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#1 2/10/12 1:57

Samer
Member

BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

BGI ninjabot .. with his younger brother tongue
Oni%25202012-10-02%252009-51-09-49_cr.jpg

ltemplar .. Depends how i'm making it, and the additions it'll have (custom trac, several outfits etc ..)
before powercuts for the characters i made like casey, shinibot, hayate .. 1 outfit took me a day or 2 depending how elaborate it is .. Trbs is the annoying part for me, usually for joints, polygon count and rotations .. textures take much less time and i enjoy them more.
however with the power cuts now it would take me a week, like hanako did ..
For rigging already made models So far only attempted it with rayman and this ninjabot both were easy, took about 6 hrs in total, but spread on several days due to powercuts .. For this bot the thing that took most time was bicep wrist juncture. The other parts were easy to separate and pretty much didn't change the uv maps except for head and neck which i had to merge, as the helmet and what's under it were separate. But less than making casey or shinibot for sure ..
i want an oni2net account tongue where did u send the request ltemplar i didn't see a request link.

for the moves for this bot .. Originally meant to give him all of ninjas trac, but some moves look ugly on his skeleton. So i'll mix and match moves from several characters.

Last edited by Samer (3/10/12 20:23)


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#2 2/10/12 2:35

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

A week?..Man that really suck..1-2 days..That's exactly what I'm talking about. Because I'm busy person it usually take me 1 day to finish model 1 day for UVW 1 day for texturing..all make from scratch..When I had a lot o free time back in days when started working on NEP and dark earth( another unfinished mod) it take me only 4 days to do(UVW maps , textures, models etc) entire UCS  units(20 models..from simple silver one to panther mk2). Off course all maps where baked...but still I think making something from scratch is much easer than importing something and then fitting to your needs(depending from the model).But it's my opinion.

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 2:52)

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#3 2/10/12 2:48

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Thing is when i first started modding, first thing i learnt was mixing and matching different oni character body parts (thx to Ed) shinibot android outfit for example, i then took that ot the next level to make more unique stuff, (casey and hayate using caren and fury face) .. For new outside of oni models, i only used parts from them .. A katana, a skirt, a hair style etc ..
Complete already made models such as this bot is something i'll only do if the mesh is easy .. which was the case here, most body parts were already separated in oni anatomy.
And thing is I don't have the time to learn to make new stuff and become good at it enough to use it, i get power for very few hrs, barely have time to finish what i already know .. But it's something of course i'd like to learn on the long run maybe after i finish my characters project as to improve them.
Anyway do u have any suggestions for the bgi bot moves ? smile

edit : I must add about the mad scientist idea it would be more fitting for the bgi-shocker .. Than the hammer. Read the original concept of him.

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 3:31)


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#4 2/10/12 3:40

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

I see..

Well that Robot turned quite nice..i mus say.

What attacks?
Hmm..
This green part on the chest look like it can emit some kind of beam..-atack one
Fast and agile..don't know.. It more resemble me big mecha more like thous in final fantasy games..but(without thous shoulders). So i can't think about it like ninja bot..
Something more like advanced guardian..with weapons?
Maybe integrated sword/claws with him..Don't really know now.

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 3:40)

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#5 2/10/12 8:54

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

buffer overflow problem is pissing me off :\ ! the bot is only 4050 polygon in total .. the max polygon count is for the head is 764 polygon - 468 points .. all other body parts range between 64 polygon and 400 .. yet it's causing buffer overflow :@


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#6 2/10/12 8:57

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Samer send me this bot. I will try to reduce this poly cunt(Dae will be perfect..you can even kept textures if you wish)or see if he doesn't have any other added/hidden parts...

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 8:58)

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#7 2/10/12 9:51

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

ltemplar this is the dae : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22609960/TRBSbgi_ninjabot.dae
the problem is i get these blue edges and upon polygon reduction they leave gaps. i tried to get rid of them using filter polygons and filter edges and weld boundary points\edges, (or maybe i'm not using them properly) but they don't get rid of all of them .. only way is to individually weld the edges 1 at a time using the weld point tool which is time consuming. If I learn how to get rid of them quickly, polygon reduction will become much easier for me.

edit : I also asked Ed to reduce it

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 10:04)


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#8 2/10/12 10:07

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

I can't download it..what You putted is this "https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22609960/TRBSbgi_ninjabot.dae" and that's in text format.Is this supposed to be like that?

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#9 2/10/12 10:11

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Mm it's opening instead of downloading, right click on the link and select save link as then save it to ur computer, don't click it.

edit : Ed just sent me a lower poly version, but i didn't / can't test it yet. But still if u can take a look at the dae and tell me how to get rid of the blue edges would be nice.

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 10:14)


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#10 2/10/12 10:35

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Oh ..man .. this model have huge face overflow..No wonder that you have this error in game...The Normal(responsible how light is presented on surface) groups are completely seated wrong...In some places you don't have filed polygons(1 sided polygon are not a good thing- especially when visible). This will require from me to fill badly flipped polygons ..recreate from scratch smoothing groups and normals..weld/merge vertex in many places....Increasing entire polygon cunt by minimum 1000 or 2000 additional ploys..etc.This model is from the game where 2 sided poligons are possible..Oni can only read as 2 sided polygons some environment parts like fence or glass...no chars.
Even more errors this model have...man mess is chasing another mess...
2 days if no more is required to bring him to usable shape...
Edit1. Ok i repaired for now half of the head(but i see more bad shapes..probably i will UVW map more polygons)
EDIT2. Repaired all arms wrists and hand parts(but still New UVW is needed)..moving to chest..

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 12:18)

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#11 2/10/12 13:48

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Ltemplar stop hmm that's not necessary ... Many models use flipped polygons, some models outside of the game have 1 sided  polygons only way to fix that is to duplicate and invert the polygons so they get texture from both sides .. I did that myself on the shoulders and head (helmet part), there are no other needed places noticeable in game.. Many other characters have that, Sarai and hanako even jester for example ... There's absolutely nothing wrong with the arms and chest and hands .. Uv maps are correct with the textures if u are changing them i won't be able to use his textures. I only asked u to tell me how to remove the blue edges not rebuild entire model. Adding a lower lod will solve the issue ..you are exaggerating with the mess thing really.
he is very usable as is. Please don't change him more than this.
however are u saying having double sided poygons is what causes the buffer overflow ? or having single sided polygons is what causes it ?If so can we have 2 normals for 1 polygon.
and once u duplicate and invert polygons they'll work u don't need to manually add them. However the edges or points i'm guessing become doubled and need to be welded together.
when making Sarai first i got strands of hair showing textures from 1 side only, to fix that others told me Oni needs 2 sided polygons, not only for environment and that's how it was fixed.

searching the net i found this http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/ind … 29235.html as a way to remove the hard/blue edges .. Still have to try it.

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 14:26)


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#12 2/10/12 14:42

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

You duplicated thous polygons?..thats completely wrong way.You simply don't leave enough space(there are 0 to 0 that's the case of that blue edges(one polygon is overflow by another) it take me now 5 hours to remove that mess(I will not change 1 sided with are not wisible polygons..only thous overflowed) And don't worry..I will not destroy that uvw(both sides have the same coordinates)-only do it right- note for the future- If you are doing flipping polygons- you need to leave some space between them that's all.

BTW.I almost finished..so your request ..to stop is a lite bit to late tongue

EDIT1..Finish..I'm now packing..rest will be up to you

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 15:31)

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#13 2/10/12 14:52

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

If u told me and didn't start to fix it immediately,  i would have given u the original model without the duplicated polygons tongue sorry for the trouble wish i read ur post earlier, anywayhow do u leave space between them ? I select the polygons then use the duplicate polygon tool then immediately use the invert polygon tool, what's the better way ?

what if i do those same steps but after i invert the duplicated polygons, while they're still selected i trnaslate them a little would that be enough ?

so u believe this is what  causes the buffer overflow ? Rather than polgon count. If so then we've finally solved the buffer overflow mystery.
p.s i get sometimes the blue edges without doing that at all, simply converting any trbs from the game to dae so how come ?

Anyway thanks of course but i wish i read ur post earlier, i would have saved u the unnecessary trouble, as i still have the mesh without duplication. sad
i'll wait for ur dae then, but my fear is that the rotations will get messed up like what happens always when u export ur dae and then it will need more time for me to fix the rotations then it would for me to duplicate the polygons and leave space this time.

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 15:02)


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#14 2/10/12 15:40

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Her is the link to fixed bot.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3mb8vapfzyrgj7n

But still You must correct This mess(yo now how may DAE is looking- note take thous green crosses coordinates..and then copy them to parts centers)

The onisplit  like to cut polygons and create double vertexes when exported..you must merge thous vertex by hand..

PS. Iritscen I e-mailed you by this site.Tel me If you get it.
Never mind it was in Spam.
Ok I logged..

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 15:51)

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#15 2/10/12 16:13

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

ltemplar i wish we knew why u're dae gets this messed up it will make more time to fix it maybe than actually doing the polygon thing.

Samer wrote:

how do u leave space between them ? I select the polygons then use the duplicate polygon tool then immediately use the invert polygon tool, what's the better way ?

what if i do those same steps but after i invert the duplicated polygons, while they're still selected i trnaslate them a little would that be enough ?

hoping you'd reply to this.

btw the model u sent has many quads.

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 16:14)


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#16 2/10/12 16:26

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Is that problem for you?..When exported You simply need to check if (triangulate before export) is active and vala..BTW qads are read by oni engine..only thous with more than four sides aren't.

"how do u leave space between them ? I select the polygons then use the duplicate polygon tool then immediately use the invert polygon tool, what's the better way ?" simply grab thous polygons and move them a lite then merge the unwanted vertexes..thats all

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 16:29)

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#17 2/10/12 16:31

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

for characters quads are not allowed, onisplit won't convert the mesh for characters if it has quads, even if it does in game it will look weird with polygons flickering, but i'll triangulate them, it's not a problem but were bringin it to your attention.

how do u merge the unwanted vertices .. manually each at a time or is there an easy option, that's the part where i struggle.


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#18 2/10/12 16:48

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

All manually(for specific) or automatically setting only range in which vertex should be taken in consideration when merged with another.

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 16:53)

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#19 2/10/12 16:51

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

which tool does them automatically ?


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#20 2/10/12 16:55

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

When merging them..you have to define the range...set it low..then only the closest vertexes will be merged together.
the standard one(check options there).

Last edited by ltemplar (2/10/12 16:56)

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#21 2/10/12 17:01

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

i don't know what's the tool to automatically merge vertices ..
so basically now my mesh has blue edges and causes buffer overflow i don't know how to solve the blue edges
urs needs to readjust all rotations and will take more time than the whole thing
so basically i've got nothing :\
I'll start form scratch

edit what if u send urs as scene then Ed can convert it to dae for me.

meanwhile i'll try to use only the head and shoulders from urs.

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 17:08)


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#22 2/10/12 17:13

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Ok but by tomorrow..

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#23 2/10/12 17:20

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

don't u still have it ? if u send it now i'll be able to finish and release. soon .. i tried to only use the shoulders and heads from urs but the mesh is changed it's not same shape even

Last edited by Samer (2/10/12 17:22)


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#24 2/10/12 17:23

EdT
Moderator

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

Samer, are you having problems with the TRBS I sent you?

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#25 2/10/12 17:28

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Ninbot- XSI modeling, exporting and Buffer overflow issues.

yes Ed it also had the blue edges, the daes names of all parts had strange numbers in front of them and scaling is wrong, and the trbs still had buffer overflow.
i'm trying now to use the 'fixed' shoulders from ltemplar's dae but, it seemed he changed the shape, i'm trying to position them but they're not superimposing on top of each other as they should.
black is original white is ltemplar's
SNAG-0244.jpg


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