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#26 14/9/12 6:47

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Tap in the goggle 3d converter tool....I don't remember how it's coled now.. but this toll allow almost all files to be converted to whatever you want.
BTW. with file you want to be converted?

Last edited by ltemplar (14/9/12 6:51)

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#27 14/9/12 7:00

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

when i was first making hayate .. i found this image on google :
8304617a5c50b46a9453e3051cb04a58.image.272x300.jpg
and i said i'll try 1 day to make her cz it will go well with hayate's white outfit.
today i found this : the exact outfit i wanted : http://thefree3dmodels.com/stuff/charac … 4-1-0-1583 so i was very happy
however it comes in 2 format max and obj .. the object 1 : the entire model is 1 object and hard to separate and rig for me .. i'm hoping the max one is separate parts .. cz several other models had the max as separate parts.


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#28 14/9/12 7:14

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

i don't think , that max have separated parts of here. Firs look into texture? Is this a single texture or multi...If multi this could be like this:
-clothes have different texture
-body have different texture..

Then you will need allot more work than simple cutting and matching..You will need take wanted UWV maps from the clothes.. cut them and match with the body texture to form a bone (chest for example) used by ONI.

BTW. I already answered on your question in XSI tips topic.Take a look.

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#29 14/9/12 8:19

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

It's 1 texture ..
However u don't need to cut the uv maps .. Only the body parts, the uv maps can stay where they are and then all objects will use that 1 texture ..
maybe 1 day i'll try to rig it cz i quite like this model ... But not soon. Thx for ur answer


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#30 14/9/12 8:44

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

I mean, if you have more than one texture..not single.If single , then there is no problem witch doing this. For multiple, from the other hand uvw maps can start getting one on to the another(you only have this small box to fit them all.. and when you match them, they can start overlapping on themselves)
In this example you don't have this problem(only to fill cut off part , and then create UVW maps for them(if you have place to put this in the uvw editor off course, if not then this will need more working time .) thats all.
Rig? You think about skinning, adding bones and helpers?Thats a lot of work...and oni can handle skinned chars if I'm correct.

Last edited by ltemplar (14/9/12 8:54)

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#31 14/9/12 12:19

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Ouh yes u're right, it's harder if multiple textures, for example the new hanako face and hair .. The face and hair each had different image .. And the images were different aspect ratios, the face 512x256 and the hair 256x256 .. I thought great i could make a 512x512 image and fit both in it .. Problem became that the uv map would change aspect ratio .. So when i loaded a 512x512 the uv map of the face became stretched all over the image instead of remaining 512x256 .. And i didn't know how to scale the uv maps horizontally to make both hair and face fit. Now i know after u replied to my question tongue

another question :
if u have an object without uv maps ..
How do u add uv maps to it urself.  i had an object file once that i wanted to merge into an oni character's dae ... The object file didn't have uv maps .. I tried to add them myself but the resulting file was not functional ..
if u have time take a look here :
http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … d=1229&p=3  post number 75 then post 83 .. So question is what steps do u use to add uv maps ..

And by rig i only meant import the model, split it into 19 parts and correct the rotations and overlapping joints to match oni .. Maybe that's not called rig.

btw to stay on topic, what are u gonna work on next ? Texture the hammer or try to texture that robot ?

btw how long have u been working with xsi and is there a place u recommend that gave u the info u know or did that come with experience. Cz i have been using it for 3 years now for oni, and it seems there's a lot i don't know abt it yet.
(the symmetrize polygons and uv scaling u taught me for example)

Last edited by Samer (14/9/12 12:27)


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#32 14/9/12 12:59

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

XSI?-a month? something like that. I seed before i use completely different program to create models(blender). But I also mentioned that all 3d programs like, max , blender, maya, XSI etc.. have exactly the same options, simply differently called(to overpass copyright issue ). If you have the soul of experimenter, then founding the right function is only a meter of time. look on the teaching tutorials around the net - how create a human body..some are in max some are in blender..etc..All work exactly the same.. Create a reference plan, create a box, then extrude split, scale rotate..Then cut , connect/subdivide...merge vertex etc..add symmetry(mirror, max Xform, etc).add modifier.. then select polygons , add modifier UVW map or other..open it select how it should be placed/projected(cube , box, spheroidal), repeat the process..I recommend you use blender , because it have (not so great like in zbrush for example) sculpting , then used in projecting/banking high poly object on the low poly object, but even have its own game engine (with it's collection of scripts written in python) for creating simple games or more complicate. And is free. Think about it.(wow what a wall of text... smile)
BTW. I working witch 3d programs for 12 years now so i know what I'm talking about...Maybe, that's your question?

Last edited by ltemplar (14/9/12 13:26)

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#33 14/9/12 14:46

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Final update on Hammer model.
added spikes on shoulder armor  increase horn size by 25%, added arm protectors

Model 2700 tri.-100%
optimized
cut into 19 bones
UVW map- no
Textures- no

hammerfinemodel1.jpg

I'm going to first finish this hammer .. then I will start texturing  MA-X9 series.

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#34 14/9/12 15:21

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Awesome big_smile i'm so excited about this big_smile smile thanks a lot ^_^ ! Looking forward for the other bgi later.
Btw when i asked abt metallic effect before .. I meant the details that make the texture more realistic and less bland .. For example making the effect of fabric or metal by editing the image, for example when u first posted FG-X they were only grey and red solid colors, later the grey became more detailed and it looked like it is made of something not just painted grey, is that just shading ?

i was told that it needs many layering and brushes in photoshop to have that effect .. I don't know how to do that, i know how to apply a ready made pattern using texturizer and adding dodge and burn for shades, but don't know how to make my own patterns and those details that make the texture more professional ..


And abt blender i'd love to, problem is I live in a country where electric power is on for only 6 hrs/day .. 2 hrs on then 4-6 hrs off, so i'm not getting enough time to learn new stuff barely having enough time to boot my computer and mod the stuff i'm used  to sad ..
so a mod that would normally take me a few consecutive hrs is taking me days .. ( i log to the forum from my mobile phone)
But hope to one day.

wow 12 years yikes it definetly shows smile, how old are u if i may ask ? I'm 23, and only got introduced to 3d modeling and xsi ( and any type of game modding) when i first joined this forum in 2009.


edit : when u texture the hammer, make him look like the sketch u posted, but white instead of green, don't make him identical to typhoon's look .. But still somewhat similar .. For example don't also put 2 circles on the chest... Anyway i know u'll make it look good smile btw i'd like to texture the eyes on the one without goggles and the mouth on the one without mouth mask.

Last edited by Samer (14/9/12 15:33)


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#35 14/9/12 15:48

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Ohh.. that what you men...
If you using photo..then you need a lot of layers to do stuff like that...but is relatively simple.
I give you exercise..or tip(cal it like you want)

First you need guide lines from UVW editor. Create firs layer from color with you want..Then use magic tool and then select the part you want to texture...copy it as the layer(you should have three layers: base(with uvw map coordinates), main with color and the third with that lite part(remember to select on the guide, but copy from the min layer)Now. Make then main layer invisible.. set visibility of the third layer to 70%(or as much you want to see the guide lines)Add drop shadow(setting distance to zero) Now start dodging end burning witch tool set on on hire number(32), the same dodge tool... when finish you see that it's looking rough.We need to correct this..select thus layer and add smart blur modifier(play witch the labels there to get effect when the piece will become enough smoothed). Then create another layer add to it outer glow(set it color to white), take the brush toll(5) and then start drawing lines on the part (taping shift will create straight lines).. Now you set invisibility of fourth layer on 80%. You should noticed that  when you draw the line the glow is added automatically.

For creating wrinkles on material i use exactly the same method.If yo want a realistic texture.. then you should start playing witch bevel and emboss and adding resource textures for metal, materials, etc...But lets discus about this another time.

EDIT. No problem I will create for 3 variants base head texture(helmet , gas mask, visors included).. and then live you to texture the face.

"And abt blender i'd love to, problem is I live in a country where electric power is on for only 6 hrs/day .. 2 hrs on then 4-6 hrs off, so i'm not getting enough time to learn new stuff barely having enough time to boot my computer and mod the stuff i'm used  to  .."

Oww that sucks..my condolences.

And normally I'm in the work and have time to mod stuff only in late afternoon...till go sleep.

Last edited by ltemplar (14/9/12 16:13)

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#36 15/9/12 6:43

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

ltemplar wrote:

First you need guide lines from UVW editor... enough smoothed

till here i knew these steps, actually i wrote same ones before in my tutorial here http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … hp?id=2423 second post under title photoshop under third method. It's good to know i was using the correct techniques on my own tongue

Then create another layer add to it outer glow(set it color to white), take the brush toll(5) and then start drawing lines on the part (taping shift will create straight lines).. Now you set invisibility of fourth layer on 80%. You should noticed that  when you draw the line the glow is added automatically.

this is new .. I have used drop shadow, bevel and emboss before .. For example for the lion on casey's jacket .. And dragon on hayate's new armor .. But didn't think of using the glow blending option tried it once before but it didn't seem useful .. I'll try that ..
for the resource texture .. I usually just use it at the end using the filter gallery-> texturizer, i guess there's a better way.

Last edited by Samer (15/9/12 6:44)


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#37 15/9/12 7:12

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

"for the resource texture .. I usually just use it at the end using the filter gallery-> texturizer, i guess there's a better way."

Better way is simply copy the layer, and then add texture(by hand copied from another picture, or by texturizer) to it because this live you the option to play witch layer(how it will be added). for the rely complicated parts(images etc), You can use high resolution renders of thous parts, and then copy them into the texture. The most complicated part on how to texture(but also today's standard) is projecting high poly model into low poly. this will create normal maps(the geometry will be added from the reference high poly model to the texture) The normal maps include things like , light, shadow , highlights, etc for the textured model...and creating the illusion that it' not a flat texture but 3d(look at today's games..you will see the difference).

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#38 15/9/12 10:55

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

While i still finishing UVW maping for HAMMER char...as a lite jump of i start playing a bit with konoko Apartment area.

konokoapartment1a.jpg
konokoapartment1b.jpg

I still need to fill with object the bathroom, and the closed room called: armory/gym room..

I also need to create 6(not all because the game will not be able to handle this) different apartments(for here to explore) in the entire building
In one of thous room she will met a boss..

Tell my what you think..or maybe you have some suggestions?

The furnitures are the simplest I can produce (to not kill the engine

I also have some questions:

How big one area can be?
How many polygons the area can have?
How many polygons the object can have
How many object the area can have
How many movable object area can have
Etc.

Last edited by ltemplar (15/9/12 11:04)

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#39 15/9/12 11:49

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

OMG looks great big_smile big_smile ! .. u're really fast ! can't wait to go wander in there ^_^

edt had this tutorial on level modding http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … hp?id=2087 don't know if it has the info u want, only few of us have worked with new levels.


edit : just an idea tongue can we hang a picture frame of her on the wall there tongue ? like this one http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … d=1885&p=3 see post 58 (maybe just her parents) or this : http://oni.bungie.org/community/forum/v … d=1885&p=5 post 108

btw do u have 1 the bosses in mind ? or do u mean sarai ?

jubei and akane the bgi twin assassins may be fitting if u want smile

Last edited by Samer (15/9/12 12:06)


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#40 15/9/12 12:18

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

The apartment level will be before she know about herself or her parents ..putting there picture with them as family will be rather not in the place. the second one ....hmm.. maybe.

I will leave the room for the improvements..for putting for example some  ester eggs(small model of Konoko from the intro in TCTF armor maybe)
But i will try to hold the polygon cunt as low as possible.

Now regarding building thing(where Konoko is living)How many floors it should have(now it have 8 +1 for basement and 1 for the roof)

Is this enough or make it higher(and Konoko will be on floor 6 ). Add the elevator to the building(now it's without it)?

Any suggestions for what to add to the special room mentioned in post above?

I mean Sarai..in the scout armor. twins will be for the second part the "The abandoned Warehouse", or BGI tower the first encounter.

Last edited by ltemplar (15/9/12 12:22)

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#41 15/9/12 12:37

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

mm is she going to explore all floors or just the upper ones ? .. why need so many floors below it .. maybe make her apartment floor 4 so there are 4 floors up


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#42 15/9/12 13:16

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

I don't seed that all the rooms possible to explore will be on the upper floors. For some you will need a key to open them, or blow the wall by sbg(hehe).Even getting out from your apartment will be in some way tricky.

the enemys will be
BGI agents
BGI tropers
BGI robots
SARAI-bgi boss

At the beginning she will be rather unprepared for combat , and she will need some diversion to take them off theirs positions .(fighting 8 armament foes(one with sbg) will be rather a bad idea).

The level will start like this..
She is taking shower..
The camera change and showing peoples moving to the building(from low from the truck , and from the helicopter above)
She ending taking shower
The Strange black suited guys are near her apartment entrance
Camera is showing now her in her sleeping outfit moving from the bathroom
The peoples in black do a electrical shock on the entrance lock and doors are opening...
Konoko spot the intruders .split only "What the..." then one of the agents shot the sbg..
She in slow mo jump back in the last second to bathroom ..explosion is huge smashing her on to the wall..and making the uper celling to fall  onto her. When she wake up(5 sec) she spot that the exit is blocked by huge part of the celling , and hear the voices coming from the apartment.her only option to get out is that small window in the bathroom...
Now it's up to player to decide where to go(fighting with agents, or found another way.
The other way is to make a diversion....
To be continued..

What you'd think?

Last edited by ltemplar (15/9/12 13:22)

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#43 15/9/12 13:32

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Nice Concept .. But how on earth are u gonna make that cutscene tongue that will require many animations and scripting ! tongue and what will she be wearing in the shower scene tongue


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#44 15/9/12 13:53

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

"and what will she be wearing in the shower scene"
Well.... I can make a proper shower scene, but then the mod will be rated 18+...So the Konoko in the shower scene will be a shadow beyond the cabin glass..only showing the animation nothing more.

how to make the scene?

Move to flag for chars for storming scene.
Its sound complicated, but in reality isn't.
Only properly position camera , start ,end animation.

Worser will be to create other things like found the key.. unable to holster(or take power ups) till she get some clothes on(she wear only sleeping outfit) , triggering the diversion script., etc.

Last edited by ltemplar (15/9/12 13:55)

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#45 15/9/12 15:12

EdT
Moderator

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

How big one area can be? 
The China level from north to south is the longest a level can be in Oni.  In terms of Oni world coordinates, 4000 is about the limit.

How many polygons the area can have?
  My experience, 80,000 is the limit.

How many polygons the object can have
  A single object 1024 to be safe.

How many object the area can have
I don't know, but TCTF2 has over 300 furniture items

How many movable object area can have
I don't know, however, movable objects have issues with collision.  The Oni engine does not handle any collision with the top of the object.  So if you made a crate movable, you could not jump on it, you will fall through to the ground.

Environment model cannot use n-gons.

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#46 15/9/12 16:19

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Thanks EdT for the info

As I seed I'm going to  create two areas in one level. One with will be the apartment+building. Another which will be the abandoned warehouse with underground shortage area .

A lite update.

The shower scene-not to get cooky there will be only moving shadow there(no close ups tongue), or this will be rated 18+ mod...
konokoshowerscene.jpg
the look on the batroom area
bathroomarea.jpg
look into hidden/armory area
hidenroomarea.jpg
bedroom
slipingroomarea.jpg
kitchen
kitchenareab.jpg
terning room - still empty(maybe I will add training bot to it)
fightingroomarea.jpg
entrence
entrencearea.jpg

Tell me what you think , and what to add to improve them?

Another questions

-How high the buildings can be?
-And 80k with : ghost quads, helpers, furnitures, or empty level?

I also finished stairway..and thinking about adding elevator..but only for proper number of floors in the building.

And EdT. movable furnitures will be only to show hidden bypass like ventilation grate,etc (not to jump on them)..For example moving the fridge will show hidden under it ammo clip(or something like that)..

Don't worry no N-gons. Only good old triangles..

Last edited by ltemplar (15/9/12 16:40)

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#47 15/9/12 16:51

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Cool smile
btw for the shower scene in the game there's an animation where konoko takes off her clothes, maybe u can use that .. How will u make the shadow appear ? If the glass is transparent ? Can we make the texture only transparent to show shadow ? .. An idea : make a konoko model without textures, it will show all black as if it's a shadow, then u change character class later.

the trianing room a bot would be nice, maybe she can operate it and make it fight them and create the diversion tongue
u can also add a hanging punching bag .. Some monkey bars, dumbells lying on the floor ..

i like the movable fridge ammo idea.

does she have a tv btw tongue ? And i'd add some picture frames just to make it more homy .. Maybe just a screenshot of her in her copoutfit tongue

i think it will look really amazing when the textures are added big_smile maybe have some rugs in there on the floor.

Abt the elevator i don't think functional elevators can be made yet .. And maybe they disabled it so she can't escape tongue

and i think 80 k with everything.

p.s : i wish u were getting more feedback from other members hmm if this in not getting comments i don't know what will.
To others : It's the bgi level guys ! You know that thing we wished we would have for years and finally someone is actively working on it.

Last edited by Samer (15/9/12 17:05)


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#48 15/9/12 17:19

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

There is plenty methods to create "elevator".. like for example teleporting char(after some time) to the same looking elevator(no one will even notice this) .Moving is a question of how not if.

Yes, black textured Konoko(this is what i show on the picture(create illusion of shadow..adding prt. with steam(dream level) can even increase the effect)

-Still you need bypass the agents in the apartment to activate android from hidden room.
-Diversion must be in another apartment(empty or with death occupants - killed by BGI).
-But activating the android could be niece addition to this level.good thinking .
-I seed there will be pictures+ester eggs.

Edit1
BTW. Samer..I will send you (when finish) UVW mapped the Hammer, with simple texture. You then will make thous centers and create the rest of him (to increase the speed of making process). Then when I finish the textures,  I wlll sent them to you..After all this is your character not my ..I'm only making the model and textures.I will also create some moves for him(based on elite skeleton) but exporting them to the game will be up to you. Agree?

Last edited by ltemplar (15/9/12 17:30)

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#49 15/9/12 17:24

Samer
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

Another suggestion .. When she's first knocked down, have her lose a lot of her health .. So as a first step she has to get some hypos hidden, before she can confront them.
+ i thought the android would be in the trainig room ? Or u want the bot to be in training room but it's console in hidden room ?
i guess u can have him as a character on same team konoko ignoring everything, then add a trigger volume when she does something to activate it. (remove ignore bsl command).

ouh and add some plant pots big_smile and bell button on the enterance.

Last edited by Samer (15/9/12 17:30)


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#50 15/9/12 17:39

ltemplar
Member

Re: BGI Characters and Levels Discussion

"ouh and add some plant pots  and bell button on the enterance."
Give me a break will ya?No just kidding.

The bot will be in the training room , but to get there you must firt pass paroling agents(look at the scheme..to the hidden room you can enter by bedroom..with can be entered by balcony.There you can do a lot much(Konoko will show that she not only have muscles but also a brain activating android is only one of the options . Hidden hacking potential(turning some BGI robots against theirs owners will be something hehe)
The t.v. is in the bedroom btw.

Low health...that's why i wrote that she isn't prepared for confrontation.

Last edited by ltemplar (15/9/12 17:56)

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