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#26 21/10/12 18:41

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Well, links to videos do not a wiki category make.  I would rather someone just make a playlist on Youtube.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#27 21/10/12 18:47

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

why not ?
if someone makes a playlist then it's on his account not everyone will see it unless they go to that person's account.


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#28 21/10/12 21:54

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Not true, playlists are returned as search results.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#29 22/10/12 1:53

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

So 1 uncategorized playlist with dozens of videos that hopefully someone would stumble upon if they go and search for Oni on youtube. what's the harm in having 1 wiki page with categories : Videos of AE .. Videos of Mods ... Videos of tutorials .. Like the images one but for videos .. etc .. it'll be organized and neat and It won't use up wiki space.  I mean we can expand our view a little, right now the wiki is full of pages and pages of personal interpretations and theories by few people ..what's the harm in also using it to archeive something that's interesting and useful to many users.
Just cause it wasn't done before doesn't mean it's a bad idea ...

Last edited by Samer (22/10/12 5:07)


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#30 22/10/12 3:57

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

After discussing it with Alloc, he suggested having 1 page ''Videos'' with sections in it, instead of several categories .. I think that's a good idea, won't make a mess of pages and still document the vids for ppl visiting the wiki smile and also can include videos not hosted on youtube.

Last edited by Samer (22/10/12 4:06)


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#31 22/10/12 6:43

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Well, that was my fallback suggestion if you were for some reason deadset against the superior idea of a Youtube playlist -- to not make a bunch of wiki pages and categories, just toss all the links onto one page.  It's your call.


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#32 22/10/12 6:57

paradox-01
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Our new editor here tasted wiki blood. ^_^

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#33 22/10/12 7:58

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Yes, and I think he likes it!


byproducts are fine, but where's the beef?

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#34 22/10/12 10:21

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Today editing oni wiki .. Tomorrow i conquer the world **evil laugh MWAHAAA**

No seriously i'm just trying to contribute and improve\update some stuff and make things more appealing for a wider fanbase.

I admit I do have a ''neat freak, organizing, documenting'' obsession trait.
No it's not driving me crazy that china mod is missing from the offical mod list tongue not at all.

The idea of youtube playlist is ok too, but it will remain uncategorized .. (mod vids, tutorials, bug vids, all will be after each other) oppsed to be classified in sections and one has to go to youtube and search for it, hopefully it will be in the top results, and who knows if youtube 1 day changes playlists like it did with groups, opposed to having them safely documented in the wiki.

Last edited by Samer (22/10/12 10:32)


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#35 22/10/12 13:07

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Well, it's true, the wiki is a lot more reliable than YouTube.  The people running YouTube seem to have their own unique philosophy on how to introduce changes to a web site used by millions of people.

And working on the wiki is always good.  I have that obsessive organizing trait too, although I think categorizing the wiki and documenting the 30-page Oni 2 thread got that urge out of my system for a while :-)


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#36 22/10/12 21:54

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

http://wiki.oni2.net/Videos what i got so far. God that took some time :\ what did i get myself into tongue
some vids under mod concept demos may need to go under Anniversary Edition or under released mod previews .. i don't know

Last edited by Samer (22/10/12 21:59)


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#37 22/10/12 22:25

Lithium
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Hm this is actually a neat page for newbies that may be interested. I wouldn't have cared for this forum much if it hadn't been for those OTA videos I saw in 08.

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#38 23/10/12 1:23

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Thanks Lithium smile .. Btw for some of ur vids i didn't know if i should say by oxe or lithium as u have 2 channels now, i said by oxe for the ones on the oxe channel.
For other users i used their forum name rather than their youtube account name.  gumby instead of kyle .. Tokenoftime instead of bygoner for example.

The walkthrough and bugs section needs more entries but i don't think fixed bugs need to  be included anymore. And for walkthroughs i didn't find ones by any user i know, so i don't want to have to watch them all hmm so if anyone knows a preferred user/source, tell me.

My favorite is fun fan made vids section i lost most time rewatching those ones tongue

Last edited by Samer (23/10/12 1:25)


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#39 23/10/12 7:53

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

There's a video that shows how to jump to the sniper tower using sbg .. Anyone has a link to it ?


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#40 23/10/12 8:39

paradox-01
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Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

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#41 23/10/12 10:38

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Thanks paradox, I added it smile. If there are any more videos you think should be included, please add them. (when you have the time)

Last edited by Samer (23/10/12 10:39)


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#42 23/10/12 16:02

Lithium
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

W/e is easier for you to remember, my 2nd account is me starting over.. there's a stupid reason for me making that oxe161 name.. maybe I'll explain that whole ordeal in the future

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#43 31/10/12 17:52

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

This is a question to paradox : you have this page : http://wiki.oni2.net/w/index.php?title= … #_chenille

it covers pretty much everything about xml, I personally found it the most comprehensible and useful tutorial on the wiki, kept coming back to it while modding. however the title doesn't reflect what it is : title : user paradox/wip pages . Therefore, i think it's easy to ignore it .. As it's also not categorized under modding tutorials ( i added a category to it today, but still the title doesn't reflect what it is) do u think you can move it or rename it to something clearer variousl XML modding for example and have it show under modding tutorials .. The current other pages on basic xml modding and others are not as expanded as this one and they have a lot of the hex stuff which is confusing, many times i didn't understand what i read in them but couldn't find ur page easily. (i'm not sure it shows up in search results)

P.s also what's the ''review'' stuff at the beginning of the page is that supposed to be there ?

Last edited by Samer (31/10/12 17:56)


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#44 31/10/12 20:55

paradox-01
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

"however the title doesn't reflect what it is"

"User:Paradox-01/for WIP pages" =  My work space for pages that are "Work In Progress", or now just a better place for notes. The WIP is for everything and hence can change steadily and shouldn't be categorized.

The OBD pages contain hex documentations.
The OBD_talk pages contain xml documentations.
Why is that so hard to remember? You would simply search for the acronym and then go to the talk page.

But okay. I will make a big xml page that will show up in the standard search. The content in the wip page's history is more or less outdated and I want to keep my current notes...

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#45 31/10/12 22:57

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

paradox-01 wrote:

The OBD pages contain hex documentations.
The OBD_talk pages contain xml documentations.
Why is that so hard to remember?

probably because today is the first and only time you said it ? And it's hard to keep track of how every user prefers to orgainze his work ...

All I'm saying is ur work is great, and easy to understand, it has pictures and well written, therefore it should be front and center for new modders to easily find,and understand, why on earth is the hex stuff is still the main pages when we don't use it anymore and have onisplit .. I'm guessing laziness to change them or they're sacred.

The wiki should be the easiest rescource for modders. Talk pages should be for talks between modders, that page doesn't seem like it's a talk page or discussion, but a very good tutorial that deserves exposure as much as any other tutorials taking the main pages.

But okay. I will make a big xml page that will show up in the standard search.

Don't do it on my account, if you feel like you're doing me a favor, then don't, i know most of the stuff that's on it by now , and I have it bookmarked, this was a suggestion to improve the wiki for new modders, that's the point of the wiki I presume.

Tc


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#46 1/11/12 5:37

paradox-01
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

A page that could be called "gathered xml tutorials and documentations". (Preview, doesn't include StNA.)
Then tell me what you think.
Make separate pages?

Last edited by paradox-01 (1/11/12 5:40)

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#47 1/11/12 7:08

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Paradox, I will kill you if you upload that page to the wiki ^_^

Samer, please mind your manners.  Paradox's method of organization has been consistent and clear from the beginning.  Don't accuse others of laziness or providing no explanation to cover over your own lack of understanding.  The reason the pages themselves are devoted to only the hex information is because that is the crux of the wiki, its main reason for existing.  It's that information which allowed fans like Neo to write the tools like OniSplit that allow you to do your modding work.

Compared to documenting the game data, discussing the editing of XML (which is generated by a specific tool and therefore not as canonical as the basic hex information, which does not change) is a secondary process.  I was never totally sold on the idea of putting the XML information on the talk pages, but I didn't have any better ideas and have been too busy to do anything to help paradox with the documentation, so I've allowed him to just do his work in a way that made sense to him.

If it helps, I can look into making the talk pages indexed by the search engine.


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#48 1/11/12 7:52

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Paradox, I will kill you if you upload that page to the wiki ^_^

Iritscen .. The wiki should hold info for modders .. those who are actively modding and for new modders .. what are new modders and active modders using ? XML or Hex ? which came first is not the issue. Paradox's tutorial is full, helpful and informative and should appear under modding tutorials .. It doesn't hurt to update stuff every once and a while ...
is the wiki a resource for modders ? or is a facebook\twitter account for discussion ?  If it's a resource for modders then the most recent and useful info should be clearly and readily available ... give one good reason why the hex tutorials should appear under modding tutorials under main page and have their own separate pages while paradox's shouldn't ? .. You're not sold on them being in the talk pages then allow them to get a separate page. i'm sure some space can be spared and the servers won't break. You said you let paradox document his stuff the way he feels comfortable yet now when he's saying he'll make a page for it, you're not allowing it ... Would it have been better if someone else besides me suggested it ?
and to be clear I wasn't accusing paradox of laziness, if anything, he, Edt and Neo are the most hard workers here yet least credited and kept behind the scenes ... he's not the only one who maintains the wiki .. therefore, either please update the wiki or allow others (like paradox and I) to. It's not written in stone .. things can be updated and changed to be made easier and made more useful. In other words not everything written by gesyer\Gumby whether outdated or not or personal interpretation or not has to be front and center while others are hidden deep .. equality would be nice.

Compared to documenting the game data, discussing the editing of XML (which is generated by a specific tool and therefore not as canonical as the basic hex information, which does not change) is a secondary process.

things change, now XML is the basis of all\most new mods true or not ? and Neo put a lot of effort into it to make modding for us easier. All of current modders and new modders will use Onisplit. Not saying remove the hex stuff (keep it for advanced users who might do something new with it), saying also treat the XML tutorials equally. Whenever new software or methods are updated, documentation should be to ... do you find documentation for windows98 or windows 8 on their site ?
In that logic AE shouldn't be documented on the wiki because it is a mod, a collection of selected (favorite) mods by a single user (self admitedly) , and also based on onsiplit and xml modification, yet it is, but other mods are not allowed to.

my lack of understanding isn't an issue trust me I understand perfectly how things go here smile whatever I say is for the sake of this game, the sake of the community and to keep things active and updated for new modders and users, no one should take it personally or feel I'm challenging their authority.

In the end I can say I don't care leave it as it is smile What do I personally gain or lose ? I'm not getting paid if my suggestion is taken or not ... But I won't because I still care about this game. 
So evaluate the suggestion fairly please, and I'd appreciate it if not every single time I make a suggestion it's seen as I'm challenging you or Gumby or geyser or like I'm trying to take something from you and you just have to oppose me to show me who's boss (including my AE suggestions (to which Gumby simply replied yes he's selfish and has an unjustified monopoly over the AE and that's the way it is, just cause he made the AE installer, Neo made onisplit that allowed all the mods i don't see him calling the shots), wiki pages suggestion (the videos and now this) and BGI suggestions (to which ironically everything that was said disrespectfully was overlooked because it was said by the ''iron fist ruler'', yet now I should ''mind my manners'' .. So yeah I fully ''understand'' how things go here.

Last edited by Samer (1/11/12 9:34)


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#49 1/11/12 10:08

Iritscen
Moderator

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

Samer wrote:

Paradox, I will kill you if you upload that page to the wiki ^_^

Iritscen .. The wiki should hold info for modders .. those who are actively modding and for new modders .. what are new modders and active modders using ? XML or Hex ? which came first is not the issue. Paradox's tutorial is full, helpful and informative and should appear under modding tutorials .. It doesn't hurt to update stuff every once and a while ...

That page was over 300KB, which is unacceptable.  Paradox might already have known that and was just showing you the size of it to make a point, but I felt that I needed to make that point clear, as an administrator of the wiki.  Large pages are prohibitive for editing and counter-indicated by the MediaWiki developers.  And massive, ill-advised edits like yours of yesterday add unnecessarily to the size of the edit history in the wiki database.  Also, do not change subpages of other users' pages without their permission.  This is not open to discussion and I have the ability to suspend your wiki account if you don't accept the above statements.

If it's a resource for modders then the most recent and useful info should be clearly and readily available ... give one good reason why the hex tutorials should appear under modding tutorials under main page and have their own separate pages while paradox's shouldn't ?

When you say "hex tutorials", are you referring to articles that reference hex editing?  I wasn't referring to those in any way.  I was simply defending the information about bit fields being where it is (the 4cc articles like "ONCC" and "TRAM").  Those are not tutorials.

and to be clear I wasn't accusing paradox of laziness...

Then don't say the word "laziness".  You think you know everything about the community, but trust me, you have no how idea how many hours have gone into the wiki.  Almost no one on the forum does.  That's not to say suggestions and improvements can't be made, it's to say that you should mind your choice of words.  You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, remember?

...if anything, he, Edt and Neo are the most hard workers here yet least credited and kept behind the scenes

Nobody's "kept" behind the scenes.  They don't get the thanks they deserve, true, but nobody's "keeping" anyone anywhere.  Neo declines to join the forum, and Paradox et al. are not ones to trumpet their own hard work.  But yes, they definitely deserve thanks from the community (unfortunately, some of them are not around anymore to be thanked).

Not saying remove the hex stuff (keep it for advanced users who might do something new with it), saying also treat the XML tutorials equally.

I did in fact ask Paradox if we could put those articles in the main namespace (or somewhere other than OBD:Talk), although I can't find that discussion on the wiki now.  I believe his reasoning was that they were easiest to find if we placed them on each data type's talk page.  I would be open to other ideas, though, like putting them on pages which are linked to by a header template that we place on each four-cc article.  That would make them easily discoverable to new users.  What I can't understand is why you, as a seasoned user who knows where the articles are, is making a mountain out of a molehill over this.

In that logic AE shouldn't be documented on the wiki because it is a mod

No it isn't.

a collection of selected (favorite) mods by a single user (self admitedly)

No it isn't.

other mods are not allowed to.

They are if they're under construction and need group discussion.  This policy was not always followed, but I believe it does hold true for most of what is documented on the wiki, such as AE:BGI.  Any exceptions should be treated as accidental, not hypocritical.

no one should take it personally or feel I'm challenging their authority.

You're challenging no one's authority.  You are, however, taking "it" personally.

So evaluate the suggestion fairly please, and I'd appreciate it if not every single time I make a suggestion it's seen as I'm challenging you or Gumby or geyser or like I'm trying to take something from you and you just have to oppose me to show me who's boss (including my AE suggestions (to which Gumby simply replied yes he's selfish and has an unjustified monopoly over the AE and that's the way it is, just cause he made the AE installer, Neo made onisplit that allowed all the mods i don't see him calling the shots), wiki pages suggestion (the videos and now this) and BGI suggestions (to which ironically everything that was said disrespectfully was overlooked because it was said by the ''iron fist ruler'', yet now I should ''mind my manners'' .. So yeah I fully ''understand'' how things go here.

I'm really tired of your persecution complex, Samer.  Knock it off.  And Gumby was being overly self-deprecating, as the choice of mods in the AE was a process started by geyser, then continued by Gumby and myself.


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#50 1/11/12 10:44

Samer
Member

Re: My Wiki Page ^_^ and a question.

The page is big fine, paradox did say : make it individual pages, to which you didn't reply.

gumby was being over self depricating but that doesn't make it any less true. He said them himself.   if only you and gumby decide what goes into it then don't call it anniversary edition call it Iritscen's and Gumby's favorite mods and don't ask for members to join an ''AE team'' when they basically have no authority what so ever.
Take a look at the mod depot page : first news up there is the anniversary edition and then HD training room.
Ed made a new functional level for the first time, I retextured every character in the game .. Why isn't that heighlighted ? That's a thanks and appreciation.

You know what Iritscen from now on I'll mind my own business. i'll make my mods and that's it. Keep the wiki as is and let the AE be released in 2020 .

You spoke of Oni's dark future, as long as 2 or 3 people who have become too busy for the game have a monopoly over AE and the wiki and don't allow anyone else to step in their shoes, the future is going to be dark indeed and we're gonna lose more and more modders and members than we already have.

Yup we got it, you can disable my wiki account and you can ban me .. That's encouraging .. Keep that up, I'm sure that will bring new modders and editors and contributions.


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