fought  (they left the fighting to their minions) but that doesn't mean they couldn't

A. Muro is a Daodan host, and a young "punk" who unseated the previous bosses of the Syndicate, so that's apples and oranges.
B. Griffin rose up through the ranks in part due to his service in Black Ops; that's why he can fight.  TCTF is a military structure, however, whereas BGI is a corporate one.  So, apples and oranges again.
C. BGI's heads got where they are because they were effective at being two-faced crime bosses and business leaders at the same time.  Therefore their power structure is most similar to that of the present-day mafia.
D. Do mafia heads fight, or do they let their underlings do the fighting?  Do they rely on guns and their own strength to defend themselves, or let their burly bodyguards protect them?  Most of them are too old to be a physical threat anyway by the time they are in power.

Creativity should be encouraged ... when i said before I feel we are restricting ourselves this is what i meant.

Now is not the time to re-think the entire premise of the story just so that you can justify sticking huge headsets on the faces of the technocratic elite of Oni's world and make them run around fighting like thugs.  Please try to have more respect for the collective work of the community that was here years before you and worked out the premise and story behind BGI.


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#84 10/25/09 09:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

"I didn't mind the coats, really.  The only large issue I had with those models was that they looked too scientist-y"

The thing that makes them look too scientist-y IS the coats what else is there ? .. and until I started to work on them they were completely forgotten by you and others.


"As I said, any time you spend giving them a new moveset is wasted as far as the AE is concerned, but if you want to make a scripted scenario where they are skilled fighters, go right ahead.  And shades are definitely more suited to field agents than to the heads of BGI."

mm yeah I never saw a business men \ executives \ mafia heads ...  in shades what was i thinking. "skilled fighters ? they should be able to defend themselves if they are so technologically advanced ... she knocks down their weapon and they beg for mercy ?

u can just assign a different TRAC in the ONCC if that's such a big issue

"Perhaps you're just not interested in designing guys who look and act like executives; if so, that's okay.  But we do need to be clear on what you're trying to create, because right now you're copying the look of the execs but going in a different direction with everything else about them."

I'm not interested in making 6 statues, i wouldn't have bothered with texturing the legs if they'll just be seated. for a 5 sec cut-scene that no one knows when will be made.
where was it determined how they should act ? i didn't find anything on the wiki

also Copying the look ... u just said they are not like the exec should be ... I copied nothing I started from scratch from the scientists whether that be textures or TRBS or TRAC
and I think I'll name them BGI agents .

"Do mafia heads fight, or do they let their underlings do the fighting?  Do they rely on guns and their own strength to defend themselves, or let their burly bodyguards protect them?  Most of them are too old to be a physical threat anyway by the time they are in power."

what happens when their body guards die this is a video game konoko will defeat the body guards then they just stand there and die ?
and when i meet a mafia head i'll ask them and let u know ^_^


"Now is not the time to re-think the entire premise of the story just so that you can justify sticking huge headsets on the faces of the technocratic elite of Oni's world and make them run around fighting like thugs.  Please try to have more respect for the collective work of the community that was here years before you and worked out the premise and story behind BGI."


the story is unclear (form what I've read on the wiki there are 2 possible storylines) and not final and where did i des-respect anyone .. also try to respect new original ideas u had new ideas when u joined didn't u ? the depot the AE installer for example sometimes change is good. the com guy has the same mic and that's what fits in the Oni universe no where in the wiki mentioned how they should look like, and this is a game made years ago suddenly we want it to be the most technologial game ever ? we'll have to re do everything consoles ... cars ... doors to fit to this super technological idea u're drawing.

the wiki says the models are not final ... now if it's not ur personal taste that's another story and it seemed to me ur opinons were made on the go not based on a reference . and if u mentioned it before i spent hours and hours on the TRBS i maybe could have removed it or re-sized it the mic.

end line I'm almost done making them there will be 6 variants some won't have shades 1 won't have mic I'll name them BGI agents ... and I'll upload them .. anyone who wants to give them a try is welcome to and to use them or modify them in any way he sees fit ... if not I won't lose anything . I don' get paid for every download.

but still I'm wondering what is making them so not executives fit ?
the shades ? only 2 of them will have shades so u can use the other 4 ( u can reuse 2 of them to fill the 6th and 5th ... there are only 3 furies - 4 cops - 4 scientists anyway anty they get repeated.

the mic ? 1 of them won't have a mic copy it and modify the TXMP's to make 6 new variants it's easy i did it. or simply use the old TRBS with the new textures no mic will appear

the TRAC ? u say they'll be in a cut-scene what does it matter if they have mutant muro's TRAC or a thug's they won't be seen using the moves according to what u have planned.

btw I didn't join here to fight with anyone especially u Iritscen. so that's not what I'm trying to do just to be clear.


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#85 10/25/09 09:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

btw Gumby i want to know what u think and EdT and Rossy and demos they are AE team too ? right ?


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#86 10/25/09 10:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

I understand, Sam.  It can be a frustrating situation to have your hard work challenged but, like you've said, you've got nothing to lose.  No matter what happens, your characters will get used to their full potential at least once (my new mod is going to include all cool/unique characters and updated whenever more are released).

You guys, maybe the BGI exects should look more like civilians that scientists.  Short open coats, full ties, slacks and tucked in undershirts?  Sounds more exec-like to me anyway.


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#87 10/25/09 10:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

I agree with u Leus I think normal civilian looking characters will be more fitting as executives ( the ones Iritscen speaks of) ... come to think of it why would they be wearing coats in a meeting room ? ... black pants black tie and short black jacket seem more appropriate .  (since shades are not appropriate neither are coats if u think of it)
Scientists wear coats bec well they are working in a lab .. why would executives wear them ?


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#88 10/25/09 10:10

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 01/13/07
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

What I think will help in dealing with creative differences is more communication and information.  I suggest creating a new forum here at OCF with access limited to certain members (similar to the Mac Testing Forum) to map out the specifics for completing Oni.

For example, currently, Samoko has limited information on the plans for the BGI level, so he has his ideas. Iritscen and others who have been working on the concept have another vision.  Thus we have a creative difference. 

However, if we use the new forum, then all the details can be shared in private and we can move forward.  For a team to be successful in its endeavors, all its members need to be on the same page.

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#89 10/25/09 11:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Can I come to the super exclusive VIP forum guyz?   big_smile


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#90 10/25/09 11:10

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 05/29/07

Re: Various New characters Project

I didn't know there wuz one  hmm


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#91 10/25/09 11:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: Various New characters Project

Well, actually, the wiki was always going to be used for discussing how to complete/improve Oni.  There was never any intention of making any of the work or plans private.  Part of the problem at the moment (and it's no one's fault) is that this discussion started before the wiki could be updated with details on a BGI storyline.  Since the story is supposed to come before working on the needs of the story, we've inadvertently put the cart before the horse.

As soon as the AE Team is done with this next AE release (probably no more than two weeks, hopefully less), we can get the story up.  Once people see the detailed storyline, we will be able to have a more productive conversation.  Right now it may seem like nothing was going on with BGI when in fact things have been in motion again for about two months.

Edit: There is no hidden forum (besides the Mac Testing one), we were speaking hypothetically.


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#92 10/25/09 11:10

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 05/29/07

Re: Various New characters Project

OOO, next AE is comnig out soon? awesome big_smile


"He looks mean enough to tear my arm off and beat me to death with it. In fact, he looks mean enough to tear his OWN arm off and beat me to death with it."

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#93 10/25/09 11:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Oh shnit, is it gonna support BSL packages?


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#94 10/25/09 12:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: Various New characters Project

Yup.


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#95 10/25/09 12:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Iritscen if I release these characters as not executives but as agents ...
higher class than BGI warriors ... but not as high as executives .. kinda like com guys are for syndicate but more fighting and weapon able ...

and if u like the idea I can make BGi executives in like civilian clothes but more formal : black pants black jacket various shirt and tie colors

and no special Tracs and no special add ons (mics or visors or shades) and make them a bit older
I'll just use the face textures I used on the agents but with the different face meshes they'll look different than agents .. do u like that idea ?


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#96 10/25/09 12:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Man I'm super stoked on everything that's being discussed in this thread, just so you guys all know.   big_smile


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#97 10/25/09 12:10

Mukade
Member
From: Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
Registered: 05/29/07

Re: Various New characters Project

I've been thinking, maybe there should b a level where ya gotta use stealth more than brute force. BGI would be perfect, sneaking around a BGI building take out guards without them noticing an stuff smile


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#98 10/25/09 12:10

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

I think a lot of original Oni levels are supposed to be like that.  The developers just didn't count on how good people would get at Oni.

Edit:  Or they just left the option open for either method of play.

Last edited by Leus (10/25/09 12:10)


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#99 10/25/09 13:10

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: Various New characters Project

Samoko wrote:

Iritscen if I release these characters as not executives but as agents ...
higher class than BGI warriors ... but not as high as executives .. kinda like com guys are for syndicate but more fighting and weapon able ...

and if u like the idea I can make BGi executives in like civilian clothes but more formal : black pants black jacket various shirt and tie colors

and no special Tracs and no special add ons (mics or visors or shades) and make them a bit older
I'll just use the face textures I used on the agents but with the different face meshes they'll look different than agents .. do u like that idea ?

This might be the best compromise, especially because I know why the BGI execs were based on scientists but didn't agree with the reasoning, so I won't defend it ^_^.  Normal business attire would suit them better (pun intended).

I am definitely open to the idea of mixing agents in with the other more physical BGI troops we had in mind.  I had already told Leus I liked a number of his suggested enemy types in the "BGI" thread, including some less physical ones, so if you can unify your agent-modeling work with his concepts (which you were probably already planning on doing), then we can probably continue to make progress, even without the storyline up yet.

@Leus: Yes, I also think BW wanted to let people play either way.  Some of us already do play pretty stealthily in Oni because we find it more fun that way.  Well, I could say more on this subject, but I won't, not in this thread wink  I'll just say that we have long wanted to "redeem stealth" in terms of making it more feasible and rewarding of a path to follow.


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#100 10/25/09 13:10

Samer
Member
From: Lebanon
Registered: 09/04/09
Website

Re: Various New characters Project

Yay ^_^ I'm glad we finally came to a compromise big_smile  The BGI AGENTS will be up soon ^_^ the BGI executives a bit later tongue ...
cz it's a shame they look that cool and won't be kicked in the face by konoko neutral tongue

and hehe on this part tongue"especially because I know why the BGI execs were based on scientists but didn't agree with the reasoning, so I won't defend it"

and on the subject Leus said I used to use stealth when I first started playing Oni level 3 in particular ... boy I repeated that level a lot D:
but when i got better in fighting i stopped caring abt stealth and just went and picked up fights with everyone O_o


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