Anyone here bored besides me?

T_W_D · 10/15/09 13:10

not eating meat and getting protein are not mutually exclusive.

Are you talking about eggs and fish? Technically, that's also meat: the flesh of fishes and of the unborn birds. People can live on that, I agree. And if you mean that vegetable food can provide you with proteins, I disagree: 1) it's the other kind of proteins, 2) meat also contains other nutrients that vegetable food doesn't.

It's the academic community.

There's also a number of academics who deny the extends of this environmental destruction Greenpeace talks about.

Phydur · 10/15/09 13:10

T_W_D wrote:

As resources--including drinking water soon--are stretched thin, massive war is a very feasible potential.
They've tried to scare us with dwindling resouces and mass pollution, like, 60 years ago. I personally don't believe these theories anymore. Twist some facts, add some long scientific words, show up on TV, and there you are with yet another scenario of Armageddon. It's becoming boring. And if it really reaches the point of no return, I think we'll adapt.

... by growing chrysalises, or die like all the others, choking on dead air and foul water.

i also agree with gumby. "why are they made from meat?" lol.

Iritscen · 10/15/09 13:10

Gumby was quoting T_W_D.

Leus · 10/15/09 13:10

Sigh.

Animals have done nothing to deserve our treatment of them. We no longer need them to survive, we can be at least just as healthy without consuming them, and the livestock industry accounts for a staggering amount of the environmental threat we face. Why do we continue to enslave, exploit, torture and consume them? Frivolous enjoyment. But I guess that's considered a good enough reason for action in societies like ours. T_W_D will be all over that justification.

"We have enclosed the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feather so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the devil in human form." -Dean William Ralph Inge

Whatevs. That's all I've got.

Phydur · 10/15/09 13:10

Leus wrote:

Sigh.
Animals have done nothing to deserve our treatment of them. We no longer need them to survive, we can be at least just as healthy without consuming them, and the livestock industry accounts for a staggering amount of the environmental threat we face. Why do we continue to enslave, exploit, torture and consume them? Frivolous enjoyment. But I guess that's considered a good enough reason for action in societies like ours. T_W_D will be all over that justification.
"We have enclosed the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feather so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the devil in human form." -Dean William Ralph Inge
Whatevs. That's all I've got.

personally i couldnt live without meat. i like food like spaghetti too much.

but as long as there are people like you not all hope is lost.

... lol im reminded of the hitchhiker's guild to the galaxy where they went to the restaurant at the end of the universe, and the pig thing got mad at Aurthur for ordering a salad.

Gumby · 10/15/09 13:10

Ok, what do you propose we do for the tens of thousands of people working in animal meat related industries in just the USA alone?

Iritscen · 10/15/09 14:10

Phydur wrote:

personally i couldnt live without meat. i like food like spaghetti too much.

Hmm, that could be misunderstood by people who don't eat spaghetti with meatballs . But I guess that's a universal dish these days. Speaking of which, I think I know what I'm making for dinner tonight!

Gumby · 10/15/09 14:10

Iritscen wrote:

Phydur wrote:
personally i couldnt live without meat. i like food like spaghetti too much.
Hmm, that could be misunderstood by people who don't eat spaghetti with meatballs . But I guess that's a universal dish these days. Speaking of which, I think I know what I'm making for dinner tonight!

Ditto.

T_W_D · 10/15/09 14:10

Animals have done nothing to deserve our treatment of them.

Tell a lion about it.

And what did innocent bacteries and viruses do? *Gasp* We wash them off and we don't allow them to live inside of us! We're such sadists!

Last edited by T_W_D (10/15/09 14:10)

Iritscen · 10/15/09 14:10

Well, to be fair, animals very rarely go out of their way to attack people. Most attacks are due to starvation, getting too close to their young, or confusing us for something else.

And I think there's a clear difference between bacteria and mammals unless you don't believe mammals are conscious and have emotions.

I just wanted to throw that out there, but I am not a vegetarian myself; although I've considered it, I barely get enough nutrition as it is.

Gumby · 10/15/09 15:10

I just see it as the natural order of things. We eat animals, animals eat other animals, those animals eat the plants, which "eat" the sunlight dirt that is made up of rock and the remains of everything else.

levka1 · 10/15/09 15:10

woha, how this topic came from i am bored, to racism, faith, then communism and then people who eat plants or meat ? well i wont write anything here, as i already noticed people dont really like my posts, and that i ruin each topic + unrelated staff

paradox-01 · 10/15/09 15:10

Methinks, this logic contains an evil dilemma:

"Ok, what do you propose we do for the tens of thousands of people working in animal meat related industries in just the USA alone?"

A senator might wondering the same for soldiers and supplier. When he close this or that base he will very probably lose their votes because he destroy their income. War industry...

These two kinds of farmers of death don't lose their jobs because of "frivolous enjoyment" but it's the "path of least resistance". We are afraid of doing "better" because there's no clear alternative. The moral code is there. But solutions?

Gumby · 10/15/09 16:10

You can post, just avoid topics of religion, especially about how bad one or more religons are.

Leus · 10/15/09 16:10

People use the job market as an argument too much. The fact stands that if the world were to be as it should be, there would be TONS of markets and lines of work that would need to go. The people would find something else to do; perhaps farming to make up for all the meat we're no longer eating? Oh, no, the majority of the crops grown today go to FEED the livestock industry instead of the billion plus malnourished people on the planet.

T_W_D I'm not saying we're sadistic. The way society functions today is by a long-since self-perpetuated notion of entitlement and ignorance of the consequences of actions. We grow up, becoming what society makes us, then make our children the same way. People don't realize the suffering they demand with their lifestyles. You may think it's pointless to care, but it's dehumanizing not too. I don't know what's going on in Russia, but the U.S. is filled with emptiness... Lol. Filled with emptiness. Everyone is mostly numb but dissatisfied and seemingly with hints of frantic feelings because we don't know what to DO with all this luxury we have or what it all means, what's the point? Where's the meaning? If we're meant to be independent, climb to the top, trust no one but ourselves and live comfortable while everyone else suffers, how can we love? We go from quick fix to quick fix, drink coffee in the morning, flirt with a girl at lunch, turn on the TV with a bag of chips at night. All brief and fleeting attempts at satisfaction.

I believe the people are good at heart, everyone is. Most are just unwilling to try and find what that good means because it would likely entail the rejection of the lifestyle they've devoted their entire lives to so far, and that's hard. And the further through life you travel, the higher up the ladder you climb, the more difficult and intimidating it becomes to turn around and hop off.

Shade · 10/15/09 16:10

Damn, 115 replys. Didn't knew this thread became popular. LOL!

When did this thread became a *religion thread* I didnt want this to be a religion topic. Can we all please go back on topic? And yeah I'm Non-denominational so I really don't care about this subject you guys brought up. It just causes to much drama so I'm not getting involved. Can we please go back on topic before things get unhandled here?

Last edited by Shade (10/15/09 16:10)

Leus · 10/15/09 16:10

Right.

On topic: No. I am not bored.

adorage · 10/15/09 16:10

lol, I came home and wanted to respond to Leus' response to my post and found that the topic had already changed twice again so now I think I'd interrupt the discussion if I wrote about what I wanted to write about.

On the topic of meat, I think there's a huge difference between hunting, killing and eating otherwise free animals (which is the way other carnivores get their meat) on the one hand and locking them into tiny cages, feeding them growth hormones and butchering them after a short life filled with nothing but misery and fear on the other hand. I get why many people think we shouldn't be killing any animals (I know a guy who's even been a vegan *rawfoodist* for years and he's healthy still, so this is not just wishful thinking though maybe not healthy - or even possible - for everyone) but for me this is the big moral difference.
The problem goes deeper however. Every destructive move this culture makes kills animals. Whether we're talking about deforestation - for agricultural reasons or for wood "harvesting" - the growth of cities, oil drilling, pollution of the oceans, I could go on for pages, it all kills animals. It's not just the eating part.

Okay, maybe I've gone a bit off topic now... if it's too far off just ignore it.
Leus, I'll respond to what you wrote earlier tomorrow, when I'm a little less tired

Leus · 10/15/09 16:10

Alright, I'm stoked to see your response man.

As for everything we do killing animals, yeah. Pretty much everything we do kills everything, to put it into a ridiculous generalization. Vegetarianism or veganism is just one step, but it's one I found I have been able to take. I wonder what my next one will be.

Gumby · 10/15/09 17:10

Leus wrote:

People use the job market as an argument too much. The fact stands that if the world were to be as it should be, there would be TONS of markets and lines of work that would need to go. The people would find something else to do; perhaps farming to make up for all the meat we're no longer eating? Oh, no, the majority of the crops grown today go to FEED the livestock industry instead of the billion plus malnourished people on the planet.

Its not as easy as that, you just can't uproot that many people, plus the involved families. The world is not as it should be, and enough people are unemployed already.

Lithium · 10/15/09 17:10

yea they were paleolitchic. Neolithic means when we stopped hunting and decided to farm. Lol we were learning about it this semester. And some fu said it was a mistake to switch to farming. But if we didnt we would have exctinct so many creature

oops didnt see our fifth page

Last edited by Lithium (10/15/09 17:10)

Gumby · 10/15/09 17:10

Most creatures we hunted to extinction were hunted for pleasure\pelts\whatever, not for meat.

T_W_D · 10/15/09 18:10

don't know what's going on in Russia, but the U.S. is filled with emptiness

Emptiness is a person's own choice. I don't think my life is empty. And generally, our lifes here aren't that calm and steady to become empty.

Lithium · 10/15/09 18:10

Gumby wrote:

Most creatures we hunted to extinction were hunted for pleasure\pelts\whatever, not for meat.

Yes because we're neolithic. If we continued to have to kill like 3 animals per day, and every other family did too, we prolly have many animals dead

Shade · 10/15/09 22:10

Now were talking about dead animals??? O__O

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