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#1 02/18/08 22:02

Ghalion
Member
Registered: 02/18/08

Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

I'm trying to modify the damage values of certain moves in oni, and it seems that modifying the melee profile bina file is the way to go. I'm reading about it at
http://ssg.oni2.net/oni_b_me.htm

It lists the 3rd gray byte as the damage amount of an attack, but that bye is listed under the first part of a "package", which are associated with a character class under the notes section. I don't know if that made sense.

Basically the "Damage" value according to that site is listed under the part described as "ninja easy", yet how can you have damage for "ninja easy", but not the actual attack "spinning suplex". Now I understand the parts that say "ninja easy" and "spinning suplex" have absolutely no bearing on how the game actually works (they're just descriptions to make life for people like me easier...supposedly), but for each "part" that has a character class (like ninja easy), there are many parts that have a description of a "move" (like spinning suplex), but only ONE byte (supposedly) that has damage. Either I'm misunderstanding something totally fundamental, or the page is wrong, I'm thinking the former since the peopel who make these sites have a hell of a lot more experience with this stuff than me.

anyway, can someone give me advice as to how I can modify character attacks and whatnot in this game? I can find the damage value bytes in the melee profile bina file but I have absolutely no clue how to associate them with each move, only their character (and then I wont know which of that character's moves I'm altering).

Sorry if this is hard to understand or make sense out of, it's hard describing a situation you don't understand yourself >=P.

Last edited by Ghalion (02/18/08 22:02)

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#2 02/18/08 23:02

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 01/13/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

Ghalion: I think what you're interested in is described here:
http://wiki.oni2.net/TRAM and
http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD:TRAM/raw0x14

By the way, welcome back to the Oni universe!  I look forward to your contributions to the community.

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#3 02/19/08 00:02

Ghalion
Member
Registered: 02/18/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

hmm. looking at the tram files I think you're right. Unfortunately that makes life much harder for me as associating the tram file with the attack in-game is very difficult (but at least this time it appears to add up!). I imagine it would be relatively easy if my oup would work properly but for me it doesn't list the parameters properly for some reason, it's driving me nuts why not.

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#4 02/19/08 18:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

@ Ghalion: when in doubt, it's always a good idea to check not only ssg's database but also that on the wiki.
Loser has been editing the MELE page lately, for example. Here: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD:BINA/OBJC/MELE
You'll see that the "damage amount" sets a global rule for damage taken by the character, dodging-related.

It's quite easy to associate the TRAM name with the move on PC: you do chr_debug_characters=1
There are also neat lookup tables over here:
http://wiki.oni2.net/Gameplay/Combat_moves
http://zdlo.oni2.net/Items/Table_of_damage_dealt.htm

If by OUP parameters you mean the detailed field descriptions appearing bottom right (Struct Viewer), then you need to snatch Struct Defs or write your own.
Unfortunately I haven't been releasing struct defs nearly as much as I ought to. Here are the ones uploaded so far (mind the tarball feature):
http://svn.chrilly.net/listing.php?repn … tructdefs_


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#5 02/20/08 04:02

Ghalion
Member
Registered: 02/18/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

geyser wrote:

@ Ghalion: when in doubt, it's always a good idea to check not only ssg's database but also that on the wiki.
Loser has been editing the MELE page lately, for example. Here: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD:BINA/OBJC/MELE
You'll see that the "damage amount" sets a global rule for damage taken by the character, dodging-related.

It's quite easy to associate the TRAM name with the move on PC: you do chr_debug_characters=1
There are also neat lookup tables over here:
http://wiki.oni2.net/Gameplay/Combat_moves
http://zdlo.oni2.net/Items/Table_of_damage_dealt.htm

If by OUP parameters you mean the detailed field descriptions appearing bottom right (Struct Viewer), then you need to snatch Struct Defs or write your own.
Unfortunately I haven't been releasing struct defs nearly as much as I ought to. Here are the ones uploaded so far (mind the tarball feature):
http://svn.chrilly.net/listing.php?repn … tructdefs_

Yes this post has alot in common with the one in my introduction thread, and it did take me awhile to figure out "tarbal" meant download lol, I was manually opening each txt file, copying them, pasting them in my own new text files to download them, until I decided to give that tarbal button a try >=P.

As a very new member of the oni community the amount of information regarding this game is simply overwhelming, I've already spend 80% of my free time in the last few days checking out websites made by people who know a hell of a lot more than me about this stuff, yet I still feel like I've barely touched the tip of the iceberg. I apologize if it seems like I'm asking alot of questions without doing my research, I'm trying! and thank you for your patience so far, it's really great. (I play world of warcraft on the rest of my spare time, and let me tell you, if someone has to tell you something you don't know, you're a dumbass or a noob, or you fail at life, or whatever, the attitude from people on this forum is totally refreshing).


As for melee profile info, I did find that page later on, and guessed that the damage thingie was indeed related to damage taken, not dealt. VERY confusing since the page I linked above just said "Damage", and so I assumed it meant the amount of damage dealt from a certain move.

Anyway I found out what I want to know in the tram files now (thanks both of you) and with my structdefs folder intact now, editing it should be a breeze.

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#6 02/20/08 07:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

me too now is busy with thatfile, but for now i have no results. i don't understand how to make character use different moves?
not much help from that page in wiki sad

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#7 02/20/08 13:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

"not much help from that page in wiki" You have to figure out how existing profiles work.
My suggestion is to have a close look at a simple and fully documented one: the thugs.
And if you have questions, just ask: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD:BINA/OBJC/MELE/THUG


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#8 02/20/08 16:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

why i can't replace moves simply by copy - paste? for exapmple i replace  TCTF_swat_blackops_1 move runing knee with TCTF_swat_1 super kick...
runing knee is dissapiering from TCTF_swat_blackops_1 meele but don 't use super kick...

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#9 02/20/08 16:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

Please explain more carefully and in more detail what you're trying to do...
Are you sure you're looking at individual moves and not technique headers?
Moves are the bottom of the chain, and you can indeed paste over them.
Techniques, however, hold an offset (last field) to their list of moves.
If you paste a technique over another, that offset will be inaccurate
(that, of course, only if you paste techniques across MELE profiles)
(for a single MELE profile, the big list of moves will stay the same)

Note that moves required by the technique may not be there at all.

Have a look at that "Super Kick" technique for the TCTF_Swat MELE
It uses 3 moves starting at position 36 in the move list. Here they are:
Position::Close Forward(4,12,4); Attack::KF(); Maneuver::Pause(0.25);

If you now look at the available moves for the BLACKOPS_Swat MELE:
there's no Attack::KF() at all in the move list, so you'll have to add it.
Now look at the Running Knee technique BLACKOPS_Swat MELE.
It uses 3 moves starting at position 12 in the move list. Here they are:
Position::Run Forward(10,20,5); Attack::R-K(); Maneuver::Pause(0.05);
What you can do is replace those three with the Super Kick ones above.
And then paste the Super Kick technique header over the Running Knee.
And then edit the offset so that it points to the right 3 moves: 12, not 36.

Bottom line: a technique holds offsets into the MELE's list of moves.
You want to adapt those offsets so that they point to the right place.
And most often you'll have to edit or extend the move list as well.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#10 02/21/08 13:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

Interestin thing is that swat_blackops uses kick_fw attack wery seldom but it is not in it's meele moves list! how can explain that?
i will try to do what you said above but it's very complicated. you don't modify AI mele yourself? if you do maybe attach your modified file?

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#11 02/21/08 15:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

maybe you can post a screenshot of hex edit were you mark those fields who is to be replaced? i mean any of tctf_swat_blackops moves with swat kick_fw.

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#12 02/22/08 04:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

ehere can i see the 4, 12,4 super kick or 10,20,5  runing knee in hex editor? there is no such thing? where is that numbers?

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#13 02/22/08 05:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

in fact i want to replace sweep kick of swat_blackops with kick_fw of swat. maybe you can show me how to do it?

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#14 02/22/08 08:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

I might show you how it's done, later. Meanwhile, please reread my previous post while looking at the wiki page and at a MELE profile of your own, and try to draw the connections. I told you every MELE has a set of techniques and a set of moves. A technique may consist of several moves, which are stored as a continuous list in the set of moves. The technique points to the start of its list of moves, by specifying what move is the first one, and how many there are.
As for the advanced interpretation of moves (Position::Close Forward(4,12,4); etc), they use information from the engine that is also available on the wiki (sorta) here: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD:BINA/OBJC/MELE/MoveList
If you look at the section http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD:BINA/OBJC/MELE#Move_part , you'll see that the move you're looking at can be written as Maneuver::Pause(0.8). Same for other moves. Hope that helps.

Last edited by geyser (02/22/08 08:02)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#15 02/24/08 11:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

i see there is combat.Bina file? what it is doing?
still can't replace moves. post a screenshot where can i see the fields of what i need to replace...

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#16 02/24/08 13:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

Patience, patience... you'll have to wait for a screenshot.
Besides, I don't even remember what exactly you want.

First you said this:
"replace  TCTF_swat_blackops_1 move runing knee with TCTF_swat_1 super kick"
then you said this:
"in fact i want to replace sweep kick of swat_blackops with kick_fw of swat"
So which one is it?

The "combat" BINA defines general combat behaviour.
See: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD_talk:BINA/OBJC/CMBT


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#17 02/25/08 04:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

re runing knee i said just for example. i understad the CJBOCharacter.BINA. it's not to hard but meele is way too harder...
ok i will wait. maiby will figer out on my own some how...

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#18 02/25/08 20:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

i still can't find that offset number... sad

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#19 02/25/08 22:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

I put a mini-tutorial here, hope it helps: http://wiki.oni2.net/OBD_talk:BINA/OBJC/MELE


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#20 02/25/08 22:02

EdT
Moderator
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: 01/13/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

I like that tutorial, thanks!

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#21 02/26/08 06:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

yes it's wery nice! thanks! but can you tell me how to find those moves of each technique? if i want to replace sweep kick with super kick i don't know were sweep kick moves are? how you find them?

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#22 02/26/08 10:02

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

The third "screenshot" of the tutorial already shows you how to find the moves of a specific technique.
You go past the last technique (in this case, "Retreat", which is 88 bytes long starting with "Retreat").
Then the move list starts (in bold). 16 bytes for move 0, 16 bytes for move 1, 16 bytes for move 2...
You just count them until you find moves number 12, 13, and 14. Those are Running Knee's moves.
Why? Because the last 8 bytes of the original Running Knee technique hold the integers 3 and 12.
3 is the number of consecutive moves, and 12 is the number of the first one. So, 12, 13, and 14.

As it turns out, the "Sweep Kick" technique of BLACKOPS_Swat also has 3 consecutive moves.
The last 8 bytes of the original Sweep Kick technique hold the integers 3 and 26. So, 26, 27, 28.
That means you'll have to scroll down from that view that goes from 0x00009920 to 0x00009A6F.
Every move is 16=0x10 bytes long, so every move conveniently spans a whole 16-byte "line".
If move number 12 starts at 0x00009A40, then move number 28 will start at 0x00009B40.
So the three moves you need are at 0x00009B20, 0x00009B30, and 0x00009B40. There.

Note that if you're hex-editing BINACJBOMelee Profile.oni, the offsets will be shifted by 0xC0.

Last edited by geyser (02/27/08 12:02)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#23 02/27/08 12:02

Melodyman
Member
Registered: 01/25/08

Re: Bina Melee profile doesn't make sense to me

ok i got it! now i have super swat_blackops melee! looks wery nice! and moore chalenging when fighting against them!
lot of thanks! maybe if somebody is interested i will modify and attach BINACJBOMelee Profile.oni file later....

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