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#26 01/09/10 03:01

T_W_D
Member
From: Russia, Novosibirsk
Registered: 08/16/09

Re: What is User Karma??

I'm talking about "gem" quality diamonds. The diamonds that are "worth" a lot aren't used for industrial things.

The mineral is the same, mined in the same place. Only a small part of all the diamonds that are mined is used as gems. The difference isn't that big, some low-quality diamonds can be polished to gems if there is a demand.

Speaking of "Avatar", nobody would risk that much and spend so much money to mine a gem. Today, people rarely fight to the death for precious stones, but they constantly do for substance that's not precious at all - petroleum. Energy sources and minerals used in industries are most valuable, because they are common and needed.


My point was that we don't know what the unobtainium was used for, so we can't know why it is worth so much and "balance" it against the lives of millions of sentient (and billions of semi-sentient) creatures.

Fisrt, it could be balanced if they are humans. They are not. Neither our laws, nor our morals can be applied to them.

Second, they were asked to move. Not even to leave, but to move, so that humans could mine this uno-whatever. They refused. Humans didn't simply came and began to shoot them.

Third, no "sentient" and "semi-sentient" aliens' needs can be put higher than human needs. Likewise, you can't value someone's country more than your own. Else it's either a treachery or an idiocy.


Fanfiction should be viewed as a property damage.

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#27 01/09/10 04:01

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: What is User Karma??

T_W_D wrote:

I'm talking about "gem" quality diamonds. The diamonds that are "worth" a lot aren't used for industrial things.

The mineral is the same, mined in the same place. Only a small part of all the diamonds that are mined is used as gems. The difference isn't that big, some low-quality diamonds can be polished to gems if there is a demand.

Speaking of "Avatar", nobody would risk that much and spend so much money to mine a gem. Today, people rarely fight to the death for precious stones, but they constantly do for substance that's not precious at all - petroleum. Energy sources and minerals used in industries are most valuable, because they are common and needed.

Meh. You have a point there I suppose. 20 million a kilo is a lot. They had to be doing something with it.

My point was that we don't know what the unobtainium was used for, so we can't know why it is worth so much and "balance" it against the lives of millions of sentient (and billions of semi-sentient) creatures.

Fisrt, it could be balanced if they are humans. They are not. Neither our laws, nor our morals can be applied to them.

Second, they were asked to move. Not even to leave, but to move, so that humans could mine this uno-whatever. They refused. Humans didn't simply came and began to shoot them.

Third, no "sentient" and "semi-sentient" aliens' needs can be put higher than human needs. Likewise, you can't value someone's country more than your own. Else it's either a treachery or an idiocy.

1. So you are saying that humans have the right to kill anything that is inhuman for any reason. Joy.

2. Ok, so if I want your land\house\stuff, I can go to your house and point a gun at you and tell you to GTFO, this is my house now, and if you don't move I'm allowed to shoot them?

3. Ok, so Hitler was justified in trying to take over Europe because he believed in the "perfect race"? (Screw Godwin's Law, this is the perfect time for it). He killed people (sentient beings, if you will...) who he didn't believe were "human" enough.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#28 01/09/10 04:01

levka1
Member
Registered: 07/08/09

Re: What is User Karma??

great movie about diamonds is Blood Diamond.. someone saw that? like the diamonds there are not all pure and big but they worth million or two $+few thousands lives of citizens there..
The most strange movie i saw about aliens is this new district 9, when in this movie not like the other the aliens are our slaves and we torture them and well complete opposite of World Wars with Tom Cruis.

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#29 01/09/10 04:01

Leus
Member
From: Boone, NC
Registered: 05/28/09
Website

Re: What is User Karma??

So, T_W_D, if super badass aliens decided they needed, I dunno, diamonds how about, and they came to Earth and started killing and enslaving humans to get the diamonds, you'd be sympathetic to their cause?


If we don't change the direction we're going, we'll likely end up where we're headed.

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#30 01/09/10 05:01

Unit 2
Member
Registered: 09/28/08

Re: What is User Karma??

Not exactly, T_W_D's saying that humans must be valued above all else.

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#31 01/09/10 06:01

T_W_D
Member
From: Russia, Novosibirsk
Registered: 08/16/09

Re: What is User Karma??

T_W_D's saying that humans must be valued above all else.

Exactly.


So you are saying that humans have the right to kill anything that is inhuman for any reason.

Not for "any" reason. But killing an inhuman is not the same as killing a human. And the aliens in "Avatar" aren't innocent themselves.


Ok, so if I want your land\house\stuff, I can go to your house and point a gun at you and tell you to GTFO, this is my house now, and if you don't move I'm allowed to shoot them?

The usual argument: "imagine if you were in his shoes". I can't imagine myself in an alien skin, because I'm not an alien, and blue freaky cats don't even exist.

Imagine you're a potato, and suddenly some wicked vegan peels and eats you. Horrible, huh?


Ok, so Hitler was justified in trying to take over Europe because he believed in the "perfect race"?

I'm not German and I'm not Hitler's follower. If I was, I probably would think like that.

There is no such thing as absolute justice. Each society has its own. But a person usually considers himself a part of a certain society, so its moral and law, its own version of justice applies to him too. If some people are enemies to this society, they're his enemies. That's what patriotism bases on.

Speaking about the movie, it's not even about countries or nations. It's about inhuman creatures, and it suggests that inhuman creatures are better than humans.


So, T_W_D, if super badass aliens decided they needed, I dunno, diamonds how about, and they came to Earth and started killing and enslaving humans to get the diamonds, you'd be sympathetic to their cause?

Of course not. Because I'm human, and not alien.

People, who thought some other society is better than their own, allowed black and arab criminals to breed freely in France. If you watched news in 2005, you know the result.

Last edited by T_W_D (01/09/10 06:01)


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#32 01/09/10 07:01

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: What is User Karma??

Potatoes don't have feelings. The aliens very obviously did. No intelligent race is going to be completely "innocent"...but I don't agree with calling an entire race guilty. You can value humans above all else, but that doesn't mean everything else is worthless.

The very fact that you cannot sympathize with another race tells me something about you, and you make it blatantly obvious in your last paragraph. Can you not sympathize with black people because they have a different skin color?

How exactly does the movie suggest inhumans are better than humans? The aliens had several advantages, namely: population, knowledge of the area, defectors from the human side, and a greater will to live (they were protecting their homeland).

...it's 4 am. Iritscen can figure out what to do about your racism. (not towards aliens, but towards blacks\arabs...and possibly germans...).


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#33 01/09/10 07:01

TOCS
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 04/04/07

Re: What is User Karma??

Whoa? We started at karma and ended up by talking about potatoes. tongue

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#34 01/09/10 10:01

Tudorge
Member
From: Romania, Bucharest
Registered: 10/26/09
Website

Re: What is User Karma??

There is a cartoon called Avatar, and my friend once asked, did you know the Avatar movie?
And I said: Well ye' I know, I saw it. Then he said, it's not even in Romania now! Then I said my explanation, then his, then I understood that they STOLE THE NAME! sad
Gumby, twd was just saying about letting bad things step over you. Defending principles like that is fine for me. Anyway, we have a gypsy problem in Romania ever since communism was out, and that's because they have let gypsies in, and now they're flooding countries around. Like they've migrated along with romanians in Spain and Italy.
I don't think this is racism. It's sense. I like african americans, I love the whole Africa, but I sure don't like  mixed up asian-english(englando)-african. Get real people!

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#35 01/09/10 10:01

Tudorge
Member
From: Romania, Bucharest
Registered: 10/26/09
Website

Re: What is User Karma??

Whoa.
QBASIC has found a syntax error here:
Germans are not a race! They're a culture/population. You may say Nationalism, but that's really different. It would be like saying you're country is the best, everything else is bad. It's also a bad thing.

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#36 01/09/10 11:01

T_W_D
Member
From: Russia, Novosibirsk
Registered: 08/16/09

Re: What is User Karma??

The very fact that you cannot sympathize with another race tells me something about you

I can sympathize, but not more than I sympathize my own. Other races are OK, as long as they don't stand on the way of my race. Why the hell should I sympathize blue cats who kill humans? Or blacks who kill whites? Or arabs who kill Russians?


How exactly does the movie suggest inhumans are better than humans?

Because the protagonist chooses their side, because they win, because they are shown as innocent victims, and humans - as evil murderers.


Iritscen can figure out what to do about your racism.

So when you don't like another race killing your own, it's racism. Oh.

And I study German, I like Teutonic Knights, but I sure must hate Germany, because I have no sympathy towards Hitler. That's new O.O

Last edited by T_W_D (01/09/10 12:01)


Fanfiction should be viewed as a property damage.

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#37 01/09/10 12:01

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: What is User Karma??

Sorry, scratch the German part. Was tired. What's this about 2005 and France? And what could they have done to stop it?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#38 01/09/10 13:01

T_W_D
Member
From: Russia, Novosibirsk
Registered: 08/16/09

Re: What is User Karma??


Fanfiction should be viewed as a property damage.

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#39 01/09/10 13:01

Lithium
Member
From: Colorado
Registered: 10/17/08

Re: What is User Karma??

TOCS wrote:

Whoa? We started at karma and ended up by talking about potatoes. tongue

yea thats the typical human mind for you. It mostly happens in Anything but Oni, the human mind cant just keep talking about the same thing
ex: Wii is better than Ps3
why?
classic games...like contra
oh yea good old konami code
lol yea....i hated the last level, it was too easy
meh i think the worst levels were like the fps persperctive
...speaking of fps...have u tried CoD:MW2?
nah...speaking of war, have u seen saving private ryan?
and so on....
thats basically a short summary of a conversation


Oni IRC | Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!

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#40 01/09/10 22:01

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: What is User Karma??

There is a common perception, especially among foreigners and descendants of the recent waves of immigration[18][19][20], that French society has long made a practice of hiding, or at least whitewashing, its numerous signs and symptoms of racism[21][22][23], xenophobia and classism, by all accounts at least equal in intensity to those in other European countries[24]. Racial and social discrimination against people with "typically" African phenotypes or Arabic and/or African-sounding names has been cited as a major cause of unhappiness in the areas affected. According to the BBC, "Those who live there say that when they go for a job, as soon as they give their name as "Mamadou" and say they live in Clichy-sous-Bois, they are immediately told that the vacancy has been taken." The nonprofit organization SOS Racisme, associated with the French Socialist Party (PS), said that after they sent identical curriculum vitae (CVs) to French companies with European- and African or Muslim-sounding names attached, they found CVs with African or Muslim sounding names were systematically discarded. In addition, they have claimed widespread use of markings indicating ethnicity in employers' databases and that discrimination is more widespread for those with college degrees than for those without.[25][26]

Sounds like the French brought it upon themselves.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#41 01/10/10 00:01

T_W_D
Member
From: Russia, Novosibirsk
Registered: 08/16/09

Re: What is User Karma??

Note that it begins with "There is a common perception".

Sounds like the French brought it upon themselves.

They did, by allowing immigrants to invade their country.

Do you seriously think that muslims and blacks able and ready to burn cars and attack schools are poor innocent victims of racism and xenophobia? I've got a friend in Israel, and I've heard a lot about the ethnic minorities and illegal immigrants.


Fanfiction should be viewed as a property damage.

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#42 01/10/10 00:01

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: What is User Karma??

Anyone can burn cars and attack schools. White people, asians, blacks, arabs, russians, germans, latin americans, *insert more races\countries here*.

I live in a country made of immigrants, so I don't quite get the viewpoint of "let nobody in". But saying you did let some people in, you would base it off of race?


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#43 01/10/10 00:01

TomeOne
Administrator
Registered: 01/07/07
Website

Re: What is User Karma??

T_W_D wrote:

Note that it begins with "There is a common perception".

Sounds like the French brought it upon themselves.

They did, by allowing immigrants to invade their country.

What the fuck?


Harry | oni.bungie.org

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#44 01/10/10 01:01

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: What is User Karma??

Harry wrote:
T_W_D wrote:

Note that it begins with "There is a common perception".

Sounds like the French brought it upon themselves.

They did, by allowing immigrants to invade their country.

What the fuck?

That's what I was thinking. sad


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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#45 01/10/10 02:01

levka1
Member
Registered: 07/08/09

Re: What is User Karma??

hey i am from Israel myself and the immigrants here are asian or arab, in our tv shows we always laugh at arab being building workers and about asians that they cost less then 1/4 Israeli worker, as they are all immigrants. Did someone heard/saw Erretz Nederet, translated like Great Country? Laugh at ourselves,our politicians etc.
I dont want to sound racist but believe me the the number of black people in jail compared to white people And population is pretty catastrophic. Also here in Israel you will rare find BLACK people in really good school, and even in my "military school" i have seen only about 3 4 black students, they are just stayin in their district "gettho", complainin, stealin, beatin up people..
I mean i love Mobb Deep and rep music too, but i think when they come from Africa to here, kiss the holy land and then end up living 5 people in 2 rooms apartment, it end up not too good for teenagers and for kids that are lookin at them.
If someone saw American History X there is a line :If you looks at the statistics 1/3 male are in jail , thats pretty bad percent  .. of course there are good people and there are less people, who the hell i am to decide, but still i think that comin from poor background there arent many people who can come up Doctors or lawyer when there parents were workin as cleaners at night.. statistics show us all, thats not racism thats fact, the same thing about the number of Muslims in whole Europe i mean there are more Muslims in each country that Christians..

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#46 01/10/10 02:01

Gumby
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 08/30/07

Re: What is User Karma??

You know what, I'm just going to lock this topic, pending decision by Harry to unlock it. If anyone disagrees with the lock, feel free to PM me.


Iritscen: roll
Iritscen: it's amazing this program even works
Gumby: i know
Iritscen: and that statement applies to my code, not just yours

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