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#1 07/10/09 16:07

Shade
Member
From: OH, USA
Registered: 06/08/08

How good are Mac computers?

Does anyone know how good Mac computers are? I'm interested in getting one and I had plans on saving for one "if I start working". I've used one before but I never owned one. All I want to know is, Are they worth getting? How fast are they? Can Oni run better on the Mac way better than the Windows version? I'm just sick of Windows right now I wanted to try something new. Also, How much are they usually worth?

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#2 07/10/09 16:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Haha, this is a loaded question, you know.  People get very touchy about their choice of computing platform.  smile

I have owned Macs for 15 years and have always found them to be a better experience than Windows (I've used Windows from 3.11 to XP).  OS X is way more secure (in practice, if not theory) than Windows and doesn't get in the way when I am trying to work.

They have sometimes been accused of not having enough software available, but it's really only in the area of gaming where I would agree with that.  Now that we can boot into Windows we can play Windows games as well as PC gamers, but it still means rebooting for games (and dealing with Windows), then rebooting to use the Mac OS for everything else, which might be a pain.  Any other kinds of software that the Mac lacks are made up for by the fact that we are using *nix machines and can natively run all that open source stuff that was originally developed for Linux.

Macs do not run Oni better than Windows does.  Currently performance is actually inferior because we are running an app written for PowerPC Macs on Intel machines.  But since Macs now use the same Intel technology as PCs, their overall speed is similar, and they can use high-end graphics cards too, if that's your thing.

Any questions about prices are best answered by visiting the Store at apple.com, but I generally find that prices are equivalent when you compare equivalent product.  I.e., don't compare them to the really cheap PCs because Apple never builds machines that cheaply.  But the Mac mini is quite affordable and often the best choice for a switcher.


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#3 07/10/09 16:07

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Macs cost more. Don't hide that fact. smile

Also, if we ever get Oni multiplayer working, it won't work on a Mac. tongue

What exactly are you sick of in Windows?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#4 07/10/09 16:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Gumby wrote:

Macs cost more. Don't hide that fact. smile

They don't in my opinion.  Of course I have seen people save money by buying the really cheap PCs and then spending copious hours dealing with the spyware and other problems the OS and sub-par hardware gives them, so it's really a matter of Total Cost of Ownership.  Personally, just looking at how Microsoft does business and how they behave makes me inherently not trust their end product, no matter how many times they repackage it with shinier GUis.  But that's a matter of intuition, and some people don't get the willies from MS like others do.

Also, if we ever get Oni multiplayer working, it won't work on a Mac. tongue

I'd be careful if I were you, those words might be hard to swallow later when you have to eat them.


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#5 07/10/09 17:07

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

...propoganda. If you don't use limewire\torrents, you don't have to worry about it.

I'm not talking about "really cheap" btw. Get quality hardware, even if you buy cheap. The thing to do is get a good deal.

We aren't in the era of Windows 98 anymore, Microsoft is paying attention to security now. smile

"How Microsoft does buisness"? Explain. tongue

The price point is debatable. You can get a good PC or a Mac for the same price, about. PCs do have a wider selection though.

EDIT: I'm not getting to the point here. My point is this: either OS can do what you want it to. It is silly to believe that one is hugely superior.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#6 07/10/09 17:07

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 10/17/08

Re: How good are Mac computers?

iritscen
"once you go mac you never go back"  got that from some jhon tv thingy or whatever his name is.


Oni IRC | Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!

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#7 07/10/09 19:07

Shade
Member
From: OH, USA
Registered: 06/08/08

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Gumby wrote:

Macs cost more. Don't hide that fact. smile

Also, if we ever get Oni multiplayer working, it won't work on a Mac. tongue

What exactly are you sick of in Windows?

I'm kinda tired of it and kinda bored of it tongue Well I have a Sony and it runs Windows XP and I have a crap loud of viruses on it, etc. And I think it's pretty much dead. I can't find a anti virus program that will delete all the viruses, trojans, etc. And I am thinking of throwing this computer away if it gets even more damaged. All of its cause of my 16 year old brother who thinks he knows everything about computers, etc. And he doesn't. I've taken computer classes my Sophomore and Freshmen year at High School and I've even taken a Multimedia class as well.

I was also told that Windows Vista likes to crash allot, etc. And it's slow and has a few bugs in it. I heard they are making a new Windows and it will have Vista's interface. I pretty much grew up on Windows and Microsoft any way. I need to take more computer classes when ever i get the chance. If this computer gets destroyed anymore, I'm throwing it away lol. Trojans already destroyed my DVD Rom Driver and it wont work at all anymore.

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#8 07/10/09 20:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

I can also add that many Windows users end up reinstalling their OS sooner or later over the life of a computer.  This is virtually unheard of on a Mac.  Our computers don't ship with a bunch of third-party junk pre-installed and you have to try pretty hard to actually slow it down with your own software.  Not only do we not have spyware and viruses to worry about (to any real degree), but OS X is based on Unix, which is more solid than anything Microsoft can and would want to build.  Also, Apple can guarantee a stable environment much easier than MS can, because the hardware and software are designed by the same company.  You might find a Mac to be a refreshing change!

Interesting sidenote: Many Windows users disparage Macs but have never actually owned one or spent much time on one.  The most ground they will give is to say that Macs are good at some things but PCs good at others, but they don't actually know that from firsthand experience; they just repeat what others have said for years (and some of that information is quite outdated).  Most Mac users, on the other hand, use Windows machines all the time since they're pretty hard to avoid, and many of us owned one before becoming devoted Mac owners.  So we actually know both sides of the fence pretty well.

Anyway, it's no small decision to get a Mac after using Windows.  Would this computer be used by other members of the family?


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#9 07/10/09 20:07

Shade
Member
From: OH, USA
Registered: 06/08/08

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Iritscen wrote:

I can also add that many Windows users end up reinstalling their OS sooner or later over the life of a computer.  This is virtually unheard of on a Mac.  Our computers don't ship with a bunch of third-party junk pre-installed and you have to try pretty hard to actually slow it down with your own software.  Not only do we not have spyware and viruses to worry about (to any real degree), but OS X is based on Unix, which is more solid than anything Microsoft can and would want to build.  Also, Apple can guarantee a stable environment much easier than MS can, because the hardware and software are designed by the same company.  You might find a Mac to be a refreshing change!

Interesting sidenote: Many Windows users disparage Macs but have never actually owned one or spent much time on one.  The most ground they will give is to say that Macs are good at some things but PCs good at others, but they don't actually know that from firsthand experience; they just repeat what others have said for years (and some of that information is quite outdated).  Most Mac users, on the other hand, use Windows machines all the time since they're pretty hard to avoid, and many of us owned one before becoming devoted Mac owners.  So we actually know both sides of the fence pretty well.

Anyway, it's no small decision to get a Mac after using Windows.  Would this computer be used by other members of the family?

Yeah I had this computer for like 3 years. We never had any problems with it at all, Most of its from my brother downloading allot of crap onto the computer. It sucks too because I cant get allot done on it, I wanted to program on it but im afraid that if I do the trojans will get a hold of the information. I've heard that Trojans can steal allot of information from your computer and hijack other programs such as Windows Live messenger, MS Paint, and computer games, etc. Well if I get a new computer, I am keeping it secure and wont allow anyone to touch it. I may only let my mom or dad touch it but that's about it.  This was my moms computer but she lend it to me.

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#10 07/10/09 20:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Well, it sounds like simply not allowing your brother to use the computer would make it more secure.  The biggest security hole in every OS is the human factor  big_smile


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#11 07/10/09 21:07

love_Oni
Member
From: Da Nang, Vietnam
Registered: 05/10/08

Re: How good are Mac computers?

I'm curious using a Mac too. I wonder how good can it be, but I'm also worried about its price. One more thing, looks like Mac has not come to my country.

Anyway, I'm using Windows and I feel OK with it. Of course I sometime catch viruses because of my carelessness and I had to reinstall Windows but no problem, I got my CD and it took me about 30 minutes to install again. So I don't think using Windows is awful at all.

P.S: There is one thing. I tried to change my avatar but nothing happened. But when I chose to delete my avatar, it executed. I'm sure the avatar I want to change is smaller than 96KB and it's 128x128. Is something wrong?
(Sorry about asking it here, 'cause I don't know where to ask it)

Last edited by love_Oni (07/10/09 21:07)


The Boy Who Knew Too Much tongue

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#12 07/10/09 23:07

Shade
Member
From: OH, USA
Registered: 06/08/08

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Iritscen wrote:

Well, it sounds like simply not allowing your brother to use the computer would make it more secure.  The biggest security hole in every OS is the human factor  big_smile

Yeah the good part is I'm a person who likes computers. I'm wanting to learn more about computers too. So I don't know if Macs are good for getting into.

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#13 07/11/09 00:07

3llense'g
Member
From: Europe, Hungary, Budapest
Registered: 07/05/09

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Iritscen wrote:

Our computers don't ship with a bunch of third-party junk pre-installed and you have to try pretty hard to actually slow it down with your own software.

The whole point of buying PC is buying parts and assemble it "yourself"*. That's why it's cheaper, because you can pick and choose what you need.

Iritscen wrote:

... because the hardware and software are designed by the same company.

Who, Intel? roll

*:you can ask a friend or a pro if necessary.

@Shade: if your only problem is viruses, why do you want to throw away the whole computer? Format the hard drive, or buy a new one. The Evil Gremlins will leave instantly. lol

PS: are the same amount of games made for macs as for Windows-based PCs? Macs are really big in the US, so that would make sense.

Last edited by 3llense'g (07/11/09 00:07)


You can call me 3llen. It's shorter and simpler. wink

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#14 07/11/09 01:07

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

"they just repeat what others have said for years (and some of that information is quite outdated)."

Says the kettle to the pot...

Seriously, it doesn't really matter. A computer is a computer.

Except for games, macs don't have as many as PCs. But things like WINE help.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#15 07/11/09 05:07

love_Oni
Member
From: Da Nang, Vietnam
Registered: 05/10/08

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Does anyone have the solution for this?

love_Oni wrote:

There is one thing. I tried to change my avatar but when I chose to change it in my profile, nothing happened. But when I chose to delete my avatar, it executed. I'm sure the avatar I want to change is smaller than 96KB and it's 128x128. Is something wrong?
(Sorry about asking it here, 'cause I don't know where to ask it)

Edit: OK problem solved.

Last edited by love_Oni (07/11/09 05:07)


The Boy Who Knew Too Much tongue

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#16 07/11/09 06:07

Ether
Member
From: Czech Republic
Registered: 05/26/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

About Macs... I had worked with some of the older ones (Classic, iMac with OS 9) and with a relatively new one (OS X) and the experience was always a bit more comfortable than dealing with Windows. So it's worth a try (Shade, if you have any friends with Macs, you could ask them to let you try it before you buy one). But I haven't seen any Macs lately.

About PCs... Windows XP are reliable, but they're missing some new technologies, Vista shoud be avoided and I'm eagerly waiting for Windows 7. Win7 looks like a good successor to XP, so far.

About both... Neither is fool-proof and if you want to take down a Windows setup or a Mac, you certainly can. The problem is that 99%+ of trojans and viruses are targeted at Windows, so if you aren't careful, you get one before you even get to google.com. Mac users don't have to deal with this, so you *could* say that Macs are more secure. I have seen Windows infested with viruses several days after setting the computer up, just because the user is clicking on everything and ignoring every security warning. It's not in computers or OS's, it's in the users.

(EDIT) About price... I totally agree that PCs *can* be cheaper than Macs, but mostly only if you buy the components and build the computer by yourself (or your friend does that for you). Buying a Mac is similar to buying a PC in a supermarket, but better. And of course if you know what you want to do with the computer, you can choose the right one with the right price.

Last edited by Ether (07/11/09 06:07)

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#17 07/11/09 09:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

3ilence'g wrote:
Iritscen wrote:

Our computers don't ship with a bunch of third-party junk pre-installed and you have to try pretty hard to actually slow it down with your own software.

The whole point of buying PC is buying parts and assemble it "yourself"*. That's why it's cheaper, because you can pick and choose what you need.

Well, most PC users by far do not assemble their own computers.  They buy whatever Dell is offering cheap that week.  Then there's the few who really know what they're doing, who get higher-end parts and make a better computer.  Those people do not represent the usual Windows experience, though.

Iritscen wrote:

... because the hardware and software are designed by the same company.

Who, Intel? roll

Apple designs the overall system, using much of Intel's hardware, yes.  The point is that the OS knows exactly what hardware to expect, so driver issues are much rarer.

PS: are the same amount of games made for macs as for Windows-based PCs? Macs are really big in the US, so that would make sense.

Actually, Macs are not that big here.  They've gotten a good PR boost lately from other products of Apple's that have sold big (iPods, iPhones), but they are still well in the minority.  Because of this, gaming companies almost always overlook us, because it's hard enough to be profitable releasing games for the PC, let alone a much smaller group of computers.  We later get some of those games because other companies port them over (like Feral) -- if we're lucky.  So I would not recommend a Mac to a serious PC gamer.  That's the one group I wouldn't tell to get a Mac.  Most Mac users play games on a console.  Although, again, we can boot into Windows using Boot Camp if we need to use Windows software, it's just a bit of an inconvenience.

Gumby wrote:

Says the kettle to the pot...

Seriously, it doesn't really matter. A computer is a computer.

It's true, some of our old complaints about Windows are no longer as valid.  Both sides can get stuck in the past arguing about issues that are no longer issues.  But I still believe that the Mac OS is a better interface, and I can't help but feel that interfaces do make a difference, that they're not just meaningless decoration.  Besides, Windows was a rip-off of the Mac OS in the very beginning, and rarely does anyone credit MS with innovating in any area of software.  So, just based on that one point, would you rather go with the company that sets trends for others to follow, or with the company that has a history of copying others?

P.S. Good to see you again, Ether!


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#18 07/12/09 18:07

jackoverfull
Member
From: San Mauro Torinese, Italy
Registered: 01/12/09
Website

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Having had Apple Computers at home since before being born, my "side" is easy to guess…:D

Anyway, if you plan to learn more on computers and to develop on them, Mac OS X is surely a very good platform to use.:)

On the price issue, it depends, yes, you can build yourself a cheaper pc with good hardware, or find some good occasions, but often Apple is on par with other brands or even cheaper for what is offered (eg: the macbook pros…).

Regarding the viruses problems you're having on your current pc, as already said, you should simply reformat, it's very, very, very unlikely that you really have to throw it away.

Taking a mac today means, in the worst situation, that you will use it like a windows pc…;)


"To the future, blinkin' an eye to the past!"

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#19 07/12/09 18:07

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

jackoverfull wrote:

Anyway, if you plan to learn more on computers and to develop on them, Mac OS X is surely a very good platform to use.:)

I disagree. The tools avaliable on Windows are much better than on a Mac. (MSVC > XCode)


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#20 07/12/09 18:07

jackoverfull
Member
From: San Mauro Torinese, Italy
Registered: 01/12/09
Website

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Gumby wrote:

I disagree. The tools avaliable on Windows are much better than on a Mac. (MSVC > XCode)

Of course I disagree! lol

I don't know anything about Visual C++, since we're not using them at school (that should say something, anyway), what I know is that on Mac OS X you have full access to every imaginable unix standard, XCode is only an interface to the underlying tools, albeit often a good one. When I have to develop on windows (sigh!:() I often end up fighting with very silly little things, bugs or "features"…:rolleyes:


"To the future, blinkin' an eye to the past!"

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#21 07/12/09 19:07

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Which underlying tools are those?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#22 07/12/09 21:07

Iritscen
Moderator
From: NC, USA
Registered: 10/22/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

All the standard, robust *nix tools are being used behind the scenes -- gcc/g++, ld, etc., since Xcode is not a compiler or linker.  And seriously, "MSVC > Xcode"? lol  Isn't that the same IDE that doesn't have line numbers?  I have heard the same complaints about Visual Studio that I hear about other MS products -- that they are more concerned with following their own standards than industry standards.


Check out the Anniversary Edition Seven at ae.oni2.net!

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#23 07/12/09 22:07

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Do I really need to paste the numerous times we could get something to compile on MSVC but not on Xcode? smile

(Also, you can compile with gcc in Windows)

And what industry standards doesn't MS follow?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#24 07/13/09 02:07

3llense'g
Member
From: Europe, Hungary, Budapest
Registered: 07/05/09

Re: How good are Mac computers?

Gumby wrote:

Do I really need to paste the numerous times we could get something to compile on MSVC but not on Xcode? smile

(Also, you can compile with gcc in Windows)

And what industry standards doesn't MS follow?

Ooh, oooh! I know that! big_smile Anything in javaScript that works in Firefox , Internet Explorer refuses to execute. Excel 2003 works completely differently than Word 2003. (close the window in one, the document closes, do it on the other, every document closes.) They can't even follow their own standards. roll


You can call me 3llen. It's shorter and simpler. wink

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#25 07/13/09 03:07

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: How good are Mac computers?

I'm not going to defend Internet Explorer. IE8 does work better though. However, Firefox works on all platforms. Chrome is the fastest browser out there, and passes ACID3, I think, and is avaliable only on PC. tongue

Excel is functionally a different program than Word.

And none of those are development programs.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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