:$ here's a list of characters that need that fix :$ i hope u don't regret fixing it now when u have the time i'll really appreciate it
*shinibot's humane outfit
*the blackops konoko and carens .. (they use a different trbs than leucha's) if u want to download the package and use the highest lod-dae to make lower ones
when released, hanako will require it on her outfits, so will hydra and sarai much later on :$
but this is great ! finally we get a non buggy hd konoko !
]]>I can help with Hanako and any other model.
]]>Of course you will continue to see buffer overflow. LOD 0 and 1 should be much lower, 4,000 at the most.
]]>its mine... 256*256 per pic...
]]>Okay, just to make sure we're on the same page, you realize that you're not actually changing what LOD Oni is using by changing the links, right? You're just changing which model is in which LOD slot to make it look like a higher LOD is being used.
yes i do realize that, that's why i said the only way i was able to make it use the higher model was to put it in the lod 2 and 3 slot ..
Anyway, I still have to test the files you uploaded, and since they're not in a ready-to-install form, that will have to wait until I have time to put a package together. .
the trbs I included in the dropbox link is oni format (it holds the 5 models\lods) .. and i released the package in the separate thread i linked http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … hp?id=2412 .. u just have to put the trbs from the dropbox link in that package and install (cz the trbs in the package only holds 3 of the models) .. i also included the different models used for different lods in dae format to make them easier to look at ... so it is a ready-to-install form u don't have to make another package.
]]>I can't get it to switch to the blackopslow1 (the first link in xml) typing chr_lod = 0 doesn't switch it
As I mentioned above, it turns out that Oni won't allow the closest character (Konoko) to be rendered at LOD 1. Even using BSL can't force it to happen. The second-nearest character is always forced to at least LOD 2. These were exceptions made for the sake of maintaining a minimum level of graphical quality. The lowest LODs were mainly intended for distant characters.
and the game on its own only generates second or third picture not first except if i force it (it generates it then immediately switches it when konoko moves)
The game also will not auto-adjust LODs for characters who are standing still, which is why Konoko only switches once she starts moving. This was also done for appearance's sake. The mystery is why LOD 5 is not getting used on your computer.
theory: could it be that because the model has high quality textures it automatically switches to lower lod to relieve memory use
No, this is just about performance, not memory use. Oni doesn't seem to care about memory or even how many frames a second it's drawing; it only looks at the total count of polygons in the scene. We can see the numbers in the binary that Oni uses, the table ranges from 1500 if the graphics quality is set all the way to the left, to 4000 at the high end. Again, just for emphasis, this has nothing to do with the object poly/vertex limits. These numbers are being used as guidelines for determining LODs, and a scene might have more than 4000 polys once LOD-picking and rendering has been performed.
I should mention that i was wrong here I didn't try the forcefield in this option because the high model was never given in game so i tried something else, i went back today and re-tested it .. if i force lod 4 getting hd model head, focefield like u said does use lower head .. however the problem is it doesn't use lod 4 for the model on it's own ever.
Told ya Just to be clear, LOD 5 is the highest setting; chr_lod is simply taking the numbers 1-5 in a zero-indexed manner, so chr_lod=4 is asking for LOD 5.
only way for me to make it use the high model and not immediately switch to lower ones (with vanilla head) was to set this
[...]
in this option however it doesn't use the lower forcefield lod (that's what i referred to first time)
Okay, just to make sure we're on the same page, you realize that you're not actually changing what LOD Oni is using by changing the links, right? You're just changing which model is in which LOD slot to make it look like a higher LOD is being used. Ultimately it can only fool Oni so much, since Oni is still getting the actual poly count of each character when computing the scene poly total and ramping down LODs of various characters to bring things into line with its table. This may in fact be the simple reason why you can't keep Konoko at LOD 5 -- the original HD Konoko mod recklessly used the same HD model at all LODs, so we never would have been able to tell visually that this was happening.
Anyway, I still have to test the files you uploaded, and since they're not in a ready-to-install form, that will have to wait until I have time to put a package together. But it's possible that we just haven't tested high-poly characters enough, and this problem has always been present. In the end, I think the answer is still going to be "Don't use so many polys". We'll have to consider Leucha's mod an exception to the rule, rather than an example to imitate.
]]>picture 1 is what i get when i input chr_lod = 4 .. it's the blackopshigh5 model in the xml .. link 5
picture 2 is what i get when i input chr_lod = 3 .. it's the blackopshigh 4 model in xml .. link 4
picture 3 is when i type chr_lod = 2 .. it's the blackopshigh3 model in the xml .. link 3
picture 4 is when i type chr_lod = 1 it's the blackopslow2 in xml .. link 2
I can't get it to switch to the blackopslow1 (the first link in xml) typing chr_lod = 0 doesn't switch it
and the game on its own only generates second or third picture not first except if i force it (it generates it then immediately switches it when konoko moves) ..
these are those 5 lods and the trbs ..
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22609960/lower … konoko.zip
theory: could it be that because the model has high quality textures it automatically switches to lower lod to relieve memory use
I should mention that i was wrong here I didn't try the forcefield in this option because the high model was never given in game so i tried something else, i went back today and re-tested it .. if i force lod 4 getting hd model head, focefield like u said does use lower head .. however the problem is it doesn't use lod 4 for the model on it's own ever.
only way for me to make it use the high model and not immediately switch to lower ones (with vanilla head) was to set this
<Link>konoko_blackopshigh3.dae</Link>
<Link>konoko_blackopshigh4.dae</Link>
<Link>konoko_blackopshigh5.dae</Link>
<Link>konoko_blackopshigh5.dae</Link>
<Link>konoko_blackopshigh5.dae</Link>
setting only 2 of them to blackopshigh5 also made it switch to lower with vanilla head
in this option however it doesn't use the lower forcefield lod (that's what i referred to first time)
should also mention that even when it used lower lod for forcefield and even when using the lod in 4th picture for the model itself .. the buffer overflow problems remained. :s
P.S yes i have slider to highest quality and my video card is NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT which works fine for other newer games.
EDIT : if u want the ONCC and textures I released the package here http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … 853#p41853
but the konoko TRBS isn't the same in the package as the one in the dropbox link
iritscen by points i meant vertices, maybe i used the wrong term, the final head was 1020 plys, i forgot to see how many vertices it became but definetly less than 600 .. Other body parts vertices count ranges between 60 and 200 or so.
My bad, I missed your mentions of points. I guess I sort of remember seeing that now, but when I posted I was bothered by your recent response that only mentioned polys and I thought that you were totally ignoring the vertex part of my post.
i did make and use lower lods, but unlike what u say the were very apparent setting the high lod to lod 5 and lower to 4 and even lower to 3 etc : result it never used lod 5 and model looked ugly. setting 3 out of 5 lods to the high lod was only way to make it use the high model
You *do* have your graphics quality slider turned all the way up in Options, right?
if it doesn't and modern hardware can handle it like alloc said without negative effects then i see no reason why not, if we didnt challenge the engine we would have never gotten the high quality reflective textures
I admit that I haven't tested myself, but I have been hearing that using high-poly models affects Oni's performance. Oni makes poor use of modern graphics cards, so the game's ability to push large numbers of polys is not equivalent to modern games'.
... Don't know how we knew though if it wasn't changed before
I asked Gumby
Edit: Yes, please upload the model; in fact, if you wouldn't mind uploading the version that has unique models for each LOD, it would be appreciated, so we can see if we also have the problem where LOD 5 is not used, etc.
P.S.: Yay, 4000 posts.
]]>1572 triangle, 943 point to 1412 triangle 853 point
I've even managed to decrease the head count to 1035 triangle, 652 point and still causing buffer overflow and disappearing hit impacts
iritscen by points i meant vertices, maybe i used the wrong term, the final head was 1020 plys, i forgot to see how many vertices it became but definetly less than 600 .. Other body parts vertices count ranges between 60 and 200 or so.
gumby as i mentioned in my huge post i did make and use lower lods, but unlike what u say the were very apparent setting the high lod to lod 5 and lower to 4 and even lower to 3 etc : result it never used lod 5 and model looked ugly. setting 3 out of 5 lods to the high lod was only way to make it use the high model .. But then it never used the lower poly model in link 1 and 2 nor was the forcefield reduced in either cases.
i'll release them with the different trbs lods i made maybe someone can take a look at them ? Maybe i'm doing something wrong .. Would any of u be willing to do that ?
We know the game suffers when high-poly characters are used, so why encourage it? Just for the record, the Daodan DLL never changed the limit(s), and doing so can have surprisingly far-ranging side effects on the engine because of the resulting increase in memory usage and other factors, so it may in fact be hard to change.
ok that i did not know, i agree that if it does have such negative effects that it shouldn't be attempted, but if it doesn't and modern hardware can handle it like alloc said without negative effects then i see no reason why not, if we didnt challenge the engine we would have never gotten the high quality reflective textures ... Don't know how we knew though if it wasn't changed before but i can't argue u know much more about the engine and coding than I do
edit : off topic, but it's hard to get a hold of u gumby, would u consider giving me some tips on how to add damage causing particles to the sword ? On the various characters project, No one else knows how, and u said u're gonna give us a little tutorial on that before and i'm working on a hayate update.
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